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Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by aiyoyo on 27.06.13 5:26

Finn wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Purée!

The ingredients for such a scenario, namely the [ever-changing and conflicting] statements of T9 are difficult to combine with a stranger abduction, as are the cadaver alerts in the apartment, on Kate’s clothes and on Cuddlecat.  For the benefit of having the slightest chance to give credibility to the abduction, I have to leave the alerts to the rented car out ;-)
• MO checks windows at 9:00pm – all’s quiet;
• GM goes check the apartment at 9:05pm, see the children fast asleep, spends a “proud father” moment and goes to the toilet [and didn’t flush so as to not wake the little ones?};
• As he exits the apartment via the patio stairs and the little gate, he sees JW walking by so he crosses the street to have a chat *);
• Straight behind him two strangers slip in through the gate [GM and JW intensely engaged in a discussion about tennis and childcare don’t notice].
• Meanwhile inside in the master bedroom the two get into a fight as to which child to abduct. One hits the other hard over the head. Too hard. Chips! He hides the body behind the sofa in the living.
• He then takes the sleeping Madeleine from her bed and carries her out onto the street via de front door, which was not double-locked and could be opened from inside, as he must have know by intuition
• He pushes his remaining luck by not having a car waiting for him outside in the car park and even though he can clearly hear GM and JW talk in the empty and thus quiet street, he turns right and crosses the road quasi in front of them.
• Again neither GM nor JW see him, but JT [whom they see neither] does. But she doesn’t think that there’s something wrong with a stranger carrying a child in Madeleine’s pyjamas and continues on het mission to go and check on her own daughter.
Meanwhile the stranger abductor has hidden the sleeping Madeleine well enough to know that she will neither be found nor wake-up. He returns to the apartment to drag out his mate’s body just before MO enters to check on Madeleine. **))
• At 10:00pm KM enters the apartment and raises the alarm: “Stranger Abduction”!!!!
*) Forget that JW says that HE crossed the road, otherwise it doesn’t work
**) No idea what he did with the body, but he must have found a very good place for it ...

Do I get the prize?

It's very convincing but in order for the cadaver scent to form the friend would need to have been dead for 2 hours or so? So obviously he carried his dead friend into the apartment to begin with. And he could have wiped the cadaver mess up with Kate's clothing.

But I don't think this scenario would pass TM's stringent requirements as there may have been a possibility that Madeleine woke up and wandered off while the abductor went back for his dead friend's body.....

Adding just to explain the cadaver scent.
Here it goes:

- At 9.00 pm a stranger enters through the wall,  about to pick up Maddie, hears someone (Gerry) entering the apt, quick as flash the stranger put an invisibility cloak over himself.

-Gerry sees Maddie fast asleep in recovery position atop the cover, has a proud father moment, sing a song.....
- Meanwhile VoldeMORT who was pursuing the stranger floats through over the hedge, enters ALSO through the wall,narrowly missingGerry who was exiting by the patio door.
- Voldemort could not see his prey (hidden in invisibility) so looks under the sofa, goes into other room looks into the closet, spots the Mrs. checked pants taken a fancy to it ,pick it up, and sniffs it  --  brand marking everything and every spot he's touched and been with his MORT perfume.
-Failing to find the stranger the Lord of Death exits through the wall and floats away.
-The stranger then picks up Maddie, exits from the unlocked patio door, walks through the street in a leisurely manner in quasi view of the trio in the street thinking he cant be seen, little realising his invisibility cloak has been blown away by the strong wind.

Will that do?  Do I get the prize? Or do I have to wait till the last entry is in?

We are counting down the 7 days until Kephazel (Devil Advocate) who precipitates this challenge comes up with his pro abduction theory, aren't we?
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by bobbin on 27.06.13 7:29

@aiyoyo wrote:
Finn wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Purée!

The ingredients for such a scenario, namely the [ever-changing and conflicting] statements of T9 are difficult to combine with a stranger abduction, as are the cadaver alerts in the apartment, on Kate’s clothes and on Cuddlecat.  For the benefit of having the slightest chance to give credibility to the abduction, I have to leave the alerts to the rented car out ;-)
• MO checks windows at 9:00pm – all’s quiet;
• GM goes check the apartment at 9:05pm, see the children fast asleep, spends a “proud father” moment and goes to the toilet [and didn’t flush so as to not wake the little ones?};
• As he exits the apartment via the patio stairs and the little gate, he sees JW walking by so he crosses the street to have a chat *);
• Straight behind him two strangers slip in through the gate [GM and JW intensely engaged in a discussion about tennis and childcare don’t notice].
• Meanwhile inside in the master bedroom the two get into a fight as to which child to abduct. One hits the other hard over the head. Too hard. Chips! He hides the body behind the sofa in the living.
• He then takes the sleeping Madeleine from her bed and carries her out onto the street via de front door, which was not double-locked and could be opened from inside, as he must have know by intuition
• He pushes his remaining luck by not having a car waiting for him outside in the car park and even though he can clearly hear GM and JW talk in the empty and thus quiet street, he turns right and crosses the road quasi in front of them.
• Again neither GM nor JW see him, but JT [whom they see neither] does. But she doesn’t think that there’s something wrong with a stranger carrying a child in Madeleine’s pyjamas and continues on het mission to go and check on her own daughter.
Meanwhile the stranger abductor has hidden the sleeping Madeleine well enough to know that she will neither be found nor wake-up. He returns to the apartment to drag out his mate’s body just before MO enters to check on Madeleine. **))
• At 10:00pm KM enters the apartment and raises the alarm: “Stranger Abduction”!!!!
*) Forget that JW says that HE crossed the road, otherwise it doesn’t work
**) No idea what he did with the body, but he must have found a very good place for it ...

Do I get the prize?

It's very convincing but in order for the cadaver scent to form the friend would need to have been dead for 2 hours or so? So obviously he carried his dead friend into the apartment to begin with. And he could have wiped the cadaver mess up with Kate's clothing.

But I don't think this scenario would pass TM's stringent requirements as there may have been a possibility that Madeleine woke up and wandered off while the abductor went back for his dead friend's body.....

Adding just to explain the cadaver scent.
Here it goes:

- At 9.00 pm a stranger enters through the wall,  about to pick up Maddie, hears someone (Gerry) entering the apt, quick as flash the stranger put an invisibility cloak over himself.

