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Video..what made Kate cry?

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 14.08.13 8:25

It's my understanding that one can say "they" when it's not known whether it's a he or a she.
What I find much more bizarre is the mention "They've taken HER", not Madeleine or Amelie ...
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 14.08.13 8:28

@Who?What?Where? wrote:I don't know if my recollection is accurate, but another thing that has stuck in my mind was what kate was reported to have said , by people outside the Tapas9, something along the lines of " They have taken her" or "The bas***ds have taken her".


Why the use of the plural, both times, from apparently independent witnesses?

The implication could be that kate knew who " they" were. The term "taken" could relate to a death, to a religious person, e.g. " God has taken her to a better place."


Assuming that those report's were accurate, it might explain the use of the plural, the term "taken" (a term later used to explain the theory of abduction?) plus the cadaver odour?

If you substitute "killed" for "taken", then the  implication's are, potentially, horrific.

This would tend to fit in with what Hick's suggested , that the Mccann's actually knew the perpetator or perpetrator's, but cannot tell, because the consequences would be too serious for all of them..


This theory, to my mind, adds up much more than the tapas9 version of event's.

Does anyone know if my recollection is accurate? Feel free to correct me , if it isn't.
 According to Yvonne Martin social worker she was told Madeleine was taken by a couple.  She says this in 2 different statements.........






The Statements of Yvonne Warren Martin, Social Worker and Child Protection Officer





 

 
Statement of José Monteiro, Inspector, 12 June 2007, to: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral

Evidence to be found in the files, Volume X111 Pages 3422 - 3424



During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter.

 






STATEMENT 33 June 2007







Profession: Social Services and Child Protection
Found in the files: Volume XIII Pages 3425 – 3428




 



Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been ‘taken by a couple’, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy,









STATEMENT 14 November 2007







This is taken from Volume XIII, pages 3430 to 3433 of the Portuguese Police files:
Places worked: Gateshead, South Shields, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, York, Hull, North Tyneside and Plymouth, Devon. Profession: Qualified Social Worker and Child Care Manager.

Interpreter: Filipa Maria da Conceicao Silva







 States that in the discourse of her contact with Madeleine’s parents, which she describes with detail in her previous declarations, Kate told her the child had been taken by a couple. She did not have the opportunity to probe this question nor any other

 https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t61-the-statements-of-yvonne-warren-martin?highlight=yvonne+warren+martin
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by russiandoll on 14.08.13 9:11

I have heard, in many interviews with the McCanns, including recent ones, the abductor ref to in the plural. They, them..

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 14.08.13 11:16

I wonder if Madeleine was supposed to be abducted by a childless couple. Maybe even the couple who went to soothe her when she was crying.

It would explain why the McCanns had the iconic photo ready and waiting - the photo that looks nothing like Madeleine and emphasises a flaw in her eye that she didn't have. 

Madeleine's death then threw plan A into disarray so plan B had to be cobbled together. Kate in her distress keeps reverting to plan A(they've taken her), JT sticks rigidly to plan B (witnessing the abductor) and Gerry is caught out by Jez Wilkins so has to think on his feet.

I'm just speculating here so please feel free to pick holes in this theory yes
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 14.08.13 19:18

Poe wrote:I wonder if Madeleine was supposed to be abducted by a childless couple. Maybe even the couple who went to soothe her when she was crying.

It would explain why the McCanns had the iconic photo ready and waiting - the photo that looks nothing like Madeleine and emphasises a flaw in her eye that she didn't have. 

Madeleine's death then threw plan A into disarray so plan B had to be cobbled together. Kate in her distress keeps reverting to plan A(they've taken her), JT sticks rigidly to plan B (witnessing the abductor) and Gerry is caught out by Jez Wilkins so has to think on his feet.

I'm just speculating here so please feel free to pick holes in this theory yes
 Just a thought, lets go with the 'Madeleine was supposed to be abducted by a childless couple' theory.
All was going to plan but then something happened on 30th April, RM hastily books a flight in the early hours of the morning on April 30th ( is this time significant?) returning to Portugal May 1st, he leaps straight into the thick of it translating witness statements on May 4th.

Phone records show that there was intense activity on the 30th April between the landline of the home of RM and his mother in Praia Da Luz and two Exeter telephone numbers, one may have been his sisters, one call to Exeter number lasted over an hour, some calls were to a UK mobile phone, even his girlfriend was making long distance calls on 30th instead of her usual short calls.

