The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

Please note that when you register your username must be different from your email address!

Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Lance De Boils on 20.07.13 22:47

@Seek truth wrote:Do not try to solve the madeleine case!
This is what the pro mccanns want. 

Google and you'll find, they critisise  those who question.

Wonder what they're SO  worried about?

 I doubt any of us here would have a hope in hell of solving the case. We don't know everything, there's a slice of the cake missing. However, what we do know makes little to no sense and many of us are incredulous. I am just trying to understand what the hell is going on, because this is massive. It can't be just about a "straight forward" child abduction abroad, surely?. It involves so many people, all the way to the top, nothing adds up and the authorities and media seem to ignore all that. I actually find it all rather unsettling.
avatar
Lance De Boils

Posts : 806
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2011-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by susible on 21.07.13 10:05

Sorry Lance, I disagree, I don't think that there is anyone at the top or anyone being protected, the police have never had and still do not have all of the evidence needed for a watertight conviction..they've already seen how slippery the Mc's can be and don't forget people like Richard Branson stepping in saying he'd pay their legal fees if they were charged etc, so I can only imagine the prosecutors in Portugal and the UK would think twice about making any charges (not from fear of branson, just from a fear of losing the case and the opportunity to convict the Mccanns) However, Branson is long gone now, as have all of their other wealthy backers..they probably read the released police files and decided to run a mile.

@seek truth...many of us here have been following the case since the beginning, even if we have not been on this forum very long, and as such are well aware of the McCanns legal heavy weights and their propensity for suing people who disagree with their version of events. However, as mentioned above, their money is now running out and therefore, they won't be able to afford carter ruck anymore and bang goes their protections imo

susible

Posts : 330
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Guest on 21.07.13 19:16

I'm not going to play this game.

I want to be wrong.

I want Madeleine to be found happy & healthy & living with a loving family ...sadly that's not going to happen.

I hoped that Madeleine had a happy life. That her death was quick, painless and accidental. That in a moment of panic, her parents hid her body.

She rarely looked happy on photos. Her parents don't appear to know her and there seems to be a huge campaign that was just waiting to swing into action. I can't help feeling that something was supposed to happen to Madeleine but it went wrong, "a disaster". 

That is a dark, dark path that I do not want to tread.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by PeterMac on 21.07.13 23:06

Poe wrote:
I want to be wrong.
I want Madeleine to be found happy & healthy & living with a loving family ...sadly that's not going to happen.

POE: for the avoidance of any doubt in the minds of anyone who prowls and stalks this site - we agree. We all WANT that to be true, but as you say, sadly, those who look long enough and dispassionately enough at the evidence know that it is so unlikely as to be almost beyond imagination.

____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Investigator

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 174
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Cristobell on 22.07.13 1:39

@sallypelt wrote:What has baffled me from the very beginning, is how two parents can go out to the Tapas bar and act normal, knowing their daughter was dead. The only way they could have done this, IMO, is, that they must have taken some sort of medication to keep them calm. I can't think of any other explanation.

That was something that used to baffle me.  However, I have read Kate's book and am astonished at how calm they have been in interviews while their lives were falling to pieces behind the scenes.  She gives detailed descriptions of Gerry throwing himself on the ground in despair and herself hitting walls and bed frames - yet if we tally the dates to Gerry's blogs all was well in Pleasantville and their interviews were word perfect.

Cristobell

Posts : 2436
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2011-10-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

yard

Post by marconi on 22.07.13 4:44

The Yard will definitely not come back from Algarve with empty hands. I believe that at least one person will tell the truth.

And it will be the beginning of the end. The key to the mystery is there and the body will be found.

This is going very fast now, may God be blessed, it is even possible that arrests will be made before the royal baby goes to school.

The whole problem is that the police keep secrets all the time, who knows how long we will have to wait before we hear something.
Maybe we will have to wait for an official identification of the corpse, DNA, etc, but anyway I am happy that the investigation is in the hands of the Met police because in the UK the police are more open to the media than in Portugal.

