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'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by MRNOODLES on 09.10.13 16:35

@sallypelt wrote:
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent

Scotland Yard is to appeal for information about a new suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Detectives are to issue an e-fit image of a man seen near the holiday apartment from where the then three-year-old vanished in 2007.

Her parents Kate and Gerry McCann have been shown the image and say they are "greatly encouraged" by the progress of the Metropolitan Police, who have effectively taken over the hunt for the missing girl.

So, they aren't suspects then?
Unless it's the Smith's e-fit.  That would be interesting.
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Angelique on 09.10.13 16:38

Ayniia

I agree, totally agree. I can't help but wonder if they are dismissing the evidence of the dogs, then why did they bring them into the investigation in the first place. Was there an ulterior motive?

If Operation Grange is now going to totally ignore this evidence and support abduction and surprise, surprise here is an e-fit of the person we are looking for, how can this be right. Is this an exercise in "lets see how much guff we can ram down the throats of the public" or "lets see how many of them are still awake".

Or were there certain sections of the MET that were not controlled then in the same way as Operation Grange now seems to be controlled. 

Was there an agenda already agreed that the Portuguese investigation would only be allowed to progress to a certain point and no further. As in making Kate & Gerry arguidos. Once this point was reached they would return to UK and be out of reach - which is what they did. 

The more this farce continues the more corrupt it gets.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by sallypelt on 09.10.13 16:42

@Woofer wrote:They could be rehashing the efit of the man that 2 witnesses saw hanging about outside the apartment - as in the Cutting Edge documentary.  Can`t find it on Youtube but Joana showed it recently :-

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-few-questions-on-crimewatch.html

Witness statements start about 1.30.
I wonder if they eventually enhanced that grainy photo that the FBI claimed to have had?

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by ShuBob on 09.10.13 16:43

The e-fit could be one done by the Smiths which = Gerry big grin 

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by MRNOODLES on 09.10.13 16:52

@ShuBob wrote:The e-fit could be one done by the Smiths which = Gerry big grin 
Exactly my thinking above ^^^^.

That would be a great deal of pressure on theses two.  If the e-fit had an uncanny resemblance to GM.

Certainly possible imo.  Because if there was a case of urgency, SY would've released the e-fit asap.
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by tigger on 09.10.13 16:55

I'm waiting for a surprise arrest announced a week or so in advance.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Ollie1 on 09.10.13 17:04

As SY are not releasing any information instead waiting for the reconstruction to be shown tells me that SY don't believe Madeleine is still alive IMO.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by jozi on 09.10.13 17:10

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:The e-fit could be one done by the Smiths which = Gerry big grin 
Exactly my thinking above ^^^^.

That would be a great deal of pressure on theses two.  If the e-fit had an uncanny resemblance to GM.

Certainly possible imo.  Because if there was a case of urgency, SY would've released the e-fit asap.
Cannot look like Gerry though as in one paper the Mcs have already seen it and are pleased with the progress being made by SY.....
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Truthandjustice on 09.10.13 17:13

@Snifferdog wrote:These ridiculous press releases do not come from Scotland Yard it begs the question as to why Scotland Yard are not investigating the source of the fountain of of bullshit.  IMO Pamalam found out something Huge which goes right to the top of the establishment dung heap and realised that under the present circumstances the pair would never face justice, so she retired.  IMO the pair have info (perhaps even before M's disappearance) on someone/people  the very throne (another name for lavatory).  There is so much disgusting stuff coming to light re  MP's and Others.  IMO Pamalam realised that even though many people did not believe the pair as regards to their daughter she kew that it would be diifficult to convince most that the rot is at e top.  Even if people did come to realise there is not much that can be done about the aforesaid other than a revolution.  IMO we truly are in the grip of evil times  The evidence is everywhere.
Yes.  The counter force to truth is very strong in this case, nearly impenetrable and if they cannot eliminate dissent, continuing confusion will do.  I guess it's important to keep a sense of humour about it as Blacksmith does otherwise it gets very depressing.  I hope eventually time will tell.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by MRNOODLES on 09.10.13 17:17

@jozi wrote:
@MRNOODLES wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:The e-fit could be one done by the Smiths which = Gerry big grin 
Exactly my thinking above ^^^^.

