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Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Ayniia on 25.06.13 20:29

@stillsloppingout wrote:In reply;   IMO .

 Firstly i feel the phrase Competition is inappropriate, a synopsis of events would be more tasteful .

Secondly , i used to purport theories and , attach credible information to the 3a's site until it became apparent that it was being used for the other side .  [ Eg i had it on good authority that some if not all of the tapas lot were swingers ]  whether that involved same sex relationships or underage sex i don't know .

But again my opinion ,[ and i had a friend over there who was working for a national at the time . ]

     MY THEORY IM MY OPINION 

    Is that Maddie died before the 3rd of may possibly a couple of days before , [ the 3rd is an unproved fact .] The group were involved in swinging and possibly a bit of drug taking as well ,  these / this drug [ possibly cocaine ] was used to sedate Maddie and the "comatose" twins, because of the administration of an illegal substance resulting in a death , they would have been screwed , so the abduction story was agreed between all of them . this  is the glue that binds ] .

I also feel that one or more of the group [ the males ], have been in a sexual relationship with a high powered politician  [ poss a Labour cabinet minister or of that ilk ] , whether this involves ,sex between  consenting adults or peadophillia i do not know, hence the unprecedented assistance .  

Murat , was either the dealer , or the person who arranged the swinging get togethers in the resort of PDL . PDL IS a swingers resort . hence Gerry denying he knew him . 

  So illegal activity , coupled with a previous illicit affair IMO is why they find themselves in this situation .

Cocaine is not a suitable drug for making people sleep and would not provoke the "comatose " state of the twins unless they were overdosing . And IMO them being doctors would be very unlikely that they gave those kinds of drugs to their children.
Murat only arrived to PDL after the couple and everyone so IMO that's not consistent with him being an arrangements person for something.
But indeed the fact that Gerry didn't actually denied knowing him is very telling.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Lance De Boils on 25.06.13 20:47

Questions about rules:
1. Are any of the T9 allowed to be the abductor?
2. Are any of the T9 allowed have been "facilitators"?
3. Can any of the T9 be fully aware of who's taken her?
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Guest on 25.06.13 21:19

Châtelaine wrote:Purée!

The ingredients for such a scenario, namely the [ever-changing and conflicting] statements of T9 are difficult to combine with a stranger abduction, as are the cadaver alerts in the apartment, on Kate’s clothes and on Cuddlecat.  For the benefit of having the slightest chance to give credibility to the abduction, I have to leave the alerts to the rented car out ;-)
• MO checks windows at 9:00pm – all’s quiet;
• GM goes check the apartment at 9:05pm, see the children fast asleep, spends a “proud father” moment and goes to the toilet [and didn’t flush so as to not wake the little ones?};
• As he exits the apartment via the patio stairs and the little gate, he sees JW walking by so he crosses the street to have a chat *);
• Straight behind him two strangers slip in through the gate [GM and JW intensely engaged in a discussion about tennis and childcare don’t notice].
• Meanwhile inside in the master bedroom the two get into a fight as to which child to abduct. One hits the other hard over the head. Too hard. Chips! He hides the body behind the sofa in the living.
• He then takes the sleeping Madeleine from her bed and carries her out onto the street via de front door, which was not double-locked and could be opened from inside, as he must have know by intuition
• He pushes his remaining luck by not having a car waiting for him outside in the car park and even though he can clearly hear GM and JW talk in the empty and thus quiet street, he turns right and crosses the road quasi in front of them.
• Again neither GM nor JW see him, but JT [whom they see neither] does. But she doesn’t think that there’s something wrong with a stranger carrying a child in Madeleine’s pyjamas and continues on het mission to go and check on her own daughter.
Meanwhile the stranger abductor has hidden the sleeping Madeleine well enough to know that she will neither be found nor wake-up. He returns to the apartment to drag out his mate’s body just before MO enters to check on Madeleine. **))
• At 10:00pm KM enters the apartment and raises the alarm: “Stranger Abduction”!!!!
*) Forget that JW says that HE crossed the road, otherwise it doesn’t work
**) No idea what he did with the body, but he must have found a very good place for it ...

Do I get the prize?

It's very convincing but in order for the cadaver scent to form the friend would need to have been dead for 2 hours or so? So obviously he carried his dead friend into the apartment to begin with. And he could have wiped the cadaver mess up with Kate's clothing.

But I don't think this scenario would pass TM's stringent requirements as there may have been a possibility that Madeleine woke up and wandered off while the abductor went back for his dead friend's body.....
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by AndyB on 25.06.13 21:24

@Lance De Boils wrote:
1. Are any of the T9 allowed to be the abductor?