I love Cameron and Theresa May's support, who must be fed up of the McCanns.

marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

watch this!!!!

Post by marconi on 22.07.13 6:17

call youtube


Madeleine McCann parents Kate and Gerry McCann urge Prime minister david cameron...


wonderful!  one day before Cameron listened to them!

marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Rufus T on 22.07.13 9:55

@Lance De Boils wrote:I would actually be more inclined to believe it was the adults who were on "meds". As I posted before, all the coming and going sounds like people nipping off to snort lines of coke.
But of course, they wouldn't be able to say that, so they made out they had to keep going back to the apts to check the children.
Now, supposing one of them prepared a few lines ready for the others and supposing Maddie had ingested some which led to her death... They certainly wouldn't want a post-mortem carried out under those circumstances, would they? Otherwise they'd ALL be in serious trouble. A bunch of medics on coke? One of them being a cardiologist? Ooh, the fallout from that would be huge.
All pure speculation on my part, of course. Just throwing a theory out there. smilie

 Indeed, that very thought had crossed my mind. It could also account for the large amounts of alcohol consumed each night as the old Bolivian marching powder seems to increase ones ability to imbibe or so I have been told.winkwink Can't imagine what the tapas crew would have been like after a few lines as they seem a very arrogant crowd to begin with- terrifying.
avatar
Rufus T

Posts : 269
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-06-18
Location : Glasgow

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Lance De Boils on 22.07.13 11:51

[Continuing the speculation....]

And IF that is what they were up to, Dianne Webster was probably completely oblivious to it. I doubt the Paynes would have used their own apartment in case DW found out what they were doing. More likely they'd have gone into one of the others' apartments to do theirs. imo.
avatar
Lance De Boils

Posts : 806
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2011-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Guest on 22.07.13 12:01

[continuing the speculation...]

RM could have supplied it...., very busy just after arrival:-) Local contacts..

They could hardly have taken it with them on the plane.


just speculation...
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by whmon on 22.07.13 13:14

This could possibly explain the F*** OFF I'm not here to enjoy myself comment. I've just googled cocaine side effects and among other things irritability and mood swings are listed.

____________________
This message is confidential and the information must not be used, disclosed, or copied to any other person who is not entitled to receive it. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender and then delete it.
avatar
whmon

Posts : 434
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-04-04
Location : Back of Beyond

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 22.07.13 16:33

For any champion of lost causes out there seriously trying to put a case together for abduction then this may be of use, bearing in mind Martin Grimes own caveat that the dogs alerts were insufficient for proof without corroborating evidence.  I have brought together the PJ’s lists of material sent for forensic analysis as far as apartment 5A is concerned, as this was where the supposed abduction took place, and the reply given by the FSS on the 4th of September 2007.  I have a feeling the PJ's own forensics boys didn't fair much better, but I stand to be corrected.
 
 
 
Items 1 to 4: Tile fragments collected by PJ
 
FSS test: 286/2007-CRL (1) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 1
 
A DNA result by LCN, that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex for a meaningful interpretation, was obtained from the cellular material collected from these floor tiles.
 
 
FSS test: 286/2007-CRL (2) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 2
 
An inconclusive, incomplete DNA result, consisting of only some unconfirmed DNA components, was obtained from the cellular material recovered from the edges of floor-tile 2 from the apartment floor. The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from the larger area of floor-tile 2 was unfruitful, given that it was not possible to obtain any DNA profile. These samples were then subjected to LCN analysis.
 
An incomplete, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material in an area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, there is not any positive proof that supports the theory of any of the members of the McCann family to have contributed DNA to this result. A DNA result was obtained through LCN consistent with only one DNA component from a second area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, this component leaves no room for any other interpretation.
 
