Re: So could this TV reconstruction end the distasteful slurs about Kate and Gerry?

by tiny on 14.10.13 12:16

@jeanmonroe wrote:tiny
And she went into great DETAIL about the 'abductor' even down to his SHOES! at 9:20pm

yes ,so she cant say she was mistaken and sy cant say she was mistaken

by MrsC on 14.10.13 12:18

@nomendelta wrote:The thing is SY are putting out photofits, there's still talk of abduction but no talk of dogs...I don't know how exactly but I really do think that at the very least this new timeline is going to aid the McCanns version of events and leave their character untarnished.

There are already massive contradictions in the various statements - in fact you could write a book on the contradictions the McCanns themselves have uttered. I suspect that with breathtaking arrogance all previous statements and timelines will be swept away as if to suggest the Portuguese didn't listen and there were translation problems and that THIS is the true version of events which leave Kate and Gerry holier than thou (well apart from the thorny issue of leaving the kids unattended in the first place).

Perhaps some clever person could write just such a book? The McCann's couldn't object to it if it only includes their utterings.

by jeanmonroe on 14.10.13 12:24

PeeWit wrote:
I agree! But it will be SY who will discount her sighting, not JT. And if it is deemed irrelevant who is going to care - it was a mistake on which too much emphasis was placed! To me it is the ONLY difference in timeline AR can come up with.
_____________________________________________________

So, the ONLY 'eye witness' 'evidence' is to be deemed IRRELEVANT?

Tell that to the McCanns!

That is THEIR only 'evidence' and 'defence' that Madeleine was 'abducted'.

Because their friend JT SAW it 'happening'

Without THAT 'sighting' by JT at 9:16pm, 3rd May 2007, they have NO 'evidence' that Madeleine was 'abducted'

Anyway i'm not getting into a 'slanging' match with you so you believe what you want and i'll believe what i want.

Like i said WTF do i know?

by jeanmonroe on 14.10.13 12:36

PeeWit wrote:
I agree! But it will be SY who will discount her sighting, not JT. And if it is deemed irrelevant who is going to care - it was a mistake on which too much emphasis was placed! To me it is the ONLY difference in timeline AR can come up with.
_____________________________________________________
JANE TANNER might 'care'!

My last on this.

That would mean SY making out JT was a 'fantasist and a liar'

And we all KNOW what JT said about being 'called' THAT!

16th October 2008.
JANE: 'Well, I've not spoken because the Portuguese police told us not to talk about the case at all, and.. you know, from day one we've done everything we can to help them with the investigation. I think maybe I'm talking now because I'm being called a liar and a fantasist and all this, and I know what I saw and I think it's important that people know what I saw because I believe Madeleine was abducted.'

'JANE: I'd love to, yeah, I think.. you know, I actively want to be re-interviewed. If there is a feeling that what we're saying is wrong, you know, be interviewed.. you know, and we can clarify that it's not wrong, you know, we're not making things up, it's just what happened.'

All the above to be 'deemed' IRRELEVANT?

I don't think so!

by nomendelta on 14.10.13 12:54

@MrsC wrote:
@nomendelta wrote:The thing is SY are putting out photofits, there's still talk of abduction but no talk of dogs...I don't know how exactly but I really do think that at the very least this new timeline is going to aid the McCanns version of events and leave their character untarnished.

There are already massive contradictions in the various statements - in fact you could write a book on the contradictions the McCanns themselves have uttered. I suspect that with breathtaking arrogance all previous statements and timelines will be swept away as if to suggest the Portuguese didn't listen and there were translation problems and that THIS is the true version of events which leave Kate and Gerry holier than thou (well apart from the thorny issue of leaving the kids unattended in the first place).
Perhaps some clever person could write just such a book? The McCann's couldn't object to it if it only includes their utterings.

Given their highly litigious nature why would someone spend the time doing so? The information is out there on such resources as mccannfiles.com.

If the head of the investigation can't get a book published in Britain based on the actual police files then what hope has anyone else got?

by gbwales on 14.10.13 13:07

Any shift in the timelines not only has to invalidate statements given to police in Portugal and the UK, and Kate's book, numerous TV interviews, magazine interviews etc - but also these two bits of paper drawn up as the actual evening unfolded by those at the centre of it all....

