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Is Madeline McCann still alive?

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Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by sallypelt on 13.08.13 18:22

I don't know if this has been posted



http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/08/12/madeline-mccann-missing-nancy-grace-mysteries-case-background


Watch “Nancy Grace Mysteries,” Friday night at 8 & 11 p.m. ET on HLN for the very latest developments in the search for Madeline McCann. 
It was the evening of May 3, 2007, at a luxury resort in Praia da Luz, Portugal, when 3-year-old Madeleine McCann vanished from her parent’s apartment while on holiday with her family.
Around 8:30 p.m. that night, Madeleine’s parents, Gerry & Kate McCann, left their daughter and her twin siblings alone in a bedroom of their apartment, joining several friends at the resort’s tapas restaurant just a two minute walk away.
Fearing their children could be trapped should a fire break-out, the McCann’s decided not to lock their doors. Instead, the parents opted to take turns checking on the sleeping children every 30 minutes. 
Around 10 p.m. that night, Madeline’s mother went to check the apartment and found a shutter ajar and the bedroom window wide open.
The 3-year-old girl was just nine days shy of her 4th birthday when she vanished without a trace.
In 2007, Gerry and Kate McCann were named suspects in their daughter’s disappearance, but were cleared of any wrongdoing the following year.
While massive searches for the little girl have turned up few clues, Scotland Yard Detectives announced on July 4 they believe the little girl could still be alive, according to a report from People.com.
Six years later, could Madeline McCann still be alive?

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by PEANUT66 on 13.08.13 18:39

Can't believe how they are able to spin this as they do to the American public. I travel to the States at least twice a year and have always watched Nancy Grace ......My opinion has now changed about  the way she reports things!

No better than NOTW...Just my humble opinion of course.

So we now have to deal with American propaganda as well as British!

Justice for Madeleine Beth McCann.

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Hobs on 13.08.13 18:58

I can't watch nancy grace with her "bombshell" and shouting and bossiness.
A She also reminds me of a  blonde version of Elvira, mistress of the dark big grin
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by PEANUT66 on 13.08.13 19:04

Had to laugh at that Hobs.

Out of interest Do you have a blog...Cos I really love reading your posts?

P.S.  She also has twins  sarcastic

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by russiandoll on 13.08.13 21:28

quote sallypelt "  Fearing their children could be trapped should a fire break-out, the McCann’s decided not to lock their doors. Instead, the parents opted to take turns checking on the sleeping children every 30 minutes"

 So, it is plausible that a parent would consider the possibility of fire and still go out and leave 3 children alone. How were the twins meant to exit the apartment? I guess Maddie, the babysitter, was going to pick them up from their cots one at a time and lead them out to safety. No matter that she would not
be able to reach in the travel cots to touch the twins, she was very grown up for her age and would have devised a way to escape with her siblings.
  What a load of old tripe.
 
 Also, if there was no fear of fire and they locked the patio doors, would that have meant no checking, because checking is mentioned as an alternative by NG due to unlocked doors.

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by MissesWillYa on 13.08.13 21:41

I'm in the US and I consider her to be a blight on the landscape. I can't stand her and I hate the way she spins cases for her show. I don't understand how anyone can report on this case and still make it seem like they are victims. If people like us in the forum can do so much research into the actual facts, it's shocking when a "journalist" won't. Instead, she'll scream and rant and rave incoherently. Elvira was a perfect description, Hobs. You are so right.
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by lj on 13.08.13 23:59

Nancy disGrace is like a rabid coyote, with my apologies to coyotes.

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by aiyoyo on 14.08.13 3:24

In answer to the title, in one simple word NO.
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Guest on 14.08.13 8:27

I wonder whether Pat Brown will be contributing to the programme.
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Kepharel on 14.08.13 10:17

My awkward squad post to ruffle feathers. smilie 
 
Well, maybe she is after all.  It seems to me that the ‘impossible’ timing issues surrounding the disappearance all revolve around the Jane Tanner sighting.  As Dr Martin Roberts so succinctly puts it:
 
"Whether by accident or design, the 'Tanner sighting' has become the maypole around which all the other colourful threads in the McCann fairytale are entwined."
 
The trouble is, the Tanner sighting has been dismissed by almost everyone. I would offer:
 
Paulo Cristavao’s book Chapter 2.
 