-Gerry sees Maddie fast asleep in recovery position atop the cover, has a proud father moment, sing a song.....
- Meanwhile VoldeMORT who was pursuing the stranger floats through over the hedge, enters ALSO through the wall,narrowly missingGerry who was exiting by the patio door.
- Voldemort could not see his prey (hidden in invisibility) so looks under the sofa, goes into other room looks into the closet, spots the Mrs. checked pants taken a fancy to it ,pick it up, and sniffs it  --  brand marking everything and every spot he's touched and been with his MORT perfume.
-Failing to find the stranger the Lord of Death exits through the wall and floats away.
-The stranger then picks up Maddie, exits from the unlocked patio door, walks through the street in a leisurely manner in quasi view of the trio in the street thinking he cant be seen, little realising his invisibility cloak has been blown away by the strong wind.

Will that do?  Do I get the prize? Or do I have to wait till the last entry is in?

We are counting down the 7 days until Kephazel (Devil Advocate) who precipitates this challenge comes up with his pro abduction theory, aren't we?
Well done aiyoyo, Your explanation is obviously absolutely correct.
This is indeed what the police, the courts and the general public would accept as the perfect explanation for how Madeleine disappeared. I think you would have won the prize except for the one small fact that there was no 'strong' wind that night.spin

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by plebgate on 27.06.13 8:23

@Cristobell wrote:I'm not attempting this, think it is impossible, lol, but just wanted to add, the McCanns said the shutters and window may have been a red herring, following their disastrous attempt to ban Goncalo's book in January 2010.  That particular trial was hugely damaging to their credibility and the 'red herring' update on their web seemed to be a desperate attempt at damage control.

We should also remember that initially they claimed the apartment was locked and they checked on the kids by going through the front door with a key.  When it was proved the window was not broken into, they changed their story and said the patio doors were left open. Due to the miniscule amount of time for the abduction to have taken place, Gerry then claimed the abductor may have been in the apartment when he did his check.


Say no more. :thumbup

Why on earth would any abductor want to leave a red herring about the shutters and window?

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by plebgate on 27.06.13 8:28

I don't think any poster on this forum will be able to come up with a credible pro abduction theory based on the information we have , so I wont be counting down the seven days.

Nobody has managed it in six years and one will not be given within seven days imo.


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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by aiyoyo on 27.06.13 8:41

@bobbin wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
Finn wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Purée!

The ingredients for such a scenario, namely the [ever-changing and conflicting] statements of T9 are difficult to combine with a stranger abduction, as are the cadaver alerts in the apartment, on Kate’s clothes and on Cuddlecat.  For the benefit of having the slightest chance to give credibility to the abduction, I have to leave the alerts to the rented car out ;-)
• MO checks windows at 9:00pm – all’s quiet;
• GM goes check the apartment at 9:05pm, see the children fast asleep, spends a “proud father” moment and goes to the toilet [and didn’t flush so as to not wake the little ones?};
• As he exits the apartment via the patio stairs and the little gate, he sees JW walking by so he crosses the street to have a chat *);
• Straight behind him two strangers slip in through the gate [GM and JW intensely engaged in a discussion about tennis and childcare don’t notice].
• Meanwhile inside in the master bedroom the two get into a fight as to which child to abduct. One hits the other hard over the head. Too hard. Chips! He hides the body behind the sofa in the living.
• He then takes the sleeping Madeleine from her bed and carries her out onto the street via de front door, which was not double-locked and could be opened from inside, as he must have know by intuition
• He pushes his remaining luck by not having a car waiting for him outside in the car park and even though he can clearly hear GM and JW talk in the empty and thus quiet street, he turns right and crosses the road quasi in front of them.
• Again neither GM nor JW see him, but JT [whom they see neither] does. But she doesn’t think that there’s something wrong with a stranger carrying a child in Madeleine’s pyjamas and continues on het mission to go and check on her own daughter.
Meanwhile the stranger abductor has hidden the sleeping Madeleine well enough to know that she will neither be found nor wake-up. He returns to the apartment to drag out his mate’s body just before MO enters to check on Madeleine. **))
• At 10:00pm KM enters the apartment and raises the alarm: “Stranger Abduction”!!!!
*) Forget that JW says that HE crossed the road, otherwise it doesn’t work
**) No idea what he did with the body, but he must have found a very good place for it ...

Do I get the prize?

It's very convincing but in order for the cadaver scent to form the friend would need to have been dead for 2 hours or so? So obviously he carried his dead friend into the apartment to begin with. And he could have wiped the cadaver mess up with Kate's clothing.

But I don't think this scenario would pass TM's stringent requirements as there may have been a possibility that Madeleine woke up and wandered off while the abductor went back for his dead friend's body.....

Adding just to explain the cadaver scent.
Here it goes:

- At 9.00 pm a stranger enters through the wall,  about to pick up Maddie, hears someone (Gerry) entering the apt, quick as flash the stranger put an invisibility cloak over himself.

-Gerry sees Maddie fast asleep in recovery position atop the cover, has a proud father moment, sing a song.....
- Meanwhile VoldeMORT who was pursuing the stranger floats through over the hedge, enters ALSO through the wall,narrowly missingGerry who was exiting by the patio door.
- Voldemort could not see his prey (hidden in invisibility) so looks under the sofa, goes into other room looks into the closet, spots the Mrs. checked pants taken a fancy to it ,pick it up, and sniffs it  --  brand marking everything and every spot he's touched and been with his MORT perfume.
-Failing to find the stranger the Lord of Death exits through the wall and floats away.
-The stranger then picks up Maddie, exits from the unlocked patio door, walks through the street in a leisurely manner in quasi view of the trio in the street thinking he cant be seen, little realising his invisibility cloak has been blown away by the strong wind.

Will that do?  Do I get the prize? Or do I have to wait till the last entry is in?

We are counting down the 7 days until Kephazel (Devil Advocate) who precipitates this challenge comes up with his pro abduction theory, aren't we?
Well done aiyoyo, Your explanation is obviously absolutely correct.
This is indeed what the police, the courts and the general public would accept as the perfect explanation for how Madeleine disappeared. I think you would have won the prize except for the one small fact that there was no 'strong' wind that night.spin

I think you could be wrong there.