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/timeline040507.jpg

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/timeline040507a.jpg

by jeanmonroe on 14.10.13 13:09

If, IF, SY/Met DARED to 'retrofit' timelines to suit their 'clients' they do realise, don't they, that there are mulitudes of people OUTSIDE of the UK that will INSTANTLY report a (cover up) online and TV and press abroad!

Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown etc

Not UK Madia BUT real, RESPECTED professionals.

by Cherry on 14.10.13 13:23

Not sure where to put this background info re Bridgit O'Donnell (please move if not appropriate here)

Bridgit partner of Jez Wilkins. Bridgit tv producer who has worked on crimewatch and happened to be in PDL at time Madeleine went missing.

She published a book Inspector Minahan's Last Stand which seems to be about 1880s life involving sex trafficking, grooming etc

She also worked on a BBC4 comedy drama on Salvador Dali - which starred Steven Fry - when doing some research into Dali it was mentioned about his paintings/photos involved with necrophilia and perversity.

She has also worked with a Human rights organisation operating in Amsterdam and Africa

Also worked with Vanilla Films set up by BBC crimewatch directors/producers

http://www.george-orwell.org/Benefit_of_Clergy:_Some_Notes_on_Salvador_Dali/0.html

http://bridget-odonnell.com/producer-and-director/

http://bridget-odonnell.com/minahan/

I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

by Woofer on 14.10.13 13:35

@ Cherry re: BO`D

Her book about Minahan and child abuse/trafficking left a creepy feeling with me as if she was almost saying this goes on, there is nothing anyone can do about it. and anyone who tries to get justice for these children will just end up in a mental asylum.

by Cherry on 14.10.13 13:37

CW have been accused before of making up stories and then getting someone to take the rap for it.

by Truthandjustice on 14.10.13 14:17

@Cherry wrote:I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

Interesting 'there was always a vehicle'. Makes me think how odd it would be for and abductor to be wandering about town with a child in his arms.

by ultimaThule on 14.10.13 14:59

@Truthandjustice wrote:
@Cherry wrote:I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Interesting 'there was always a vehicle'. Makes me think how odd it would be for and abductor to be wandering about town with a child in his arms.

From what the Smiths said, it doesn't sound as if the man they saw was 'wandering around' so much as walking purposefully towards his intended destination, but it would be unusual for an abductor to make his/her getaway on foot carrying his/her victim because of the risk of being apprehended in the act or of being seen and identified at a later date.

by jeanmonroe on 14.10.13 16:05

So could this TV reconstruction end the distasteful slurs about Kate and Gerry?
_____________________________________

Erm, er, umm, y'know..........................NO!

by gbwales on 14.10.13 16:15

@jeanmonroe wrote:So could this TV reconstruction end the distasteful slurs about Kate and Gerry?
_____________________________________

Possibly - if it heralds in the distasteful truth.

by ultimaThule on 14.10.13 16:20

@jeanmonroe wrote:So could this TV reconstruction end the distasteful slurs about Kate and Gerry?
_____________________________________

Erm, er, umm, y'know..........................NO!

again. If what we believe may be happening is happening they, and everyone associated with them, will be covered in slurry for ever more. Somehow I don't see the good people of Brighton Pavillion taking kindly to a candidate who was only following orders, not that he stood a snowball's of being elected.

400+ and rising comments on the Fail's Crimewatch piece. At very long last the floodgates look as if they won't be easily closed.

by gbwales on 14.10.13 16:22

I sincerely hope the various useful legal and PR people are remembered for their part in it all.

by aiyoyo on 14.10.13 17:26

@nomendelta wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@gbwales wrote:Maybe after so much cowardice and pussyfooting the press are starting to find their feet and are just bit by bit testing the waters with what they can say....?
If they feel sufficiently brave perhaps the wall will break and we'll see a proper 'tidal wave' as KM puts it. Enough to turn Gerry's chinos a much deeper brown.
exactly.
By tomorrow all the press will be able to say, without any threat of come-back from Shhh you know who
that one each, at least, of the stories about the shutters, curtain, windows, in or on the bed, regular checking . . . . and so on
was a LIE.

