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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

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Post by plebgate 13.10.13 19:05

Murat basically said that he hopes this doesn't just fizzle out like the other "leads" that have given hope.

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Post by Harriet94 13.10.13 19:10

I am sure this will have been discussed/commented on before, but I have just read the extract from David Paynes Statement describing his visit to Kate in 5A. Two things struct me. The first that it was informaton from photographs that told him what time it must have been. Secondly, he used a strange choice of words to describe the scene. Who would describe a young child at bed-time as being 'at peace'? Also little angel dressed in white. I am now beginning to wonder if he was giving a cryptic message to the police or someone else.This is making me feel really sad. I believe the evidence of the dogs and I am interested in finding out what happened to Madeleine, not because I am "captivated" by it, but because I believe that Madeleine has been exploited and for some reason people have colluded to prevent the truth of her disappearance being revealed.
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Post by The Rooster 13.10.13 19:11

I like your thought processes Mr/ Ms Peewit. Nice post and welcome.

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Post by Guest 13.10.13 19:13

@The Rooster wrote:I like your thought processes Mr/ Ms Peewit. Nice post and welcome.
Welcome from me too PeeWit  welcome2
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Post by pennylane 13.10.13 19:14

@plebgate wrote:Murat basically said that he hopes this doesn't just fizzle out like the other "leads" that have given hope.
The BBC journalist said 'the Portuguese shelved the case...' and said nothing about the McCann's being 'cleared'  thumbup 

An actual fact being reported for once!  Perhaps our e-mails are making a difference after all.
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Post by Foxy 13.10.13 19:18

@tigger wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:from twitter, the revelation !!

  AFoxInABox@The21lvaFox 8m
Re: #mccann timeline. I think the revelation is going to be #Tapas9 put their watches forward an hour when they didn't need to big grin 
Yes, that was my thought too. Only snag is how did they manage to arrive on time for the crèches, tennis lessons etc. 
- and Kate's  statement in the book that at 9.05 by his watch Gerry got up to check. 
We must then suppose that J. Wilkins also set his watch an hour forward. So a general malaise affecting only the British contingent? 
It' s my belief that the apparent earlier start of the performance on the 3rd (things seem to have started 30 to 20 minutes too early) was due to someone in the UK having done their bit  an hour early which would explain that very early contact with the head of the PJ which according to Correiade da Manha was at 11.00 p.m. on the 3rd. Allegedly the Ambassador phoned him.
Just registered again, forgot last login details. So that can't be the revelation then! Agree with you tigger, theres some kind of time shift.
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Post by bobbin 13.10.13 19:20

@tigger wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:from twitter, the revelation !!

  AFoxInABox@The21lvaFox 8m
Re: #mccann timeline. I think the revelation is going to be #Tapas9 put their watches forward an hour when they didn't need to big grin 
Yes, that was my thought too. Only snag is how did they manage to arrive on time for the crèches, tennis lessons etc. 
- and Kate's  statement in the book that at 9.05 by his watch Gerry got up to check. 
We must then suppose that J. Wilkins also set his watch an hour forward. So a general malaise affecting only the British contingent? 
It' s my belief that the apparent earlier start of the performance on the 3rd (things seem to have started 30 to 20 minutes too early) was due to someone in the UK having done their bit  an hour early which would explain that very early contact with the head of the PJ which according to Correiade da Manha was at 11.00 p.m. on the 3rd. Allegedly the Ambassador phoned him.
Portugal and UK have the same time don't they, so yes UK kick off time, a bit premature (nerves probably), could easily have got the phone calls and Ambassador moving too early. An interesting thought. They were certainly quick off the mark with everything else, like fund, lawyers, etc.
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Post by Smokeandmirrors 13.10.13 19:25

@bobbin wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:from twitter, the revelation !!