 
FSS test: 286/2007-CRL (3) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 3
 
 
The attempts to a DNA profile from any cellular material in two areas of this floor-tile were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.
 
A DNA result that consisted of only some DNA components was obtained through LCN analysis of cellular material recovered from one area of floor-tile 3. In my opinion, this result left no room for any other interpretation. The attempt made the obtain a DNA profile through LCN from a second area of floor-tile 3 was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained.
 
 
FSS test: 286/2007-CRL (4) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 4
 
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these floor-tiles. In my opinion, this resuly contained information too meagre [scanty/poor] to permit a meaningful comparison.
 
 
Item 5: Additional tile fragment Collected by PJ
 
FSS test: 286/2007-CRL (5) Pieces of floor-tile identified close to number 1
 
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through the LCN technique from some cellular material present in swabs collected from the marks [spots] 1, 2 and 3 were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained.
 
 
Items 6 to 12: Skirting board fragments Collected by PJ
 
 
286/2007-CRL (6) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 1
 
A DNA result by LCN, that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex for a meaningful interpretation, was obtained from the cellular material collected from these floor tiles.
 
286/2007-CRL (7) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 2
286/2007-CRL (8) Pieces of skirting board identified as numbers 2 and 3
 
 
An inconclusive, incomplete DNA result, consisting of only some unconfirmed DNA components, was obtained from the cellular material recovered from the edges of floor-tile 2 from the apartment floor. The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from the larger area of floor-tile 2 was unfruitful, given that it was not possible to obtain any DNA profile. These samples were then subjected to LCN analysis.
 
An incomplete, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material in an area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, there is not any positive proof that supports the theory of any of the members of the McCann family to have contributed DNA to this result. A DNA result was obtained through LCN consistent with only one DNA component from a second area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, this component leaves no room for any other interpretation.
 
 
286/2007-CRL (9) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 3 Collected by PJ
The attempts to a DNA profile from any cellular material in two areas of this floor-tile were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.
 
A DNA result that consisted of only some DNA components was obtained through LCN analysis of cellular material recovered from one area of floor-tile 3. In my opinion, this result left no room for any other interpretation. The attempt made the obtain a DNA profile through LCN from a second area of floor-tile 3 was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained.
 
 
 
 
286/2007-CRL (10) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 4 Collected by PJ
 
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these floor-tiles. In my opinion, this resuly contained information too meagre [scanty/poor] to permit a meaningful comparison.
 
 
286/2007-CRL (11) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 1 Collected by PJ
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through the LCN technique from some cellular material present in swabs collected from the marks [spots] 1, 2 and 3 were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained.
 
286/2007-CRL (12) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 4
 
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects. In my opinion, there exists no proof that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.
 
Item 13: Residues/small fragments from skirting board area Collected by PJ
 
286/2007-CRL (13) Residual/small fragments in the area of the skirting board.
 
 
Item 14: Dust/small fragments from tile area Collected by PJ
 
286/2007-CRL (13) Residual/small fragments in the area of the skirting board.
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
286/2007-CRL (14) Dust/small fragments in the area of the floor tiles
 
This object was not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.
 
 
Items 16 to 19: Grouting/mortar from between tiles, and between tiles and wall Collected by PJ
 
286/2007-CRL (16) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 1
 
A DNA profile that did not match any [of the five members] of the McCann family was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area.
 
286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2
 
A DNA profile that appeared to be from at least two sources was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area. In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques. Breaking [departing] from the principle, for it to have had a DNA contribution from Lino Henriques then the remaining information in the smaller part of the result is too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.
 
286/2007-CRL (18) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 3
 
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
 
286/2007-CRL (19) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 4
 
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
 
 
Item 20: Small tile fragments with cement/mortar Collected by PJ
 
286/2007-CRL (20) Fragments of floor tile and grouting
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
 
 
I A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 1A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
 
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual but not matching any other profile obtained in this case, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
 
 
2A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 2A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two people, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
 
 
3A - Stain on the floor recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.
 
