Re: Why are the Paynes/Webster airbrushed out?

by MaybeMaybenot 23.06.14 15:44

fossey wrote:
MaybeMaybenot wrote:
fossey wrote:
MaybeMaybenot wrote:Could Payne actually be an undercover agent of some kind...infiltrating something in pdl
I think you have been watching too many James Bond movies....
Maybe
Maybe not

Someone's being looked after
That is true.

Although I don't think DP has turned into a secret undercover agent for MI5 and sipping shaken but not stirred Martini's.

Did I mention mi5

by fossey 23.06.14 15:53

MaybeMaybenot wrote:
fossey wrote:
MaybeMaybenot wrote:
fossey wrote:
MaybeMaybenot wrote:Could Payne actually be an undercover agent of some kind...infiltrating something in pdl
I think you have been watching too many James Bond movies....
Maybe
Maybe not

Someone's being looked after
That is true.

Although I don't think DP has turned into a secret undercover agent for MI5 and sipping shaken but not stirred Martini's.
Did I mention mi5

Maybemaybenot.....

Don't want to have an argument with you. My responses were in jest.

There is a very good possibility that DP has 'turned' and has spoken in confidence about what he knows to OG.

As other posters have commented on, there must be a 'reason' why he has been completely omitted from the crimewatch programme etc.

The only logical one I can think of is that he is assisting OG with enquiries behind the scenes.

It was the way you said 'could DP be an undercover agent of some kind' that I thought was amusing - hence the James Bond reference.

Apologies.

by MaybeMaybenot 23.06.14 16:04

No probs....sorry also
I was more thinking about him being an agent from day one, possibly involving padophillic areas. The woman who recognised him in the room, can't think of her name now.
Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way, but its a good possibility or maybe not

by **tigger** 23.06.14 20:02

If DP had been an agent of sorts there would have been no need to change his statements. Working with the many indications we have doesn't show up anything like secret service of any kind. In fact they've just set up a medical Ltd.co. Both are still doctors.

I do feel Fossey picked up onthe significance of the various posts here and it gives me hope there will eventually be a case to answer. DP seems to have worked out very early how to protect his own interests.
Most of alll I'm interested in his remark in the rog about it not being the 'right forum'.

by **tigger** 23.06.14 20:27

worriedmum wrote:Interesting thread;

I think David Payne has a strange way of expressing things-

''all hell‟s broken loose and you know to see whether you can do anything to help Madeleine come back,''

and Gerry's blog of 7th July 2207 seems to imply that he thinks his friends are helping the police sort out misapprehensions that the police have picked up from the media,
''
The Portuguese police interviewed three of our friends again today, to clarify points in their initial statements. As most of you will know, there is a lot of misleading information being published, both in the press and on the internet, about the events leading up to Madeleine's disappearance and the criminal investigation.''

He does that sort of thing all the time. When asked in the Expresso i terview about those 14 voicemails, he says he did have hundreds of calls on the day after the 3rd. Same technique, add irrelevant 'fact' right after the bit of dangerous info.
Try and link them so that they become one:
Friends' statement - wrong press information
14 calls on 3rd. -100s calls on fourth. .... winkwink

by Justformaddie 24.06.14 22:27

Maybe dp seen what happened during his check on km and the children, and hopefully has come clean IMO

by missbeetle 24.06.14 23:04

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(snipped from Kikoratton on Twitter)

David Payne's sister Karen is married to the athletic fellow on the right, Simon Green :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"
The Great Knibworth Run, 27 September 2009

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by missbeetle 25.06.14 2:23

Err you know I made err a phone call at some stage in the evening to err Fiona’s dad back in the UK who I’ve got a lot of respect for and has given me very, a lot of very good advice because you know you certainly would never have believe that you will find yourself in a situation err like this and you know there was very able people who were there, you know. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From 192 records, there are two Dianne Websters in the Bedfordshire region.

One (aged 60-64) is at the same address (Dunstable, LU 5) as a John W Webster.

