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CRIMEWATCH ON BBC  ***Part 1 DISCUSSION**** - Page 21 Mm11

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Post by ChuckieD on 15.10.13 8:38

@Pershing36 wrote:Daybreak are following closely.  They have apparently had 300 calls and 170 emails.  

The new focus is on burglaries that increased in the area.  In one apparently the burglar peered into a cot.  Daybreak is a McCann feast this morning with old LK at the helm.
I'd love to know how they can possibly know this burglar 'peered into the cot' - was this filmed? Were the parents there watching him/her peering in, did the baby in the cot sign a sworn statement? Bloody ridiculous. 

I'm not sure what channel hubby was watching this morning, may have been Daybreak but we're an hour ahead over here and I'm not sure what time Daybreak starts, anyway the lady reporting from PDL said they'd asked for confirmation of these 'burglaries' from the Portuguese police and have not had any thus far.
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Post by MaryB on 15.10.13 8:41

The man supposedly peering into a cot was the year before.   But it's a good story.  Why bother with the fine details.
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Post by plebgate on 15.10.13 8:45

@MaryB wrote:The man supposedly peering into a cot was the year before.   But it's a good story.  Why bother with the fine details.
So a burglar a year before peered into a cot, but he didn't take any child did he?   What a load of drivel this sounds and people are sitting watching it?
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Post by russiandoll on 15.10.13 8:47

@suzyjohnson wrote:Still catching up with all the posts on the Crimewatch reconstruction but my initial thoughts are that we need to consider what the purpose of this reconstruction actually is. It isn't aimed at people who have been studying the case and who are familiar with information such as the Smith sighting; DP's supposed visit to the apartments; the libel trial etc. One step at a time. It isn't about proving the case immediately, and therefore so much of the material is irrelevant at this stage, but appealing for new witnesses who may be able to corroborate the Smith sighting.  

With this in mind, the Tanner sighting has now been formally discounted (and quite possibly the families using the night creche were already interviewed and ruled out by the PJ at the time) which has led the police to ask the public to focus on anyone they might have noticed nearer to 10 pm. Previously the McCanns had insisted, and publicised, that MM had disappeared by 9.15 pm. Because the Smith sighting has not been given prominence, in the news or on the McCann website, there could possibly be a witness who has assumed they must be mistaken because it was a 'fact' that MM had been taken earlier by the Tanner suspect

I don't know if there is accommodation in the area of the Smith sighting but it seems less likely that someone carrying a child in the direction of the beach at almost 10 pm would be someone carrying a child home to bed. Hopefully the programme will enable the police to collect more information to piece together what they have already established. The McCanns were also on the program, which is to be shown in several countries, which could enable prospective witnesses to give additional information regarding them also.
 SY have shone a spotlight on a man carrying a child upright and binned the JT sighting. I  think they also have no man taking a 2 yr old home wearing similar pjs to Maddie, walking past what would within 45 minutes become a crime scene.

 A man with an average weight 2 yr old across his arms? He would make things much better for him and the child to carry a little one upright against his body keeping himself comfortable and a child on that very cool night warm against his body.
 Did a father really drop off his child at crèche clad only in pjs? If so, would he not, if cold enough for him to need a jacket when going to pick her up, think of taking it off and covering his little one with it?

 All way too implausible for me. As Victor Meldrew said........ I DON'T BELIEVE IT!

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Post by Smokeandmirrors on 15.10.13 8:51

It is also a horrendously big leap to try and link some petty thieves to the abduction of a child. 

And why the hell did sy not ask if anyone in the area heard Madeleine crying the night before as per Mrs Fenns statement or saw the "soothing couple" particularly as Yvonne Martin in her statement said KATE stated Madeleine was taken by a couple?

Complete rubbish. 

Unless Redwood is playing a game, he and his team have completely discredited the British police.