According to fragrant Kate it was a cold night and wind whooshed open the curtains which she demonstrates gesturing with both arms.
Perhaps someone good at posting vids will come along and put up said vid.
If wind was strong enough to whoosh curtains that night then the cloak can easily be blown away..and we know the strange wizards hands were occupied to prevent it flying away.

I wish the Police will speed up and tell us whether they are still looking for the wizard who snatched Maddie.
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 27.06.13 9:48

@justathought wrote:a "team" committed to abducting Madeleine or one of the twins or even all of them. awaits their opportunity, which is after the McCann's have left for the restaurant. but they did not act quickly as they knew and/or were worried that they may be spotted by the rest of the tapas party heading to join the McCann's at  to the restaurant. they worked as a team, one entering the unlocked patio doors. the other waiting outside the bedroom window for madeleine or a twin to be passed through. the window within Madeleine's bedroom was opened (with gloves being worn) to facilitate passage of Madeleine  as were the shutters from inside. again with no fingerprints being left  the "team" were disturbed whilst trying to stage an abduction, the one inside hid somewhere , when GM checked, when he left, they resumed there kidnap.  the team member inside passing madeleine to there accomplice and then escaping via the front door or patio door when the no one was around.
dont particularly like to write the above as think the mccanns are far from innocent. but scenarios were asked for

The person outside would have been waiting there since 9pm? (Because the person inside would have been inside before GM disturbed them at 9.05pm) So why didn't MO, at the front of the apartment block listening at windows at 9pm, spot whoever was waiting outside?

Otherwise, the person inside must have said, be there at 9.12 precisely, how were they supposed to know exactly what time the checks were at?

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 27.06.13 9:55

@PeterMac wrote:
Off topic but
Cocaine is not a sedative. It is a stimulant.
Cocaine's effects appear almost immediately after a single dose, and disappear within a few minutes or hours. Taken in small amounts (up to 100 mg), cocaine usually makes the user feel euphoric, energetic, talkative, and mentally alert, especially to the sensations of sight, sound, and touch. It can also temporarily decrease the need for food and sleep. . .  
sudden death can occur on the first use of cocaine or unexpectedly thereafter. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizures followed by respiratory arrest.[/quote]

But perhaps nobody gave Madeleine a sedative at all. Perhaps she took an illegal drug dose herself, perhaps copying her mother, who wanted to stay awake for an evening out. Or perhaps her mother was distracted for a few mins? This scenario has happened so often before. Perhaps this was the thing they all tried to cover up?

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Lance De Boils on 27.06.13 10:54

Every scenario I can come up with involves members of the T9 being involved in some way or another. There is no other way. Not that I can see anyway.
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by tigger on 27.06.13 12:19

@Lance De Boils wrote:Every scenario I can come up with involves members of the T9 being involved in some way or another. There is no other way. Not that I can see anyway.

That was very much part of the argument at the start - they couldn't all be lying. Soon enough we found out they could and very, very likely, did.

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Fictional Scenario

Post by whmon on 27.06.13 13:17

Ok, so there is a highly organised child abduction ring in operation and MBM was targeted by them. Abductor 'A' (maybe armed with a skeleton key) was surprised to find that the patio door was unlocked and gained entry. While attempting to remove the screaming and kicking child he did not hear one of the group (guess which one) enter the apartment to do the 'check'. MBM was screaming 'Daddy, Daddy' and the outraged 'group member' in justifiable anger used far more than reasonable force and abductor 'A' ended up dead. The corpse was hidden behind the sofa and later moved to the wardrobe. Cadaver scent was accidentally transferred to various items of clothing and the toy cat.

Later that night, the corpse was disposed of during which time KM slept with the children to comfort them. Everybody had to appear normal the next day as a homicide had been committed. Meanwhile, because abductor 'A' had not returned from his mission abductor 'B' was dispatched the following night. The patio door was locked this time so he used his skeleton key to get inside. The children was asleep, having been sedated due to the traumatic events of the previous evening. Abductor  'B' quickly removed MBM (after opening the curtains in the dark to check area outside was clear). On his way he was spotted but hurried off.

The Smith family meanwhile spotted abductor 'C' carrying a second child who had been targeted and abducted elsewhere and brought to Portugal to be transported along with MBM to their final destination.

Some time later, the body of abductor 'A' was moved in the hired car to a more discrete location. Then I ate hay with a donkey.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by PeterMac on 27.06.13 13:31

I've just seen another lovely one
Firstly, and most importantly, the children are in the creche / eating a meal / asleep in bed.

Gerry is playing tennis, which he hates as he is actually 'not here to enjoy himself''.

Kate is mostly doing chores, washing out stains from pyjamas (even though there are several sets for a one week holiday), getting repairs organised to shutters and washing machines and shopping  (what can she say, it's the Gerry touch?').

She unfortunately manages to forget to buy those errr . . .what are they called errr . . . toothbrushes for the children, but luckily snaps up some sea bass and New Zealand wine which she carries in a bag which isn't blue and err . . . isn't big enough to hide a . . . err tennis racquet in. 
When she gets back to the apartment she puts her constant companion Cuddlecat on a high shelf while she unpacks. 
The fridge may have something wrong with it according to David Payne who knows this even though he only puts his head around the patio door, so she puts the sea bass behind the sofa, quite close to where Madeleine may have had a nosebleed or hurt herself (her own fault, of course.  Why would it be our fault ?).  
She then has a shower. 
She then has a bath. 
Mr

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by morse on 27.06.13 13:43

That is without a doubt the best one yet- clapping
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by wjk on 27.06.13 14:03

Very, very funny. Excellent! laughat
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by lj on 27.06.13 15:33

spit coffee
@PeterMac wrote:I've just seen another lovely one
Firstly, and most importantly, the children are in the creche / eating a meal / asleep in bed.

Gerry is playing tennis, which he hates as he is actually 'not here to enjoy himself''.

Kate is mostly doing chores, washing out stains from pyjamas (even though there are several sets for a one week holiday), getting repairs organised to shutters and washing machines and shopping  (what can she say, it's the Gerry touch?').

