Re: 'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October

by gbwales 09.10.13 19:02

Hopefully someone can ask what his opinion of Eddie and Keela's extraordinary and complimentary reactions to an apartment, a random car in a line-up and a rental villa might be?

by sallypelt 09.10.13 19:07

he new e-fit of a Madeleine McCann kidnap suspect due to be unveiled could be very significant.

However, there may be a problem with accuracy if this was drawn from a recent description from a witness who saw something five years ago.

You have to take into account the length of time between when the witnesses saw what they saw and when the e-fit was prepared.

E-fits can be very, very useful. I've been involved in a couple of cases where we've found a suspect and there's a striking resemblance.

But if the witness is off target it can send police in the wrong direction.

There are certain rules you have to follow like how long a witness saw the suspect for, how near the suspect was, how clear their view was and how light it was.

If there's more than one witness you can compare their accounts but you still have to work within a legal system. It's got to be able to stand up in court.

There will be someone in the force trained to organise witnesses and glean as much information from them as possible.

What you can do now with e-fits is phenomenal. It's really improved over time. It's much better than the old photo-fits.

There are lots of stones left unturned. It's good Scotland Yard have got the case by the scruff of the neck.

I'm sure there are plenty of leads the Met Police are following that the Portuguese police didn't manage to.

I would like to be optimistic. My gut feeling is she's still alive. The next step will be finding a name and if that name is significant.

If someone comes up with a name, and that person can be placed at the scene or nearby, that's a bonus.

The police may already have a suspect in mind and they want witnesses to come forward and corroborate what one witness has already told them.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-madeleine-mccann-e-fit-kidnap-2355122

by russiandoll 09.10.13 19:07

with thanks to Johanna of swept under the carpet blog......UNTERDENTEPPICHGEKEHRT

Mittwoch, 9. Oktober 2013

Sky News: Madeleine McCann Police Probe Possible Suspect

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1610

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1610

""The Metropolitan Police now has a team of six Portuguese detectives based in Faro who are carrying out inquiries on its behalf.""

Ergo: Scotland Yard has no authority now and in the past to question old or new witnesses within Portugal

""The Portuguese investigation is officially closed but authorities there are backing the Scotland Yard inquiry and officers from both countries will work together in pursuing new leads.""

Ergo: Since the portuguese investigation is still closed no new evidence has entered the criminal process or it would have been opened again.

BUT

""Detectives are to issue an e-fit image of a man seen near the holiday apartment from where the then three-year-old vanished in 2007.""

Ergo: An e-fit can only be created out of witness statements. Had their been new witnesses, the port. investigation would have been reopened.

So which witness has not yet issued an e-fit that is not from Portugal?

""The officer in charge of the case, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, is expected next week to give details of the suspect's movements around the resort of Praia da Luz, Portugal, on the day Madeleine disappeared.""

I know of only one sighting in the files that involves movements of a suspect around the resort on the day Madeleine disappeared. Let me state the corresponding file:

Personal Description:
— (1) the individual was male, Caucasian, light-skinned, between 20/30 years of age, of normal physical build, around 1,70/1,75 metres in height. At the time she saw his face but now cannot remember it. She thinks that he had a clean-shaven face. She does not remember seeing tattoos, scars or earrings. She did not notice his ears. His hair was thick-ish, light brown in colour, short at the back (normal) and a bit longer on the top.
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.

We Will have to Wait and See

by tiny 09.10.13 19:07

plebgate wrote:Breaking news, breaking news

The public are being asked to contact Constables Black and Decker with information re. Jigsaw man e-fit.

by Rufus T 09.10.13 19:13

Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?

Oh dear, oh dear Portia, I see what you mean and I nearly brought back my dinner.

by paddinton 09.10.13 20:04

Rufus T wrote:
Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Oh dear, oh dear Portia, I see what you mean and I nearly brought back my dinner.

I have today's Mail and despite searching, I can't find the article. Can someone please tell me what page it is on?

by Guest 09.10.13 20:06

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Very bizarre!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450832/Victorian-photographs-relatives-posing-alongside-dead-bodies.html

I knew that it was customary to keep bodies in the home until the funeral - and well into the 20th century too - but I didn't know about the use of photography.

