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Been thinking about abduction theory

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Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by Skibunny on 16.10.13 19:35

I have been sort of mesmerized by this case since the beginning. I have two children, and I have spend many a night in a hotel alone with them while my husband and others were nearby at restaurants, bars etc. Usually we vacationed to Florida when the kids were small.  I can remember being almost ridiculed for staying in. "Your paranoid !", "Its completely safe here!" and "Alright, suit yourself, we are going out anyway" were some of the responses that I remember. One mother we knew did this checking thing, about every half hour too. This was before the Madeline abduction, but she insisted this was fine. I would keep my kids up fairly late at the restaurant, then the three of us would go back to the room for the night.  She did the Kate thing, and put them to bed really early.  I think this is some parenting thing passed through families, because my own parents certainly never left me alone, ever. 

It makes me wonder if Kate or Gerry got coerced into going to the Tapas bar, when they knew they should have stayed in their apartment. They are adults, and should have made the correct decision despite any pressure. It might explain why they don't really talk about the "why" they left the children alone. I do feel sorry for them though.

Anyway I have a couple of things to add to the theories I have seen posted here.  Forgive me if they are not new, but I have not seen them specifically. I have seen quite often other posters don't think an abductor would have made a plan to be walking down the street carrying the child. This is my theory:

1. What if the abduction plan was to enter the apartment from the front door (not the sliding patio door) with a duplicate key or somehow, open the shutters and the window, and pass the child or children out the window to an accomplice. Then into a waiting car.

2. The accomplice did not show up at the correct time to help at the window, and also to drive a getaway car. Possibly he fell asleep in the car waiting for a text somewhere. Car wouldn't start, broke down, ran out of gas, passed out from drugs, endless reasons. But the person in the apartment opens window and shutters, looks out and his buddy is not there.

3. Guy in the apartment can't wait and has to make a fast decision, so instead of aborting the mission, he panics and grabs her, leaves the apartment and starts to walk. Maybe he was walking to where the getaway car was supposed to be waiting for his text. Finds the car, puts Maddy in, and they drive off and continue with their plan. I am assuming these men are not all that smart, maybe they failed a couple of times before at an abduction and were getting desperate to complete one.

Where they took her from here is anyones guess. I do agree that loyalties change over the years, and hopefully someone will squeal.

Would love to hear comments.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by boo boos on 16.10.13 19:59

You sound like a loving mother who puts her children first - how it should be - and I respect you for that. Unfortunately there is a lot to this case which proves that Kate is anything but. As to your theory, there is NO evidence for an abduction. Add to that Maddie's bed had not been slept in and there was no dna on the bed or ANYWHERE in the flat. No abductor would have time to change the bedding and do a forensic clean up. Also the dogs signalled a dead body had been in 5a which could not be attributed to any previous occupant. Welcome to the forum, it will open your eyes the more you read
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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by galena on 16.10.13 20:43

@Skibunny wrote:I have been sort of mesmerized by this case since the beginning. I have two children, and I have spend many a night in a hotel alone with them while my husband and others were nearby at restaurants, bars etc. Usually we vacationed to Florida when the kids were small.  I can remember being almost ridiculed for staying in. "Your paranoid !", "Its completely safe here!" and "Alright, suit yourself, we are going out anyway" were some of the responses that I remember. One mother we knew did this checking thing, about every half hour too. This was before the Madeline abduction, but she insisted this was fine. I would keep my kids up fairly late at the restaurant, then the three of us would go back to the room for the night.  She did the Kate thing, and put them to bed really early.  I think this is some parenting thing passed through families, because my own parents certainly never left me alone, ever. 

It makes me wonder if Kate or Gerry got coerced into going to the Tapas bar, when they knew they should have stayed in their apartment. They are adults, and should have made the correct decision despite any pressure. It might explain why they don't really talk about the "why" they left the children alone. I do feel sorry for them though.

