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Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by j.rob on 16.05.14 16:41

Agree with those who think the photo is heavily photo-shopped. The angle of the head in relation to the back is most peculiar giving her a hunchback look. The mere fact that it was not produced until some time after they returned is weird.  Doubt it had anything to do with Portugal. Well, it does, but not the reason they would like us to think. 

Fascinating how many people would have witnessed this episode (or not as the case may be). I think it is supposed to have happened on the morning of Tuesday 1st May. (Which suggests to me something very different was happening on that day.)

Page 57 of the book: "During Gerry's tennis lesson, Madeleine and Ella came to the adjoining court with their Mini Club for a mini-tennis session. Jane and I stayed to watch. It chokes me remembering how my heart soared with pride in Madeleine that morning. She was so happy and obviously enjoying herself. Standing there listening intently to Cat's instructions, she looked so  gorgeous in her little T-shirt and shorts, pink hat, ankle stocks and new holiday sandals that I ran back to our apartment for my camera to record the occasion. One of my photographs is known around the world now: a smiling Madeleine clutching armfuls of tennis balls.  At the end of the session , the children had ben asked to run around the court and pick up as many balls as they could. Madeleine had done really well and was very pleased with herself. Gerry loves that picture. " (hmmm...)

Apart from anything else, surely the children would all be advised to wear trainers? I remember my children were not allowed to take part in sports activities if they did not have the right footwear as it was a health and safety requirement. Playing tennis in sandals is a bad idea, even for a four year old. 

This alone demonstrates to me the level of 'care' that the McCann's are prepared to put into Madeleine's welfare. The sandals look awful - cheap and nasty with a velcro attachment. Completely unsuitable for running around on a tennis court. 

Also, as others have pointed out, mini tennis for children of that age is usually played with a different type of ball. A sponge ball. This would be so easy to verify. 


There would be potentially loads of witnesses to this event. Whoever else was playing tennis with Gerry (especially if it was a group session). Gerry's tennis instructor. Ella and whatever other children were in the mini-tennis session that day. The nanny Cat (although I have read elsewhere the children's tennis instructor was called Georgina) plus any other members of staff (there would presumably have been at least two members of staff depending on how many children were in group that day). Plus any other parents who were watching or just happened to be nearby?

Given the very peculiar incident that Kate describes in her book relating to the video-recording of a guest's three year old daughter on Thursday at a mini tennis session. And given that I am pretty sure that Kate has spun this incident to give it an innocent explanation, I am wondering if the McCircus attempt to film a three year old girl playing mini-tennis was thwarted on Thursday. Hence Gerry was obliged to cobble together such an image when he returned to the UK.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by canada12 on 16.05.14 17:09

I think you might have something there, j.rob. I agree with you about the footwear. If a child is wearing sandals that means feet can slip and there's basically no support, so the potential for tripping or just falling over if there's a lot of running about is there. There must be rules about liability if children are on a tennis court with incorrect footwear?

It's an interesting thought that perhaps Kate and Gerry and co. were trying to get video or a photo of a little girl - any little girl - on the tennis courts. It wouldn't matter what the little girl looked like because Madeleine's head could easily be photoshopped in.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 17:13

J.Rob: I don't think that you are correct in saying that this photo was not produced until later - that was the poolside photo.

There is information somewhere here about the date of issue of the various photos; I hope to find it and post a link.

I am confident though that it was published with a week of 3rd May.
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Left or right facing?

Post by worriedmum on 16.05.14 17:18

I hope some-one who plays tennis can advise here. Can anyone distinguish the brand of tennis ball? It would establish if the photo has been flipped and possibly whether they are English tennis balls?


Has the photo been 'flipped'? I think it has appeared facing the other way too. If the photo has been flipped then you would expect Madeleine's visible arm on the 'last photo' to show the  'sunburn' as it was taken afterwards.It doesn't.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by canada12 on 16.05.14 18:06

@worriedmum wrote:I hope some-one who plays tennis can advise here. Can anyone distinguish the brand of tennis ball? It would establish if the photo has been flipped and possibly whether they are English tennis balls?