Apologies for going off topic.

Paddinton: here's my earlier post.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.10.13 20:22

Belfast Telegraph tonight.

There is palpable excitement by Lindy McDowell at the forthcoming Crimewatch Special on Madeleine:

by Lindy McDowell – 09 October 2013

The holiday apartment complex is just as described in the brochure. In a quiet area of the family resort, within easy walking distance of the sea. The whitewashed blocks are well maintained, the grounds pristine.

The place exudes tranquility. The only sounds, the joyous cries of pupils on a break at the school just over the road. And the yelps of small children splashing around the club's baby pool. Their mothers lie on sunbeds nearby; from the road you get the odd snatch of their chatter and their accents. Mostly English. Some Irish.

None of these women will be unaware of the history of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

Six years ago Madeleine McCann, three going on four, disappeared from this holiday complex.

In those years since, the possible fate of that little girl has haunted, mystified and intrigued millions across the globe.

We all want to know what became of Madeleine. We all have a theory.

And now she's back in the headlines again – or rather the search to find her is.

At the same time as her parents' libel action against a former Portuguese police chief gets under way, British police, involved in a major review, say they have discovered fresh leads.

So they say.

Having trawled through phone records of thousands of people in the resort that evening in May 2007,

I thought they were about to embark on all that?

they believe they have uncovered new information giving a 'clearer picture' of what happened.

In other words, a clearer picture of the abduction. Which no doubt must mean more detail about how the abduction happened and possibly even who might have done it. It will be interesting if they still say it happened between 9.11pm and 9.14pm on 3 May as the witnesses Gerry McCann and Jane Tanner confirm that it did

Next week their new theory

A new theory??? Really?

is to be revealed in a television Crimewatch special.

What could this breakthrough centre on?

In the last sentence it was 'a new theory'. Now we have made a giant leap to 'a breakthrough'. All her readers will make sure they are tuned to BBC1 at 9pm Monday.

Media reports initially suggested a Portuguese paedophile ring.

Actually, the suggestion initially came from Madeleine's parents. And it was a theory that they and their spokespersons promoted to the media.

But this has been replaced with speculation about a gang of burglars said to have been targeting apartments in the area around the time.

An odd one surely. If burglars had disturbed a young child why would they take her with them? In fairness this line is just media speculation.

So someone was lying by suggestjng that this was Scotland Yard's new theory?

Maybe the police do have something more substantial.

Or - maybe they don't.

Six years on technological and forensic methods are more sophisticated. But the trail is six years colder too.

The Portuguese police are reported to be aiding their British counterparts.

Not sure where you got that one from, Linda

The local police's relationship with the McCanns was strained from the outset as we know. Much Portuguese public opinion was scandalised by the revelation that the couple had left their three very young children alone in their beds that night as they dined in a tapas restaurant which is part of the complex but some considerable distance away from their apartment.

by petunia 09.10.13 21:18

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Very bizarre!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450832/Victorian-photographs-relatives-posing-alongside-dead-bodies.html

I knew that it was customary to keep bodies in the home until the funeral - and well into the 20th century too - but I didn't know about the use of photography.

Apologies for going off topic.
Paddinton: here's my earlier post

could somebody please put the photo of the little girl with her eyes open and the one of Maddie with the blue eye make up on together.sorry i am useless with technology.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.10.13 21:21

The wisdom of the Daily Mirror:

Madeleine McCann e-fit of kidnap suspect could be very significant
9 Oct 2013 17:49

There are lots of stones left unturned. It's good Scotland Yard have got the case by the scruff of the neck with a new e-fit.

The new e-fit of a Madeleine McCann kidnap suspect due to be unveiled could be very significant.

However, there may be a problem with accuracy if this was drawn from a recent description from a witness who saw something five years ago.

I wonder if we will ever be told who this witness/these witnesses are and when they first came forward with their information?

You have to take into account the length of time between when the witnesses saw what they saw and when the e-fit was prepared.

E-fits can be very, very useful. I've been involved in a couple of cases where we've found a suspect and there's a striking resemblance.