"Two English people, one of them Jane Tanner, say that they saw a man carrying a child that could be the missing infant. The description given by Jane is very vague and carries a factor of doubt, as Gerry and a friend whom he was talking to, standing on the same location as Jane when she passed, saw nobody. The friend confirmed this.
At the time that Jane says she saw the man, Gerry had just left the apartment. Francisco cannot conceive that an abductor would have been waiting for this 'visitor' in order to enter through the door or the window, right under the father's nose, to carry out the child and to walk around with her in his arms, down the streets.
Francisco can only conclude that this was not how it happened. A criminal would not risk taking the child under such circumstances, so many variables out of his control. He would need five or six accomplices to control the situation, which is simply too much trouble to abduct a small girl."
 
Amaral’s book Chapter 22
 
"The witness statements raise a great number of inaccuracies, inconsistencies and contradictions. Jane Tanner's witness statement in favour of the theory of abduction is probably false: little by little it has lost all credibility because of successive modifications introduced by Jane, modifications that have ended up invalidating it."
 
PJ Final Report
 
". The physical, real and effective, proximity between JANE TANNER,
GERALD McCANN and JEREMY WILKINS, at the moment when
the former passed them, and which coincided with the sighting of the
supposed suspect, carrying a child. It results, from our
understanding, as unusual that neither GERALD McCANN nor
JEREMY WILKINS did not see her, nor the alleged abductor, despite
the small dimensions of the space;"
 
In Michael McCleans’s book we have the following:
 
"Taking into account the travelling time, he has around one minute and twenty seconds in which to achieve the first seven items on the list.
 
The third objection is that of considering median times. In other words if it is supposed that Gerry McCann’s talk with Jeremy Wilkins was 5 minutes, and that Jane Tanner passed them at the very end of their conversation, so that Gerry returned to the Tapas bar immediately she had passed, then the total apartment time for the abductor might be extended to nearly four
minutes."
 
The trouble with all this is that you can’t have it both ways.  If Tanner’s statements are to be dismissed, the opportunity for abduction becomes almost leisurely time-wise, as indicated in the Rogatory Application letter:

"If there was the participation of third parties in the minor's disappearance: she shall have been removed from the apartment between 09:15 p.m. (approximately)-the time her father saw her-and 10:05 p.m. (approximately)-the time her mother noticed she was missing.
 
If her parents actually participated in the disappearance: the minor may have been removed between 05:35 p.m. and 10:05 p.m. (in case DAVID PAYNE has not seen her around 07:00 p.m.; if he did, the time of her disappearance should be between 07:00 p.m. and 10:05 p.m.).
 
- Regarding all that has been found out, the facts indicate that MADELEINE McCANN's disappearance took place, on the night of May 3rd, 2007, between 05.35 p.m. and 10.05 p.m., from inside the apartment 5A, in the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, used by the McCann couple and their three children."

and if neither Gerry nor Wilkins saw her, what chance them seeing a possible abductor 50 metres up the road.
 
As for how long it takes to snatch a child, consideration should be given to the assumption that MM was sedated by the abductor to make things easier, which is a big debating point in McClean’s book.  Remember that The McCann’s brought their own medication on holiday with them, as itemised in Gerry’s Rogatory, their being Calpol, Nurofen for adults and children, Losec for Gerry’s bad tummy, and Terfenadine, an antihistamine that was withdrawn from the American Market in 1998.
 
While Calpol, being merely paracetomol in liquid form has no drowsiness effects, the Health Central website tells us that Nurofen in large amounts causes drowsiness, as does the antihistamine.  The sedating need not have been the work of an abductor, but of the parents themselves. Entering an apartment through open sliding doors, picking up a child and exiting again would surely only take seconds.  Try putting yourself in her place.  You are not quite 4 years old, remember, drowsy through sleep and/or sedation.  A man approaches and says your mum and dad have asked him to bring you to them because they have a big surprise waiting for you.  No fighting there then.
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 14.08.13 11:18

Kepharel, that's pretty neatly put and all things considered sounds entirely reasonable. However, the other matters I'll list below are what throw reasonable scenarios into a cocked hat:

Matching responses from the dogs
No forensic trace left by abductor
Hundreds of changing stories and lies by the parents and rest of group
Deleted phone messages
No physical searching (well, minimal, approx 1 hr) by the parents
No apparent interest in any of the sightings
Pre-planning future events to mark disappearance
Refusal to do reconstruction
Altered creche records and/or deliberate lies in Kates book about timings and events

And I could go on.

