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Abduction...a quick look at the debris

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Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Chimaera on 28.08.13 13:44

What an unedifying experience that was.  For those unlucky enough to have seen the Kepharel abduction thread let it be a salutary lesson in pack rule, and bigotry from a website supposedly in search of ‘the truth’.  In much the same way, I would venture to add, as in the spirit of Gerry McCann’s having no problem with purporting a theory:  And what for? Because I suggested that abduction was a possibility.  That’s not the issue here though.
 
The attack on me was vituperous and sustained and led by, of all people administrators and senior forum members to whom others look for guidance, but worst of all it was entirely wrong in every respect, a disgraceful episode, and wreaked of paranoia.  This is not a healthy forum for a free thinking spirit in search of the truth.  We all know now that I am not a Daily Mirror journalist; I wish that I were only because the money would come in really handy.  As a rough guide, for those who may not know, I am just a pensioner and full time carer for my wife, with three grandchildren whom I adore and give me a reason to get up every morning. An ordinary Joe like most others on here who happen to be able to string a few words together.
 
I suggested to Tony Bennett that, in being gagged with no means of redress himself, he might have some sympathy with someone summarily banned from a forum of discussion without any recourse to defend themselves.  His response was shocking, all the more so because of the esteem I have always held him in for his stand against the McCanns and search for the truth. How or whether he justifies his actions and his manipulation of site administrators here to do his bidding is a matter for him. And of course Chimaera was an alt of Kepheral, without any other option how else could I put my point of view; defend myself, but I have to put my hands up to being taken aback and off balance by the sheer hatred and intensity of the attack, and the direction from which it came.  Am I sorry for the deceit, of course I am, but at least I was able to ask Tigger one last question.
 

Whether this post is wooshed, I wouldn’t like to venture a guess.  Whether it receives anything like a fair hearing; I fear the worst, but for some people out there, those responses, should there be any, will be a very telling commentary on the character of this site. NFWTD if I'm not banned for this, I do promise never ever to come back...ever, no flouncing this time. winkwink

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by tigger on 28.08.13 13:54

There, there, don't take on so. Crying is only going to make you look unattractive. Have a cup of tea....spit coffee

I don't think I saw your question. I only posted that out of a large number of sites inspected by the dogs there were 13 alerts all closely connected to the McCanns.

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by jeanmonroe on 28.08.13 14:00

Chimaera:

This is a forum that is aimed at finding out what happened to a 3 year old child.

We'd all be delighted if Madeleine were 'found' tomorrow.

However, with her parents and their friends ever changing stories about that night's events we are suspicious about their versions.

Why would we blindly believe things they have said in relation to their daughter's 'disappearance' when they themselves do not answer questions put to them by police?

No mother, on this Earth, would ask for the investigation, or at least not contest, vehemently, the case of her 'missing' child to be 'closed/shelved'
Kate McCann did!

And she has studiously avoided asking for the case to be re-opened, personally, which is her right, and just says 'if the case is re-opened, or not, it dosen't matter'

But you would have already known that she said that.

Have K&G really left no stone unturned, in your opinion?

Have they co-operated absolutely fully with any investigation authority investigating their child's disappearance, in your opinion?

I'd hope your mother wouldn't behave like that if you went 'missing'

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.08.13 14:10

@Chimaera wrote:What an unedifying experience that was.  For those unlucky enough to have seen the Kepharel abduction thread let it be a salutary lesson in pack rule, and bigotry from a website supposedly in search of ‘the truth’.  In much the same way, I would venture to add, as in the spirit of Gerry McCann’s having no problem with purporting a theory:  And what for? Because I suggested that abduction was a possibility.  That’s not the issue here though.
 
The attack on me was vituperous and sustained and led by, of all people administrators and senior forum members to whom others look for guidance, but worst of all it was entirely wrong in every respect, a disgraceful episode, and wreaked of paranoia.  This is not a healthy forum for a free thinking spirit in search of the truth.  We all know now that I am not a Daily Mirror journalist; I wish that I were only because the money would come in really handy.  As a rough guide, for those who may not know, I am just a pensioner and full time carer for my wife, with three grandchildren whom I adore and give me a reason to get up every morning. An ordinary Joe like most others on here who happen to be able to string a few words together.
 