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Post by tiny on 15.10.13 8:52

The mccanns and tapas have lied for 6 years and deadwood has given them the get go to  lie for another 6 or 26.
 Why would deadwood and the police officer who are working on this case do that when it involves a 3 year old child.
 when they have the statements from 4 may 2007 to see how the mccanns and tapas lied.
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Post by Joelle35 on 15.10.13 8:54

Jane tanner sighting was always a decoy from Smith sighting. The fact she felt the need to do so is damming IMO.
According to USA profile Pat Brown; a man did come forward ;who walked JT sighting route 15 mins later. Is he the man Redwood is referring to?
Exciting fact is Redwood said concentrating on 9.15 onwards. The McCanns have alibis before this time not after.
Again according to Pat Brown. (Look on Pat Brown and Smith sighting) no one apart from Tapas 9 can say Gerrie was at the table after 9.15 pm.
Also she says 9 independant witnesses saw Smith sighting.
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Post by russiandoll on 15.10.13 8:56

@Ashwarya wrote:Apologies if I am repeating points other people have made (running late for work so haven't got time to read all the posts since last night before I go) but having watched the ludicrous Crimewatch last night the following occurred to me:

Redwood is using McCann vocabulary all the time, speaking of keys and jigsaws and unlocking. 

Nothing on that programme was new or revelatory.  How dare Redwood imply that any of it was something his team had discovered or worked out for themselves without the PJ having got there first and checked it all out and dismissed it?  Apart from things they weren't allowed to pursue, of course, like the Smith sighting which is suddenly "on message".  Also there was no mention last night of the phone records, again something the PJ were prevented from using.

Having recently returned from PdL I don't think there was any residential accommodation that the 10.00 pm McStroller could have been heading towards where the Smith family saw him - it is mostly pubs and restaurants and then the beach and rocks.  Nor was it an obvious route from the crèche to any Ocean Club accommodation - far from it.
 Redwood said both these things:

1. ONE READING OF IT IS THAT IT HAS ALL THE HALLMARKS OF A PRE- PLANNED ABDUCTION.
 
2. THE ROUTE TAKEN BY SMITHMAN WAS NOT AN OBVIOUS EXCAPE ROUTE

 which people planning and carrying out an abduction would find pdq and although Redwood did not say so, they would also without a doubt have used a vehicle at some stage of their operation.

 I did not hear Redwood say he believes that Smithman was making his way to a vehicle.
 He did not mention an accomplice.

 But he did say the route was not likely for escape, inference for some other objective, then.

 And he said that it had all the hallmarks of a person planning to remove a child from one location to another.

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Post by sami on 15.10.13 8:59

David Payne and family have been whooshed completely, why ?  They were the most friendly with the MCanns, they at least deserved a mention by name when sitting down to dinner.
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Post by riskybuisness on 15.10.13 9:00

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:It is also a horrendously big leap to try and link some petty thieves to the abduction of a child. 

Yes - I can just picture the scene at the local pawn/ knock off shop- Well we have some rings a few credit cards and passports to sell- Oh and wait whats your rates for this small child-  no .  Never in a million years.  If she was snatched it must have been a spur of the moment thing no organised gang would have gone near such a busy apartment.

And why the hell did sy not ask if anyone in the area heard Madeleine crying the night before as per Mrs Fenns statement or saw the "soothing couple" particularly as Yvonne Martin in her statement said KATE stated Madeleine was taken by a couple?

Complete rubbish. 

Unless Redwood is playing a game, he and his team have completely discredited the British police.
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Post by Pershing36 on 15.10.13 9:07

I couldn't stomach the program. 

But what I am reading here and elsewhere is it this in a nutshell?

They have dug up the smith's sighting.  Spun it with a few charity workers and burglaries and chucked in an e-fit to go alone with man carrying a child.

Is this the major breakthrough?
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Post by TellTheTruth on 15.10.13 9:10

@riskybuisness wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:It is also a horrendously big leap to try and link some petty thieves to the abduction of a child. 

Yes - I can just picture the scene at the local pawn/ knock off shop- Well we have some rings a few credit cards and passports to sell- Oh and wait whats your rates for this small child-  no .  Never in a million years.  If she was snatched it must have been a spur of the moment thing no organised gang would have gone near such a busy apartment.

And why the hell did sy not ask if anyone in the area heard Madeleine crying the night before as per Mrs Fenns statement or saw the "soothing couple" particularly as Yvonne Martin in her statement said KATE stated Madeleine was taken by a couple?

Complete rubbish. 