Gonçalo Amaral will be able to show that their "lack of candour" prevented him from making any decent investigation
TB will be able to trawl back through his bundle of papers and if he can find a single example of a "material inaccuracy" be able to argue that his original prosecution was malicious.

And to act as advocate for the McCanns for a moment -
Why the hell have they done this ?
What are their lawyers thinking of ? (Apart from money- obviously)
Why have Carter-Ruck not stopped this a long time ago ?
PeterMac you are one poster I respect above all others but I am afraid I don't see things this way. I am convinced the parents (who are interviewed as part of the programme) aren't going to expose themselves to weakening their status in any way. This is going to be a new, unified timeline which somehow makes everything they've said still stand but be slightly tweaked to allow for an abduction.

I think they'll be strengthened tomorrow rather than weakened but I hope otherwise.

The SY's changed timelines and focus on Smith's sighting of 10pm would appear they're looking at the abduction having taken place between Matthew's last check at 9.25 and 10.00 Kate's alert. Wider window of opportunity but does not explain how the abduction got in and got out without leaving hallmark. If the bed is anything to go by it looks unslept in. Viewers will be left wondering how snatcher managed to slip Maddie out of the cover without knocking over cuddle cat seen on the edge of the pillow?
The SY has turned this farce into a circus and the media blitz is back to the arguidos days, if not worst.

by ultimaThule on 14.10.13 17:54

@gbwales wrote:I sincerely hope the various useful legal and PR people are remembered for their part in it all.

To make sure they go down in history, if not to another place may I suggest we begin compiling a list when we know the outcome of tonight's show?

There's no rush and maybe we should consider creating a thread dedicated to this roll of dishonour.

by gbwales on 14.10.13 18:05

And conversely once this is all over, be it tonight or another time, I will be wanting to make sure that any papers and tv channels do not gloss over the work of Goncalo Amaral and the PJ, something which my money says is almost certain to be the case.

by Guest on 14.10.13 19:01

@sami wrote:
@nomendelta wrote:The thing is SY are putting out photofits, there's still talk of abduction but no talk of dogs...I don't know how exactly but I really do think that at the very least this new timeline is going to aid the McCanns version of events and leave their character untarnished.

There are already massive contradictions in the various statements - in fact you could write a book on the contradictions the McCanns themselves have uttered. I suspect that with breathtaking arrogance all previous statements and timelines will be swept away as if to suggest the Portuguese didn't listen and there were translation problems and that THIS is the true version of events which leave Kate and Gerry holier than thou (well apart from the thorny issue of leaving the kids unattended in the first place).
Except the timelines and statements were upheld in the really truthful book, penned by the fair hand of Kate herself. The PJ cannot be blamed for that.

And okayed by CR

by Guest on 14.10.13 19:05

@tiny wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:tiny
And she went into great DETAIL about the 'abductor' even down to his SHOES! at 9:20pm
yes ,so she cant say she was mistaken and sy cant say she was mistaken

If she had seen 'The Abductor' with trainers on his feet, she might have tried to hide that fact and introduce regular footwear: brogues?

by Mirage on 14.10.13 20:13

@jeanmonroe wrote:If, IF, SY/Met DARED to 'retrofit' timelines to suit their 'clients' they do realise, don't they, that there are mulitudes of people OUTSIDE of the UK that will INSTANTLY report a (cover up) online and TV and press abroad!

Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown etc

Not UK Madia BUT real, RESPECTED professionals.

Hi Jean, I completely agree with you on the Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown angle. I believe this investigation is in deepest doo doo and the outside world, predominantly the USA (oh the irony) will have to help us Brits out.
SY are sounding increasingly gaga and the utterances I've heard from AR and BBC reportage whilst travelling all day have left me aghast. One of the last comments I caught from AR was that he wanted to "play down" the idea that something was imminent. Really !!!! After the massive build up to a revelatory experience, complete with dramatic cinema trailers.
As far as I can work out, that leaves us with two diametrically opposed e-fits of one man who may or may not be a suspect/witness, aged quite elastically between 20 and 40. Then there's a new character, seen traipsing about PdL - operating within a more convenient time-line and carrying an inert child answering to the description of MBM - blonde hair, wearing pyjamas.
And for good measure they can't reveal why this information has been un-revealed for over 6 years, plus the time it's taken them to cobble together the unlikeliest yarn you ever heard.
I don't think the adage "confusion is good" cuts it these days. No, they're going all out for addling of the brain. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd organised a subliminal memory wipe-out for the masses. Calling America????? Heeeeeelp.