The other at Bedford, MK 4, shares the same address with a James C Webster.

”No, err you know Kate and Gerry I think it’s, they’ve had you know the twins, it’s never difficult, err sorry it’s never easy looking after twins, err my sister’s got twins and err you know and it was very difficult for them. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this mother of twins, his sister Karen - married to Simon - Green?

Heaps of twins in this tale...

by **tigger** 25.06.14 7:21

missbeetle wrote:Err you know I made err a phone call at some stage in the evening to err Fiona’s dad back in the UK who I’ve got a lot of respect for and has given me very, a lot of very good advice because you know you certainly would never have believe that you will find yourself in a situation err like this and you know there was very able people who were there, you know. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

From 192 records, there are two Dianne Websters in the Bedfordshire region.

One (aged 60-64) is at the same address (Dunstable, LU 5) as a John W Webster.

The other at Bedford, MK 4, shares the same address with a James C Webster.

”No, err you know Kate and Gerry I think it’s, they’ve had you know the twins, it’s never difficult, err sorry it’s never easy looking after twins, err my sister’s got twins and err you know and it was very difficult for them. - See more at: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is this mother of twins, his sister Karen - married to Simon - Green?

Heaps of twins in this tale...

Thank you! Looks that my memory of Gerry phoning DP's dad was wrong as these excerpts are what I remembered except as relating to GM.

Still, why do we have to know about Fiona's dad? DW had some kind of financial references job?

Seeing the quotes above I'd hate to be diagnosed by DP,, I wouldn't know whether I had an ingrown toenail or pneumonia.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 8:53

So... a few thoughts...

I believe the lady in the Birthday Cake photograph to be Dianne Webster.

As well as anaesthetist daughter, Fiona Payne, she has ex-anaesthetist daughter Louise Oldridge (now running Wrag Wrap), and apparently another high-flying daughter who is a PhD in New Zealand.

We also have international man of urological and vascular mysteries, David Payne, born April 14th 1956, as stated by him in Rogatory Statement.

In his rogatory statement, he says he is born in 1956 :

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No David Anthony Payne born on that day in 1956.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

His mother is Diane Payne, looks like his father is/was a Tony Payne.

So I wonder am I ten years out of date, and check out D.A.P. born 14th April 1966.

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No D.A.P. born on that date in England, either.

But FreeBMD do have a David Anthony Payne born in Preston, June 1966.

Hmmm...!

by canada12 25.06.14 9:29

I have an account with ancestry.co.uk
There is a David A Payne with the following birth info:
Name: David A Payne
Mother's Maiden Surname: Turrell
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1956
Registration district: Grimsby
Inferred County: Northamptonshire, Lincolnshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 380

Would that be him?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 9:45

Hey, Canada12, thanks for that.

An ancestry.co.uk account is most useful!

If he is born in 1956, that would make him 58...

Fiona Payne, nee Webster, born in August 1972, would be 41...

Bit of a gap. Does he look 58?

The photocopied PJ piece dated 4th May 2007 has him born in Preston.

What a peculiar fellow...!

by fossey 25.06.14 9:49

I always thought that DP looked a bit older than 41 at the time of M's disappearance judging by the pictures.

So he actually confirms that from his statement, he was in fact born on the 14/04/56 which would of made him 51 at the time of M's disappearance.

So 58 now.

Bloody hell this is weird.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 9:59

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I would say this is a man in his 40s, rather than in his 50s.

by canada12 25.06.14 10:12

missbeetle wrote:Hey, Canada12, thanks for that.

An ancestry.co.uk account is most useful!

If he is born in 1956, that would make him 58...

Fiona Payne, nee Webster, born in August 1972, would be 41...

Bit of a gap. Does he look 58?

The photocopied PJ piece dated 4th May 2007 has him born in Preston.

What a peculiar fellow...!

Interesting! Yes, you may be right.

Is it possible there's a transcription /translation error in the PJ report regarding birthyear? Or is it possible David Payne was being duplicitous and gave an incorrect birth year for other reasons?