She unfortunately manages to forget to buy those errr . . .what are they called errr . . . toothbrushes for the children, but luckily snaps up some sea bass and New Zealand wine which she carries in a bag which isn't blue and err . . . isn't big enough to hide a . . . err tennis racquet in. 
When she gets back to the apartment she puts her constant companion Cuddlecat on a high shelf while she unpacks. 
The fridge may have something wrong with it according to David Payne who knows this even though he only puts his head around the patio door, so she puts the sea bass behind the sofa, quite close to where Madeleine may have had a nosebleed or hurt herself (her own fault, of course.  Why would it be our fault ?).  
She then has a shower. 
She then has a bath. 
Mr

shit happens

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Post by Praiaaa on 27.06.13 15:42

PeterMac, that has had me literally laughing out loud - esp seabass behind the sofa   Mrs

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by PeterMac on 27.06.13 15:49

That is what really got me when I read it.  It is not mine, by the way.
It is like that Fawlty Towers episode with the corpse in the bed and the kipper down his jumper.   "Oh, that's where it went ... !"


But it follows the rules, and allows the evidence in the statements to stand, so is allowed.

I can't wait for the sequel, now that the scene has been set !

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by sheila.edwards on 27.06.13 16:41

well I was going to enter/brainstorm/investigation earlier,but with all the hu ha re facebook it put me off.

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The abduction of Madeleine McCann

Post by Kepharel on 27.06.13 19:46

The Abduction of Madeleine McCann
 
Introduction
 
Madeleine McCann, the eldest daughter of Gerry and Kate McCann went missing from apartment 5a of the Mark Warner Holiday complex in Praia Da Luz on the evening of 3rd of May 2007.  That much is fact according to both the parents and the Policia Judicaria (PJ). Where they disagree is in the manner of her disappearance.  The parents have maintained from the very beginning that she was abducted, while the PJ believe she died in the apartment and that the accident or possible crime was covered up by both parents who at some point disposed of her body.
 
While the physical evidence supporting her death appears to be overwhelming, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty and it is possible that an abduction of the child really did take place.  Below I set out my reasons why her abduction from Apt 5A to be no less likely than her death. 
 
Before looking at that evidence it might be illuminating to take a quick look at the family at the centre of this tragedy to see if any clue may be found there that might provide an explanation to the events culminating in Madeleine’s abduction.
 
Kate McCann
 
No biography here please! Just some facts that may have a bearing on the disappearance.  All three of the McCanns were born as a result of IVF treatment, and in the case of Madeleine this was a particularly stressful and lengthy process.  In the book Madeleine Kate tells us
 
“I tried not to talk about how hard all this was for me, even to Gerry.  I didn’t want to come across as mad or obsessed.  In reality though, I think most women become a bit fixated…” and “ I embarked on almost a year of surgery with laser treatment and hormonal injections, all to no avail”
 
Following this there was the disappointment of frozen embryos not surviving implantation.  And so it goes on..
 
Finally, when Madeleine did come into this world she became a source of 4 months of parental hell with bouts of colic, screaming episodes, and constant demands for attention and sleepless nights.  So what would this abject stress have on someone with a personality like Kate McCann? Indeed, what kind of personality is she?
 
 Blacksmith describes her thus
 
The cultural poverty that she and her husband share and which makes them describe – and, I think, experience – situations of extreme elemental drama in cheap soap-opera terms makes one hesitate before admitting that Shakespeare frequently comes to mind. Yet the sheer power and determination with which she sent hope and strength coursing back into her husband's limp, sobbing body on the night of September 6, for instance, is that of Lady Macbeth in its purest form. She is an extraordinary woman.
 
Whether she is quite sane, in the commonly understood sense of the word, is another matter. When the PJ officers accused her of blacking out on May 3, of not being in control of her actions and feelings, they were, as I have written elsewhere, very close to the truth of what Kate McCann herself describes in Madeleine – months of believing that she was possessed by an alien force, "a demon", and an accompanying sense of seriously out-of-control fury, in other words psychotic, not neurotic, behaviour. But they clearly believed that such behaviour predated the evening of May 3.
 
Hers are qualities that inspire both admiration and pity. If only they were the whole story! For the record of the last four years shows a deeply unpleasant underside to her complex personality. It is not the evidence she provides in the book of her obvious human weaknesses — vanity amounting to self-obsession, a tendency to attack, sometimes physically, those who provoke her, an obvious pleasure in being indulged associated with a certain financial acquisitiveness: most of us share some of those characteristics and worse. No, it is much more serious: few people mean anything to her at all and those that cross her… People who have helped or served her fare almost as badly as those who have given her trouble.
 
The experienced GNR officers who first appeared on the scene to search for her daughter, less fortunate in their careers than she, men of peasant stock on a poor wage in a poor country, are treated with casual contempt by this erstwhile child of the Liverpool slums: "Tweedledum and Tweedledee", she describes them mockingly, "bewildered and out of their depth". The ghost of harmless old Mrs Fenn, who dared to be concerned for Madeleine's well-being, is invoked to receive a paragraph of gratuitous insult before being despatched back to her grave; Justine McGuinness, having failed Kate McCann's expectations in some obscure way, is tossed aside like a bunch of old flowers.”
 
In other words, a very colourful and obtuse way of reconciling her comments in the book to one of a person with suspect long term mental instability:  And how about Madeleine?  Kate describes her as
 
“extrovert, very active, talkative, smart and relates to other children with great ease.”
 
And from Eileen McCann
 
“That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to”
 
Also, of course there is the question No.41 of 48 unanswered questions which the PJ saw fit to ask for reasons best known to themselves but an obviously leading one nevertheless.
 
41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?”
 