<Makes self comfortable and waits for Lance to begin>

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by rainbow-fairy on 25.06.13 21:46

@suzyjohnson wrote:When GM went round to check the children at 9.05, he left the patio door open. The abductor followed him in.  After he checked in their room, GM went to the loo, during this time the abductor was able to go into the children's room. GM left 5A at 9.10 and was talking to JW outside. The abductor used gloves to open the shutter and window but then decided to go through the front door instead. By the time JT saw him at 9.15 the abductor had spent approx. 8 mins inside 5A. 

I always wondered if GM actually did leave that patio door open while he was inside 5A, and that when GM went to the loo, if MM tried to follow her father outside - because the door was open. Is is possible she could have heard voices from the Tapas bar? From there, she could have wandered the wrong way along the back alleyway looking for a way into the Tapas area. Eventually she would meet a main road where someone could have taken her from or she could've met with an accident.
Sorry suzy, woke and wandered is impossible (Kate said so herself)
Also, if you think that does that mean you don't believe Eddie and Keela's alerts???

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by rainbow-fairy on 25.06.13 22:00

PeterMac, may I thank you for your very generous competition offer. I'm sure the prizes are fantastic!
Considering English Language was my joint best subject at school, and story-writing and poetry were my forte I can hardly believe I am saying this, but -
I GIVE UP! I'M OUT......

However hard I try, I just can't make it all fit *sadly shakes head*

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Guest on 25.06.13 22:39

@Lance De Boils wrote:Questions about rules:
1. Are any of the T9 allowed to be the abductor?
2. Are any of the T9 allowed have been "facilitators"?
3. Can any of the T9 be fully aware of who's taken her?
***
I cannot speak for PeterMac, but personally I would be inclined to say "yes" to all 3 ...

I'll be back to the writing desk.
Oh and the cadaver scent bothers me most ... in any scenario
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by PeterMac on 25.06.13 23:37

Châtelaine wrote:
@Lance De Boils wrote:Questions about rules:
1. Are any of the T9 allowed to be the abductor?
2. Are any of the T9 allowed have been "facilitators"?
3. Can any of the T9 be fully aware of who's taken her?
***
I cannot speak for PeterMac, but personally I would be inclined to say "yes" to all 3 ...

I'll be back to the writing desk.
Oh and the cadaver scent bothers me most ... in any scenario   QUITE (PM)
If you can make it fit, then YES.

But the rules are clear.
Only what is in the sworn statements ( or someone else's)
No aliens, no levitation, no alternative stuff about her very existence . . .
MBM was signed out of the creche at 5:50 that day by Kate. 
Or she was already having tea with the rest, you can use either statement. 
One is the evidence of the "truthful" book -  the other is the "evidence of the creche records.  
So under the rules you are allowed to use either. Or even both !
But it has to fit with TM's version of timings.
OR you have to explain, clearly, cogently and intelligently why you want to say that TM are not telling truth.  (Sorry C-R " may have been mistaken" over the last 6 years !)

Look.  Let us all be serious about this. A little girl is missing.
A very senior lawyer from one of the best, and most feared law firms in the land has given evidence - UNDER OATH - in the High Court of England that she was abducted.
That lawyer declined / failed / refused to give the evidence on which she based that assertion - but that is a matter for her, her conscience, and for the Learned Judge.
The little girl is still missing.
Someone MUST find out what happened.

Please try very hard to work it out.   The answer must be there somewhere, amidst the statements and the evidence.  Surely no one failed to answer questions truthfully; I cannot believe that everyone did not try to help in any way they could . . .

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by loopzdaloop on 25.06.13 23:46

For this challenge I have had to consult two experts:





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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by stillsloppingout on 26.06.13 0:58

@Ayniia wrote:
@stillsloppingout wrote:In reply;   IMO .

 Firstly i feel the phrase Competition is inappropriate, a synopsis of events would be more tasteful .

Secondly , i used to purport theories and , attach credible information to the 3a's site until it became apparent that it was being used for the other side .  [ Eg i had it on good authority that some if not all of the tapas lot were swingers ]  whether that involved same sex relationships or underage sex i don't know .

But again my opinion ,[ and i had a friend over there who was working for a national at the time . ]

     MY THEORY IM MY OPINION 

    Is that Maddie died before the 3rd of may possibly a couple of days before , [ the 3rd is an unproved fact .] The group were involved in swinging and possibly a bit of drug taking as well ,  these / this drug [ possibly cocaine ] was used to sedate Maddie and the "comatose" twins, because of the administration of an illegal substance resulting in a death , they would have been screwed , so the abduction story was agreed between all of them . this  is the glue that binds ] .