Unless Redwood is playing a game, he and his team have completely discredited the British police.
Perhaps the small child had a very nice engagement ring on her finger that the the burglar took a fancy to. But the ring was stuck SO fast that the poor old burglar had to take the small child too big grin
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Post by tiny on 15.10.13 9:11

@sami wrote:David Payne and family have been whooshed completely, why ?  They were the most friendly with the MCanns, they at least deserved a mention by name when sitting down to dinner.
could be because of the gaspars statement, did this farce resemble the mccanns farce at all or have we got two versions now
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Post by Estelle on 15.10.13 9:12

@phil_burton wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:quote phil burton   " If the Mccann's have backers powerful/rich enough to prevent the whole British media from reporting the WHOLE story, then it's not a stretch to imagine that their power/influence stretches to the BBC. (Incidently, is Crimewatch produced by the BBC? Or is it produced by an independent company (a bit like Top Gear is)). "

 I take your point , but do you believe this stretches to the police and what would be the motive for such a huge and extensive cover up in your view?
I think the Police will do anything for a quiet life. Or maybe they have no solid BRITISH evidence to use against the McCanns and therefore cant say or do anything to accuse them without risking litigation...and we all know that the Mccanns have Carter Ruck behind them.

I dont know the answer to your question - there is so much evidence against the McCanns that it seems to be an open and shut case, but there's "something" standing in the way of anything happening. Nothing in this country is said publicly to imply the McCanns were involved (surprising considering how unscrupulous the British media are! (phone hacking, turning up to politicians relatives' funerals for a good photo op etc)).

I think the most likely outcome is that one day the McCanns money will run out, and thus the support they receive from lawyers, PR specialists, and then finally, the facade might crack

How true this is! IMO I have always thought that only when the McCanns have run out of money will this case be solved. 
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Post by Shrike on 15.10.13 9:21

I might be naive but I would like to think that SY are trying to get more people to come forward with independent sightings of a person wearing a particular style of trouser. As we all know, and as I am sure SY know, the beige, cotton trousers were described in all statements and Mrs Smith went on to further describe the button style (on the legs). This, to me, is a very distinctive style that I have rarely seen. We, and SY, also are fully aware that GM owned a pair of these style of trousers at the time as seen in several photos of him. It is also known that there was a pair of beige trousers seen on the bed in one of the photos taken of the apartment soon after the incident (although I'm not sure if the buttons could be seen). The person descriptions also seem to fit GM and SY know that Mr Smith was 60-80% sure it was GM he saw due to the mannerisms. When light is a little poor I believe that we tend to see those things that stand out, not the very small details of personal ID, but those relating to styles and mannerisms. The man notices his mannerisms, the woman notices the style (maybe).

As it stands, SY have one set of Smith statements, i.e. from persons independent of the T9, relating to the sighting that night, backed up further by a later statement about the mannerisms of GM when leaving the plane at East Midlands holding one of the twins. As it stands that is probably not enough to base a case on but if they if they can get other witnesses to corroborate what GM was wearing on that holiday, or even on the night, and dismiss other persons because they did not own this style of clothing then they are much further down the line. I think it important that Redwood said nothing specific about the clothing as he wants independent persons to report this from their memory. When they call in then maybe there will be a question, "do you remember anything specific about the clothing?".

I just don't get how the whole focus of SY's presentation on CW was on this 10pm sighting. What we saw with the McCanns and the other bits of the recon were just what we all expected and, of course, they would be as the McCanns were there. But the big thing is what Redwood had to say stressing the sighting, which the McCanns have been dismissing all these years because their official JT sighting made that conveniently unlikely. And we all know what has now happened to JT's account of things.

SY also have the eFITs which we understand from news this morning were held back in the McCanns' PI files -they have a likeness to GM and I doubt they would have wanted this in the public domain to back up the Smith's statements.

If SY use this sighting and dismiss any relevance to the links with GM then they are laughing in the face of all of the persons who know so much about this case including GA and the PJ. If they do, that will be the undoing of all of this because too much is known and accessible.

On a final note though, I still have that nagging thought in the back of my head. The PJ (?) defence witness at the libel trial stated in court that SY were only looking at the abduction thoery. That is worrying unless SY are throwing the Portuguese a red herring or, if indeed, the PJ and SY are working together to throw us all, and especially the McCanns, a red herring. However, I wouldn't mind a few Guinesses with the Smith family tonight and to hear what they might have to say (as long as they have not been "got at").
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Post by Lance De Boils on 15.10.13 9:23

@Who?What?Where? wrote:Sorry if you have already discussed this, or this has already been pointed out, but I don't have the time to look at every post.


On the BBC website that carries the reconstruction, look at kate speaking, starting at around 06.20, where kate is reading stories to the kid's . Around 06.36 kate say's something like:
“it was just a nice...err... moment......, really,.... ( big gulp of air, almost crying at this point, as she recalls what may have happened)...”and then gerry got back.......”