  AFoxInABox@The21lvaFox 8m
Re: #mccann timeline. I think the revelation is going to be #Tapas9 put their watches forward an hour when they didn't need to big grin 
Yes, that was my thought too. Only snag is how did they manage to arrive on time for the crèches, tennis lessons etc. 
- and Kate's  statement in the book that at 9.05 by his watch Gerry got up to check. 
We must then suppose that J. Wilkins also set his watch an hour forward. So a general malaise affecting only the British contingent? 
It' s my belief that the apparent earlier start of the performance on the 3rd (things seem to have started 30 to 20 minutes too early) was due to someone in the UK having done their bit  an hour early which would explain that very early contact with the head of the PJ which according to Correiade da Manha was at 11.00 p.m. on the 3rd. Allegedly the Ambassador phoned him.
Portugal and UK have the same time don't they, so yes UK kick off time, a bit premature (nerves probably), could easily have got the phone calls and Ambassador moving too early. An interesting thought. They were certainly quick off the mark with everything else, like fund, lawyers, etc.
Yup, they were organising their 'get out of jail free' card before even having a proper look for a lost little girl who could, theoretically at that time, have wandered and been lying injured somewhere. The stench of rattus rattus was in the air from the get-go.

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Post by Harriet94 13.10.13 19:34

The wrong time frame would also explain how it could occur that a child is reported as missing in Portugal on PC's in UK in just over 2 hours from being discovered 'missing from her bed' Far too early to raise the alarm IMO, especially as she might have woken up and wandered.
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Post by mahlersghost 13.10.13 19:40

If Ambassador Buck did contact the PJ national director at 11pm who contacted Buck? It could only have been the FCO or someone else of great political clout.  Ambassadors do not ring PJ directors at 11pm to update on an apparent fluid situation without being ordered to do it
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Post by mahlersghost 13.10.13 19:44

Has anyone heard a refutation of the reported call from Buck to Ribeiro on 3 May 07?
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Post by endgame 13.10.13 19:57

Don't know how to copy Twitter but these tweets today from Pat Brown:

"Millions of pounds and 2 years of analysis and NSY is essentially rebroadcasting the 'Madeleine was Here' propaganda documentary"

"For those who think I am accusing NSY of police misconduct, they are absolutely correct. Nothing they have said or done is proper."

Apologies if these have already been picked up and I have missed them.
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Post by endgame 13.10.13 20:04

Pat Brown also posted this You Tube video of SY interviewing witness to create e-fit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1zGvQ9WcWg
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Post by JackieL 13.10.13 20:22

@PeeWit wrote:My first posting but regularly check in to view this site:


My observations/theory concerning, what I see to be, very worrying times:


Redwood appears to be giving no credence whatsoever to the PJ files and/or conclusions.


Even so, I believe he can’t possibly put the abduction before 9:15 so ………..


IMO - Redwood is going to “bin” the Tanner sighting (he may even concede the “impossibility” of the timings).


He will bring the Smith sighting into centre stage and re-engineer the time-line from that. ie 9:50 less the time it takes to walk from 5a carrying a child (don’t know but looking at the maps I would think between 10 and 15 minutes) and voila, the abduction took place at circa 9:30 – 9:40. (Just after RO)


If there are good reasons why this would not be acceptable to the masses I would love to hear them!!


I see this as Redwoods ONLY viable alternative time-line – indeed it accommodates the time-line scribbled on the back of M’s exercise book. It also “allows” for the abductor/s to enter and leave by the unlocked patio doors! I have often wondered why TM have never considered this as an alternative.


Probably because they do have potential problems with it:


It takes away the ONLY “credible” evidence they have ever had for there being an abduction (Tanner), and the supposition that GM could not have been involved if he was seen by JT.


It totally flies in the face of the statements of many witnesses (none of whom have an “axe to grind”) who appear to have seen either the Tapas table empty before 9:30, or who had heard (again before 9:30) that a little girl had gone missing. Something that I have always thought should have been given far more credence.


It also puts GM back in the frame, especially if the above paragraph holds water (which it does).