An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.
 
A low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3B). In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
 
4A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 4A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a female individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
 
5A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.
 
 
6A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 6A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.
 
 
7A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 7A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
8A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 8A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.
 
 
9A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 9A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. Also, this result did not match in any way the profile obtained from swabs 286A/2007 CRL 1A & B.
 
 
10A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 10A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
11IA - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 11A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
 
 
12A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 12A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs. In my opinion, there is no evidence that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.
 
 
13A - Stain on the wall recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 13A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
 
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.
 
 
14A - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 14A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
 
Weak and incomplete DNA results consisting only of some unconfirmed DNA components were obtained from the cellular material present in these wet and dry swabs. In my opinion the results are not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.
A mixed, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in each of the swabs. In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.
 
15A - Stain on the back of the sofa recovered with a Dry swab; PJ
 
286A/2007-CRL 15A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
 
A weak and incomplete DNA result showing indications as having come from more than one person was obtained from the cellular material present in dry swab (15A) effected on the rear of the sofa. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.
 
 
16 - Blue curtain; PJ
16B - White curtain behind blue curtain and armband. PJ
 
 
 
86A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain
286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain
These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected. The hem of one of the blue curtains (16) was swabbed to collect any cellular material that might exist. An incomplete, inconclusive DNA result consisting only of two unconfirmed DNA components was obtained. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. The sample was submitted for LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result, comprising only some DNA components, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material recovered from the hem of one the curtains. In my opinion, this result contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by whmon on 22.07.13 19:33

@whmon wrote:This could possibly explain the F*** OFF I'm not here to enjoy myself comment. I've just googled cocaine side effects and among other things irritability and mood swings are listed.
A further thought on cocaine use: If a person is using this drug then presumably the mind-altering effects of it could be the cause of all sorts of erratic behaviour that would not occur if the individual was not under the influence at the time, say for e.g. - disposing of a body rather than contacting the authorities to report a tragic accident

____________________
This message is confidential and the information must not be used, disclosed, or copied to any other person who is not entitled to receive it. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender and then delete it.
avatar
whmon

Posts : 434
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-04-04
Location : Back of Beyond

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Newintown on 22.07.13 20:00

@whmon wrote:This could possibly explain the F*** OFF I'm not here to enjoy myself comment. I've just googled cocaine side effects and among other things irritability and mood swings are listed.

The "mood swings" mention is very interesting, could this account for certain persons laughing and smiling at inappropriate moments and sucking on a lollypop and watching a football match on TV when the PJ are on tenterhooks waiting for a phone call from someone who could have been the "abductor".

____________________
Laurie Levenson, Quoted in the Guardian ........

"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"

avatar
Newintown

Posts : 1597
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2011-07-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by bobbin on 22.07.13 22:51

kepharel, re your comment "I have a feeling the PJ's own forensics boys didn't fair much better, but I stand to be corrected."

I don't know why you have put all of the 'second' forensic analysis report up, which we have looked at, and analysed, a long time ago, when it was clearly discussed that this 'second' version, which is completely at odds with the 'first' forensic version, was a possible 'whitewashing'.
Martin Grimes clearly holds that his dogs 'indicate' where to look further. He does not make any further claims. The dogs marked where forensic evidence was subsequently found.
Given the UK forensic labs 'about face' it is fortunate, it would seem, that the Portuguese kept some samples back for analysis with other forensic labs, and that information could well be in the 'withheld' information.
Furthermore, regarding one of your other posts re the patio door blinds, and whether they were closed on the 3rd May, or not:
Only one person (Rachel Oldfield) claims they were closed.
All of the other statements imply either directly or indirectly that they were open.
Furthermore, there is no reference from anyone, including Mrs. Fenn, that the blinds were 'opened or heard to be opening', when the search for Madeleine began.
On the weight of statements claiming the patio blinds to be open/closed, I think it is wrong to assume that they were closed, and to make any assumption/speculation that the front door 'must have been used' since the Rachel Oldfield recollection could be either erroneous or deliberately misleading.