That would be a great deal of pressure on theses two.  If the e-fit had an uncanny resemblance to GM.

Certainly possible imo.  Because if there was a case of urgency, SY would've released the e-fit asap.
Cannot look like Gerry though as in one paper the Mcs have already seen it and are pleased with the progress being made by SY.....
Why not?  He's unlikely to say the e-fit is not right as it resembles himself.  If it's been put together by the Smiths GM will just have to suck it up and go along with it.
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by margaret on 09.10.13 17:17

@Ollie1 wrote:As SY are not releasing any information instead waiting for the reconstruction to be shown tells me that SY don't believe Madeleine is still alive IMO.  
But why carry on with this charade then?

I think this is do with with the Gaspar statements, and who those concerned have information on.

I hope Redwoods pension is worth the life of a little girl.
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by tasprin on 09.10.13 17:18

@Ayniia wrote:IMO whatever the outcome of this "crimewatch"  is, the program will loose all credibility. I can't really believe of how "dumb " ( sorry but I can't find a better word ) the public is. Seriously 6 years later "new suspect ","substantive new evidence "?
Let's think... someone knew about this suspect and is only telling now?! Did this person went to the police? No, it went ( conveniently ) to a tv station or directly to the Mccanns. If the person went to the police and it's a credible lead we wouldn't know about it by the TV...
A reconstruction made in a place where the events didn't happened, how truthful can it be?!
Sorry for this little OT,  I was talking with a friend this week and he said: If Madeleine is still out there alive...
So I went on saying:  but there's the dogs evidence. (I went on explaining this to him).
I can't believe the dogs that helped in so many investigations with great success, were wrong in this case and ONLY in this one. Sure I could believe the dogs may be mistaken if they had just signaled ONE item . But they didn't, and all the items signaled were connected to the Mccanns. Why is it then, that SY is not even dwelling on that evidence? I don't even ask for the media to get it, but if SY is making a review of the case one thinks they should get to it at some point?
Back to "crimewatch " I'm expecting something along the lines of "Madeleine was here ". Every time there's talk about a "new suspect " I get obviously suspicious. As some of you pointed out before why wait till the program gets aired to show the efit? Also why the complete dismissal of the parents as suspects when there's no definitive proof that they were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance? Questions, questions, always and only posed by this "vile groups of online trolls " who have nothing better to do with their life's than search for the truth and justice for Madeleine .
So go ahead "crimewatch " give us a new theory ,give us a faithful reconstruction done "not in the place of the events ", give us all you want because we "vile beings " have time to comment on that and it won't even distract us from this kind of "unimportant " trial that's going on in this place you may not know or were "forbidden " to come, called Portugal.
All IMHO and I'm not sorry for the sarcastic tone of all this.
IMO labelling sceptics as trolls is just another Team McCann PR 'marketing ploy'. It's not at all unreasonable that people question this mad case, but in their arrogance the McCanns expect the paying public to simply shut up and shell out. They're adept at playing the victim and have decided that anyone who questions their story will be slapped down as a troll, hater or any other adjective they can think of to deter debate. The McCanns bombarded the public from the beginning; TV interviews, begging for money, demanding every one but themselves search for Madeleine, buy the posters, holiday tags, t-shirts etc. They can hardly be surprised if their words and actions aroused curiosity and people sat up and wondered what the heck is going on with these two.

From Vanity Fair 2007
“The McCanns have completely changed the way we now look for missing children—it used to be you go to the police; now it means you go to the media, to celebrities,” says a disapproving Scotland Yard specialist in abused children.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by sallypelt on 09.10.13 17:22

And let's not forget this:

Cops 'developed' evidence against Madeleine McCann's parents, according to WikiLeaks
British police helped "develop" evidence against Madeleine McCann's parents, according to diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks.