Oh dear.
I haven't finished reading the threads either. So much to read.

Yes, I noticed that and for a split second I expected her to continue, "in a foul mood and that's when it all kicked off."

Of course, she didn't. But, having just finished reading them a book on the sofa, all four of them went and sat on Madeleine's little bed and she read them another story. (Another one?)
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Post by Chimaera on 15.10.13 9:27

Okay, so now we all know where we stand.  There was no new timeline, just a tweak of the spotlight away from the long discredited Tanner sighting on to the Smith sighting later that evening. No new revelations, just the same old propaganda eschewed by the McCann’s; the same old same old yawn inducing discredited clap trap that regular observers of this mystery have heard for many years now, without one single questioning of its authenticity to silence doubters being addressed by Redwood.  If the Crime-watch reconstruction is all that he can put on the table to solve the disappearance of MBM then as a taxpayer I want my money back please.
 
While the Met’s case now looks dead in the water can we point to anything at all we didn’t know, or at least were unsure about? A close look at the stage upon which this drama is being played upon tells us quite a bit actually. That the BBC programme was an insidious attempt at white-washing the McCann’s image is one conjecture that springs to mind.  Regret expressed by the duo over leaving their children alone every single night of the holiday must have passed by unnoticed by the casual observer; in no large part as a result of the powder puff interview of the pair by our Kirsty.  Mention could also be made of the factually incorrect airing of the ‘clearing’ of the McCanns of involvement in the crime which was intimated by our being told of the lifting of their Arguidos status.  Their selfish approach to the holiday was disguised particularly well with just a passing mention of the tennis lessons, ignoring completely how quickly the children were dumped into the respective playgroups both morning and afternoon.
 
Also, we can at least say with some high degree of certainty that Redwood will never solve the case because he refuses to acknowledge the several large elephants in the room that are the inconsistencies in the testimonies of those closest to MBM’s disappearance. Anyone who puts the emphasis on pushing forward the investigation by relying on those hilarious E-Fits deserves to get nothing out of this other than ridicule. The BBC is regaling us today, via a News 24 reporter, with the blindingly obvious conclusion that ‘this case will not be solved quickly’.   Well I can agree on that at least, though personally I think they are being optimistic thinking it will ever get solved at all.  
 
Other than the Amaral libel case there is no longer anything to look forward to now the crime-watch saga has passed me by.  On that depressing note I think I’ll go back into hibernation.  Bye all until the next revelation.
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Post by Estelle on 15.10.13 9:30

@Woofer wrote:
@tiredofthebs wrote:What has always troubled me the most about this case is this:

Any experienced policeman with half a brain should spot immediately that the McCanns are somehow involved. But in the last 6 years, not a single UK policeman, in any capacity or context,  has ever even hinted that they thought they were involved. Even the retired coppers beng interviewed on shows have always exonerated the McCanns. Wasn't Gerry even given an award at a police dinner? Didn't Leicester police even fail to hand over the gaspars statements for 7 months?

The above can mean only one thing. They have all agreed to protect the McCanns. And that to me suggests Masonic involvement, amongst other things.
John Stalker, an ex Deputy Chief Constable, did.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490254/McCanns-hiding-big-secret-police-chief-claims.html
Also there has been more evidence of David Payne being a mason than any of the others.
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Post by endgame on 15.10.13 9:37

Had a quick trawl through papers in France, Italy and Spain. It is reported but almost entirely through press releases from BBC and SY. A couple have it in a prominent position but mostly it is fairly low down the list - 26th story in La Repubblica. I have found one paper in each of Italy, Spain and France allowing comments of which there are not a great deal but they are entirely negative, many of them quite blunt - "the parents killed her" - and most appalled that Madeleine was left alone whilst the parents went out.
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Post by PeterMac on 15.10.13 9:39

If you are a totally uncritical Pro
then
Madeleine NOT in bed PLUS man seen taking child away from the apartment EQUALS Abduction

But now you have
Madeleine NOT in bed. Which equals Madeleine not in bed
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Post by Guest on 15.10.13 9:52

@Me wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but even though they were on a program where Cider Andy stated the timeline had changed Gerry STILL maintained that on his 9:05 check the children's bedroom door was open wider than he left it.

I didn't imagine that did i?

So how could that have happened if the abduction was later?