bobbin

Posts : 2051
Reputation : 142
Join date : 2011-12-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 22.07.13 23:00

@bobbin wrote:kepharel, I don't know why you have put all of the 'second' forensic analysis report up, which we have looked at, and analysed, a long time ago, when it was clearly discussed that this 'second' version, which is completely at odds with the 'first' forensic version, was a possible 'whitewashing'.
Martin Grimes clearly holds that his dogs 'indicate' where to look further. He does not make any further claims. The dogs marked where forensic evidence was subsequently found.
Given the UK forensic labs 'about face' it is fortunate, it would seem, that the Portuguese kept some samples back for analysis with other forensic labs, and that information could well be in the 'withheld' information.
Furthermore, regarding the patio door blinds, whether they were closed on the 3rd May, or not:
Only one person (Rachel Oldfield) claims they were closed.
All of the other statements imply either directly or indirectly that they were open.
Furthermore, there is no reference from anyone, including Mrs. Fenn, that the blinds were 'opened or heard to be opening', when the search for Madeleine began.
On the weight of statements claiming the patio blinds to be open/closed, I think it is wrong to assume that they were closed, and to make any assumption/speculation that the front door 'must have been used' since the Rachel Oldfield recollection could be either erroneous or deliberately misleading.


Hi Bobbin,

Well it may have been the second report, and I guess a conspiracy theorist might claim it's a volte face and whitewash, but it is the final report, and as such is 'fact' and allowable for this competition. I also think there is nothing in the PJ forensics report published that fundamentally contradicts the second FSS report.  The idea that the PJ are holding something back is just unsubstantiated speculation and that isn't allowed for this version of the competition.

As for the roller shutter blinds, I never mentioned them, but I have been looking closely at the PJ statements of the Tapas et al while I've been time-lining and I shall probs have more to say about the ups and downs of roller shutter blinds in the near future.

Regards
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Snifferdog on 23.07.13 6:55

@Lance De Boils wrote:All that coming and going, one after another...
...the only time I've ever been with a group of people who carried on like that, they were all nipping off for a "line".

I'm wondering (purely wondering), if RM came back because he's the local fixer and was told a bulk order was requested - so he dashed back to make an easy few hundred quid.

How much is a gram of cocaine these days? £50-60? if 8 x adults wanted 1 each, say, that'd be £400. Chances are that for a few days, they would have had 2 or three times that amount. (Depends how "into it" they were/are.) That'd make it worth RM jumping on a flight back. Possibly. Perhaps. Not saying anything. Just saying. imo etc.

I would actually be more inclined to believe it was the adults who were on "meds". As I posted before, all the coming and going sounds like people nipping off to snort lines of coke.
But of course, they wouldn't be able to say that, so they made out they had to keep going back to the apts to check the children.
Now, supposing one of them prepared a few lines ready for the others and supposing Maddie had ingested some which led to her death... They certainly wouldn't want a post-mortem carried out under those circumstances, would they? Otherwise they'd ALL be in serious trouble. A bunch of medics on coke? One of them being a cardiologist? Ooh, the fallout from that would be huge.
All pure speculation on my part, of course. Just throwing a theory out there. 




whmon wrote:


If this is true then it would explain why two doctors couldn't seem to earn enough money to pay their mortgage. I had always wondered why the combined salaries of two doctors wasn't enough to pay their bills, a coke habit would explain that nicely.


sallypelt wrote:What has baffled me from the very beginning, is how two parents can go out to the Tapas bar and act normal, knowing their daughter was dead. The only way they could have done this, IMO, is, that they must have taken some sort of medication to keep them calm. I can't think of any other explanation.