Anyway I have a couple of things to add to the theories I have seen posted here.  Forgive me if they are not new, but I have not seen them specifically. I have seen quite often other posters don't think an abductor would have made a plan to be walking down the street carrying the child. This is my theory:

1. What if the abduction plan was to enter the apartment from the front door (not the sliding patio door) with a duplicate key or somehow, open the shutters and the window, and pass the child or children out the window to an accomplice. Then into a waiting car.

2. The accomplice did not show up at the correct time to help at the window, and also to drive a getaway car. Possibly he fell asleep in the car waiting for a text somewhere. Car wouldn't start, broke down, ran out of gas, passed out from drugs, endless reasons. But the person in the apartment opens window and shutters, looks out and his buddy is not there.

3. Guy in the apartment can't wait and has to make a fast decision, so instead of aborting the mission, he panics and grabs her, leaves the apartment and starts to walk. Maybe he was walking to where the getaway car was supposed to be waiting for his text. Finds the car, puts Maddy in, and they drive off and continue with their plan. I am assuming these men are not all that smart, maybe they failed a couple of times before at an abduction and were getting desperate to complete one.

Where they took her from here is anyones guess. I do agree that loyalties change over the years, and hopefully someone will squeal.

Would love to hear comments.
I don't know about being 'coerced' to going to the Tapas Bar. To the best of my knowledge this was their normal routine - kids in crèche most of the day, left alone in the apartments in the evening.  So this was not a departure from routine.  I did speculate in the early days that some predator might have become aware of this behaviour and taken the chance to snatch one of the kids. But too much has happened since then for me since then that can't be explained by an abduction. We could devise hundreds of theories about how she was abducted but for me the problem remains - why would the parents and their friends lie to protect an abductor?

I do agree with the part in bold though big grin

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by Skibunny on 16.10.13 22:55

I guess I have trouble believing they covered up their own child's death, however this has been done many times before. If Scotland Yard finds an innocent explanation for the man that was seen by the Smiths, carrying a child towards the beach, then there is no shred left to support an abduction.

Also these e-fits really seem to look very generic to me for some reason. There are many, many men out there that are clean shaven with short dark hair. I think many dads in my neighbourhood look similar, and they have never been to Portugal. Hopefully the phone records will tell the tale, I don't think it was widely known in 2007 that you can be tracked by triangulation of phone tower pings. We had some convictions over here that have come from such evidence.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by corpushining on 17.10.13 0:36

There are phone records: Kate McCann deletes 14 texts from her phone the day after the disappearance according to the files.

Also, search for the Gasper Statement. That will open your eyes.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by listener on 17.10.13 0:46

@corpushining wrote:There are phone records: Kate McCann deletes 14 texts from her phone the day after the disappearance according to the files.

Also, search for the Gasper Statement. That will open your eyes.
And you do that (texting/deleting) while paranoid about your missing daughter !
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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by corpushining on 17.10.13 0:56

Do you? I doubt it. Its 2007 they are middle class parents. They dont have a nokia that only saves 10 messages.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by sonic72 on 17.10.13 1:59

I don't mean to sound rude, but you're talking tripe!

There was no abduction!

Are you working for the McCanns by any chance?

You tried to validate leaving kids on their own by offering a story about a 'friend' who did it, giving the reader the impression you were against what the McCann's did, getting people onside, and then offered a ludicrous abduction theory to try and put emphasis on their really being an abduction.

If you didn't have only 2 comments I would think you were just naive, but I can smell a shill from a mile off..


shutup 


Again, apologies to all if I seemed rude in this post..

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by bobbin on 17.10.13 7:15

@sonic72 wrote:I don't mean to sound rude, but you're talking tripe!

There was no abduction!

Are you working for the McCanns by any chance?

You tried to validate leaving kids on their own by offering a story about a 'friend' who did it, giving the reader the impression you were against what the McCann's did, getting people onside, and then offered a ludicrous abduction theory to try and put emphasis on their really being an abduction.