It beggars belief that two German/Dutch types would travel to PdL- with the specific intention of abducting a child – without a car!! So why would GermoDutch man be walking for between 10 and 15 minutes carrying a stolen child?!


Therefore Redwood and TM will have to be very sure of the “revelation moment” evidence.


Just putting a couple of pedos in the area on 3rd. May (even by mobile phone “pings”) will not cut it, and to rely on the sighting of a couple of German sounding guys acting suspiciously (I’ve seen hundreds)  will bring SY to the brink of becoming a laughing stock!


Tread carefully Mr Redwood!
Excellent post Peewit. Welcome.  I agree that the only way to fit the timeline to an abduction is to dump Jane Tanner's bundleman. You can't do anything with Gerry's "I thought how beautiful she was/recovery position" stuff, - he's been seen by Jez outside the apartment so he HAS to see Madeleine alive. So Redwood's only option is to make Tanner wrong about Bundleman carrying Madeleine.
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Post by mahlersghost 13.10.13 20:29

I would be interested to know exactly when DCI Redwood had his revelation - it may come out in the wash tomorrow but I'm refusing to hold my breath until then.

If it is based around timelines and other information given by the T9 being impossible to reconcile with all of the latest knowledge then the T9 have to be re-examined in Portugal because the PJ would have been working with erroneous/false statements from the T9. 

Redwood cannot re-jig the timelines to make the T9 statements appear to give an 'abductor' scope to abduct - otherwise no-ones statement is worth diddly squat.  And if he is a honest cop he will not.  The political pressure on this case, as information builds up, is becoming ever more apparent to me -  something/someone big is being kept safe - I'm not sure PT has the clout to defy the UK if it is definitely politically motivated (establishment rather than party political).
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Post by Seek truth 13.10.13 20:29

coffee Now the mccanns have managed to get them to say what THEY want.

We are supposed to believe that the timeline etc was wrong. How comes they are allowed to CHANGE what has been said in the files AND the British interviews?

They are going to show a NEW story, confusing the public. Film works better than print, you see.
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Post by ShuBob 13.10.13 20:34

Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

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Post by celtclogs 13.10.13 20:39

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:thumbup thumbup Every time I check in here for my updates I'm overwhelmed by respect for this forum, all of us pulling together to ensure this travesty of injustice and manipulation does not get buried. I can't think of anything else I've felt this way about. If team McCann think we're going to give up, they're much mistaken. We owe this to our children (of all ages). 

Thank you everyone for your effort and for helping me to keep a part of my brain sane
thumbsup  Well said And  I for one are not going to give up on Maddie I will stay as long as it takes to get justice for her, the poor wee soul  sad1
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Post by pennylane 13.10.13 20:44

@JackieL wrote:
@PeeWit wrote:My first posting but regularly check in to view this site:


My observations/theory concerning, what I see to be, very worrying times:


Redwood appears to be giving no credence whatsoever to the PJ files and/or conclusions.


Even so, I believe he can’t possibly put the abduction before 9:15 so ………..


IMO - Redwood is going to “bin” the Tanner sighting (he may even concede the “impossibility” of the timings).


He will bring the Smith sighting into centre stage and re-engineer the time-line from that. ie 9:50 less the time it takes to walk from 5a carrying a child (don’t know but looking at the maps I would think between 10 and 15 minutes) and voila, the abduction took place at circa 9:30 – 9:40. (Just after RO)


If there are good reasons why this would not be acceptable to the masses I would love to hear them!!


I see this as Redwoods ONLY viable alternative time-line – indeed it accommodates the time-line scribbled on the back of M’s exercise book. It also “allows” for the abductor/s to enter and leave by the unlocked patio doors! I have often wondered why TM have never considered this as an alternative.


Probably because they do have potential problems with it:


It takes away the ONLY “credible” evidence they have ever had for there being an abduction (Tanner), and the supposition that GM could not have been involved if he was seen by JT.