But if the witness is off target it can send police in the wrong direction.

There are certain rules you have to follow like how long a witness saw the suspect for, how near the suspect was, how clear their view was and how light it was.

If there's more than one witness you can compare their accounts but you still have to work within a legal system. It's got to be able to stand up in court.

There will be someone in the force trained to organise witnesses and glean as much information from them as possible.

What you can do now with e-fits is phenomenal. It's really improved over time. It's much better than the old photo-fits.

I'm sure there are plenty of leads the Met Police are following that the Portuguese police didn't manage to.

I would like to be optimistic. My gut feeling is she's still alive. The next step will be finding a name and if that name is significant.

If someone comes up with a name, and that person can be placed at the scene or nearby, that's a bonus.

The police may already have a suspect in mind and they want witnesses to come forward and corroborate what one witness has already told them.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-madeleine-mccann-e-fit-kidnap-2355122#ixzz2hG2uGS8z
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

by Liz Eagles 09.10.13 21:33

Tony Bennett wrote:The wisdom of the Daily Mirror:

Madeleine McCann e-fit of kidnap suspect could be very significant
9 Oct 2013 17:49

There are lots of stones left unturned. It's good Scotland Yard have got the case by the scruff of the neck with a new e-fit.

The new e-fit of a Madeleine McCann kidnap suspect due to be unveiled could be very significant.

However, there may be a problem with accuracy if this was drawn from a recent description from a witness who saw something five years ago.

I wonder if we will ever be told who this witness/these witnesses are and when they first came forward with their information?

You have to take into account the length of time between when the witnesses saw what they saw and when the e-fit was prepared.

E-fits can be very, very useful. I've been involved in a couple of cases where we've found a suspect and there's a striking resemblance.

But if the witness is off target it can send police in the wrong direction.

There are certain rules you have to follow like how long a witness saw the suspect for, how near the suspect was, how clear their view was and how light it was.

If there's more than one witness you can compare their accounts but you still have to work within a legal system. It's got to be able to stand up in court.

There will be someone in the force trained to organise witnesses and glean as much information from them as possible.

What you can do now with e-fits is phenomenal. It's really improved over time. It's much better than the old photo-fits.

I'm sure there are plenty of leads the Met Police are following that the Portuguese police didn't manage to.

I would like to be optimistic. My gut feeling is she's still alive. The next step will be finding a name and if that name is significant.

If someone comes up with a name, and that person can be placed at the scene or nearby, that's a bonus.

The police may already have a suspect in mind and they want witnesses to come forward and corroborate what one witness has already told them.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-madeleine-mccann-e-fit-kidnap-2355122#ixzz2hG2uGS8z
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

This article was penned by Trevor Marriott, a retired British Police murder squad detective.

Trevor has written a book on Jack the Ripper 'a 21st century investigation'

http://www.trevormarriott.co.uk/

..................................................................................

I hope he's solved it, we've been waiting for sooooo long.

by Guest 09.10.13 21:42

petunia wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Very bizarre!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450832/Victorian-photographs-relatives-posing-alongside-dead-bodies.html

I knew that it was customary to keep bodies in the home until the funeral - and well into the 20th century too - but I didn't know about the use of photography.

Apologies for going off topic.
Paddinton: here's my earlier post
could somebody please put the photo of the little girl with her eyes open and the one of Maddie with the blue eye make up on together.sorry i am useless with technology.

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 M210

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 M310

by paddinton 09.10.13 21:44

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
Portia wrote:Please have a look at todays Mail. There is a very odd article on dead-people photography from Victorian times

Girl in the 6th row from the top (l) remind you of someone else, with blue mascara and black eyes?
Very bizarre!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450832/Victorian-photographs-relatives-posing-alongside-dead-bodies.html

I knew that it was customary to keep bodies in the home until the funeral - and well into the 20th century too - but I didn't know about the use of photography.

Apologies for going off topic.
Paddinton: here's my earlier post.