Now lets see who also hails from Exeter, ah yes, JT, she appeared to have received a call made at 4.12 am on 29th April( I am seeing a pattern forming here!) there are a strange pattern of mobile calls around 10.00 pm on May 1st on Tanners mobile, note that GM received 12 to 14 voicemails on May 2nd, this same day (May 2nd)KM was busy wiping all calls from her mobile.

According to a Portuguese journalist RM claimed her knew Madeleine's parents, knew the were doctors and was deeply disturbed as he had a daughter called Madeleine who was also three (?) I can remember reading that RM constantly told reporters that "they'll never find her, she's probably in Spain".

RM has an Aunt/Cousin -Sally Everleigh- who works for an adoption agency.

Something happened on April 30th that threw the plan into chaos, did M die? I doubt that, PF heard her cry on May 1st in the evening. Did the MC'S suddenly realise that they couldn't go through with it and changed their minds?

One thing I am sure of, The McCann's knew RM before the trip to Portugal, JT knew Murat before the trip to Portugal.

What keeps coming into my head is what GM said to Pamela Fenn 30 minutes or so after he found out that his beautiful little daughter has gone missing.
After hearing all the noise and shouting PF leaned over the balcony and asked GM what was happening he said," a small girl has been abducted". Mrs Fenn told of how she found that a really odd thing to say.. and so do I!
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 14.08.13 21:26

@Hicks wrote:
Poe wrote:I wonder if Madeleine was supposed to be abducted by a childless couple. Maybe even the couple who went to soothe her when she was crying.

It would explain why the McCanns had the iconic photo ready and waiting - the photo that looks nothing like Madeleine and emphasises a flaw in her eye that she didn't have. 

Madeleine's death then threw plan A into disarray so plan B had to be cobbled together. Kate in her distress keeps reverting to plan A(they've taken her), JT sticks rigidly to plan B (witnessing the abductor) and Gerry is caught out by Jez Wilkins so has to think on his feet.

I'm just speculating here so please feel free to pick holes in this theory yes
 Just a thought, lets go with the 'Madeleine was supposed to be abducted by a childless couple' theory.
All was going to plan but then something happened on 30th April, RM hastily books a flight in the early hours of the morning on April 30th ( is this time significant?) returning to Portugal May 1st, he leaps straight into the thick of it translating witness statements on May 4th.

Phone records show that there was intense activity on the 30th April between the landline of the home of RM and his mother in Praia Da Luz and two Exeter telephone numbers, one may have been his sisters, one call to Exeter number lasted over an hour, some calls were to a UK mobile phone, even his girlfriend was making long distance calls on 30th instead of her usual short calls.

Now lets see who also hails from Exeter, ah yes, JT, she appeared to have received a call made at 4.12 am on 29th April( I am seeing a pattern forming here!) there are a strange pattern of mobile calls around 10.00 pm on May 1st on Tanners mobile, note that GM received 12 to 14 voicemails on May 2nd, this same day (May 2nd)KM was busy wiping all calls from her mobile.

According to a Portuguese journalist RM claimed her knew Madeleine's parents, knew the were doctors and was deeply disturbed as he had a daughter called Madeleine who was also three (?) I can remember reading that RM constantly told reporters that "they'll never find her, she's probably in Spain".

RM has an Aunt/Cousin -Sally Everleigh- who works for an adoption agency.

Something happened on April 30th that threw the plan into chaos, did M die? I doubt that, PF heard her cry on May 1st in the evening. Did the MC'S suddenly realise that they couldn't go through with it and changed their minds?

One thing I am sure of, The McCann's knew RM before the trip to Portugal, JT knew Murat before the trip to Portugal.

What keeps coming into my head is what GM said to Pamela Fenn 30 minutes or so after he found out that his beautiful little daughter has gone missing.
After hearing all the noise and shouting PF leaned over the balcony and asked GM what was happening he said," a small girl has been abducted". Mrs Fenn told of how she found that a really odd thing to say.. and so do I!
 I have an idea what could have happened on April 30th.
The MC'S went on a trip to Sagres with Madeleine on that date, NOT the twins though, a shop keeper remembers seeing them. M only in crèche for 15 minutes that day.

Was she there to meet her new adoptive parents? Perhaps the MC'S didn't like them or they couldn't agree on specific arrangements.
I have read that a balding man and a blonde female were seen taking covert pictures of children. It was also reported that the PJ had identified two people caught on CCTV as being a couple who rented a holiday apartment in Burgau some four miles along the coast ( remember the Tanner/Murat DNA being found in an apartment in Burgau,or someone from their maternal line?) 
A blonde female with shoulder length hair and a man with middle parted hair, both about forty( quite possibly childless I should imagine) were seen to eat breakfast on the terrace of the Solimar apartments. These apartments were deserted by the time the PJ got there...mmm.. odd.

The Solimar apartments, managed by Jacinto & Murat, founded by Mr Robert Murat's father in the 70's, Murat in the picture once again.

Could we actually be looking at 'THE COUPLE'? The blonde female? The balding man? The media, perhaps fed by Mitchell, have turned this couple into a pair of Paedo's to deflect them away form the true storyline, when was the make up photo released? this was most definitely a warning to them to keep quiet or they would be stitched up like a kipper.
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Casey5 on 14.08.13 21:51

Why on God's earth would the McCanns' want Madeleine adopted? She was out of the clingy, baby stage where they are so demanding and such hard work.
From all accounts Madeleine was an articulate, caring little girl not a continually, screaming, ill-mannered pain in the rear end.
If they had wanted her adopted they could have chosen the normal route via social services etc.

It's far more likely, imo, that she met with an accident either a fall or a too-hard backhander and died in the apartment - that scenario fits with the dogs also - the elephant in the room dogs that the media never mention but cannot ignore for ever surely.

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 14.08.13 22:24

@Casey5 wrote:Why on God's earth would the McCanns' want Madeleine adopted? She was out of the clingy, baby stage where they are so demanding and such hard work.
From all accounts Madeleine was an articulate, caring little girl not a continually, screaming, ill-mannered pain in the rear end.
If they had wanted her adopted they could have chosen the normal route via social services etc.

It's far more likely, imo, that she met with an accident either a fall or a too-hard backhander and died in the apartment - that scenario fits with the dogs also - the elephant in the room dogs that the media never mention but cannot ignore for ever surely.
 In the press shortly after M went missing there were rumours, from neighbours, that the MC'S were looking to get Madeleine adopted, even the PJ asked them if this were true. 
A relative states that Madeleine was a screamer, a girl who could throw a tantrum when she wanted.
I read that either a few days before, or the day before M went missing she ran out of the apartment and hid in the bushes for half an hour, others heard Kate looking for her and calling her name.
Madeleine was sent to her Grandmothers for Christmas when she was two years old, what parent would not want to be with their child at such a magical time like that?
Kate has made many references to the twins being a handful, having tantrums in the car, not sleeping.
It seems to me that these parents want lots of 'me' time, the children spent most of their holiday in the crèche, and, lets face it, they left three children all under the age of five alone in a dark room in a foreign country to go out on the lash.
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Who?What?Where? on 15.08.13 0:25

Plenty of things to think about in this thread, thank's for sharing your experience of this case.

Just a quick reply to chateleaine. I grew up in an area of the UK very similar to kate and have a similar accent to her. In her situation , I would have said "Someone has taken her"  or "Somebody has taken her". Based on my experience, the term "they" would indicate a plural, until proven otherwise, obviously..

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by whmon on 15.08.13 0:37

Sorry everyone but I beg to differ regarding the term 'they'. 'They' is regularly used when the gender or identity of the individual(s) is unknown or undisclosed, even when the individual is singular rather than plural. An example could be (from a school letter) 'if your child is coming on the picnic please ensure that THEY have a packed lunch with THEM'.

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Who?What?Where? on 15.08.13 0:52

Fair point, whmon, but the term "they" in a school letter is a rather distant and remote reference, to someone elses child. Why does that ring a bell, somewhere?

If the McCann's reactions to Mrs Fenn's question's are correct, then do you not think that indicates a remote connection?

Just a difference of opinion then. Unless you actually know, what the truth really is?

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by lj on 15.08.13 1:36

@Hicks wrote:
@Casey5 wrote:Why on God's earth would the McCanns' want Madeleine adopted? She was out of the clingy, baby stage where they are so demanding and such hard work.
From all accounts Madeleine was an articulate, caring little girl not a continually, screaming, ill-mannered pain in the rear end.
If they had wanted her adopted they could have chosen the normal route via social services etc.

It's far more likely, imo, that she met with an accident either a fall or a too-hard backhander and died in the apartment - that scenario fits with the dogs also - the elephant in the room dogs that the media never mention but cannot ignore for ever surely.
 In the press shortly after M went missing there were rumours, from neighbours, that the MC'S were looking to get Madeleine adopted, even the PJ asked them if this were true. 
A relative states that Madeleine was a screamer, a girl who could throw a tantrum when she wanted.
I read that either a few days before, or the day before M went missing she ran out of the apartment and hid in the bushes for half an hour, others heard Kate looking for her and calling her name.
Madeleine was sent to her Grandmothers for Christmas when she was two years old, what parent would not want to be with their child at such a magical time like that?
Kate has made many references to the twins being a handful, having tantrums in the car, not sleeping.
It seems to me that these parents want lots of 'me' time, the children spent most of their holiday in the crèche, and, lets face it, they left three children all under the age of five alone in a dark room in a foreign country to go out on the lash.
Yep, one doting grandma said (before she was gagged about that subject) that kid could throw a tantrum. The other loving grammy said "there was the good Maddie, and there was the bad Maddie.

The mom herself declared that Madeleine had a hard time sharing attention with the twins.

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Is it guilt?

Post by MapleLeaves on 15.08.13 1:50

Hi Hicks 
Thankyou for uploading the great clips - they are definitely revealing, but of what I wonder...
Particularly Kate's emotional reaction in the first clip 'why is Kate crying?', 
To Poe, I loved what you said about turning down the sound and rewatching it and how Gerry could be talking about winning the lottery - I was LOL spit coffee !!
"Madeleine may not know she is missing" There are some great comments to the clip on youtube:
 
And pinocchio rubs his nose and comes out with another howler.  Unbelievable. "


Hicks I noticed what you said about Gerry saying about needing to catch the perpetrator as being a "Her" and wondered if this triggered Kate to be overcome with emotion, guilt maybe? Tears of Anger at Gerry over what he said, maybe for the slip??
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 15.08.13 10:08

@Who?What?Where? wrote:Plenty of things to think about in this thread, thank's for sharing your experience of this case.

Just a quick reply to chateleaine. I grew up in an area of the UK very similar to kate and have a similar accent to her. In her situation , I would have said "Someone has taken her"  or "Somebody has taken her". Based on my experience, the term "they" would indicate a plural, until proven otherwise, obviously..
In the same situation, I would have said, "She's not there" or "Madeleine's gone" or something similar. Short and to the point - every extra syllable wastes time.

A normal mother's reaction would start with disbelief (she has to be here) followed be mounting panic (find her, find her, find her). At that point, the reasons for her disappearance wouldn't even register. At that point, most mothers would be functioning on basic animal instinct and the only thing that mattered: SHE. IS. NOT. THERE.



"They've taken her" sounds to me like it was either rehearsed and planned that way by people who do not understand basic human instinct or Kate knows who "they" are.
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 15.08.13 10:13

MapleLeaves,


 welcome2
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 15.08.13 11:24

@Who?What?Where? wrote:Fair point, whmon, but the term "they" in a school letter is a rather distant and remote reference, to someone elses child. Why does that ring a bell, somewhere?

If the McCann's reactions to Mrs Fenn's question's are correct, then do you not think that indicates a remote connection?

Just a difference of opinion then. Unless you actually know, what the truth really is?
 Hi Poe,  regarding Mrs Fenn, if my child had suddenly disappeared from her bed and I knew that there had been someone above at the time the first thing I would do is question that person frantically, did they hear anything? or even if that person popped a head over the balcony  and asked what was happening a normal reaction surely would be to say 'My daughter is missing, did you see or hear anything? 

Regarding the term 'they' it would seem to me that more than one person is being implied......a couple perhaps.
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 15.08.13 14:20

welcome  MapleLeaves
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Guest on 15.08.13 16:32

@Hicks wrote:
@Who?What?Where? wrote:Fair point, whmon, but the term "they" in a school letter is a rather distant and remote reference, to someone elses child. Why does that ring a bell, somewhere?

If the McCann's reactions to Mrs Fenn's question's are correct, then do you not think that indicates a remote connection?

Just a difference of opinion then. Unless you actually know, what the truth really is?
 Hi Poe,  regarding Mrs Fenn, if my child had suddenly disappeared from her bed and I knew that there had been someone above at the time the first thing I would do is question that person frantically, did they hear anything? or even if that person popped a head over the balcony  and asked what was happening a normal reaction surely would be to say 'My daughter is missing, did you see or hear anything? 

Regarding the term 'they' it would seem to me that more than one person is being implied......a couple perhaps.
 "They" could mean an individual, a couple, an organisation or even a rampaging hoard. The McCanns (particularly Gerry) remind me of Humpty Dumpty in Through The Looking Glass:  "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

The word "they" concerns me because its usage implies a greater ability for rational thought than a woman who has just discovered her child is missing should have.

April Jones' poor mother knew that April had been seen getting into a vehicle. She didn't think, "They've taken her" her only thought as she spent the night walking the streets and trawling through bins was, "Find April". 

(Sorry I haven't explained this well)
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 15.08.13 17:55

@MapleLeaves wrote:Hi Hicks 
Thankyou for uploading the great clips - they are definitely revealing, but of what I wonder...
Particularly Kate's emotional reaction in the first clip 'why is Kate crying?', 
To Poe, I loved what you said about turning down the sound and rewatching it and how Gerry could be talking about winning the lottery - I was LOL spit coffee !!
"Madeleine may not know she is missing" There are some great comments to the clip on youtube:
 
And pinocchio rubs his nose and comes out with another howler.  Unbelievable. "


Hicks I noticed what you said about Gerry saying about needing to catch the perpetrator as being a "Her" and wondered if this triggered Kate to be overcome with emotion, guilt maybe? Tears of Anger at Gerry over what he said, maybe for the slip??
 Hi MapleLeaves, I think you are right about Kate being overcome by emotion when Gerry refers to the abductor as 'her', it gives a bit more of the game away, as Goncalo Amaral rightly says, ' the varnish will crack eventually and the truth will come out.

When I look at the make up photo of Madeleine(I have to say that it gives me the creeps) her eyes appear almost dead or heavily drugged, you can see tear stains, some have speculated that the photo could have been taken at the apartments in Burgau, the background is very similar to them, others that the blue colour has been painted in.

Kate gives two different accounts as to the situation regarding this photo, lying about the photo means then that it must have great significance.

The trip on the 30th April to Sagres (as mentioned above) the MC'S had buggy with them even though the twins were back in Luz, remember the shop keeper stating that she thought the girl was too old to need a buggy?
I am wondering if indeed this photo was taken at Burgau, to be used as insurance at a later date, a drugged M would need a buggy.
 In a McCann vid they are asked the question, "did you give to your kids something like Calpol to make them sleep? GM rubs ears, very uncomfortable with that question, well maybe not calpol but something else perhaps.
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by russiandoll on 15.08.13 18:29

Just my opinion, but while  THEY can be and is used as a general term when there is no thought of gender or number, in the context of announcing a missing child, an abduction , it would not be natural to  use THEY unless you knew it was persons, plural.
 Much more natural to say
  She's missing
  She's been taken
  Someone's taken her

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"they have taken her" ( sticking with the script )

Post by MapleLeaves on 16.08.13 10:50

Thankyou Poe and Candyfloss for the warm welcome!

I agree that the phrase 'they have taken her' does seem scripted... How would they know if it was more than one person? 
It seems to be more often than not in child abduction cases it is one lone perpetrator rather than two or more. The fact they keep saying 'they' does seem to hint at something..
Hicks I find your adoption gone wrong theory intriguing, do you think maybe it didn't go as planned and they returned with Madeleine to their apartment and then maybe an accident has happened? 
Also that weird in a bad way photo of Madeleine with the blue eye shadow.. I have read other posters saying she looks lifeless and its true. I think she looks really sad - eyes, tear stained cheeks and looks very posed... Interesting that you say Kate has lied twice about the details around this photo, i agree with you it seems like this is of significance.
It's beyond disturbing the idea that the parents could be paedophiles but there seems to be lots of clues like this that possibly indicate child abuse being involved.
I found the Gaspar's statement really shocking.what
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by View-from-Ireland on 16.08.13 11:05

You know, I find it so odd that in this day and age with all of our technological advances that this case remains as much of a mystery six years on as it did the day the story first broke. 

There is so much circumstantial evidence out there in video (not to mention the actual forensic evidence!!) to show that the McCann story doesn't really add up. In previous decades, when there was less easy access to video of victim relatives, police could still pick up on something that didn't quite 'sit right'.

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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 16.08.13 11:36

@MapleLeaves wrote:Thankyou Poe and Candyfloss for the warm welcome!

I agree that the phrase 'they have taken her' does seem scripted... How would they know if it was more than one person? 
It seems to be more often than not in child abduction cases it is one lone perpetrator rather than two or more. The fact they keep saying 'they' does seem to hint at something..
Hicks I find your adoption gone wrong theory intriguing, do you think maybe it didn't go as planned and they returned with Madeleine to their apartment and then maybe an accident has happened? 
Also that weird in a bad way photo of Madeleine with the blue eye shadow.. I have read other posters saying she looks lifeless and its true. I think she looks really sad - eyes, tear stained cheeks and looks very posed... Interesting that you say Kate has lied twice about the details around this photo, i agree with you it seems like this is of significance.
It's beyond disturbing the idea that the parents could be paedophiles but there seems to be lots of clues like this that possibly indicate child abuse being involved.
I found the Gaspar's statement really shocking.what
The Gaspar's statements are truly shocking yet they seem to be completely overlooked, not by accident I should imagine.
However friendly I may have been with a couple I would never let the male bathe my young daughter ,I find it a bit disturbing that it was the men, seemingly on past holidays, who bathed the children. Why would they even want to? 
It is quite possible that the adoption was still a plan but that due to the MC'S negligence M had an accident, though I have said before I find it hard to understand how they managed to quickly found a suitable hiding place for the corpse, got everyone involved to agree to say nothing.
I try to imagine myself in a similar situation as say one of the females in the group, I doubt ver much that I would go along with it, I would try to persuade the parents to call police and tell the truth, after all, it was an accident wasn't it?
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by Hicks on 18.08.13 19:04

@Hicks wrote:
@MapleLeaves wrote:Thankyou Poe and Candyfloss for the warm welcome!

I agree that the phrase 'they have taken her' does seem scripted... How would they know if it was more than one person? 
It seems to be more often than not in child abduction cases it is one lone perpetrator rather than two or more. The fact they keep saying 'they' does seem to hint at something..
Hicks I find your adoption gone wrong theory intriguing, do you think maybe it didn't go as planned and they returned with Madeleine to their apartment and then maybe an accident has happened? 
Also that weird in a bad way photo of Madeleine with the blue eye shadow.. I have read other posters saying she looks lifeless and its true. I think she looks really sad - eyes, tear stained cheeks and looks very posed... Interesting that you say Kate has lied twice about the details around this photo, i agree with you it seems like this is of significance.
It's beyond disturbing the idea that the parents could be paedophiles but there seems to be lots of clues like this that possibly indicate child abuse being involved.
I found the Gaspar's statement really shocking.what
The Gaspar's statements are truly shocking yet they seem to be completely overlooked, not by accident I should imagine.
However friendly I may have been with a couple I would never let the male bathe my young daughter ,I find it a bit disturbing that it was the men, seemingly on past holidays, who bathed the children. Why would they even want to? 
It is quite possible that the adoption was still a plan but that due to the MC'S negligence M had an accident, though I have said before I find it hard to understand how they managed to quickly found a suitable hiding place for the corpse, got everyone involved to agree to say nothing.
I try to imagine myself in a similar situation as say one of the females in the group, I doubt ver much that I would go along with it, I would try to persuade the parents to call police and tell the truth, after all, it was an accident wasn't it?
What really sure where to put this vid so I'll put it here if that's ok.

I have started to re-watch the McCann vids through different eyes, going on the assumption that she was indeed abducted by a couple who were going to adopt M.

Watch Gerry 4.10, he lets slip that he would be in trouble if he came home later that six o'clock, Kate changes the subject quickly, a little proof maybe that she found it hard to cope with three small children? 

At about 23.00 in this vid Kate is talking about the shutters and how M would not have wandered off....then... she say's, " the window was open, the shutter was up, I'M NOT LYING ABOUT THAT".
Is it me or does that sound like, I may have lied about other things but, I' not lying about that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLvnfcl-Zkg
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Re: Video..what made Kate cry?

Post by worriedmum on 18.08.13 21:12

@Hicks wrote:

At about 23.00 in this vid Kate is talking about the shutters and how M would not have wandered off....then... she say's, " the window was open, the shutter was up, I'M NOT LYING ABOUT THAT".
Is it me or does that sound like, I may have lied about other things but, I' not lying about that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLvnfcl-Zkg
Just looked at this and Kate also talks about the curtains being drawn shut-she says Madeleine would have had to open them and then draw them shut behind her.

Does anyone know if the curtains were mentioned in their official statements by any of the people doing checks? It strikes me that it would be impossible to see what was happening inside the apartment if they really were drawn...also, did they 'whoosh' in sequence with the bedroom curtains- wouldn't you need a through draught (sorry I'm not at all scientific..)
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