The UK's ambassador to Portugal, Alexander Wykeham Ellis, reportedly made the claim to his American counterpart in 2007 - two weeks after Portuguese police named Gerry and Kate McCann as suspects.

In a cable to Washington, US Ambassador Al Hoffman wrote: "Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively.

"He commented that the media frenzy was to be expected and was acceptable as long as government officials keep their comments behind closed doors."

Kate and Gerry said their status as suspects was lifted in 2008, proving that they weren't involved in their daughter's disappearance.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-developed-evidence-against-madeleine-269414

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Guest on 09.10.13 17:24

@Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Very bizarre!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450832/Victorian-photographs-relatives-posing-alongside-dead-bodies.html

I knew that it was customary to keep bodies in the home until the funeral - and well into the 20th century too - but I didn't know about the use of photography.

Apologies for going off topic.
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Sneak preview of e-fit

Post by PeterMac on 09.10.13 17:25

" />

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by tasprin on 09.10.13 17:27

@sallypelt wrote:And let's not forget this:

Cops 'developed' evidence against Madeleine McCann's parents, according to WikiLeaks
British police helped "develop" evidence against Madeleine McCann's parents, according to diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks.

The UK's ambassador to Portugal, Alexander Wykeham Ellis, reportedly made the claim to his American counterpart in 2007 - two weeks after Portuguese police named Gerry and Kate McCann as suspects.

In a cable to Washington, US Ambassador Al Hoffman wrote: "Ellis admitted that the British police had developed the current evidence against the McCann parents, and he stressed that authorities from both countries were working co-operatively.

"He commented that the media frenzy was to be expected and was acceptable as long as government officials keep their comments behind closed doors."

Kate and Gerry said their status as suspects was lifted in 2008, proving that they weren't involved in their daughter's disappearance.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-developed-evidence-against-madeleine-269414
Yes Sally there are just so many reasons for the public's scepticism, far too many to mention now.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by plebgate on 09.10.13 17:30

Cherry Blossom wrote:Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.

The then four-year-old vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3, 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby restaurant with friends.
Police want to question a man, who according to new witnesses, was seen somewhere around the apartment at the relevant time.

Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "In the next couple of days Scotland Yard are going to put out an artist's impression - an e-fit - of this man, who is clearly being regarded as a suspect - although Scotland Yard tell me that until they identify him and question him, they really don't know where he fits into this jigsaw that they are increasingly putting together.

"On Monday, they are going to be talking more fully about this man
"They will give some idea of what witnesses have said about his behaviour, but he fits into the picture."
More follows... 

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
A man hanging around outside the apartment - haven't we heard that before - how many men were there exactly hanging around outside the apartment and yet it was so quiet they did not notice anything out of the ordinary.  

If and when they track down this man, he might say he saw a man hanging around outside the apartment as well. big grin    Five million and this is what the big reveal is?    You really could not make it up.

They haven't even got an e-pic of him made up yet, considering this has been in the planning for several months it beggars belief.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by plebgate on 09.10.13 17:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Sky News, Martin Brunt saying police to relase new E fit of a man seen near apartment.

No link yet
Thanks CB here is his tweet....

martinbrunt@skymartinbrunt 11m
#madeleine Scot Yard to issue e-fit of new suspect in McCann case, man seen near holiday flat. New appeal for witnesses
Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.
More follows...

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
I suppose if we have in view a genuine suspect of actually abducting Madeleine McCann, then maybe Redwood and the BBC could just about get away with calling this 'new' and 'fresh' evidence (if it is new and fresh, that is, and not based on a report made years ago which the Portuguese police investigated at the time and found to be irrelevant).

If, however, Redwood and the BBC are going to try to convince us that this is 'substantive', 'credible', 'significant', or, as the Express puts it, 'shattering', we will need a heck of a lot more than an E-fit of someone seen 'near the apartment'.