If you didn't have only 2 comments I would think you were just naive, but I can smell a shill from a mile off..


shutup 


Again, apologies to all if I seemed rude in this post..
Also seems to be a similar writing style with strange grammatical errors, reminiscent of another poster who was very active, out of nowhere, and has suddenly disappeared.
This site is aimed at analysing facts. This may involve developing theories, but not making fantasy theories up or excuses for the McCs behaviour.
There is an awful lot of reading to do and the McCann files and Gonçalo Amaral's book are the good places to start. Then Kate's book will show itself for what it is, real 'fantasy' land.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by galena on 17.10.13 8:22

@Skibunny wrote:I guess I have trouble believing they covered up their own child's death, however this has been done many times before. If Scotland Yard finds an innocent explanation for the man that was seen by the Smiths, carrying a child towards the beach, then there is no shred left to support an abduction.

Also these e-fits really seem to look very generic to me for some reason. There are many, many men out there that are clean shaven with short dark hair. I think many dads in my neighbourhood look similar, and they have never been to Portugal. Hopefully the phone records will tell the tale, I don't think it was widely known in 2007 that you can be tracked by triangulation of phone tower pings. We had some convictions over here that have come from such evidence.
Well I don't think you necessarily need 'evidence' of an abduction - ie witnesses seeing child being carried off.  There are plenty of  cases where children disappear and all that anyone knows is that they have gone without a trace.  The majority of abductors don't operate in broad daylight and busy streets for obvious reasons - it most cases I would imagine the child is quickly bundled into a vehicle and driven off.

People have been discussing this case on the internet since it happened and their are lots of reasons why suspicions of the parents have grown - their behaviour since it happened has not been that of grieving parents seeking their child, more like people who have something to hide.  And of course there is the cadaver dog evidence and Kate refusing to answer the PJ's questions.

As for finding it hard to believe that they covered up their own child's death - strangely that's something I can imagine quite well. They had every motive to do it, the intelligence and resources to plan it and the media savvy to make sure that they had a positive press on their side. 

If you are genuine and not a McCann plant I suggest you read some of the older threads and have a look at the mccannfiles website.  I think you will understand why so many people are suspicious of the whole abductor story.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by russiandoll on 17.10.13 9:20

Even dismissing the strange behaviour of the couple, a close reading and analysis of the evidence shows the impossibility of their abduction claims.

 I have not heard AR state that they had fresh translations of files and found statements had errors re times or any other significant details.

 So things are as they stand in the files we have access to.

 The translation issue is the only one where you can argue the story can be changed imo.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by plebgate on 17.10.13 9:26

@russiandoll wrote:Even dismissing the strange behaviour of the couple, a close reading and analysis of the evidence shows the impossibility of their abduction claims.

 I have not heard AR state that they had fresh translations of files and found statements had errors re times or any other significant details.

 So things are as they stand in the files we have access to.

 The translation issue is the only one where you can argue the story can be changed imo.
If there had been translation errors imo we would have heard about them when they went to court to imprison a pensioner (Tony B).

How on earth could anybody go before a UK judge and not give that information?

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by tigger on 17.10.13 11:38

From the first post:
  The accomplice did not show up at the correct time to help at the window, and also to drive a getaway car. Possibly he fell asleep in the car waiting for a text somewhere
unquote    spit coffee  

That would have been Clarrie then, well known for falling asleep at crucial times -

McCanns persuaded against their better judgement to leave children alone five nights in a row?  Please!!!

Persuaded:
Against their better judgement to make the 'abduction'  known worldwide? Even though the PJ told them it would be tantamount to signing a death sentence for the child?
Against their better judgement to start a Ltd. Co. within two weeks?
Against their better judgement to make the name a trademark?
Against their better judgement when there was a very detailed sighting and even DNA analysis of a girl seen in Belgium, to take a plane to Berlin?

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by plebgate on 17.10.13 11:41

I would like to know who persuaded them to leave their children alone.

Mr. is on video saying it was a collective decision.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by galena on 17.10.13 12:11

@tigger wrote:From the first post:
  The accomplice did not show up at the correct time to help at the window, and also to drive a getaway car. Possibly he fell asleep in the car waiting for a text somewhere
unquote:spit coffee: 

That would have been Clarrie then, well known for falling asleep at crucial times -

McCanns persuaded against their better judgement to leave children alone five nights in a row?  Please!!!