by Guest on 14.10.13 20:18

@Portia wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:tiny
And she went into great DETAIL about the 'abductor' even down to his SHOES! at 9:20pm
yes ,so she cant say she was mistaken and sy cant say she was mistaken
If she had seen 'The Abductor' with trainers on his feet, she might have tried to hide that fact and introduce regular footwear: brogues?

Does she know any other regular type/mark of footwear; maybe this is what her partner likes on his feet, and she has heard him use it;

Ot they were brogues, and she correctly identified them

by Smokeandmirrors on 14.10.13 20:19

@Mirage wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:If, IF, SY/Met DARED to 'retrofit' timelines to suit their 'clients' they do realise, don't they, that there are mulitudes of people OUTSIDE of the UK that will INSTANTLY report a (cover up) online and TV and press abroad!

Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown etc

Not UK Madia BUT real, RESPECTED professionals.
Hi Jean, I completely agree with you on the Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown angle. I believe this investigation is in deepest doo doo and the outside world, predominantly the USA (oh the irony) will have to help us Brits out.
SY are sounding increasingly gaga and the utterances I've heard from AR and BBC reportage whilst travelling all day have left me aghast. One of the last comments I caught from AR was that he wanted to "play down" the idea that something was imminent. Really !!!! After the massive build up to a revelatory experience, complete with dramatic cinema trailers.
As far as I can work out, that leaves us with two diametrically opposed e-fits of one man who may or may not be a suspect/witness, aged quite elastically between 20 and 40. Then there's a new character, seen traipsing about PdL - operating within a more convenient time-line and carrying an inert child answering to the description of MBM - blonde hair, wearing pyjamas.
And for good measure they can't reveal why this information has been un-revealed for over 6 years, plus the time it's taken them to cobble together the unlikeliest yarn you ever heard.
I don't think the adage "confusion is good" cuts it these days. No, they're going all out for addling of the brain. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd organised a subliminal memory wipe-out for the masses. Calling America????? Heeeeeelp.

by Mirage on 14.10.13 20:28

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@Mirage wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:If, IF, SY/Met DARED to 'retrofit' timelines to suit their 'clients' they do realise, don't they, that there are mulitudes of people OUTSIDE of the UK that will INSTANTLY report a (cover up) online and TV and press abroad!

Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown etc

Not UK Madia BUT real, RESPECTED professionals.
Hi Jean, I completely agree with you on the Wendy Murphy, Pat Brown angle. I believe this investigation is in deepest doo doo and the outside world, predominantly the USA (oh the irony) will have to help us Brits out.
SY are sounding increasingly gaga and the utterances I've heard from AR and BBC reportage whilst travelling all day have left me aghast. One of the last comments I caught from AR was that he wanted to "play down" the idea that something was imminent. Really !!!! After the massive build up to a revelatory experience, complete with dramatic cinema trailers.
As far as I can work out, that leaves us with two diametrically opposed e-fits of one man who may or may not be a suspect/witness, aged quite elastically between 20 and 40. Then there's a new character, seen traipsing about PdL - operating within a more convenient time-line and carrying an inert child answering to the description of MBM - blonde hair, wearing pyjamas.
And for good measure they can't reveal why this information has been un-revealed for over 6 years, plus the time it's taken them to cobble together the unlikeliest yarn you ever heard.
I don't think the adage "confusion is good" cuts it these days. No, they're going all out for addling of the brain. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd organised a subliminal memory wipe-out for the masses. Calling America????? Heeeeeelp.

Thanks Smokeandmirrors. Just got in after hours on the road. Looked at the e-fits on a newsstand this morning and thought there must be two suspects/witnesses. I was incredulous when I realised this was meant to be one guy. I just felt furious all the way home listening to even more bilge spilling from the radio. Better gird up me loins for more of the same on CW now. Hope everyone is going to have a snifter to ease the process. I'll raise a glass to all you superb posters tonight. roses