Redwood would need to explain to the viewing public, for example:

* who has come up with this 'sighting' of a man near the apartment?

* when and how many times was this 'possible suspect' seen?

* by whom? - just one person, or more than one person?

* when exactly did the witness first report this 'possible suspect'?

* to whom was it reported? - the PJ, LP, Scotland Yard, Antonio Giminez Raso, Julian Peribanez, Kevin a.k.a. Richard Halligen, Dave Edgar or Arthur Cowley? Or someone else?

* why was this E-fit not released weeks ago?

* what use is it being released on Crimewatch in the U.K. if people in Praia da Luz or on the Algarve will not be able to see it? (unless the Portuguese press and media also release it?)

* is there any evidence beyond a man being seen near the apartment? - is there a shred of actual evidence that he actually entered it - and left with Madleeine?

* what makes this 'possible suspect' any more likely to be involved in Madeleine's disappearance than the 21 others whose faces we have (19 men and 2 women) or the eight descriptions of susepcts by assorted witnesses on pages 370-376 of Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' that we already have so far?

* whether as an experienced Detective Chief Inspector he honestly believes that he has a realistic prospect of identifying and interviewing this 'man seen near the apartment'.  


It reminds me of the release of 'bundleman' by Melissa Little and Brian Kennedy nearly 6 months after Madeleine's reported disappearance.

That achieved front page coverage in nearly all British newspapers.

What else exactly did it achieve?

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Excellent post Tony.   Spot on comments imo.





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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by sallypelt on 09.10.13 17:38

@plebgate wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Sky News, Martin Brunt saying police to relase new E fit of a man seen near apartment.

No link yet
Thanks CB here is his tweet....

martinbrunt@skymartinbrunt 11m
#madeleine Scot Yard to issue e-fit of new suspect in McCann case, man seen near holiday flat. New appeal for witnesses
Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.
More follows...

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
I suppose if we have in view a genuine suspect of actually abducting Madeleine McCann, then maybe Redwood and the BBC could just about get away with calling this 'new' and 'fresh' evidence (if it is new and fresh, that is, and not based on a report made years ago which the Portuguese police investigated at the time and found to be irrelevant).

If, however, Redwood and the BBC are going to try to convince us that this is 'substantive', 'credible', 'significant', or, as the Express puts it, 'shattering', we will need a heck of a lot more than an E-fit of someone seen 'near the apartment'.

Redwood would need to explain to the viewing public, for example:

* who has come up with this 'sighting' of a man near the apartment?

* when and how many times was this 'possible suspect' seen?

* by whom? - just one person, or more than one person?

* when exactly did the witness first report this 'possible suspect'?

* to whom was it reported? - the PJ, LP, Scotland Yard, Antonio Giminez Raso, Julian Peribanez, Kevin a.k.a. Richard Halligen, Dave Edgar or Arthur Cowley? Or someone else?

* why was this E-fit not released weeks ago?

* what use is it being released on Crimewatch in the U.K. if people in Praia da Luz or on the Algarve will not be able to see it? (unless the Portuguese press and media also release it?)

* is there any evidence beyond a man being seen near the apartment? - is there a shred of actual evidence that he actually entered it - and left with Madleeine?

* what makes this 'possible suspect' any more likely to be involved in Madeleine's disappearance than the 21 others whose faces we have (19 men and 2 women) or the eight descriptions of susepcts by assorted witnesses on pages 370-376 of Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' that we already have so far?

* whether as an experienced Detective Chief Inspector he honestly believes that he has a realistic prospect of identifying and interviewing this 'man seen near the apartment'.  


It reminds me of the release of 'bundleman' by Melissa Little and Brian Kennedy nearly 6 months after Madeleine's reported disappearance.

That achieved front page coverage in nearly all British newspapers.

What else exactly did it achieve?

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Excellent post Tony.   Spot on comments imo.