Has the photo been 'flipped'? I think it has appeared facing the other way too. If the photo has been flipped then you would expect Madeleine's visible arm on the 'last photo' to show the  'sunburn' as it was taken afterwards.It doesn't.
I'm trying to find a photo of yellow tennis balls that have that kind of writing on them, in order to have some kind of starting point for trying to "read" the writing. All of the photos I can find are too low-res to make out the writing, so it's almost impossible to check to see if the picture has been flipped. So I was looking for patterns and brand names. If anyone has the time to do this or knows what brand tennis ball it is, that would be great!

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by j.rob on 16.05.14 18:39

I had just assumed that photo appeared at the same time as 'the last photos'. It must be quite easy to verify whether the mini tennis session that Madeleine and Ella are supposed to have participated in used that type of tennis ball.

And I still think it is odd that she is wearing sandals. I am sure the staff would have specified that appropriate footwear was required, so even if Madeleine did participate, this would have made her stand out.

Talking of photos, there was much discussion on another thread, now closed, about the Wendy House photo. It is, indeed, a strange photo. I think it is supposed to demonstrate that Gerry spent time on that holiday playing with his children (as well as presumably placing him and the children in a certain place at a certain time) But, as is nearly always the case with his photos, it does not achieve its objective. 
Gerry is neither making eye contact with Madeleine nor really engaging with her or any of the children. 

The dark haired child does not look like one of his. So whose child is this?

And the man standing behind the Wendy House who,  one presumes, is accompanying a child playing nearby (otherwise surely he wouldn't be hanging around in the vicinity of the children's play area). His expression is noteworthy. 

In the context of what was being alleged at the time the photo was published, one might be inclined to look at him and think: 'ah, a man hanging around the children's play area but not seemingly playing with a child - maybe he could have been the abductor.'

But, presumably this man was identified and ruled out as having any involvement. In which case, was that ever made clear?

Looking at the photo through a different lens, you could reach a different conclusion. He is actually the only person who is having any proper engagement with anyone else (apart from possibly the brown haired child who could be looking at Gerry as if to say - 'who the heck are you and what do you want?' He is quite distinctively looking at the person who is taking the photo. And, while initially I had mistaken his expression for furtiveness, I actually think it is displeasure.

So could he, too, be looking at whoever is taking the photo and thinking: 'who the heck are you and what are you doing'.

Especially if you consider that his own children might have ended up included in the photo?! 

Just an idea. The McCircus had already aroused the suspicions of Nigel from Southampton with their choice of video-recording. So perhaps this was another person who found their behaviour strange. 

It is also interesting that the McCann's allowed the photo to circulate with the face of an (apparently) completely innocent man staring into the camera. I wouldn't want to be included in any of their 'family snaps'.

I wonder who he is?

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 18:40

Just quickly answering the one thing I do know - the dark-haired girl is the elder Payne daughter, the same one climbing the plane steps with Madeleine and sitting next to her on the bus.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by canada12 on 16.05.14 19:00

The man behind the house was identified as one of the other holidaymakers that I believe the McCanns knew. What's peculiar about him is his feet. If you look closely he's facing one direction and his feet and legs are facing another direction in an impossible position, even if he were an extremely agile ballet dancer or acrobat.

I can't remember his name off the top of my head.

The other interesting things about this photo are:

1. If you stand "Madeleine" up straight she'd be much taller than your average 3-4 year old
2. "Madeleine" has two left feet
3. The shadows are all very peculiar

For me, this is a primary example of a manipulated photo with elements that have been added to make a composite. IMO.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 19:51

@canada12 wrote:The man behind the house was identified as one of the other holidaymakers that I believe the McCanns knew. What's peculiar about him is his feet. If you look closely he's facing one direction and his feet and legs are facing another direction in an impossible position, even if he were an extremely agile ballet dancer or acrobat.