Here is a David Anthony Payne born in Preston in 1966:

Name: David Anthony Payne
Mother's Maiden Surname: Wills
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1966
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 10f
Page Number: 518

And to verify his parentage, here is what is likely his parents' marriage info:

Name: Anthony L Payne
Spouse Surname: Wills
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1960
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 1587
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Name: Diane M Wills
Spouse Surname: Payne
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1960
Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 1587
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Most interesting. As I mentioned above, 1956 or 1966. Deliberate mis-information, or transcription / translation error?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 11:05

Thank you for that, Canada12...

Ah, David Anthony Payne born in the quarter April/May/June 1966.

I'm having no luck on FreeBMD with Fiona Elaine Webster :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(snipped from her rogatory interview)

If you get a chance, would you mind having a scratch about on ancestry?

by missbeetle 25.06.14 11:12

Re. Fiona Payne, nee Webster -
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

Father would appear to be a James Cowan Webster, but I can't make out the place of birth.

by Doug D 25.06.14 16:33

Not sure where you're going with this but:

Bedford district.

Mothers maiden name Hebenton.

by missbeetle 25.06.14 20:39

Thank you for that, Doug D.

There's an interesting William Heberton over at Manchester University.

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 20:54

Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

by Guest 25.06.14 21:02

Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

by Guest 25.06.14 21:19

Ladyinred wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

Unless the child silently choked.

Or a stealthy abductor took the child.

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 21:36

Ladyinred wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Did the paynes and d Webster leave the dinner table that night for checks? Could that be the reason why they were edited out?

The Paynes had a baby monitor:

1485 ”What’s the circumstances regarding your listening arrangements?”
Reply ”Err we, yeah, had err got a digital monitor which you know we obviously we used back, back home. Err yeah it was very good, it was very foolproof, we were very happy with the monitor.

Yeah, I bet they were very happy with the monitor, it saved them from getting caught up in the disaster on the 3rd of May 07 and crimewatch! All IMO dance

by Guest 25.06.14 21:42

Not quite, IMO. After all, DP was the last of the group to see MBM alive on 3rd May. Remember his 30 second/30 minute visit to 5A when Kate was wrapped in a towel and the three children dressed in white?

by Justformaddie 25.06.14 22:56

Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? huh

Just guessing.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:46

Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:52

I'm becoming more and more convinced that GM was duping this gang into protecting him and wife from being charged.

Yes the TAPAS 7 probably had to lie and change their stories, particularly for the Thursday, but was it to protect themselves or their mate and fellow doctor Gm?

I dont believe that every member of the TAPAS 9 knows the full story of the disappearance of M. Only 1 or 2 of them.

by sami 26.06.14 10:54

HelenMeg wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

It is no reason to have excluded them by name though. Each party was introduced by name as they arrived at the table during the CW reconstruction. Paynes were referred to as "other friends" or some such thing. That's still odd IMO.

by HelenMeg 26.06.14 10:57

sami wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Yes', that visit is important, but with them being airbrushed out of crimewatch, could that be because they had a monitor and so they didn't need to leave the table at all, hence them not included in it? Clutching at straws, but maybe dp witnessed something during that visit and come clean? Just guessing.

I think you may be right that the reason why they weren't included was due to their monitor. They had no reason to move and check.

It was a charade, as we know, the checking business and leaving kids alone so that an abduction could be 'staged'. Interesting that DP was able to get out of it due to his monitor. There was a group of 9 people setting up stage for an 'abduction'. The people getting the short straws had to engage in this ridiculous checking routine but DP was able to say' Ive got a monitor so I'm keeping out of that..'

Why were MO / JT so willing to take part in the charade. I've got this nagging feeling that they were conned.

It is no reason to have excluded them by name though. Each party was introduced by name as they arrived at the table during the CW reconstruction. Paynes were referred to as "other friends" or some such thing. That's still odd IMO.

Yes, I hadn't realised that. It is odd.