IF Madeleine had been drugged and whisked off into the sunset, none of the above would or could have happened. An abduction COULD be believed BUT for the above plus other ridiculous occurrences created entirely by the parents and their cohorts.

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Kepharel on 14.08.13 12:33

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Kepharel, that's pretty neatly put and all things considered sounds entirely reasonable. However, the other matters I'll list below are what throw reasonable scenarios into a cocked hat:

Matching responses from the dogs
No forensic trace left by abductor
Hundreds of changing stories and lies by the parents and rest of group
Deleted phone messages
No physical searching (well, minimal, approx 1 hr) by the parents
No apparent interest in any of the sightings
Pre-planning future events to mark disappearance
Refusal to do reconstruction
Altered creche records and/or deliberate lies in Kates book about timings and events

And I could go on.

IF Madeleine had been drugged and whisked off into the sunset, none of the above would or could have happened. An abduction COULD be believed BUT for the above plus other ridiculous occurrences created entirely by the parents and their cohorts.
Hya Smoke,
 
Before I reply, let me make one thing clear, it is my total belief that MBM died in the apartment on 3rd May.  So now that’s out of the way, let’s take a look at the matters you have raised.
 
Responses from dogs.
 
They are an indicator but not proof of something untoward happening in the apartment and no more.  The dogs alert, but to whom?  No proof using the alerts on their own that it was MBM. The samples taken were either too small or too degraded: The Portuguese Forensics boys came up with no conclusive evidence that, together with the marks, would have constituted proof and neither did Leicester FSS.
 
The abductor
 
I would offer the following from the final PJ Report:
 
“It should be emphasized that the entire apartment had been searched and
rummaged by an undetermined number of people, with the contamination
that it brings and the difficulty that it raises for the collection of residues.”
 
Finding forensic evidence based on the above was always going to be a struggle.
 
Changing Stories/Pre-planning
 
There is a pre-supposition with these two items that it was done as an act of concealment of a ‘truth’ that has yet to be discovered. That is conjecture and not fact.
  
Sightings/Searching
 
I am assuming here that you mean mostly the Smith sighting, as well as Tanners, and all subsequent ones. The inference here being they were aware of the terminal fate of MBM and knew the sightings to be false. I would have thought feigning concern while a guilty party and running around PDL would have been the preferred option rather than showing no interest.  What better way to keep false leads and confusion going.  I’m not saying the McCanns are saints: That they are narcissists and lack empathy is a better explanation.
 
Altered Creche Records.
 
Again, I would suggest conjecture; I have never read anywhere proof that the McCanns were responsible for altering those registers.  From what I have seen of them they (the registers) are pretty hit and miss anyway, with no-one taking on responsibility for their proper completion.
 
Deleted Phone calls/Reconstruction
 
Sorry, I don’t have an answer for everything.  smilie
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by suzyjohnson on 14.08.13 13:26

@russiandoll wrote:quote sallypelt "  Fearing their children could be trapped should a fire break-out, the McCann’s decided not to lock their doors. Instead, the parents opted to take turns checking on the sleeping children every 30 minutes"

 So, it is plausible that a parent would consider the possibility of fire and still go out and leave 3 children alone. How were the twins meant to exit the apartment? I guess Maddie, the babysitter, was going to pick them up from their cots one at a time and lead them out to safety. No matter that she would not
be able to reach in the travel cots to touch the twins, she was very grown up for her age and would have devised a way to escape with her siblings.
 
 
 
Yes, Russian Doll, I always wondered how the twins were expected to climb out of their cots to escape in the event of a fire.

On the other hand, if it were possible for two toddlers to have been able to leave their cots, either with or without the assistance of their 3 year old sister, then it would have been so dangerous for their parents to have left the patio doors open at all. All three children could easily have wandered off.

Or alternatively, been badly injured within the apartment.

