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Madeleine McCanns' memories - Another reason that the sightings may lack credibility Mm11

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Post by sharonl on 11.06.13 7:30

If we assume for a moment that Madeleine was abducted and is alive, how likely is it that, if she is out and about in public, that she knows that she is the missing child?

Madeleine was four when she disappeared, had she been a few years younger she would have a limited recollection of her past but at the age of four she would surely have some memories, her name, twin siblings, who mam and dad are, favourite cousin, favourite toy etc.

Photographs of Madeleine and her family have been plastered all over the world for everyone, including Madeleine to see.

So the question is, would the now 10 year who the McCanns claimed to be a bright child, recognise herself? Would she have memories of her past and realise who she really is?

Add to this, the coloboma and the fact that the whole world knows that she is missing, what are the chances that the person holding her would take her out anywhere in public when all she would need to do is say something or leave a short note, which a 10 year old would be capable of doing.

As she gets older, there is even more chance of her speaking out, are the abductors suddenly going to remove her from people that she has got to know over the years? Her disappearance would need to be explained again.

So how much would a 4 year old remember?
How safe is it for the abductor to take her out in public now?
Does this further reduce the credibility of the alleged sightings?

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Post by suzyjohnson on 11.06.13 8:00

Yes, sharonl, I agree with all you have said above. I would expect Madeleine to have had good communication skills at age 3, nearly 4, and I think, in the event that she is alive, that she would be able to remember a lot. For example, her parents (constantly on the news to remind her as well) the rest of her family, her friends, basic details of where she lived, that she was preparing to start school that september, the holiday, the trauma of her life changing so drastically

Tragically, if she were still alive, the chances of her living a near normal life, having any independence, having friends or meeting new people for example, would be very remote.

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Post by plebgate on 11.06.13 8:13

If nothing else, I think Maddie would remember plans for a birthday party for her and singing along with her mother to the Pussy Cat dolls.

I still remember watching children's tv with my mum at a very early age.
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Post by Jill Havern on 11.06.13 8:20

If something horrible was happening to Maddie, if the Gaspar statements are anything to go by, then she might well have said something about it to a teacher when she started school.

My daughter works in CID/Child Protection and she's dealing with a four year old at the moment who's told a teacher the same thing.

Gerry McCann on the airport bus: "I'm not here to enjoy myself".

Eddie and Keela: That's that problem sorted out.

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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.06.13 9:36

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:If something horrible was happening to Maddie, if the Gaspar statements are anything to go by, then she might well have said something about it to a teacher when she started school.

My daughter works in CID/Child Protection and she's dealing with a four year old at the moment who's told a teacher the same thing.

Gerry McCann on the airport bus: "I'm not here to enjoy myself".

Eddie and Keela: That's that problem sorted out.

Agree 100% yes

As an aside, was not yet 4 1/2 when I started school in '79..... I knew my address, phone no, both sets of grandparents AND my g-grandparents addresses and phone numbers, all the aforementioned family members full names and birthdays. Recite my Dad's car numberplate etc etc.
Ok so I was bright but no child prodigy!!!
A child similar being possibly abused would be liable to bring the house crashing down, imo. Poor little mite.

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Post by Guest on 11.06.13 9:50

Speaking generally, if there is abuse within a family, is it likely to affect only one child?

I would have thought not and thus the removal of one child would not remove the risk to the perpetrators of their actions becoming known.

Wow Rainbow-Fairy you were a mine of information when you were 4 - I certainly wasn't!
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.06.13 10:10

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Speaking generally, if there is abuse within a family, is it likely to affect only one child?

I would have thought not and thus the removal of one child would not remove the risk to the perpetrators of their actions becoming known.

Wow Rainbow-Fairy you were a mine of information when you were 4 - I certainly wasn't!
Why thank you NFWTD, LOL I started out a genius and its all been downhill from there winkwink

I have done extensive research on child abuse (sexual, physical, emotional etc) and it is amazing just how often abuse is confined to one child only. In many cases, the siblings are also encouraged to 'abuse' by physical and verbal means. The abused child is left feeling ostracised and confused.
It can happen for many reasons. Maternal PND, uncertainty over parentage, or just some unknown factor.
Have you ever heard of the book 'The Boy Called It' or 'The Child Named It' (sorry, not awake yet) - even so I've read it a few times. One son out of three was made to sleep on the floor, in a coal bunker etc, given dog food and scraps - his two brothers were treated normally.

I believe this often happens for calculated reasons. IF the abused child speaks out, and the siblings are asked 'are you given dog food to eat/fiddled with?' etc they are utterly incredulous so the abused child seems less believable.

That is the conclusion I've drawn from my research, anyway yes

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Post by Guest on 11.06.13 13:29

Even without living grandparents (let alone great-grandparents) and nobody then having a phone, I doubt that I could have come up with family names and addresses. Maybe it wasn't usual then for children to know their relatives by their proper names, just mum, dad etc. I am talking about near prehistoric times!

This is a link to the case you mention. http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Pelzer

There are some doubts about the authenticity of his account.

I can now think of cases where one child in a family was singled out for abuse.
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Post by Nereid on 11.06.13 14:07

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
I can now think of cases where one child in a family was singled out for abuse.