I suggested to Tony Bennett that, in being gagged with no means of redress himself, he might have some sympathy with someone summarily banned from a forum of discussion without any recourse to defend themselves.  His response was shocking, all the more so because of the esteem I have always held him in for his stand against the McCanns and search for the truth. How or whether he justifies his actions and his manipulation of site administrators here to do his bidding is a matter for him. And of course Chimaera was an alt of Kepheral, without any other option how else could I put my point of view; defend myself, but I have to put my hands up to being taken aback and off balance by the sheer hatred and intensity of the attack, and the direction from which it came.  Am I sorry for the deceit, of course I am, but at least I was able to ask Tigger one last question.
 
Whether this post is wooshed, I wouldn’t like to venture a guess.  Whether it receives anything like a fair hearing; I fear the worst, but for some people out there, those responses, should there be any, will be a very telling commentary on the character of this site. NFWTD if I'm not banned for this, I do promise never ever to come back...ever, no flouncing this time. 
 I for one will not call for you to be banned (again).

I relied on information from others that you were Alan Selby, journalist, my mistake, I should have checked to make sure.

I believe the key reason you were banned is because of doubts about your sincerity; you do hold yourself out as a bona fide researcher, but a number of issues in your posts gave reason to doubt that claim. I am sorry if we misunderstood you.

You claim to be a 'free thinking spirit in search of the truth'. I am doubtful.

Your words about this forum are very harsh - and I dare say that those on here who did not agree to your being banned, might share that view.  

I think your various posts as 'Kepharel' are still here to view if members want to examine some of the other strange (IMO) ideas you have come up with.

In case any one feels deprived of the ability to consider the post that resulted in your banning, I have saved it, and here it is:

QUOTE

If my opinions on anything have changed on this forum since becoming an occasional contributor it is the value and reliance placed upon the alerts from Eddie and Keela, and the subsequent, possibly confused, interpretation of the forensic reports of the FSS by the PJ. While I cannot get around the fact of the alerts, it has eaten away at my confidence as to what they were actually alerting to. Blood and cadaver, well that is a certainty. But as to whose then I have become sceptical, especially as there was no strong evidence from the PJ’s own forensics to counter the tentative conclusions of the FSS.

I am NOT saying that the value of the dog alerts has dismantled a persuasive piece of evidence against the McCanns, as it is just as possible for the latter to have planted degenerated and corrupted signals themselves for any well trained forensic dogs to find. What it does do, in my opinion is to pull abduction as a theory into a more viable possibility, for which a wide range of motives might be evaluated, including premeditation on the part of the parents: Consequently it brings to the table a stronger possibility that MBM may actually be alive.

Much also has been discussed on this forum of the Tanner sighting, most of which has been used to discredit the possibility of abduction based upon ‘impossible’ timelines; and consequentially the improbability of sedating within those timelines to render MBM compliant etc.. Yet if we discount the Tanner sighting, as the PJ certainly did, and include sedation at a much earlier time in the evening for the 3rd May via Nurofen administered by the parents, then timelines, roller shutters and all the rest of it may prove that the pillars of belief that abduction could not have occurred, and therefore she must have died in the apartment, are built upon sandier soil than first thought. Leaving timelines and roller shutters with a narrower interpretation of a ‘staged’ abduction reduces their importance to one of a theory of premeditation only.

I still believe she died in the apartment, but with an ever so slightly diminished conviction.


UNQUOTE

As far as you're being a disinterested 'free spirit' dedicated only to the honest search for the truth, the jury is out so far as I'm concerned.

I'm not sure where you get the 'hatred' from, this is not a forum of people who nurse any hatred towards others.

So, in conclusion, I hope your wife, you and the grandchildren are able to enjoy this lovely weather, and now that you've established yourself as an honest, straightforward seeker after truth, please carry on.

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by coppernob on 28.08.13 14:31

There used to be another poster with the name Chimera , google  Chimera and McCann and they will appear ,the main forum seems to be studies of diseased minds.
When I googled the two up popped a load of links to youtube videos for the Oedipus chimera strain and Madeleine McCann what's that all about?
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.08.13 14:48

Kepharel/Chimaera on Metodo 3:

"Metodo 3 were unlucky, not corrupt"

1 July this year, quote Kepharel:

Metodo 3 was subsequently wound up following allegations of wire tapping. That is no indicator to me that this was a corrupt enterprise, just an unfortunate one. Businesses hire detective agencies to spy on the opposition all the time; that is what detective agencies with corporate clients get hired for, only for the most part they don’t get caught. In that sense Metodo 3 is no better or worse than the vast majority in their industry.

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 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by jeanmonroe on 28.08.13 15:24

Is Chimaera still here?

I'd just like to ask him/her a question.