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by PeterMac on 14.08.13 13:59

@suzyjohnson wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:quote sallypelt "  Fearing their children could be trapped should a fire break-out, the McCann’s decided not to lock their doors. Instead, the parents opted to take turns checking on the sleeping children every 30 minutes"
 So, it is plausible that a parent would consider the possibility of fire and still go out and leave 3 children alone. How were the twins meant to exit the apartment? I guess Maddie, the babysitter, was going to pick them up from their cots one at a time and lead them out to safety. No matter that she would not
be able to reach in the travel cots to touch the twins, she was very grown up for her age and would have devised a way to escape with her siblings.
 
Yes, Russian Doll, I always wondered how the twins were expected to climb out of their cots to escape in the event of a fire.
On the other hand, if it were possible for two toddlers to have been able to leave their cots, either with or without the assistance of their 3 year old sister, then it would have been so dangerous for their parents to have left the patio doors open at all. All three children could easily have wandered off.
Or alternatively, been badly injured within the apartment.
You want it should make SENSE, already ! Oy vey !

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by MissesWillYa on 14.08.13 14:06

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Kepharel, that's pretty neatly put and all things considered sounds entirely reasonable. However, the other matters I'll list below are what throw reasonable scenarios into a cocked hat:

Matching responses from the dogs
No forensic trace left by abductor
Hundreds of changing stories and lies by the parents and rest of group
Deleted phone messages
No physical searching (well, minimal, approx 1 hr) by the parents
No apparent interest in any of the sightings
Pre-planning future events to mark disappearance
Refusal to do reconstruction
Altered creche records and/or deliberate lies in Kates book about timings and events

And I could go on.

IF Madeleine had been drugged and whisked off into the sunset, none of the above would or could have happened. An abduction COULD be believed BUT for the above plus other ridiculous occurrences created entirely by the parents and their cohorts.
 Completely agree. I can't remember which blogger said it, maybe it was on Textusa, but the general quote was that, based on forensic evidence, a female relative of Gerry and Kate was either injured or died in 5A, if not Madeleine, then who?
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by aiyoyo on 14.08.13 14:10

So they considered possibility of a fire but not the possibility of inviting trouble ?

Errmmm...why then did the stranger exit from the window ?


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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Guest on 14.08.13 19:16

Châtelaine wrote:I wonder whether Pat Brown will be contributing to the programme.
I thought I'd heard that she'd retired but she has been posting comments in respect of the original poster's link.

Stephen Birch has popped up again!
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Is Madeleine McCann still alive?

Post by PurpleLover365 on 04.09.13 20:42

I very much want to believe that Madeleine McCann is alive, but I know in my heart that she is dead. In fact, she was never abducted in the first place imo. I recently watched the documentary that the investigator made, and after so all my worst suspicions were confirmed. IMO, Madeleine McCann died in their holiday apartment,

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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by Guest on 04.09.13 20:53

@PurpleLover365 wrote:I very much want to believe that Madeleine McCann is alive, but I know in my heart that she is dead. In fact, she was never abducted in the first place imo. I recently watched the documentary that the investigator made, and after so all my worst suspicions were confirmed. IMO, Madeleine McCann died in their holiday apartment,

Rest of post deleted.
Welcome to the forum PurpleLover365, you will see I have deleted a lot of your post.  Firstly it was factually incorrect, re the Smith sighting and secondly although you have your opinions you need to be very careful what you say and how you say it.  You cannot accuse people or say something as fact if it is not proved.  You can have opinions but it must be said in such a way as not to be libellous.
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Re: Is Madeline McCann still alive?

Post by aquila on 04.09.13 20:57

candyfloss wrote:
@PurpleLover365 wrote:I very much want to believe that Madeleine McCann is alive, but I know in my heart that she is dead. In fact, she was never abducted in the first place imo. I recently watched the documentary that the investigator made, and after so all my worst suspicions were confirmed. IMO, Madeleine McCann died in their holiday apartment,

Rest of post deleted.
Welcome to the forum PurpleLover365, you will see I have deleted a lot of your post.  Firstly it was factually incorrect, re the Smith sighting and secondly although you have your opinions you need to be very careful what you say and how you say it.  You cannot accuse people or say something as fact if it is not proved.  You can have opinions but it must be said in such a way as not to be libellous.
from the deleted bit of the post 'I was 8 at the time (I'm really into law)'. Silly season is upon us methinks.
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