Strikes me they have a problem in that their stories seem to have focused on the 9:15 sighting.
As far as I know, Gerry had never made such a remark about the door previously. It was Kate who said that on the now infamous visit at around 10 that the door was "not the same as we'd left it".

Of course, this is far from the only variation from the original story in last night's programme.
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Post by russiandoll on 15.10.13 9:53

Acc to the Mail online SY are looking at trolls posting vile things about the Mcs, which if they include as claimed the face of Kate superimposed onto a photo of Rose West and photos of the couple as Brady and Hindley....has my full backing. Disgusting behaviour.


 Redwood had a chance to appeal to the more rational people doubting abduction but he did not take it. He could have quickly said that based on the implausible window of opportunity concluded by JT sighting, he understood people not believing an abduction had happened.
 He alluded to a wider window for abduction, but did not say :

 We know there has been much speculation and theorising based on this sighting. We as police understand it but we have now dismissed that sighting was of an abductor and are working with another theory, that the abductor was seen later.
 May I remind you that there is no evidence that Maddie met with an accident which has been covered up by her parents.
 As the timeline now allows for abduction please instead of speculating and theorising based on 10 pm and not 9.15, focus your time on helping us catch this stranger who we believe was walking with Maddie down towards the beach at 10pm.

 We are left not knowing what the Met are actually doing whilst being presented with an unbelievable set of coincidences and little if nothing concrete.
  Was it GA who said that justice works in silence?

  Let us hope that this is the case and that Portugal and the UK can establish the truth of what happened to Madeleine.

  DCI Redwood..you said WE ARE FIGHTING FOR MADELEINE.

 I am glad to hear it.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy

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Post by tiny on 15.10.13 9:53

Just read on the MMF,that deadwood has found Janes abducter and ruled him out,is this true
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Post by tigger on 15.10.13 10:04

@tiny wrote:Just read on the MMF,that deadwood has found Janes abducter and ruled him out,is this true
So that's how it's played. Can't tell the world JT was lying, so she did see a man. not an abductor with Maddie, we'll just have to forget about those pyjamas and what the hell, they're M&S so pretty well every child under five could have had those on in PdL. 

No it's clear as day now, the stupid PJ never found this man who was under their noses all the time due to the many sardine and wine lunches and the language barrier, Jane saw a man who was taking his child from the evening creche, or was carrying a take-away meal wrapped in a blanket or whatever.

 Did you see that pig just overhead?Shocked

Well, from what I've heard and read TM has learned a lot from us and reacted accordingly. We've pointed out impossibilities and contradictions, they've got some new best friends now who got rid of those simply by not including them in the latest version of events.

Meanwhile, down in the cellars of CR, Kevin's had a nervous breakdown, unable to keep up with the avalanche of posts he has to read.  He's told them he needs Nev, Trev and Tracy to help again but they tell him the money's running out and it's up to him to hold back the tsunami of  unregulated publicity.

In other drawing rooms in the UK and beyond, important people are pacing to and fro, foaming at the mouth, phoning their advisors who tell them they've thrown everything at it they could find, everything down to the kitchen sink, the curtains, the happy family myth, the shutters, New Zealand wine, everybody does it, evil men with spots, evil men without spots, new men nobody's noticed for six years. The public aren't eating it - clouds are gathering on the horizon,  Wagnerian sounds off-stage, the twilight of the Gods has begun.

At this point - a desperate situation -   the armed forces usually select a 'volunteer' to commit a pointless but heroic act to inspire the troops.  Said volunteer is sure to lose his life but that's a minor consideration. The morale of the troops is all. Off you go Clarrie! big grin

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CRIMEWATCH ON BBC  ***Part 1 DISCUSSION**** - Page 21 Empty Re: CRIMEWATCH ON BBC ***Part 1 DISCUSSION****

Post by garyp on 15.10.13 10:08

Bit late to the debate sorry 

'when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?'


Personally I think they are eliminating everything else so they are left with the bare bones without the distractions. 
Shifting emphasis to the Smith sighting brings G back into the frame. 


Also they stated at the beginning they were reassesing the timeline from 8:30? Maybe I'm wrong on that I will watch it again.


SY are not going to mention all the things that could be used as evidence as this may prejudice the case, so what WASN'T said and who wasn't mentioned is really interesting.


Also by getting rid of JTs sighting leaves a bigger time frame for the cadaver odour to develop as that was one of the things that was difficult to fit in the timeline wasn't it?
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