It totally flies in the face of the statements of many witnesses (none of whom have an “axe to grind”) who appear to have seen either the Tapas table empty before 9:30, or who had heard (again before 9:30) that a little girl had gone missing. Something that I have always thought should have been given far more credence.


It also puts GM back in the frame, especially if the above paragraph holds water (which it does).


It beggars belief that two German/Dutch types would travel to PdL- with the specific intention of abducting a child – without a car!! So why would GermoDutch man be walking for between 10 and 15 minutes carrying a stolen child?!


Therefore Redwood and TM will have to be very sure of the “revelation moment” evidence.


Just putting a couple of pedos in the area on 3rd. May (even by mobile phone “pings”) will not cut it, and to rely on the sighting of a couple of German sounding guys acting suspiciously (I’ve seen hundreds)  will bring SY to the brink of becoming a laughing stock!


Tread carefully Mr Redwood!
Excellent post Peewit. Welcome.  I agree that the only way to fit the timeline to an abduction is to dump Jane Tanner's bundleman. You can't do anything with Gerry's "I thought how beautiful she was/recovery position" stuff, - he's been seen by Jez outside the apartment so he HAS to see Madeleine alive. So Redwood's only option is to make Tanner wrong about Bundleman carrying Madeleine.
Welcome Peewit, goodpost 

Gerry claimed that 'Jane independently described Madeleine's pj's' when she saw bundleman carrying her, so will Redwood consider her abductor sighting as having a suspicious ulterior motive, and her partner ROB's lengthy absence as also highly suspicious?   liar liar 

Fat chance, I say.
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Post by Guest 13.10.13 20:47

@ShuBob wrote:Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

Sunday Express - ACCEPTED VERSION OF EVENTS IS WRONG and DAILYSTAR - WHAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THE TRUTH - Page 15 BWepN79CQAA8XKe
Is it me or does the guy on the right look like Martin Brunt?
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Post by tasprin 13.10.13 20:48

melisande wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

Sunday Express - ACCEPTED VERSION OF EVENTS IS WRONG and DAILYSTAR - WHAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THE TRUTH - Page 15 BWepN79CQAA8XKe
Is it me or does the guy on the right look like Martin Brunt?
Yes he does big grin 
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Post by ShuBob 13.10.13 20:49

melisande wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

Sunday Express - ACCEPTED VERSION OF EVENTS IS WRONG and DAILYSTAR - WHAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THE TRUTH - Page 15 BWepN79CQAA8XKe
Is it me or does the guy on the right look like Martin Brunt?
It's not you. And the guy on the left looks like Murat to me Shocked 
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Post by JackieL 13.10.13 20:55

@tasprin wrote:
melisande wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

Sunday Express - ACCEPTED VERSION OF EVENTS IS WRONG and DAILYSTAR - WHAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THE TRUTH - Page 15 BWepN79CQAA8XKe
Is it me or does the guy on the right look like Martin Brunt?
Yes he does big grin 
LOL!!! big grin
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Post by Guest 13.10.13 21:01

@JackieL wrote:
@tasprin wrote:
melisande wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Someone on Twitter has posted two e-fits which they allege are from a local newspaper:

https://twitter.com/ad_mills/status/389465949843124225

Sunday Express - ACCEPTED VERSION OF EVENTS IS WRONG and DAILYSTAR - WHAT YOU KNOW IS NOT THE TRUTH - Page 15 BWepN79CQAA8XKe
Is it me or does the guy on the right look like Martin Brunt?
Yes he does big grin 
LOL!!! big grin
Not only that, the guy on the left looks like Redwood without the baggy eyes!
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Post by Beanie 13.10.13 21:16

 candyfloss wrote:
@The Rooster wrote:I like your thought processes Mr/ Ms Peewit. Nice post and welcome.
Welcome from me too PeeWit  welcome2
Very interesting post and very plausible. welcome
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