I also feel that one or more of the group [ the males ], have been in a sexual relationship with a high powered politician  [ poss a Labour cabinet minister or of that ilk ] , whether this involves ,sex between  consenting adults or peadophillia i do not know, hence the unprecedented assistance .  

Murat , was either the dealer , or the person who arranged the swinging get togethers in the resort of PDL . PDL IS a swingers resort . hence Gerry denying he knew him . 

  So illegal activity , coupled with a previous illicit affair IMO is why they find themselves in this situation .

Cocaine is not a suitable drug for making people sleep and would not provoke the "comatose " state of the twins unless they were overdosing . And IMO them being doctors would be very unlikely that they gave those kinds of drugs to their children.
Murat only arrived to PDL after the couple and everyone so IMO that's not consistent with him being an arrangements person for something.
But indeed the fact that Gerry didn't actually denied knowing him is very telling.
Cocaine is a suitable but dangerous sedative, but can be lethal, if it is administered by somebody incorrectly, by say somebody  under the influence of drink or drugs  at the time of doing so .
   The point is, there being doctors, they would know it is a suitable drug. my point is they either administered by accident twice, or due to a mistake, gave a fatal dose to all, but the twins survived , hence Kate checking the twins for vital signs .
 
 Murats arrival time is irrelevant as it could have all been planned via him prior by phone or  online etc as he was of a bit of an internet buff apparently .
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by jeanmonroe on 26.06.13 1:11

"a bit of (an) internet buff" winkwinkwinkwinkwinkwink

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by stillsloppingout on 26.06.13 1:30

@jeanmonroe wrote:"a bit of (an) internet buff" winkwinkwinkwinkwinkwink
I think he or his partner were pretty adroit with computers  apparently was she was something to do with computers ? . 

The " many checks "  by the McCanns if there was no structure, could have being the situation where a drug [ illicit or not] could have been re administered .

   i am still of a mind that an accidental overdose is the reason, but by  two of the party , the sedation accidentally by consent by the McCanns . tied in with all the other perfect storm scenarios i have outlined .
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 26.06.13 4:20

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:When GM went round to check the children at 9.05, he left the patio door open. The abductor followed him in.  After he checked in their room, GM went to the loo, during this time the abductor was able to go into the children's room. GM left 5A at 9.10 and was talking to JW outside. The abductor used gloves to open the shutter and window but then decided to go through the front door instead. By the time JT saw him at 9.15 the abductor had spent approx. 8 mins inside 5A. 

I always wondered if GM actually did leave that patio door open while he was inside 5A, and that when GM went to the loo, if MM tried to follow her father outside - because the door was open. Is is possible she could have heard voices from the Tapas bar? From there, she could have wandered the wrong way along the back alleyway looking for a way into the Tapas area. Eventually she would meet a main road where someone could have taken her from or she could've met with an accident.
Sorry suzy, woke and wandered is impossible (Kate said so herself)
Also, if you think that does that mean you don't believe Eddie and Keela's alerts???

Fair enough, Rainbow Fairy, forgot about that bit.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 26.06.13 5:15

MM had an accident / accidental overdose whilst at 5A in the care of her mother sometime after 6pm whilst GM was playing tennis. Her body remained behind the sofa until GM returned just after 7pm because KM still had another 2 children to take care of. For whatever reason they decide to stage a cover up and enlist the help of one or two friends to make this possible (perhaps they lie to their friends about what happened to get the help they need?) They then had until 8.30pm to clean 5A, and for KM to take a bath, before they had to put in an appearance at the Tapas bar to give themselves alibis, although GM probably didn't stay for longer than a few minutes, KM had to be seen to be there all evening. GM is engaged in staging a cover up when he encounters JW. He is spotted, later, at 9.50pm by the Smith family, carrying MM in the direction of the beach, but he still has time to run back to the Tapas bar before 10pm.    

Open and jemmied windows and shutters, an abductor seen near the apartment, the possibility of 3 children being sedated (when the only people who had time to do so would be the parents) all elements introduced to influence opinion regarding an abduction and none of which stand up to scrutiny.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by tigger on 26.06.13 6:48

I think Loopazaloop is right. Only abduction by an Alien could explain how both time and space behaved contrary to any law of physics on the night of the 3rd of May 2007 in PdL.