So what else could put additional stress on the family besides the emotional turmoil of bringing up 3 children?  I would offer this from the McCann Fund Fraud site:
 
McCanns were broke in 2007
Back in the summer of 2007 when the McCanns stayed in Portugal for four months following the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, the two wealthy doctors were in financial difficulty. Gerry McCann’s sister Patricia recently revealed that family members helped them to pay the mortgage payments on their house in Rothley, Leicestershire.
Quoted in the Daily Record (here), Patricia Cameron said:
“It is so hard to watch Kate and Gerry push themselves constantly. When Madeleine first went missing, family and friends had to step in to help them pay the mortgage.
“Money is constantly tight but they have to keep going. They will never give up looking and that costs money. Families of the missing still need to pay bills while they search but there is no right to any financial help.”
Back at the end of October 2007, it was revealed that the McCanns had used the fund set up to look for their daughter to pay mortgage payments on their home. This, understandably caused an outrage and their spokesman Clarence Mitchell clarified the situation in a BBC article (here). Mitchell said:
“The fund has always had the ability to assist the family financially if necessary. Kate and Gerry McCann stopped using the fund in September when they were made formal suspects in the case.”
Money, or lack of it, is always a motive in a homicide case. Why did the British Government deny the Portuguese police the necessary financial information on Kate Healy and Gerry McCann? Surely in a homicide case this information was crucial to the investigators in trying to establish if there was a motive behind Madeleine’s disappearance. Patrica Cameron has revealed what a lot of people believed at the time – that Madeleine McCann’s parents were in financial difficulty.
 
In the last paragraph simply substitute abduction for homicide.  Also it would be worth remembering that Mark Warner Resorts are not ones the public would necessarily ascribe to cardiac surgeons and other highly paid medical and assorted professionals.  Setting aside swinger theories and the need to be in a specific place at a specific time, this was definitely a budget holiday for people looking for a bit of sun.
 
And again in Amaral’s ‘Truth Of The Lie’
 
“However, a preliminary response comes to us about the McCanns' financial situation: astonishingly, there are no records of the McCanns holding any credit or debit cards.
 
- That's quite simply not possible!
 
- They don't have credit cards? However, we know that they hold at least two: one which they used to pay for the flights, and a second which was used for the hire of the Renault Scénic.
 
- The English need to sort themselves out. We need the McCanns' financial statements from the start of their holiday in Portugal. It's obvious we're going to have a hard time getting the required details: with such information, it would not be difficult to follow the McCanns' trail, to know about their expenses, their movements, and to draw conclusions from what came up. Meanwhile, Stuart makes another request. He says it would be a good idea to send two rogatory letters: one for the friends and another for the McCann couple. We don't understand this one.
 
FRAUD OR ABUSE OF TRUST?
 
During a more relaxed moment at one of these meetings, I come out with an ill-judged comment. Inopportune or undiplomatic, but this is my reasoning: thinking about the kinds of crime that may have been committed if the McCanns were involved in their daughter's disappearance, something occurs to me. If they were involved in one way or another, then a crime of fraud or abuse of trust is a possibility concerning the fund that was set up to finance the search for Madeleine. Donations have reached nearly 3 million Euros.”
 
Setting aside the sub plot of why much of this information was not forthcoming from the UK and what there was, was probably misleading it does leave scope to consider, at the very least, that their finances were not in the best of health and something had to be done to put the situation straight.”
 
 In Summary
 
Here we have a family, the mother of who finds herself under emotional stress and the whole family unit under financial stress.  She very likely has a personality that due to its narcissistic nature is unable to empathise with her children, who in her eyes have been the cause of so much of this distress.  This is reflected in much discussed Forum posts by her seeming indifference in the welfare of her children at night, and additionally her insistence on placing them in playgroups so that she could pursue her own interest and activities.  Is it any wonder about the lack of emotion during publicity pleas for their daughter’s safe return?  But before the reader says ‘well, such a lack of empathy would be a strong indicator of homicide and less so abduction’ let’s carry on with the argument.
 
Now we can look at the nitty gritty…timelines, inconsistencies, cadaver dogs and all the rest of it.
 
Gerry McCann
 
Before getting into the events of 3rd May 2007 and subsequent goings on it may be worth taking a quick look at Gerry.  There is some evidential basis to show that he has ‘form’ which indicates just as effectively as an experts profiling opinion that he may have a dark side to his character.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Firstly the infamous CATS file and here I quote from the PJ files:
 
 
03 Cartas Rogatorias Vol III Page 27
 
Leicestershire Police Force
 
From: DC443 J.N. HUGHES
 
To: SIO, Operation Task
Department: Main Crime Unit
 
Date: 16th May 2008
Refª
 
Subject: Background Information- Gerald McCANN
 
Dear Sirs
 
In response to your letter of request, I can provide the following information regarding the above-mentioned subject
 
Gerald McCann was born on June 5, 1968 in Scotland.
 
He is the bearer of British passport No **********.

He lives with his wife and children at Orchard House, 5 The Crescent, Rothley, Leicestershire, LE7 7RW.
 
The house is subject to a mortgage for the amount of GBP 323.493 with the Northern Rock Bank.
 
There is no report or statement of bank credit cards listed in the research carried out. However I was alerted to the fact that if an individuals maintains an open account with the same bank or a credit card for a long period of time, these details do not appear in this type of research.
 
He works for the NHS as a cardiologist at Glenfield hospital………..
 
………………A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system. A consultation with the DC Soand from the department in question confirms that this is just a file reference, but as a complement to Operation Task system for the purpose of reference, if any investigation should be necessary by the department. No work has been done on the basis of this file.


Also, helpfully, from the Forum:
 
 
A CATS record will be created for every child abuse related referral received at the CAIU or where an invitation to attend a child protection case conference or case conference review is received. A CATS record will also be created when a police check request has been received from a partner agency.

When a CATS investigation is allocated to an officer for investigation, they will ensure that a detailed ‘initial investigation details and summary’ log will be completed. This log entry should contain specific details of the allegation and the intended course of action for the investigating officer.

 
Again, setting aside why the file was empty, the fact that it exists at all is suggestive that something wasn’t quite right with this Family.
 
Another more damning piece of evidence comes from witness statements submitted by the Gaspar’s, which I am not going to quote verbatim here on the basis they are and have been the subject of endless debate and analysis throughout the internet.
 
However this does lead me on to the character David Payne, one of the ‘Tapas 7’
Kate tells us in her book of the start of her friendship with Fiona and David Payne in December of 2000, and that the couple became two of Kate and Gerry’s closes friends. It soon became a regular occurrence for them to enjoy group family holidays together, along with other friends.
 
So, beside the Gaspars, is there anything else that might lead one to believe there is something potentially unsavoury about DP.  Here, it is time to introduce Yvonne Warren who made the following observations to the PJ in her witness statement, helpfully supplied to me by Candyfloss.  The following extracts apply
 
Statement of José Monteiro, Inspector, 12 June 2007, to: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral

Evidence to be found in the files, Volume X111 Pages 3422 - 3424


………… At around
9.00am, she met the McCann couple, next to the apartment from where the child had disappeared, accompanied by a third person, a male, who seemed quite familiar to her.