Thanks, macabre but interesting. Seems to be available online but not in the actual paper.

by sallypelt 09.10.13 21:53

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 Sky-06-08-08-PICTURE-4_small

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 Sky-06-08-08-PICTURE-3_small

Could these be the photofits they are talking about? I believe these were produced from the evidence given by the late Mrs Fenn's niece Caroline T (can't remember her surname)

Edited to add the surname is TRANMER.

by Ollie1 09.10.13 23:17

sallypelt wrote:

Could these be the photofits they are talking about? I believe these were produced from the evidence given by the late Mrs Fenn's niece Caroline T (can't remember her surname)

Edited to add the surname is TRANMER.

IIRC she said the man she saw had blonde hair. I think she was shown a photo fit but said that wasn't the one she had done.

by sallypelt 09.10.13 23:25

Ollie1 wrote:
sallypelt wrote:

Could these be the photofits they are talking about? I believe these were produced from the evidence given by the late Mrs Fenn's niece Caroline T (can't remember her surname)

Edited to add the surname is TRANMER.
IIRC she said the man she saw had blonde hair. I think she was shown a photo fit but said that wasn't the one she had done.

I think the second one is more like the person that she saw. She said "he had a longer face" to the one that she was shown first of all

by **Tony Bennett** 09.10.13 23:29

I think that so far we have been shown 21 different artists' impressions, sketches, e-fits or whatever of various 'suspects', 'persons of interest ' and 'people we want to eliminate from our enquiries' etc. etc.

19 have been men, two of them women - including a Victoria Beckham-lookalike whose e-fit didn't look anything like Posh Spice.

It would be jolly good if Redwood, while he's on the telly, could give us a quick breeze through all of them and tell us which ones (if any) they are still looking for.

Are we looking for bundleman, Smith man, Cooperman...who?

by Seek truth 09.10.13 23:40

Tony Bennett wrote:I think that so far we have been shown 21 different artists' impressions, sketches, e-fits or whatever of various 'suspects', 'persons of interest ' and 'people we want to eliminate from our enquiries' etc. etc.

19 have been men, two of them women - including a Victoria Beckham-lookalike whose e-fit didn't look anything like Posh Spice.

It would be jolly good if Redwood, while he's on the telly, could give us a quick breeze through all of them and tell us which ones (if any) they are still looking for.

Are we looking for bundleman, Smith man, Cooperman...who?

You have found who it is. It shows at the end of bundlemAN, smith mAN, coopermAN.

The MccAN !

sarcastic

by sallypelt 09.10.13 23:44

Seek truth wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:I think that so far we have been shown 21 different artists' impressions, sketches, e-fits or whatever of various 'suspects', 'persons of interest ' and 'people we want to eliminate from our enquiries' etc. etc.

19 have been men, two of them women - including a Victoria Beckham-lookalike whose e-fit didn't look anything like Posh Spice.

It would be jolly good if Redwood, while he's on the telly, could give us a quick breeze through all of them and tell us which ones (if any) they are still looking for.

Are we looking for bundleman, Smith man, Cooperman...who?
You have found who it is. It shows at the end of bundlemAN, smith mAN, coopermAN.

The MccAN !

Top photofit reminds me of Obrien

by maebee 09.10.13 23:47

Trying to upload the pic of Madeleine with the blue eye shadow but can't do it. IMO,This is what it's all about Sad

by russiandoll 09.10.13 23:51

moi aussi

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 Robl_small

hair too long though and parting wrong side, but there is a resemblance

by russiandoll 09.10.13 23:59

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 Kate-and-gerry-mccann-pic-pa-wire-105205067-195058

look at the proportions of the face - forehead, cheeks, tip of nose to mouth and jawline.