Persuaded:
Against their better judgement to make the 'abduction'  known worldwide? Even though the PJ told them it would be tantamount to signing a death sentence for the child?
Against their better judgement to start a Ltd. Co. within two weeks?
Against their better judgement to make the name a trademark?
Against their better judgement when there was a very detailed sighting and even DNA analysis of a girl seen in Belgium, to take a plane to Berlin?
I don't have much faith in the ability of these two theoretical abductors to even get Madeleine out of the apartment let alone spirit her away for 6 years. They sound more like Laurel and Hardy than master criminals and surely even M3 could have managed to catch them laughat

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by suzyjohnson on 17.10.13 23:14

Skibunny, if the abductor (s) decided to go in via the front door and they were able to do so, it is very unlikely they would decide to use the window instead of the front door to depart.

Also, it is very unlikely that anyone would park a getaway vehicle a five minute walk away from the apartment and near to the beach. Anyone intending to use a car would park it as near as possible to a main road out of PdL.

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by Okeydokey on 18.10.13 1:52

@Skibunny wrote:I guess I have trouble believing they covered up their own child's death, however this has been done many times before. If Scotland Yard finds an innocent explanation for the man that was seen by the Smiths, carrying a child towards the beach, then there is no shred left to support an abduction.

Also these e-fits really seem to look very generic to me for some reason. There are many, many men out there that are clean shaven with short dark hair. I think many dads in my neighbourhood look similar, and they have never been to Portugal. Hopefully the phone records will tell the tale, I don't think it was widely known in 2007 that you can be tracked by triangulation of phone tower pings. We had some convictions over here that have come from such evidence.
Freudian slip there I think. Didn't you mean to write "however many times this has been done before".  But instead you wrote "however this has been done many times before" - which is true (and so shouldn't be an impediment of the sort you wish to set up) .

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by whmon on 18.10.13 2:08

Ermm, don't quite understand why the first version of the statement was questioned. Am I missing something? Hmmm?

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by whmon on 18.10.13 2:13

Apologies - as an ex English teacher who has had a drink this evening I was looking at the statement purely on grammatical grounds. I understand my mistake now. I will take more note of content. 3/4

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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by ultimaThule on 18.10.13 4:26

@plebgate wrote:I would like to know who persuaded them to leave their children alone.

Mr. is on video saying it was a collective decision.
I wonder how this 'collective decision' come to be made.  Did one of the group say 'let's leave the kids alone at night and eat at the Tapas, drink at Chaplins etc' and the rest of them said 'that's a good idea, let's do it' or did the same idea pop into 9 minds at precisely the same moment and all of them simultaneously said 'let's leave the kids alone etc'?
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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by columbostogeys on 18.10.13 16:38

@Skibunny wrote:I guess I have trouble believing they covered up their own child's death, however this has been done many times before. If Scotland Yard finds an innocent explanation for the man that was seen by the Smiths, carrying a child towards the beach, then there is no shred left to support an abduction.

Also these e-fits really seem to look very generic to me for some reason. There are many, many men out there that are clean shaven with short dark hair. I think many dads in my neighbourhood look similar, and they have never been to Portugal. Hopefully the phone records will tell the tale, I don't think it was widely known in 2007 that you can be tracked by triangulation of phone tower pings. We had some convictions over here that have come from such evidence.


LOL funny enough i was watching a programme last night and the actor looked just like the Efit no really, it crossed my mind how generic that photo is. He really looks like Gerry, then he really looks like hundreds of other men too lol.
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Re: Been thinking about abduction theory

Post by columbostogeys on 18.10.13 16:40

@plebgate wrote:I would like to know who persuaded them to leave their children alone.

Mr. is on video saying it was a collective decision.

Actually they all had been in Portugal before I believe and on one of their holidays they decided collectively to do a listening service rather then pay for  babysitting. Its out there I know i read it, and it was a direct quote from one of them cant remember who now though.
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