For the whole story to be true, a fifth and perhaps even more dimensions are necessary. Not only that - Locard's exchange principle was temporarily suspended.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Angelique on 26.06.13 6:55

But apartment (5a) could not have been used that day, it had been deep cleaned so no one could have used it until later after the checking had started. Hence the contamination after the abduction alert. The twins moved back into the bedroom, someone pushed against Madeleine's bed to show the impression of her laying there. Also the curtains had been washed so this must mean an event occurred before Thursday.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Lance De Boils on 26.06.13 8:11

@PeterMac wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@Lance De Boils wrote:Questions about rules:
1. Are any of the T9 allowed to be the abductor?
2. Are any of the T9 allowed have been "facilitators"?
3. Can any of the T9 be fully aware of who's taken her?
***
I cannot speak for PeterMac, but personally I would be inclined to say "yes" to all 3 ...

I'll be back to the writing desk.
Oh and the cadaver scent bothers me most ... in any scenario   QUITE (PM)
If you can make it fit, then YES.
Well, that's a relief, because I'm finding it utterly impossible to come up with a scenario in which the answers to the above are no, no and no.

With one of the above having a "yes" answer, then it's possible. I think. I'll try later....
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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by lj on 26.06.13 16:30

For me one of the most suspicious things of Kate and Gerry has always been the "unwavering" trust they expressed in the rest of the Tapas. With some of them they were only superficial acquaintances. If they (the pathetic parents) indeed had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, how would they know that these people , they barely knew) were not involved? 

On a side note: I have no doubt that, when it fits their agenda, K&G will throw their "friends" under the bus.

So for me always has been, just in case the parents are absolutely not involved, that one of the other tapas must be behind it.

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Ah say Boy, ah say what about what about..

Post by The Rooster on 26.06.13 16:53

Did the forensic police not say (together with photographs) that there were blood spatters on the walls. To be on the walls it must have travelled through the air, to travel through the air it would need to be a medium-velocity spatter.  This is one that had a force of anywhere from 5 to 100 feet per second, and its diameter is usually no more than four millimeters. I feel sick writing this, if you would like more info on this please go to the following link...

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bloodstain-pattern-analysis2.htm

I'm afraid that as a scientist I just can put together any sort of scenario as per Mr Mac's challenge.  The dogs, the car, the clothes, the key, the cat, the window, the shutters, the father admitting to being the last person to see the child, CPS travelling to Portugal.  There's no evidence to support abduction as we all know.  Have a good day y'all.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Newintown on 26.06.13 17:51

@stillsloppingout wrote:
@Ayniia wrote:
@stillsloppingout wrote:In reply;   IMO .

 Firstly i feel the phrase Competition is inappropriate, a synopsis of events would be more tasteful .

Secondly , i used to purport theories and , attach credible information to the 3a's site until it became apparent that it was being used for the other side .  [ Eg i had it on good authority that some if not all of the tapas lot were swingers ]  whether that involved same sex relationships or underage sex i don't know .

But again my opinion ,[ and i had a friend over there who was working for a national at the time . ]

     MY THEORY IM MY OPINION 

    Is that Maddie died before the 3rd of may possibly a couple of days before , [ the 3rd is an unproved fact .] The group were involved in swinging and possibly a bit of drug taking as well ,  these / this drug [ possibly cocaine ] was used to sedate Maddie and the "comatose" twins, because of the administration of an illegal substance resulting in a death , they would have been screwed , so the abduction story was agreed between all of them . this  is the glue that binds ] .

I also feel that one or more of the group [ the males ], have been in a sexual relationship with a high powered politician  [ poss a Labour cabinet minister or of that ilk ] , whether this involves ,sex between  consenting adults or peadophillia i do not know, hence the unprecedented assistance .  

Murat , was either the dealer , or the person who arranged the swinging get togethers in the resort of PDL . PDL IS a swingers resort . hence Gerry denying he knew him . 

  So illegal activity , coupled with a previous illicit affair IMO is why they find themselves in this situation .

Cocaine is not a suitable drug for making people sleep and would not provoke the "comatose " state of the twins unless they were overdosing . And IMO them being doctors would be very unlikely that they gave those kinds of drugs to their children.
Murat only arrived to PDL after the couple and everyone so IMO that's not consistent with him being an arrangements person for something.
But indeed the fact that Gerry didn't actually denied knowing him is very telling.
Cocaine is a suitable but dangerous sedative, but can be lethal, if it is administered by somebody incorrectly, by say somebody  under the influence of drink or drugs  at the time of doing so .
   The point is, there being doctors, they would know it is a suitable drug. my point is they either administered by accident twice, or due to a mistake, gave a fatal dose to all, but the twins survived , hence Kate checking the twins for vital signs .
 