Cristobell wrote:

That was something that used to baffle me.  However, I have read Kate's book and am astonished at how calm they have been in interviews while their lives were falling to pieces behind the scenes.  She gives detailed descriptions of Gerry throwing himself on the ground in despair and herself hitting walls and bed frames - yet if we tally the dates to Gerry's blogs all was well in Pleasantville and their interviews were word perfect.

  Lance De Boils Yesterday at 11:51 pm

[Continuing the speculation....]

And IF that is what they were up to, Dianne Webster was probably completely oblivious to it. I doubt the Paynes would have used their own apartment in case DW found out what they were doing. More likely they'd have gone into one of the others' apartments to do theirs. imo.

 
  parapono Today at 12:01 am

[continuing the speculation...]
RM could have supplied it...., very busy just after arrival:-) Local contacts..
They could hardly have taken it with them on the plane.
just speculation...


  whmon Today at 1:14 am

This could possibly explain the F*** OFF I'm not here to enjoy myself comment. I've just googled cocaine side effects and among other things irritability and mood swings are listed.


Lance De Boils, I do love your very appropriate name!  IMO. I think you have a very plausible theory there and your post and other contributions to it deserves to be quoted and nudged up again!  It would be a huge shame for it to get buried under some long posts or other.  (You are well on your way to first prize methinks!) high5
avatar
Snifferdog

Posts : 1008
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : here

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 23.07.13 17:58

If we could only get past the sniffer dogs, this would be so much easier..... 

On 5th may 2007 in Alvor Richard McCluskey (rated by the PJ as credible) and Susan McClusky see a white van blocking traffic lights while on holiday in Alvor one dark street lit night, and a dark skinned bloke staggering up a bank with a child aged between 3 to 4 years over his shoulder before turning right and into a complex. but it was clear that the child was not making any noise, or crying, or appear in distress. There was no movement at all.
 
Then a woman Susan says she later recognises as Kate (I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.) get out of a dark vehicle wearing a worried expression and a bloke who seemed unable to remove a mobile phone from his ear even as he talked to her, confirming to her they were looking for a man with a child. He had seen the man hit the girl. (see RussianDoll post)
  
Then an eerie echo of the smith sighting from R Mc. “another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
 
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.”  Let’s remind ourselves of the Martin Smith sighting...I know...I know...yawn:
 
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
 
 
We also have Carole Tranmer Fenn’s Rogatory about a creepy ‘5A very softly very slowly gate closing looking left and right guy’ from Aunt Pamela Fenn’s apartment at about 6:30 pm with short cropped hair.
 
And finally  Linsa Rosendale from Kent sitting at traffic lights in a Renault Scenic in Huelva Spain sees Gerry, and Kate at traffic lights with a semi shaven headed guy in the back on 3rd August 2007.
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 23.07.13 19:08

Soz about the final para in my last post...it was the McCanns in the Scenic, obviously not Linsa.  But one final thought for all you abduction provers out there.  Would it be true to say that by accepting the final FSS report AND assuming the McCanns were complicit in the abduction of their own child, the only evidence that needs to be knocked over is the sniffer dogs.  Roller shutter blinds, locked/unlocked door/patio doors, seemingly impossible time frames...it all goes out of the window, excuse the unintentional pun....maybe. affraid
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Snifferdog on 23.07.13 19:54

Yes............getting past the Sniffer dogs ................but ya can't....... yes
avatar
Snifferdog

Posts : 1008
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : here

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 23.07.13 22:05

Actually, I think I can...but I just have to put my thoughts in order tomorrow...winkwink
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

McCluskey sighting

Post by Hicks on 23.07.13 22:16

@Kepharel wrote:If we could only get past the sniffer dogs, this would be so much easier..... 

On 5th may 2007 in Alvor Richard McCluskey (rated by the PJ as credible) and Susan McClusky see a white van blocking traffic lights while on holiday in Alvor one dark street lit night, and a dark skinned bloke staggering up a bank with a child aged between 3 to 4 years over his shoulder before turning right and into a complex. but it was clear that the child was not making any noise, or crying, or appear in distress. There was no movement at all.
 