The hair is slightly different, but it is still a short haircut. And the ears are similar.

by russiandoll 10.10.13 0:14

Mirror :

Madeleine McCann: Release of first suspect e-fit by British police takes investigation to new level
9 Oct 2013 22:28
New hope for Gerry and Kate McCann as Met Police are believed to be focusing their investigation on one man

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 CrimeBoard-2355876

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 CrimeBoard-2355876

Who is he? Timeline of a key suspect

Six years after Madeleine McCann vanished, the search for the culprits has taken a major leap forward.
It emerged yesterday that British detectives are preparing to release their first e-fit since taking up the hunt for her.
The image is of a man who is a new suspect in the probe.
After receiving information from fresh witnesses, Met police are believed to be focusing their investigation on the man.
[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/madeleine mccann]Madeleine was three in 2007[/url] when she vanished from her family’s holiday apartment in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz while her parents Kate and Gerry were at a nearby restaurant.
The e-fit created by Scotland Yard, which launched its probe three months ago, is expected to be featured on Monday night during a Crimewatch appeal for help to track down whoever took the girl.
The Met team, led by Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, has worked with the BBC TV show on a reconstruction of the events leading up to the disappearance.
Chiefs would not comment on the significance of the e-fit, but vowed to “release the relevant material at the relevant time”.
The force added it was planning “a series of public appeals” in various countries.
A statement said: “We are not prepared to discuss, comment or speculate on the content of the upcoming appeal in relation to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
“This has been weeks in the planning and each element of the investigation must be set into the overall context of the appeal.”
The man officers are hunting was apparently near the flat at around the time Madeleine vanished.
This potential breakthrough is believed to have been warmly welcomed by the McCanns who are confident the search for their daughter is progressing.

In the years since Madeleine was taken, Kate and Gerry, both 45, of Rothley, Leics, have released various e-fits of potential suspects.

They included a man with buck teeth seen at the flat in the days before the McCanns arrived.
In 2011 the Met launched Operation Grange, a review of Madeleine’s case, after complaints about the efforts of Portuguese police.
Then in July this year the review became a full-blown Scotland Yard inquiry.
Six Portuguese detectives based in Faro, in southern Portugal, are helping the Met by carrying out investigations on its behalf.

by **Hobs** 10.10.13 1:13

'Substantive' evidence promised on 14 October - Page 5 Photof12

You can see the resemblance here quite clearly and then there is also George Harrison who looks like kate with a dodgy moustache

by ultimaThule 10.10.13 1:52

aquila wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:The wisdom of the Daily Mirror:

Madeleine McCann e-fit of kidnap suspect could be very significant
9 Oct 2013 17:49

There are lots of stones left unturned. It's good Scotland Yard have got the case by the scruff of the neck with a new e-fit.

The new e-fit of a Madeleine McCann kidnap suspect due to be unveiled could be very significant.

However, there may be a problem with accuracy if this was drawn from a recent description from a witness who saw something five years ago.

I wonder if we will ever be told who this witness/these witnesses are and when they first came forward with their information?

You have to take into account the length of time between when the witnesses saw what they saw and when the e-fit was prepared.

E-fits can be very, very useful. I've been involved in a couple of cases where we've found a suspect and there's a striking resemblance.

But if the witness is off target it can send police in the wrong direction.

There are certain rules you have to follow like how long a witness saw the suspect for, how near the suspect was, how clear their view was and how light it was.

If there's more than one witness you can compare their accounts but you still have to work within a legal system. It's got to be able to stand up in court.

There will be someone in the force trained to organise witnesses and glean as much information from them as possible.

What you can do now with e-fits is phenomenal. It's really improved over time. It's much better than the old photo-fits.

I'm sure there are plenty of leads the Met Police are following that the Portuguese police didn't manage to.

I would like to be optimistic. My gut feeling is she's still alive. The next step will be finding a name and if that name is significant.

If someone comes up with a name, and that person can be placed at the scene or nearby, that's a bonus.

The police may already have a suspect in mind and they want witnesses to come forward and corroborate what one witness has already told them.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-madeleine-mccann-e-fit-kidnap-2355122#ixzz2hG2uGS8z
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
This article was penned by Trevor Marriott, a retired British Police murder squad detective.

Trevor has written a book on Jack the Ripper 'a 21st century investigation'

http://www.trevormarriott.co.uk/

..................................................................................

I hope he's solved it, we've been waiting for sooooo long.

There will be someone in the force trained to organise witnesses and glean as much information from them as possible.

Only one officer in the force organising witnesses and gleaning info from them? Blimey, I bet they're racking up the overtime smilie