I can't remember his name off the top of my head.

The other interesting things about this photo are:

1. If you stand "Madeleine" up straight she'd be much taller than your average 3-4 year old
2. "Madeleine" has two left feet
3. The shadows are all very peculiar

For me, this is a primary example of a manipulated photo with elements that have been added to make a composite. IMO.
Yes - your very correct with your observations. Not noticed it before..

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 20:25

Mr Mc Cann
If you follow this forum, as we suppose you do, what happened to the little girl in front of you in this picture?
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by onehand on 16.05.14 21:24

@worriedmum wrote:I hope some-one who plays tennis can advise here. Can anyone distinguish the brand of tennis ball? It would establish if the photo has been flipped and possibly whether they are English tennis balls?


Has the photo been 'flipped'? I think it has appeared facing the other way too. If the photo has been flipped then you would expect Madeleine's visible arm on the 'last photo' to show the  'sunburn' as it was taken afterwards.It doesn't.
long time ago i did play some recreational tennis, but just for some months.

but as far that i can make it out the print looks red to me, this is what i could find of tennis balls with double line text and in red:

http://www.amazon.com/Unique-Mesh-Pack-Tennis-Balls/dp/B00196LGAC/ref=sr_1_14?s=racquet-sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1400270681&sr=1-14

those look the same, but maybe a bit more useful for somebody who is a master in photoshop:

http://www.amazon.com/Tourna-Pressure-Less-Ball-Pack/dp/B00AOJGFRE/ref=sr_1_24?s=racquet-sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1400270681&sr=1-24

i'am not certain if it is the right one, but the one upside down in the large pack from the second link could be the one, but the resolution from the madeleine at tennis is very low.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 21:57






Not convinced they are exactly the same ones. However the closest resemblance i can see so far. Thanks onehand.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by canada12 on 16.05.14 21:58

@onehand wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I hope some-one who plays tennis can advise here. Can anyone distinguish the brand of tennis ball? It would establish if the photo has been flipped and possibly whether they are English tennis balls?


Has the photo been 'flipped'? I think it has appeared facing the other way too. If the photo has been flipped then you would expect Madeleine's visible arm on the 'last photo' to show the  'sunburn' as it was taken afterwards.It doesn't.
long time ago i did play some recreational tennis, but just for some months.

but as far that i can make it out the print looks red to me, this is what i could find of tennis balls with double line text and in red:

http://www.amazon.com/Unique-Mesh-Pack-Tennis-Balls/dp/B00196LGAC/ref=sr_1_14?s=racquet-sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1400270681&sr=1-14

those look the same, but maybe a bit more useful for somebody who is a master in photoshop:

http://www.amazon.com/Tourna-Pressure-Less-Ball-Pack/dp/B00AOJGFRE/ref=sr_1_24?s=racquet-sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1400270681&sr=1-24

i'am not certain if it is the right one, but the one upside down in the large pack from the second link could be the one, but the resolution from the madeleine at tennis is very low.

You might be onto something here.

Here are the tennis balls without Amazon:

or these?


Here's the best resolution I can find for Madeleine holding the balls:


I was going to say something similar but you beat me to it, Andrew77R!

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Re: Recap on Tennis Ball Photo

Post by Sparklehorse on 16.05.14 22:04

The man behind the Wendy House in the playground photo in my opinion bears quite a resemblance to Revd Lars F Nowen the Snr Chaplain at St Vincent's Anglican Church - Haynes Hubbard's successor. Check out www.stvincentsalgarve.org and go to the people section. There is a picture of him full length in casual clothes on the website if you search for 30 hr famine which gives a better comparison.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Woofer on 16.05.14 22:12

@Sparklehorse wrote:The man behind the Wendy House in the playground photo  in my opinion bears quite a resemblance to Revd Lars F Nowen the Snr Chaplain at St Vincent's Anglican Church - Haynes Hubbard's successor. Check out  www.stvincentsalgarve.org and go to the people section. There is a picture of him full length in casual clothes on the website if you search for 30 hr famine which gives a better comparison.

wAS IT THIS ONE?