In Narcissistic families often one child is singled out to be the scapegoat.
This is an interesting article on the phenomenon:

http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-scapegoat.html
Golden Child / Scapegoat

It's very common for Narcissistic Mothers to have a Golden Child / Scapegoat dynamic going on.
In short, one child in the family is the Golden Child, and one or more is the Scapegoat.
The Golden Child, as the name suggests, is the best and most wonderful - at least in the eyes of the Narcissistic Mother. It seems to be that the Narcissistic Mother picks the Golden Child to be an extension of herself, onto whom she projects all her own supposed wonderfulness.
The Golden Child can do no wrong. He or she gets given the best of everything - even apartments or houses bought for them. Their most minor achievements are celebrated and held up for admiration.
The Scapegoat on the other hand is, also as the name suggests, the person on whom all the ills of the family are projected. They can do no right. Their major achievements are dismissed. Any money spent on them is the bare minimum and is spent begrudgingly.
Growing up the Scapegoat can understandably feel very jealous of the Golden Child.
This, of course, leads to friction between the children, which suits the Narcissistic Mother. Divide and conquer and all that, and lots of opportunities for Triangulation. Indeed, the Golden Child can be encouraged, either overtly or tacitly, by the Narcissistic Mother, to bully the Scapegoat which adds to the friction.
I'd go so far as to venture that, if you're reading this, you were more likely to have been the Scapegoat than the Golden Child.
This is because, contrary to the way it felt growing up, the Scapegoat is actually the lucky one! (I mrean relatively lucky, of course. No child of a narcissistic mother can be ever described as being lucky.)

The Golden Child can end up very engulfed by the Narcissistic Mother, and her life can end up being emmeshed in hers too. She may well grow without proper boundaries and proper self-identity. She is likely to remain, either forever or for a long time, as a puppet of the Narcissistic Mother.
The Scapegoat on the other hand, is the independent one. She's the one who's driven to seek answers and who may well realise about NPD. She's the one who can break free from the unhealthy dynamics of the family and create a healthy life.
She really is the lucky one at the end.
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.06.13 15:28

@Nereid wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
I can now think of cases where one child in a family was singled out for abuse.

In Narcissistic families often one child is singled out to be the scapegoat.
This is an interesting article on the phenomenon:

http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/golden-child-scapegoat.html
Golden Child / Scapegoat

It's very common for Narcissistic Mothers to have a Golden Child / Scapegoat dynamic going on.
In short, one child in the family is the Golden Child, and one or more is the Scapegoat.
The Golden Child, as the name suggests, is the best and most wonderful - at least in the eyes of the Narcissistic Mother. It seems to be that the Narcissistic Mother picks the Golden Child to be an extension of herself, onto whom she projects all her own supposed wonderfulness.
The Golden Child can do no wrong. He or she gets given the best of everything - even apartments or houses bought for them. Their most minor achievements are celebrated and held up for admiration.
The Scapegoat on the other hand is, also as the name suggests, the person on whom all the ills of the family are projected. They can do no right. Their major achievements are dismissed. Any money spent on them is the bare minimum and is spent begrudgingly.
Growing up the Scapegoat can understandably feel very jealous of the Golden Child.
This, of course, leads to friction between the children, which suits the Narcissistic Mother. Divide and conquer and all that, and lots of opportunities for Triangulation. Indeed, the Golden Child can be encouraged, either overtly or tacitly, by the Narcissistic Mother, to bully the Scapegoat which adds to the friction.
I'd go so far as to venture that, if you're reading this, you were more likely to have been the Scapegoat than the Golden Child.
This is because, contrary to the way it felt growing up, the Scapegoat is actually the lucky one! (I mrean relatively lucky, of course. No child of a narcissistic mother can be ever described as being lucky.)

The Golden Child can end up very engulfed by the Narcissistic Mother, and her life can end up being emmeshed in hers too. She may well grow without proper boundaries and proper self-identity. She is likely to remain, either forever or for a long time, as a puppet of the Narcissistic Mother.
The Scapegoat on the other hand, is the independent one. She's the one who's driven to seek answers and who may well realise about NPD. She's the one who can break free from the unhealthy dynamics of the family and create a healthy life.
She really is the lucky one at the end.
Oh. My. God! Thank you Nereid, I think I need to read this!
I AM the scapegoat! My sister is the golden one; she is married with two kids to a man who the family used to hate because they fought so (once they married and mimicked the parental unit all was forgotten). I however am a single Mum of 3, and despite the fact I probably have less vices I get all the **** and my younger brother - talk about blue eyed boy!!!
Yes I'm off to read this v, v carefully as I was the 'singled out' one.
Thank you again roses

Oh and NFWTD - roses for you too. Dave Pelzer! Of course. My baby brain is worse than I thought yes

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"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra FelgueirasMadeleine McCanns' memories - Another reason that the sightings may lack credibility 670379



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by Guest on 11.06.13 20:16

Good gracious! All of this only makes me more grateful than ever for having had two loving & caring & understanding & supportive & stimulating parents [and 2 lazy brothers, but: who cares ...?].

My thoughts are with you and good to understand that you've survived such ordeal Madeleine McCanns' memories - Another reason that the sightings may lack credibility 725573
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Post by Nereid on 11.06.13 21:45

@rainbow-fairy wrote:

Oh. My. God! Thank you Nereid, I think I need to read this!
I AM the scapegoat!
You're welcome. I think you will start to understand a lot about what happened in your past. Well, understand is not the right word, you can never understand, but a lot of things will make more sense.
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Post by Guest on 12.06.13 9:27

I think the reason that there are so many of us with Narcissistic mothers are on this website is that we recognise Kate for what she is.


We see the flirting ...the inappropriate behaviour ...the basking in sympathy.


We see the hatred when the mask slips.


We know.


Just my opinion of course.
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