Maybe I am over optimistic, but what if it's a photograph and NOT an e-fit? I can live in hope.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by marconi on 09.10.13 17:42

@plebgate wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are releasing a new picture of a possible suspect.

The then four-year-old vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3, 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby restaurant with friends.
Police want to question a man, who according to new witnesses, was seen somewhere around the apartment at the relevant time.

Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "In the next couple of days Scotland Yard are going to put out an artist's impression - an e-fit - of this man, who is clearly being regarded as a suspect - although Scotland Yard tell me that until they identify him and question him, they really don't know where he fits into this jigsaw that they are increasingly putting together.

"On Monday, they are going to be talking more fully about this man
"They will give some idea of what witnesses have said about his behaviour, but he fits into the picture."
More follows... 

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect
A man hanging around outside the apartment - haven't we heard that before - how many men were there exactly hanging around outside the apartment and yet it was so quiet they did not notice anything out of the ordinary.  

If and when they track down this man, he might say he saw a man hanging around outside the apartment as well. big grin    Five million and this is what the big reveal is?    You really could not make it up.

They haven't even got an e-pic of him made up yet, considering this has been in the planning for several months it beggars belief.
according to press association, the Yard are confirming neither denying about the photo of the new suspect.

are you all as dizzi as I am, after so much information and so many comments?

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by plebgate on 09.10.13 18:00

Breaking news, breaking news

The public are being asked to contact Constables Black and Decker with information re. Jigsaw man e-fit.  big grin

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by tegan1973 on 09.10.13 18:04

Yet another e-fit picture about to be released. Regularly there seem to be either sightings or e-fits and nothing comes of them. Surely they should put the photo out there now or all of the e-fits out together. I don't see the point of the wait.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Hobs on 09.10.13 18:17







As you can see, these are extremly lifelike e fits created by our top class artists showing both front as well as side view as described by jane tanner when she saw the abductor carrying a child away from the apartment.

This suspect is very distinctive especially the nose. he may have changed his hairstyle in the recent past/
We particularly ask that dentists and opticians  pay close attention as you may have a patient with similar eyes or teeth, perhaps you have recently operated on them.

Someone somewhere knows this man, he could be your husband, your father, your brother, your son.

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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by celtclogs on 09.10.13 18:25

@Snifferdog wrote:These ridiculous press releases do not come from Scotland Yard it begs the question as to why Scotland Yard are not investigating the source of the fountain of of bullshit.  IMO Pamalam found out something Huge which goes right to the top of the establishment dung heap and realised that under the present circumstances the pair would never face justice, so she retired.  IMO the pair have info (perhaps even before M's disappearance) on someone/people  the very throne (another name for lavatory).  There is so much disgusting stuff coming to light re  MP's and Others.  IMO Pamalam realised that even though many people did not believe the pair as regards to their daughter she kew that it would be diifficult to convince most that the rot is at e top.  Even if people did come to realise there is not much that can be done about the aforesaid other than a revolution.  IMO we truly are in the grip of evil times  The evidence is everywhere.
clapping clapping well said
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Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.10.13 18:56

Redwood:  Today Crimewatch; tomorrow...The Netherlands.

From 'Missing Madeleine':

Next week on Tuesday 21:30, [15 October], Netherlands 1, the crime watch program Opsporing Verzocht (Detection invited) will be broadcasting the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. This is because of the so called Dutch link. During the program a spokesman for SY will be answering questions.

Long-term planning.

"I have no doubt we can sustain a high profile for Madeleine's disappearance in the long term"

AND THIS:

http://news.sky.com/story/1152167/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-possible-suspect

"There appears to be some doubt as to whether it will be shown in Portugal. Former Met detective Peter Kirkham told Sky News officers were likely to get "hundreds, if not thousands" of phone calls off the back of the world-wide coverage the television appeal would receive."

That should account for another few tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money following up all those calls. The psychics will no doubt be in full flow once again.

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