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Re:Recap on the Tennis Ball Photo

Post by Sparklehorse on 16.05.14 22:22

Thank you Woofer that's the one. my iPad hates me won't copy links or photos a lot of the time.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by worriedmum on 16.05.14 22:26

I wondered if the lower red characters were xxx which I think means the balls are 'seconds'?
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by MF77 on 16.05.14 22:31

If you're trying to diagnose potential photoshop fraud with any of the above pics, do you realise you can run them through photo forensics, to see what's been 'edited, copied or pasted' into an image?

I'm pretty sure too, that there is no digital way of removing such activity.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Hicks on 16.05.14 22:32

Andrew77R wrote:
@canada12 wrote:The man behind the house was identified as one of the other holidaymakers that I believe the McCanns knew. What's peculiar about him is his feet. If you look closely he's facing one direction and his feet and legs are facing another direction in an impossible position, even if he were an extremely agile ballet dancer or acrobat.

I can't remember his name off the top of my head.

The other interesting things about this photo are:

1. If you stand "Madeleine" up straight she'd be much taller than your average 3-4 year old
2. "Madeleine" has two left feet
3. The shadows are all very peculiar

For me, this is a primary example of a manipulated photo with elements that have been added to make a composite. IMO.
Yes - your very correct with your observations. Not noticed it before..

Wow, now those oddities are pointed out the photo make sense. GM is playing with the twins only, Madeleine has been added. The bald man has been added in the background to propel the myth that people were watching them. KM says on the Corner clip in August that 'they must have been watching us for days'.

Wonder when the photo was taken?

If the photo has been altered that means the bald man is in on the scam otherwise he would have alerted to it by and we wouldn't be here now.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 22:35

Hicks: the dark-haired girl is the Paynes' daughter, not Amelie.

I would hazard a guess that this photo was taken on 28th April as the clothes that the children are wearing are very similar to those in the airport and bus video.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by juliet on 16.05.14 22:36

Where is the lower half of Sean's body? Why does he look tiny compared to Madeleine when in other photos he is almost the same size?
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by canada12 on 16.05.14 22:41

Unfortunately that Bruno press pic isn't very good. Here's a better image (with annotations someone else made unfortunately):



There used to be some very good versions of this picture online but I'm not sure where they've disappeared to. I'll look.

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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 22:45

@Woofer wrote:
@Sparklehorse wrote:The man behind the Wendy House in the playground photo  in my opinion bears quite a resemblance to Revd Lars F Nowen the Snr Chaplain at St Vincent's Anglican Church - Haynes Hubbard's successor. Check out  www.stvincentsalgarve.org and go to the people section. There is a picture of him full length in casual clothes on the website if you search for 30 hr famine which gives a better comparison.

wAS IT THIS ONE?

***
How many times have we been here before?
No, it's not the reverend Nowen.
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Guest on 16.05.14 22:47

@juliet wrote:Where is the lower half of Sean's body? Why does he look tiny compared to Madeleine when in other photos he is almost the same size?
Good point. Why is there shadows in front of Sean as well??

Get's weirder every time you look at this pic....
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Re: Recap on the Tennis Balls photo

Post by Hicks on 16.05.14 22:47

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Hicks: the dark-haired girl is the Paynes' daughter, not Amelie.

I would hazard a guess that this photo was taken on 28th April as the clothes that the children are wearing are very similar to those in the airport and bus video.
Yes, sorry. Though I still think GM is playing with the two children sat down and that Madeleine was never there.

If the photo was taken that early on, and it has been doctored (no pun intended) then it would lend to the theory that the whole thing was pre-planned back in the UK.

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