Would there have been any 'abduction' if the McCanns hadn't gone to the Tapas, out of sight, and they had actually stayed in the apartment with their three very, very, young children?

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Guest on 28.08.13 17:22

I'm glad that Chimaera has remembered the excellent command of English which he had as Kepharel.

Some people are such high maintenance aren't they?

However, I welcome him back. Did he intend to be a fish though rather than a chimera?

Everyone - well, almost everyone - deserves a second chance.
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.08.13 17:38

More from the Kepharel archives:


(to 'plebgate')  "I agree that comments on this Forum are well considered by the hard core of regular contributors, and because they are regular contributors and there are relatively few of them in comparison with the total membership I think we can call them ‘opinion formers’ and to that extent guide the ethos by which the Forum functions".


As for playing games?  No I don't play games on these forums.  I have just spent almost an entire day yesterday using any free time I have to analyse and précis into a readable report that disingenuous master-class that is the David Payne rogatory interview on the McCannfiles website.  And I shall continue the task today.  That must be commitment in anybody's language, remembering it is over 40,000 words and 72 sheets of almost indecipherable A4. So again...I don't play games.


Ah! The dogs!! I can’t dispute the dog alerts, it’s impossible, so there must have been a cadaver in the apartment, and blood.  Or was there?  If you can’t fool the dogs, then how about the predictive instincts of human beings who interpret the data. The question has always been if not Madeleine’s body, who could it have been?  No one else had ever died in the apartment so what other explanation can there be?   What you need to alert Sniffer dogs is the scent of a cadaver and the scent of blood, not necessarily that of Madeleine McCann though. But would a body have to have been physically in the apartment to obtain the alerts. So who has access to cadavers and blood?  Well there are morticians in Funeral parlours, Policemen and Firemen of course, Paramedics, and maybe Cardiovascular Consultants and G.P’s too.

Out of that lot who could knowingly obtain a blood sample that they could be 100 % confident was too degraded to provide meaningful DNA analysis: Maybe just Cardiovascular Consultants and G.P’s.  So short of packing a dead body in the holiday suitcase and getting it through HM Customs, which would be risky even at East Midlands airport, how do you bring such things with you?  For those with a weak stomach I might suggest a hand towel or such that had been left on a dead body in a Mortuary for a few days would provide the Cadaver odour, or for those of a stronger constitution, a small body part; a finger, toe, ear.(Yeuch!! But they are surgeons or G.P’s remember).  For contaminated blood, just a small glass phial will do.

Why you would want to do such a thing is a whole new topic.  While I have the complete scenario in my mind, I have only typed it up to here.  The reason is that if someone can derail any of these arguments to my own satisfaction, especially the dogs, then anything I might subsequently have to say is invalid and not worth the effort of typing.  So I am going to leave it at this point for a few days to see if anyone can convince me that it ain’t worth the trouble.  Fingers crossed…

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Woofer on 28.08.13 18:39

Could someone tell me where is Kepharel`s/Chimeara`s post from yesterday - I can`t find it?

Really - I cannot see what all the fuss is about - what is wrong with the above archived writings from Kepharel - he is raising some interesting points.  Surely this forum doesn`t want to be so narrow minded that it only allows one track thinking followed by nasty childish comments to anyone who questions things - it loses this forum all credibility it might have.   Kepharel certainly plays devil`s advocate sometimes - isn`t that a good thing?
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.08.13 19:01

@Woofer wrote:Could someone tell me where is Kepharel`s/Chimeara`s post from yesterday - I can`t find it?

REPLY: In bold above, in my post of 2.10pm

Really - I cannot see what all the fuss is about - what is wrong with the above archived writings from Kepharel - he is raising some interesting points.  Surely this forum doesn`t want to be so narrow minded that it only allows one track thinking followed by nasty childish comments to anyone who questions things - it loses this forum all credibility it might have.   Kepharel certainly plays devil`s advocate sometimes - isn`t that a good thing?

REPLY: I guess that's a matter of opinion. He has on a number of occasions developed the possibility of cadaver scent having been 'planted' by someone or other. Some may regard that as 'interesting', or even 'useful devil's advocacy'. It is not a theory given any credence at all by anyone else. I'm not sure quite why he keeps returning to it. The McCanns explain away the dogs' alerts on the basis that they can't be trusted and are 'incredibly unreliable', and/or that the dogs were responding to the handler's 'conscious or unconscious signals'. Chimaera invites people to see if they can 'derail' his arguments that somebody might have brought into Apartment G5A a towel smelling of a human corpse or brought a 'dead' finger, toe or ear. If that's called sensible debating, with someone who says he just wants 'honest debate to get to the truth', then I'm a Dutchman.