Then a woman Susan says she later recognises as Kate (I say this because of her slight build, high cheekbones and her eyes and hairstyle.) get out of a dark vehicle wearing a worried expression and a bloke who seemed unable to remove a mobile phone from his ear even as he talked to her, confirming to her they were looking for a man with a child. He had seen the man hit the girl. (see RussianDoll post)
  
Then an eerie echo of the smith sighting from R Mc. “another thing which has played on my mind is the coverage of Mr McCann walking off the aeroplane holding one of his young children. The way he was holding the child over his left shoulder reminded me of the man carrying the child from the white van in Portugal.
 
Although I could not describe the male I'd seen in Portugal because he had his back to me, it was the particular way Mr. McCann held the child that made me think. He held the child over his left shoulder with his left arm supporting the child?s weight.”  Let’s remind ourselves of the Martin Smith sighting...I know...I know...yawn:
 
It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
 
 
We also have Carole Tranmer Fenn’s Rogatory about a creepy ‘5A very softly very slowly gate closing looking left and right guy’ from Aunt Pamela Fenn’s apartment at about 6:30 pm with short cropped hair.
 
And finally  Linsa Rosendale from Kent sitting at traffic lights in a Renault Scenic in Huelva Spain sees Gerry, and Kate at traffic lights with a semi shaven headed guy in the back on 3rd August 2007.

 Hi Kepharel, I think I am correct when I state that the McCluskey sighting was investigated by the PJ, the McCluskeys had taken down the number plate of the vehicle, it turned out to be a Polish couple.
avatar
Hicks

Posts : 976
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2013-07-16
Age : 59

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Lance De Boils on 23.07.13 22:30

A Ukrainian couple and their 4 yo daughter.
The woman looks like Kate.
The man looks like Gerry.
The girl looks like Madeleine (from her Mother's statement.)
And when the PJ spoke to the Mother, the girl was out of the country "for some time" with her Father.
Of course, they'd taken passports etc with them.
avatar
Lance De Boils

Posts : 806
Reputation : 16
Join date : 2011-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 23.07.13 23:14

Thank you Lance and hicks,

I take your word for it, and walk away a little more wise to the facts and will update my info accordingly.  That's what these forums are for...sharing and advancing understanding flag 

It doesn't affect my attempt at overcoming the sniffer dog evidence though, and I think I can still put forward a theory based on fact and reasonable assumption.  I'm just glad you didn't come up with such damning evidence against my potential ability to dismiss much of the 'circumstantial' evidence which I suggested could be done under certain scenarios.

I've had a few beers and will put forward my ideas for this competition with a clearer mind tomorrow.smilie
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Can you come up with a REALLY credible scenario ? NEW Competition opens today. NEW RULES

Post by Kepharel on 24.07.13 10:22

Well, here we go!  I am going to try to put forward a specific theory based upon fact and reasonable assumption.  The assumptions have to be able to work with the facts; on the other hand, the facts have to be, up to a point, non- malleable; they can’t be altered to suit a theory.  The facts are the dog, the theory is the tail and of course, the tail never wags the dog. In this respect my ‘tail’ of a theory is entirely dispensable.  Just as I did for my last spoof entry in the previous competition I must make the point that I DON’T BELIEVE the theory I am putting forward to be true.  I just like puzzles and competitions gm 
 
So what evidence is PeterMac asking me to knock over…lets recap on the important ones:
 
1 You MUST include, or account for, or explain away, any forensic evidence, or lack of it.
2 You MUST include, or account for, or explain away, the evidence provided by the dogs
3 You MUST include, or account for, or explain away, the evidence provided by independent witnesses
 
Forensic evidence
 
Much as it might irk some peeps here that the FSS forensic evidence was somehow doctored, that can’t be proven.  If it came to a trial in a court of law it is a sad fact that the second FSS report will be relied upon as evidence and not the first.  From my reading, the second report was pretty much unequivocal in dismissing blood traces on tiles etc.. in the apartment. The prosecution can neither rely on the Portuguese Forensic as they are equally found wanting in their findings as to possible guilt. I'm sorry but, much as I would wish it to be so, I'm never going to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the contamination around the sofa and window, on the floor and on the walls, and wherever else, are the blood of Madeleine McCann.
 