 Murats arrival time is irrelevant as it could have all been planned via him prior by phone or  online etc as he was of a bit of an internet buff apparently .

I can't believe all this rubbish from Kate McCann about checking the twins breathing every few minutes, why not just wake them up, ffs.  Well we all probably know the answer to that, is because she could not wake them up as they had been given sedatives.  Surely SY could work that out without having to read all the forums about it.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by PeterMac on 26.06.13 18:01

Off topic but
Cocaine is not a sedative. It is a stimulant.
[quote]Cocaine's effects appear almost immediately after a single dose, and disappear within a few minutes or hours. Taken in small amounts (up to 100 mg), cocaine usually makes the user feel euphoric, energetic, talkative, and mentally alert, especially to the sensations of sight, sound, and touch. It can also temporarily decrease the need for food and sleep. . .  
sudden death can occur on the first use of cocaine or unexpectedly thereafter. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizures followed by respiratory arrest.[/quote]

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.06.13 18:17

@PeterMac wrote:
Off topic but
Cocaine is not a sedative. It is a stimulant.
Cocaine's effects appear almost immediately after a single dose, and disappear within a few minutes or hours. Taken in small amounts (up to 100 mg), cocaine usually makes the user feel euphoric, energetic, talkative, and mentally alert, especially to the sensations of sight, sound, and touch. It can also temporarily decrease the need for food and sleep. . .  
sudden death can occur on the first use of cocaine or unexpectedly thereafter. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizures followed by respiratory arrest.[/quote]
THANK YOU PETERMAC roses
You saved me a post!
Was going to comment this am but fell asleep (joys of a babby)

Far more likely would be diazepam, nitrazepam (any benzodiazepine), phenibarbitone or any barbiturate, or even diamorphine (the medical equivalent of heroin).
All have sedative properties.
Benzodiazepines are not very dangerous even in O/D (just would have a Rip Van Winkle effect) barbiturates or opiates very dangerous.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by suzyjohnson on 27.06.13 0:18

@lj wrote:For me one of the most suspicious things of Kate and Gerry has always been the "unwavering" trust they expressed in the rest of the Tapas. With some of them they were only superficial acquaintances. If the McCanns had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance, how would they know that these people were not involved? So for me always has been, just in case the parents are absolutely not involved, that one of the other tapas must be behind it.

Actually that's a very good point lj. 

From the McCanns point of view, they were sitting in the Tapas restaurant from 8.30 - 10pm (except the 10 mins from 9.05 when GM went round to the apartment) -

1) when MO offered (twice) to check their children
2) when ROB was away from the table for 15 mins from 9.30
3) when JT was back and forward like a yoyo -

JT seen by JW outside the front of 5A
JT says she saw a man with a child at 9.15pm although GM never saw her in the same street
JT was back round to her apartment at 9.45 and stayed there until after 10pm

Why would the McCanns unquestioningly believe their version of events?
Especially when JT says in an interview 'I carried her ......'

It would be easy enough for one of the Tapas group to track the McCanns movements all week.
I think in the McCanns situation and innocent, I would be really pushing for the reconstruction the PJ asked for.

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by justathought on 27.06.13 2:21

a "team" committed to abducting Madeleine or one of the twins or even all of them. awaits their opportunity, which is after the McCann's have left for the restaurant. but they did not act quickly as they knew and/or were worried that they may be spotted by the rest of the tapas party heading to join the McCann's at  to the restaurant. they worked as a team, one entering the unlocked patio doors. the other waiting outside the bedroom window for madeleine or a twin to be passed through. the window within Madeleine's bedroom was opened (with gloves being worn) to facilitate passage of Madeleine  as were the shutters from inside. again with no fingerprints being left  the "team" were disturbed whilst trying to stage an abduction, the one inside hid somewhere , when GM checked, when he left, they resumed there kidnap.  the team member inside passing madeleine to there accomplice and then escaping via the front door or patio door when the no one was around.
dont particularly like to write the above as think the mccanns are far from innocent. but scenarios were asked for

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Re: Can you come up with a credible scenario ? Competition opens today.

Post by Grande Finale on 27.06.13 3:07

Hi, TM have been attempting to explain this conundrum with the help of some of the best and most expensive lawyers and PR personel in the world over the last six years, and have failed miserably IMO.
So I am not even going to attempt the futile task of suggesting a solution.

No! I am much more of the opinion that a police review should go back to the LAST PERSON that saw the victim alive and should then concentrate a new "investigation" on that person. This investigation should continue until some "FORENSIC" evidence comes to light (no matter how small) to point the investigation along an alternative enquiry line.

Six whole years later and no such evidence ?
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