What I will say is that Chimaera spent some considerable time on here writing up a 'precis' of the evidence of some of the witnesses, e.g. David Payne and Dianne Webster. And that was certainly meant to be helpful. If those 'precis' or analyses have indeed proved useful to anyone here, then credit where credit is due.

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by plebgate on 28.08.13 19:07

We have had many a poster going back 6 years who has played devil's advocate and their theories never add up. Gets boring after a while(for me anyway).

I also do not like Kepharel/Chimera's wording about senior members giving guidance to others. How many more times - posters here are not guiding anybody - they are posting their own views. Others can agree or disagree that's up to them. What makes somebody's a senior member, the number of posts, the length of time they have been registered or maybe everyone here is equal with a mind of their own.

Kepharel's posts have the same message only worded differently and it seems to me the main message is that "senior members" on this forum have the power to influence others. Rot as far as I am concerned.




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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Guest on 28.08.13 19:08

@ Tony: A Dutchman? I'll try not to be offended ... winkwink
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Guest on 28.08.13 19:41

Oops! Apologies to all our Dutch contributors.

In the UK there is a saying that something (thinking of Tapas Mob statements here!) is Double Dutch if it's incomprehensible - what is an equivalent expression in the Netherlands?
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Guest on 28.08.13 19:46

I think I may know all of the negatively loaded uses of the word "Dutch" [going back centuries, when Great Britain and the Netherlands were competitors, rather than friends ..]: like e.g. "going Dutch", "Dutch courage" AND "Dutchman", the latter one of which I cannot imagine Tony would refer himself to ...
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.08.13 20:21

Cambridge University dictionary of phrases:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm a Dutchman

UK humorous / old-fashioned

Definition

Said after describing or hearing something that is very obviously not true:

Example:

If that's his real hair, then I'm a Dutchman.

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 Daily Mail journalist Daniel Bates wrote: “Kate and Gerry McCann have released a new picture of their daughter Madeleine as they prepare to commemorate tomorrow’s third anniversary of her disappearance. The photo shows her when she was three after a raid on the dressing-up box. She has a pink bow in her hair and a gold bead necklace and is wearing blue eyeshadow. It was taken weeks before the fateful family holiday to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished”

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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by tigger on 28.08.13 20:26

@plebgate wrote:We have had many a poster going back 6 years who has played devil's advocate and their theories never add up.   Gets boring after a while(for me anyway).

I also do not like Kepharel/Chimera's wording about senior members giving guidance to others.    How many more times - posters here are not guiding anybody - they are posting their own views.   Others can agree or disagree that's up to them.   What makes somebody's a senior member, the number of posts, the length of time they have been registered or maybe everyone here is equal with a mind of their own.

Kepharel's posts have the same message only worded differently and it seems to me the main message is that  "senior members" on this forum have the power to influence others.  Rot as far as I am concerned.



Thank you! You've twigged the technique of sowing discord where there was none.
Kepharel's pick and mix approach only serves to muddy the waters. Especially when he posts reams of old information . To a newcomer this may look authorative, even like an in-depth analysis when imo it is nothing of the sort.


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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by aquila on 28.08.13 20:40

@tigger wrote:
@plebgate wrote:We have had many a poster going back 6 years who has played devil's advocate and their theories never add up.   Gets boring after a while(for me anyway).

I also do not like Kepharel/Chimera's wording about senior members giving guidance to others.    How many more times - posters here are not guiding anybody - they are posting their own views.   Others can agree or disagree that's up to them.   What makes somebody's a senior member, the number of posts, the length of time they have been registered or maybe everyone here is equal with a mind of their own.

Kepharel's posts have the same message only worded differently and it seems to me the main message is that  "senior members" on this forum have the power to influence others.  Rot as far as I am concerned.



Thank you!  You've twigged the technique of sowing discord where there was none.
Kepharel's pick and mix approach only serves to muddy the waters. Especially when he posts reams of old information . To a newcomer this may look authorative, even like an in-depth analysis when imo it is nothing of the sort.

@plebgate, @tigger, I second your opinions.

I'm not sorry to see this type of cunning behaviour leave the forum.
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Re: Abduction...a quick look at the debris

Post by plebgate on 28.08.13 20:47

@ Tigger, yes I agree, it was posting reams of old info. which was already available, but he/she complained when a link pointing to an existing thread on his/her point was given.


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