This third person of the group appeared to be an intimate friend of the family as he was the one who, when the media arrived, began to explain what was happening and answering questions, thereby saving the couple from this upset. Afterwards, she further confirmed his closeness to the family when she saw him taking care of the couple’s twins, also small children. She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child, as she was visibly upset with the situation. ………………….


However, the third individual [the family friend] overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her. This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help - an action that appeared quite strange to her. ……………….. During this time, she saw the third individual twice more: Firstly, when he was accompanying an older woman and the McCann twins, demonstrating in this way the trust that the couple had in him by letting him take care of their two children. On the second occasion, he accompanied what appeared to her to be plain clothes police officers. 

Yvonne Martin describes the third individual as follows: Aged about 35 years, of about 1.80m (5’ 11”) in height, of normal physical appearance, having short, dark hair, using graduated glasses of small dimensions with rectangular lenses, having a round face, presenting a scar above his eyebrow and on his left cheek, speaking with a Southern English accent, wearing light trousers, cream or beige coloured, and a dark polo shirt. When she was back home, following the case on English television, she saw the same individual and this time, her initial doubt faded and she concluded that she had seen that face in the course of her professional activity in child protection, …………………….


Witness Statement of Yvonne Martin,
13 June 2007, 12noon

Profession: Social Services and Child Protection
Found in the files: Volume XIII Pages 3425 – 3428

[NOTE: The witness was accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese].

She says that she has lived in
Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal and for the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works. During the past month of May, or more precisely on 4 May 2007, the witness was in Portugal on holidays, when at about 7.00pm, she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY News) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on 3 May 2007.

As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to
Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple. She arrived there at about 9.30am……………She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared…………

She went over to the group and identified herself. Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple. ……….. The third person never identified himself. Upon the witness asking, the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family. She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her. 

…………..As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied: ‘Yes’. She confirmed that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and ‘get’ his child.

 …………. the witness noticed that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials, issued by the British government, to calm them down. Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.

…………………. At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time. 

After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else. The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal. As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.

[Yvonne Martin is shown photographs of Dr David Payne]

........Upon seeing the photographs, she recognised David Anthony Payne, an individual who appeared in several photographs, as being the person she referred to in her statements and who she supposedly had known on another occasion.

STATEMENT OF YVONNE WARREN MARTIN -
14 November 2007

This is taken from Volume XIII, pages 3430 to 3433 of the Portuguese Police files:
Places worked:
Gateshead, South Shields, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, York, Hull, North Tyneside and Plymouth, Devon. Profession: Qualified Social Worker and Child Care Manager.

 • What she states in respect of the individual who was close to Madeleine’s parents when she met with them, and who was later identified as David Payne, reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual was involved in a situation related to a professional activity of the deponent. ……… She continues to think that the same individual is known to her but cannot state the particular situation.


………………..Associating this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 percent of cases of children’s disappearance, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it her duty to inform the police of this. She did this anonymously because she did not want to be harassed by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type with a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child. 

• She declares that one of her principal claims when she wrote the anonymous letter is that the British police checked paedophile registers or child abusers and if David Payne was on that list. And nothing more was said…

 
OK, Paolo Rebelo decided on 14th November 2007 that Yvonne’s statements could add nothing to the investigation, but that does not invalidate the sense that something was not quite right in the character of David Payne.  A 7 year friendship with the equally suspicious personality of Gerry McCann gives a long time for an association of the pair to develop and synchronise some possibly unsavoury little peccadilloes.
 
3rd May 2007 and Subsequent Timelines
 
In Amaral’ book we are told that 2 lists representing the timeline of events that evening were handed to the first police officer to arrive at the scene, then sometime between 4th and 10th May a further typed list was handed to the police.  They are supposed to show the movements of the group during the critical times between when they assembled for their meal at 8.45pm and when Kate raised the alarm at 10.00pm.
 
Prior to this, on that day there had been a visit to the beach by a number of the group, Kate was seen there by them jogging, and between 6.00pm and 7.00pm most of the group were snoozing in their apartments.
 
I have never understood the almost pathological examination of the timelines that day by anyone and everyone on the net and elsewhere.  Why? Because everyone, including the PJ know it’s all a farrago of lies.  It is why the PJ wanted a reconstruction and their failure to achieve this ultimately led to the shelving of the case.  The PJ knew the timeline was impossible.
 
So what is the point in comparing and highlighting inconsistencies in 3versions of pre-pared witness lies and their statements in PJ and UK rogatory interviews when any of the 5 documents contains barely one iota of truth, other than to say?
 
‘Look…this lie doesn’t correspond with that lie, they must be telling lies about their lies so which version of the lies is true?’
 
Is there anything about the timelines that evening which can be relied on? The 4 best candidates are
 

  • The 8.45pm start and 10.00pm close of the meal.
  • Jeremy Wilkins conversation with Gerry McCann at around 9.10pm.
  • The Smith sighting at about 10.00pm in Luz Town of an individual carrying a child who looked ‘deeply asleep’ walking towards the beach.
  • Phone call to GNR at 10.50pm reporting a missing girl.

 
Another part of the timeline story centres around mobile phone records, which are telling more for their absence than their presence.  The problem here, of course, is they are unambiguous about time; start of call, length of call, to whom, and cannot be frittered, massaged and fudged away to suit the guilty.  The best that can be done by the guilty is to make them vanish.
 
For the PJ, the best that could be hoped for is incompetence even in this simple task.  As an example, David Payne having to admit he made a phone call at 23.13 on that night to the MET Police Child Abuse Team, which he waffled his way out of after expressing surprise and a lapse of memory over the issue. But even silence can make a compelling story.
 
The real mystery lies in the fact that for Kate McCann there were 39 calls on her phone between 25th to 27th April, but no calls at all between 28th April and 2nd May. In addition 3 of 4 phone calls received from Gerry between 23.14 and 23.17 on 3rd May were also deleted.  A similar situation was found on Gerry McCann’s phone where 24 SMS’s had been deleted; selective deletion, then, to suggest there was no activity, despite evidence that the Antenna at Luz was activated repeatedly by their mobiles during the first few days in May.  There cannot possibly be a good reason to delete calls made during the periods mentioned above while keeping older items on record; it is not the rational way people act.
 
Eddie and Keela
 
The proposal I wish to put forward for abduction is in complete accordance with the evidence gathered as a result of the dogs indications.
 
Robert Murat
 
Before I set out my scenario for abduction there remains one more figure of interest; Robert Murat.  Murat is a British expat who spends most of his time living in Portugal in a villa just yards away from the Mark Warner holiday complex, with his mother who also owns the villa.  In Portugal at the time of the disappearance he was working in Realty.  In the early stages of the investigation he offered his services as a translator to the police.
 
If for nothing else, Murat is of interest as a result of Gerry McCann’s response to the media question ‘Did you already know Robert Murat’; the response being ‘I am not going to comment on that’. In fact McCann had already met Murat on the 4th May and subsequently, so why not just say ‘Yes’
 
Prior to May 3rd Murat was at his sister’s home in Exeter for 10 days, returning to Praia da Luz on 1st May.  Murat has also been depicted in the media as a man with a taste for child and other extreme pornography, who has associations with other equally shady business contacts such as Sergei Malinka, also blessed by the media with tastes in pornography similar to Murat, together with his German girlfriend Michaela Walczuch, another individual the press willingly chewed up and spat out.  Though it must be said the PJ were not able to pin anything on him directly in the narrower context of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  This from ‘The Truth of the Lie’
 
We ask about the reasons for his arrival in Vila da Luz on May 1st, four days after the McCanns' - the hypothesis of planned abduction is considered. Murat could have entrusted the observation to an accomplice, who would have chosen Madeleine and observed the parents' habits as well as their pattern of monitoring the children.
We want to know more about his circle of friends and the places they frequent. During the evening of the disappearance, he remembers having heard a siren shortly after 10.30pm. He was then in the kitchen with his mother. The next morning at around 9 o'clock, he asked a passer-by what had happened, and that was how he learned about Madeleine's disappearance. He then decided to go and offer his help.
All Murat's statements are immediately checked. We check the places he says he went to with Michaela, looking for CCTV cameras or witnesses able to describe the clothes he was wearing that day. We would like to compare them with the description provided by Jane Tanner.
 
We ask him about a telephone call intercepted after the announcement of the disappearance. His response is very vague. We know that towards 11.30pm, Michaela phoned Murat. Then, he called a certain Sergey Malinka, and straight afterwards, Michaela. We will never know the content of these conversations; no one will give us plausible explanations. The answers are evasive: "I no longer remember," or "that was about the web site for the estate agency." Sergey Malinka is Russian, aged 23. He works in computers and lives with his parents in Vila da Luz, 300 metres from the Ocean Club. His mother, a housewife, is employed by a cleaning company that does certain apartments for the club. He is seeing a young Portuguese woman, aged 33, mother of a teenager. The wife of one of his associates, of British origin, states that in 2006, he boasted about having had sexual relations with a minor, aged 14, and related how the father had surprised them; he allegedly stated that currently he maintains a relationship with an older woman and her daughter at the same time. Interviewed, he refuted these allegations: he claims that it's vengeance on the part of his associate, unhappy with the way their shared company worked out………..
 
………..Since Murat's first interview, which they attended, the specialists have continued to refine the profile of the suspect. They have heard about the statement from one of his so-called childhood friends, put on file by the police department: according to him, Murat had an affirmed penchant for bestiality. He recounted his attempts at sexual relations with a cat and a dog, subsequently killed, he states, with cruelty. Moreover, he allegedly attempted to rape his 16 year-old cousin. This individual describes Murat as someone violent with behavioural problems, a sexual pervert, sadist, and misanthropist. We are somewhat sceptical. All the same, according to the English profilers, there is a 90% chance that he is the guilty party.
 
 
Conclusion
 
Ok, that is more than enough information to justify the scenario that Madeleine McCann was abducted and it’s time to set out a plausible series of events that reflect the evidence and opinion provided above but also does not conflict with the known evidence put forward that supports her death. THE FOLLOWING IS MERELY A PROPSAL FOR ONE AMONG MANY THEORIES ABOUT THE DISAPPEARANCE OF MADELEINE MCCANN:-
 
I remember once reading on a McCann Forum website the following question
“And anyway she died in the apartment, and why would anyone want to abduct a dead child?”  Well maybe this is why.
 
Some time during 2006 a conversation takes place between Gerry McCann and David Payne during which McCann tells of his frustration that life is not going to plan for his wife and himself.  He recalls that they had planned their life around 2 children, but having three as a result of the twins coming along was having a serious effect on his wife who could simply no longer cope.  He tells Payne that things were so serious they had even approached family members about the possibility they might take Madeleine off their hands, but to no avail.  Not only is the emotional strain causing Kate to crack, financially they had never planned for more than 2 children anyway, and the strain on their finances means that the life they had planned for themselves now seemed forever out of reach. 
Payne suggests an alternative that would solve both the emotional and financial strain on the family.  If the McCann’s immediate family don’t wish to take her on, why not give another family who are desperate for children a chance to fulfil their, and Madeleine’s life and would be willing to pay handsomely for the privilege.  But Gerry should make up his mind quickly while Madeleine was still young enough.
 
Gerry approaches the subject with Kate and after due consideration they persuade themselves that it is the only way out.  Once Gerry tells Payne its game on, the latter says he may know someone who could help, someone who frequents the same ‘specialist’ websites as himself.
 
Payne contacts Robert Murat and tells him the problem, but it is imperative the little girl goes to a good secure family home.  Murat says he can make it happen.  Payne and McCann then get together and begin to make plans. Because Murat is resident in Portugal, a holiday is arranged by Payne at Praia Da Luz, near to where Murat lives, for a group of the regular friends during which the trade can take place.  The pair are careful to check out the consequences under Portuguese law for what they are about to do.
 
Come the 3rd of May the deal has been finalised, with Murat the middleman for the trade. (Here I would remind you of the only 4 reliable markers on the timeline, the rest of it is pure fabrication that can be diregarded). The McCanns sedate their children with a large dose of Calpol before going to the Tapas.  They are told to leave the door open so that the abduction can take place with the minimum of fuss.  At 9.00pm Murat gets a call from the abductor to say it has all gone horribly wrong.  The girl woke up as he picked her up and struggled free.  She had run to the door and onto the balcony before tripping on the steps and falling.  The abductor tells Murat she is dead, and he has taken her back into the apartment and left her behind the sofa on the floor.  After which the abductor legs it.  Murat calls around to the Tapas and gets Paynes attention while everyone is drinking and dining.  He tells him of the tragedy.  Payne tells him to wait near the apartment until he and Gerry can slip away and see the scene for themselves. 
 
While Payne and Murat are in the apartment Gerry bumps into Jeremy Wilkins for THAT conversation.  Once rid of Wilkins Gerry enters the apartment and they decide to temporarily store the body in the parent’s bedroom.  Murat says he will wait for Payne to call at the villa while they decide what they want to do.  Payne tells Gerry to make the whole scene look like there has been an abduction so Gerry plays around with the windows, pushes the sofa against the wall and all the other suspicious stuff that was noticed in the apartment before returning to the Tapas, giving Kate the bad news and asking Payne to get in touch with Murat to see, as he is a local, if there may be somewhere to hide the body, to which he agrees.
 
While Kate acts out the dramatic ‘We’ve let her down’ show, Payne has called on Murat and persuaded him that it would be in his interests, being involved himself, if he could find somewhere safe to hide the body.  Murat says he has access to a refrigeration Unit in the locale and picks up the body from the apartment and makes his way down to the Town where he is seen by the Smiths at 10.00pm before storing the body. Sometime between 10.00pm and 10.50pm when the GNR arrive, despite all the searching and tiswas, the entire Tapas gather together, at least for a while, to build the timeline they will hold onto at all costs: Their motivation for doing this?  Gerry tells the assembled inebriates that it isn’t just him, who has lost a child, in trouble; they are all in trouble to some degree for leaving their children unattended.  He gently tells them there is a law in Portugal that addresses such goings on as child abandonment that carries a maximum term of 8 years jail. Being inebriated no-one thinks to ask how he happens to know this.
 
From the Maddiefiles is a Q&A from an interview given by Amaral at the Kazlux meeting in Amsterdam.
 
Q: Do you think the body was refrigerated?
A: Yes. The bodily fluid in the car show that. If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration.
 
McCanns hire a Renault Scenic.  One quiet night Murat ‘borrows’ it, picks up the refrigerated body and disposes of it once and for all.
 
So there you have it, abduction, but only in the technical sense, and anyway it is all a load of rubbish.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Lance De Boils on 27.06.13 20:14

Crikey. That's a post and a half, isn't it?
If anyone has time to read it all, please let me know if it's worth it?
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 27.06.13 21:03

Kepharel, For a start, Murat didn't carry MM down to the beach. The person was seen by Smith. Smith states it wasn't Murat, he said he knows Murat and it wasn't him.

I know the police say that for fluids to have been in the car, any body must have been refrigerated, but I don't believe that a body would have been stored in a fridge at all. In the event that the McCann's did attempt to cover up an accident, I think that they would have acted on impulse, and the subsequent condition of a body would have been done to chance and not any kind of plan.  What about under wet sand, with the sea reducing the temperature? When no sign of a body surfaced from the sea after two / three weeks, they may have decided on a proper burial instead?

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Casey5 on 27.06.13 21:06

While Kate acts out the dramatic ‘We’ve let her down’ show, Payne has called on Murat and persuaded him that it would be in his interests, being involved himself, if he could find somewhere safe to hide the body.  Murat says he has access to a refrigeration Unit in the locale and picks up the body from the apartment and makes his way down to the Town where he is seen by the Smiths at 10.00pm before storing the body.

The Smiths are on record as stating that the man they saw carrying a child was NOT Robert Murat. They knew Murat and would have recognised him at once if it had been him.
Interesting piece though.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Kepharel on 27.06.13 21:30

Suzy...It looks like I messed up on the Murat thing with the Smiths.  I had noticed on the web various sites quoting how close in looks David Payne and Robert Murat were and whether they could have been mistaken for each other. ...I don't know... sorry to have wasted your time, but I never expected anyone to believe what I was saying anyway, it was just a PeterMac exercise in how well peeps could flannel an abduction and it certainly wouldn't have given any satisfaction to Pro McCann supporters.  I did my best :)
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by AndyB on 27.06.13 21:34

Its an interesting theory but I'm not sure it passes the credibility test. Why go all the way to Portugal to arrange it and why have witnesses there in the form of the Tapas 7? If you're going to do it, drug the girl, hand her over, then start faking the abduction, ideally in the UK where the surroundings are more familiar.

How did did Payne know Murat on such intimate terms to be able to confide in him and know, or at least strongly suspect, that he would get a helpful response?

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by sammyc on 27.06.13 21:48

In fairness to Kepharel, it is an intriguing 'credible scenario'.  The McCanns and the Tapas 7 came up with a far more absurd explanation of Madeleine's disappearance.
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Kepharel on 27.06.13 21:50

@AndyB wrote:Its an interesting theory but I'm not sure it passes the credibility test. Why go all the way to Portugal to arrange it and why have witnesses there in the form of the Tapas 7? If you're going to do it, drug the girl, hand her over, then start faking the abduction, ideally in the UK where the surroundings are more familiar.

How did did Payne know Murat on such intimate terms to be able to confide in him and know, or at least strongly suspect, that he would get a helpful response?
AndyB

I merely suggested that it would have been possible for Payne and Murat to have known each other through the 'specialist pornography websites.  I did try to link GM DP and RM together for being interested in sex sites.  I was also implying that the McCanns would be in and out of Portugal in a week and out of the jurisdiction of the Portugues police and untroubled by the British police.  If my scenario had been trouble free the abduction would have been a fact...news for a while..like Ben Needham which gently went away. It was never envisaged that the TAPAS 7 would come under the sustained fire they did once blood had been found in the apartment.  I could not explain the McCanns almost suicidal courting of publicity in this scenario other than to say when according to me the trade didn't happen then the fund stepped in in its place.  Come on...I did say it was all rubbish, but I wanted to have a go anyway.
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