The Renault Scenic, however, has been a hotly contested one, especially swab 3A and 3B collected from the luggage compartment, in particular the email from John Lowe of the FSS to Stuart Prior at Leicester Police of 3rd September 2007 (for clarity of English it would only score an E for effort IMO).  For the purposes of this competition only, I am wearing my pro-abduction hat remember!!  In summary what it says is there are 20 ‘components’ in Madeleine’s DNA, and, for technical reasons, only 19 will ever show on the ‘chart’ (presumably the graphic output). Now we have to remember that Madeleine’s DNA is a ratio of 50/25/25 for her and each parent. There are 37 components in the sample because there are, at least, three contributors and of these only 15 are of Madeleine.  Therefore out of the 37 components in the sample less than 50% are Madeleine’s.  Lowe then makes the point any individual component of Madeleine is not unique to her, only the combination of them.  Because 50% of her DNA is her parents (25/25) the contributors to the sample could be her, her mother and her father.  The sample was not good enough to be able to tease the three contributions apart and as a result it was too complex for analysis, might have occurred by chance, and does not prove Madeleine was in the Renault Scenic.
 
Independent witnesses
 
Luckily this would only apply to me if my theory was base around, say, that Madeleine went missing any time before 3rd of May, in which case I would hit the buffers with the witness statements of Maria Manuela Antonia Jose who saw Madeleine at 16:30 on the 3rd of May, and Jeronimo Tomas Rodrigues Salcedas who saw her at 16:45 on that day.  As far as I know, there are no independent witnesses out there who have testified that Madeleine was not abducted.
 
The evidence of the Dogs
 
Ah! The dogs!! I can’t dispute the dog alerts, it’s impossible, so there must have been a cadaver in the apartment, and blood.  Or was there?  If you can’t fool the dogs, then how about the predictive instincts of human beings who interpret the data. The question has always been if not Madeleine’s body, who could it have been?  No one else had ever died in the apartment so what other explanation can there be?   What you need to alert Sniffer dogs is the scent of a cadaver and the scent of blood, not necessarily that of Madeleine McCann though. But would a body have to have been physically in the apartment to obtain the alerts. So who has access to cadavers and blood?  Well there are morticians in Funeral parlours, Policemen and Firemen of course, Paramedics, and maybe Cardiovascular Consultants and G.P’s too.
 
Out of that lot who could knowingly obtain a blood sample that they could be 100 % confident was too degraded to provide meaningful DNA analysis: Maybe just Cardiovascular Consultants and G.P’s.  So short of packing a dead body in the holiday suitcase and getting it through HM Customs, which would be risky even at East Midlands airport, how do you bring such things with you?  For those with a weak stomach I might suggest a hand towel or such that had been left on a dead body in a Mortuary for a few days would provide the Cadaver odour, or for those of a stronger constitution, a small body part; a finger, toe, ear.(Yeuch!! But they are surgeons or G.P’s remember).  For contaminated blood, just a small glass phial will do.
 
Why you would want to do such a thing is a whole new topic.  While I have the complete scenario in my mind, I have only typed it up to here.  The reason is that if someone can derail any of these arguments to my own satisfaction, especially the dogs, then anything I might subsequently have to say is invalid and not worth the effort of typing.  So I am going to leave it at this point for a few days to see if anyone can convince me that it ain’t worth the trouble.  Fingers crossed………
avatar
Kepharel

Posts : 130
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum