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Abduction theories (McCann's version)

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Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by suzyjohnson on 11.06.13 1:13

I just found this, these questions and answers are from Woman magazine and I have copied from the thread on this site from May 2011.

The relevance of this is that these are all points that Kate would like us to believe about May 2nd / 3rd. I think It would be interesting to collect other snippets from the McCanns to build a full picture.

1) Did the tapas bar booking tip off the abductor? Although not usual, the receptionist at the holiday resort let Kate and friends book the tapas restaurant near their apartments for the week ahead. Kate noticed in police reports that the receptionist had left a note at the pool reception explaining she'd let them do so because they were leaving their kids sleeping alone in nearby apartments. When she saw the note, Kate was horrified as It was accessible to staff, guests and visitors to the complex, and obviously a risk'.

2) Was Madeleine drugged? 'The day she went missing, Madeleine was pale and tired and asked me to carry her from the pool back to the apartment,' says Kate. 'It was odd as usually she has loads of energy.' Was her daughter tired from holiday activities or had she been given something during that day - or the previous night - to make her sleepy? einforcing Kate's fears is the fact that despite the chaos, lights and screaming that went on after their sister's disappearance was discovered, the twins slept soundly on. Were they drugged too?

And further to point 2 - 'I didn't think of it at the time but the day Madeleine disappeared I noticed what I thought was a tea stain on her Disney pyjama top,' she says. 'I washed it without thinking but looking back, the children hadnt drunk any tea that day and I can't remember her mentioning that she'd spilt anything.'

And, of course, Madeleine was trying to tell them about all of the above ...........

3) Was someone in the room the night before? The day before she went missing Madeleine asked why her parents hadn't come to
them when she and Sean had cried in the middle of the night. 'I'm haunted by those words,' says Kate. 'I'm convinced someone was in their room to wake them and blame myself for not sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her.'

Of course, there's more ........ open windows, jemmied shutters, and the JT sighting .......





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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by tigger on 11.06.13 6:54

No reference for this but:

- taken by a childless couple - this theme crops up now and then. The Posh lookalike for one.
That theory leaves out the tea stain but not sedation.


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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by PeterMac on 11.06.13 7:19

In what language was the note in the book ?
That might give us a clue as to the nationality of the "abductor"
Was the handwriting legible ?
Is there a copy of it ?

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Guest on 11.06.13 7:26

Could the supposed tea stain have been in fact a spillage from a liquid sedative?

May not be relevent, but I read somewhere that DNA can be destroyed by sunlight?
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.06.13 7:49

@suzyjohnson wrote:'I'm haunted by those words,' says Kate. 'I'm convinced someone was in their room to wake them and blame myself for not sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her.'



And this grabbing and shaking action is what Kate was demonstrating in a television interview where she was describing "sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her" about the crying incident.

Grabbing Madeleine, teeth clenched and shaking her.

She looked more like an angry mother than a concerned one.

Just saying, Kevin.
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by plebgate on 11.06.13 7:53

What happened to a big hug, gentle voice and patience?

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.06.13 7:55



Kate also demonstrated the same shaking action to Oprah Winfry.
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by tigger on 11.06.13 8:01

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:'I'm haunted by those words,' says Kate. 'I'm convinced someone was in their room to wake them and blame myself for not sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her.'



And this grabbing and shaking action is what Kate was demonstrating in a television interview where she was describing "sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her" about the crying incident.

Grabbing Madeleine, teeth clenched and shaking her.

She looked more like an angry mother than a concerned one.

Just saying, Kevin.

That's because what she was really upset about was the 'waking up'. 'What do you mean you woke up?' Shake, shake.

Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

The most obvious question that would follow Maddie's alleged statement would be 'Why were you crying?' (Sweetheart, darling can be added but is optional).

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by PeterMac on 11.06.13 8:04



I told you not to say that on television !

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by plebgate on 11.06.13 8:08

@tigger wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@suzyjohnson wrote:'I'm haunted by those words,' says Kate. 'I'm convinced someone was in their room to wake them and blame myself for not sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her.'



And this grabbing and shaking action is what Kate was demonstrating in a television interview where she was describing "sitting down with Madeleine and drawing more information out of her" about the crying incident.

Grabbing Madeleine, teeth clenched and shaking her.

She looked more like an angry mother than a concerned one.

Just saying, Kevin.

That's because what she was really upset about was the 'waking up'. 'What do you mean you woke up?' Shake, shake.

Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

The most obvious question that would follow Maddie's alleged statement would be 'Why were you crying?' (Sweetheart, darling can be added but is optional).


Hasn't Mrs. previously said that she wondered when it was that Maddie and Sean were crying, was it when they were in the bath blah blah?

Well imo the sentence above highlighted in red would suggest that Mrs. thinks the crying occured when they were out, how could somebody be in the room to wake them if the parents were in the apartment?

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.06.13 8:08

@tigger wrote:That's because what she was really upset about was the 'waking up'. 'What do you mean you woke up?' Shake, shake.

My 4 year old granddaughter wakes up during the night. I wonder why it was not ok for Madeleine to do the same?
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by sharonl on 11.06.13 8:31

I would have to check these details, but I read in the statement of one Ocean Club staff members that part of the complex was closed to the general public, that may have included the tapas area. If this is correct, then the note in point one was only accessible to staff and guests. Also as Petermac pointed out, the note could have been written in either language, this again reduces the number of people who could have read and understood that note. How long was the note on display? How many guests would walk up to the booking area and start nosing through the notes anyway? And what are the chances that the one person who just happened to notice the note has an abduction in mind?

The same member of staff also stated that she had finished her shift and walked past apt 5a between 9.30pm and 10.00pm on May 3rd and all was quiet, no-one around

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WHERE WERE YOU? - the crying incident-

Post by worriedmum on 11.06.13 8:58

going back to the 'was it when they were in the bath? ' comment, I have always been absolutely mystified as to why the parents wouldn't know if at least one two year old, (Sean and Amelie) and a three year old (Madeleine)had cried when they were in the bath. WHO ON EARTH WAS BATHING THEM THEN? WHAT ARE THEY SAYING?
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 11.06.13 9:31

@worriedmum wrote:going back to the 'was it when they were in the bath? ' comment, I have always been absolutely mystified as to why the parents wouldn't know if at least one two year old, (Sean and Amelie) and a three year old (Madeleine)had cried when they were in the bath. WHO ON EARTH WAS BATHING THEM THEN? WHAT ARE THEY SAYING?

Gonçalo Amaral: "It would be interesting to know the reason why Mr David Payne is not taking part in the reconstitution. He might explain for how long he bathed the children and at what time."
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Guest on 11.06.13 10:32

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@tigger wrote:That's because what she was really upset about was the 'waking up'. 'What do you mean you woke up?' Shake, shake.

My 4 year old granddaughter wakes up during the night. I wonder why it was not ok for Madeleine to do the same?





Madeleine McCann left crying in bedroom the night before she went missing

10 Apr 2008 18:30


Madeleine McCann asked her mother just hours before her disappearance: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?", it was revealed today.




Madeleine McCann (PA)

Madeleine McCann asked her mother just hours before her disappearance: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?", it was revealed today.

The three-year-old's stark question emerged amid leaked passages from police interviews given by Kate and Gerry McCann directly after their daughter's disappearance in Praia da Luz, Portugal last May.

The couple, who were in Brussels today to launch a bid for a Europe-wide missing child alert system, were angered by the timing of the leak and were convinced it was a "blatant" attempt to smear them.

They called for the Portuguese Justice Ministry to launch an internal investigation into the revelations which would be a serious breach of the country's strict judicial secrecy laws.

One furious friend said: "The minute that you talk about Madeleine crying is the minute that the vultures will pile in, that's why this has been leaked."

Madeleine, who disappeared just days before her fourth birthday, went missing from the McCanns' holiday apartment on the night of May 3 while the couple were eating tapas with friends nearby.

In her first interview with Portuguese detectives, Mrs McCann spoke about a conversation she had with Madeleine just that morning.

"While we were having breakfast, Madeleine said: 'Mum, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?'," she told police.

She added: "Gerry and I talked about it for several minutes and decided to watch over the children more carefully at night."

Friends of the McCanns said tonight that the couple had been "puzzled" by Madeleine's remark at the time as she had not apparently been crying when they called in for regular 20-minute checks from the restaurant across the pool where they dined each night during their holiday.

They said that one of the McCanns' friends Rachael Oldfield, had been in the adjoining flat - on the other side of Madeleine's wall - all evening and had not heard any crying.

The couple also insist Madeleine was not speaking angrily and they did not take it as a reproach. Her reference to "we" is understood to have referred to Madeleine and her younger brother Sean.

Friends said they now believe the comment could even be a clue that an intruder was in the flat on the night of May 2 and briefly disturbed Madeleine and Sean before fleeing.

The Policia Judiciaria interviews were leaked through journalist Nacho Abad, of Spanish television programme Ana Rosa Quintana.

The McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "Kate and Gerry have been utterly honest and utterly open with the police and all of their statements from the moment that Madeleine was taken.

"The very fact that the comment from Madeleine is now in the public domain is entirely because they themselves told the police about it at the time.

"It is more than curious that this comment, taken in isolation and out of context, that has been in the police file for some 11 months, should now emerge on the very day that they are in Brussels trying to improve children's welfare and child safety.

"They would be more than interested to know if the Portuguese justice ministry will now demand an internal review of the police investigation to get to the bottom of how this material emerged in the way it has, on the day it has.

"Kate and Gerry have been subjected to leaks and smears from day one and I'm afraid this has all the hallmarks of yet another poor attempt to influence the headlines on the very day that they are seeking to achieve some good in Europe"


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-left-crying-in-bedroom-302219#comments

If the crying incident hadn't been leaked would they have reported it to PJ?





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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Praiaaa on 11.06.13 10:40

"Get 'em Gonçalo
Gonçalo Amaral: "It would be interesting to know the reason why Mr David Payne is not taking part in the reconstitution. He might explain for how long he bathed the children and at what time."



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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by tigger on 11.06.13 12:56

@ Cherry Blossom
I posted this somewhere else not long ago. You will see that the mcCanns were very keen indeed to tell the PJ about the crying but not so keen to let the public know. Stands to reason, the public would take the 'leaving alone and back garden' but not crying, which was to enforce the intruder myth for the police.
When eventually the 75minutes of crying was leaked to the press, it had the expected sympathy backlash. The duration of the crying was never mentioned in their own statements.
I don't believe Maddie cried, I believe it was the twins and the statements/lies evolve nicely in that respect.


1) Allegedly: told Fiona and JT that Sean and Madeleine had cried. Statements made in rogs. april 08 This is not likely to have happened, only 'proof' is a statement made a year later by Fiona.

2)Statement 4/5 M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.

Statement 4/5 Gerry M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.

Request 5/5 to LPO Markley to make the PJ aware of the crying.

3)Statement 10/5 Gerry - M and Sean. (is there a statement from K same day kept back?)

4)Statement 6/9 Kate - Madeleine alone.

ad 1) Dr. Roberts: A crying shame. 2010
And those episodes of retelling in hindsight? They took place at the dinner table on Thursday night, i.e. before Madeleine's absence had been noted. That is not hindsight at all, but foresight, the all-important observation being made to friends first, the police afterwards (by both parents on 4 May, Gerry again on 10 May, Kate once more on 6 September and Gerry on the 7th).

ad 2)(Dr. Roberts) -witness statement by Leicestershire Police Officer Stephen Markley, made on 25 April, 2008, in relation to his activities as family communication officer while working in Portugal with the McCanns. The key aspect (for present purposes) of his statement is as follows:

"However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

"One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening."

It's only when this desire is set against the fact that they had already (4 May) twice told the PJ themselves about the incident, that their request to Officer Markley on the 5th appears overly insistent.
ad 3) A week later, when advisors are on the scene as well as PR advice, Gerry changes it to Madeleine and Sean.

4) It was reported by the McCanns themselves in their 'one year on' documentary of 30 April, 2008, and in their interview with Dermot Murhaghan for Sky News a day later.

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Guest on 11.06.13 13:26

@tigger wrote:@ Cherry Blossom
I posted this somewhere else not long ago. You will see that the mcCanns were very keen indeed to tell the PJ about the crying but not so keen to let the public know. Stands to reason, the public would take the 'leaving alone and back garden' but not crying, which was to enforce the intruder myth for the police.
When eventually the 75minutes of crying was leaked to the press, it had the expected sympathy backlash. The duration of the crying was never mentioned in their own statements.
I don't believe Maddie cried, I believe it was the twins and the statements/lies evolve nicely in that respect.


1) Allegedly: told Fiona and JT that Sean and Madeleine had cried. Statements made in rogs. april 08 This is not likely to have happened, only 'proof' is a statement made a year later by Fiona.

2)Statement 4/5 M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.

Statement 4/5 Gerry M asked why K hadn’t come when twins were crying.

Request 5/5 to LPO Markley to make the PJ aware of the crying.

3)Statement 10/5 Gerry - M and Sean. (is there a statement from K same day kept back?)

4)Statement 6/9 Kate - Madeleine alone.

ad 1) Dr. Roberts: A crying shame. 2010
And those episodes of retelling in hindsight? They took place at the dinner table on Thursday night, i.e. before Madeleine's absence had been noted. That is not hindsight at all, but foresight, the all-important observation being made to friends first, the police afterwards (by both parents on 4 May, Gerry again on 10 May, Kate once more on 6 September and Gerry on the 7th).

ad 2)(Dr. Roberts) -witness statement by Leicestershire Police Officer Stephen Markley, made on 25 April, 2008, in relation to his activities as family communication officer while working in Portugal with the McCanns. The key aspect (for present purposes) of his statement is as follows:

"However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

"One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening."

It's only when this desire is set against the fact that they had already (4 May) twice told the PJ themselves about the incident, that their request to Officer Markley on the 5th appears overly insistent.
ad 3) A week later, when advisors are on the scene as well as PR advice, Gerry changes it to Madeleine and Sean.

4) It was reported by the McCanns themselves in their 'one year on' documentary of 30 April, 2008, and in their interview with Dermot Murhaghan for Sky News a day later.

I must have missed your post tigger. For posting all the above information., very helpful.
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Monty Heck on 11.06.13 21:04

tigger Today at 8:01 am


Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

He's just using a West of Scotland expression, meaning she came from the room she was in to another room. Probably indicating she came out of her own bedroom and into theirs, or the sitting room, wherever. Although GM likes to present himself as an educated person, he often forgets himself and uses phrases which are not standard English. Another example is the much debated ".... ... I'm not here to enjoy myself" quite a well known Scottish joke, but somewhat out of place in direct hearing of children. Definitely more suited to a stag party and quite unsuitable in those circumstances.

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Praiaaa on 11.06.13 21:08

@Monty Heck wrote: tigger Today at 8:01 am


I'm not here to enjoy myself" quite a well known Scottish joke, but somewhat out of place in direct hearing of children. Definitely more suited to a stag party and quite unsuitable in those circumstances.

That's interesting, because I'm pretty sure that most of us (and those of us who were on the Mirror and then the 3A fora) are not aware of this and have taken it at face value.

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by tigger on 11.06.13 21:09

@Monty Heck wrote: tigger Today at 8:01 am


Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

He's just using a West of Scotland expression, meaning she came from the room she was in to another room. Probably indicating she came out of her own bedroom and into theirs, or the sitting room, wherever. Although GM likes to present himself as an educated person, he often forgets himself and uses phrases which are not standard English. Another example is the much debated ".... ... I'm not here to enjoy myself" quite a well known Scottish joke, but somewhat out of place in direct hearing of children. Definitely more suited to a stag party and quite unsuitable in those circumstances.

I disagree, Gerry says it following on from Kate's performance on her 'waking up' etc. On it's own it could be interpreted both ways. As an addendum to Kate's 'why did you wake up' it isn't imo. I think he slipped up once again.


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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by aquila on 11.06.13 21:12

@Monty Heck wrote: tigger Today at 8:01 am


Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

He's just using a West of Scotland expression, meaning she came from the room she was in to another room. Probably indicating she came out of her own bedroom and into theirs, or the sitting room, wherever. Although GM likes to present himself as an educated person, he often forgets himself and uses phrases which are not standard English. Another example is the much debated ".... ... I'm not here to enjoy myself" quite a well known Scottish joke, but somewhat out of place in direct hearing of children. Definitely more suited to a stag party and quite unsuitable in those circumstances.

My Mother was from Glasgow, 'she came through' it's just a colloquial thing.
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by tigger on 11.06.13 21:15

@aquila wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote: tigger Today at 8:01 am


Because she shouldn't have? Because as Gerry said in the April 08 interview 'There was one night she came through.'
Through what Gerry? So she shouldn't have 'come through' what? It's most often used when people move from one state of being to another one.
A tough time -
A long illness -
A terrible night -
A drug overdose -
A dangerous operation - but came through.

He's just using a West of Scotland expression, meaning she came from the room she was in to another room. Probably indicating she came out of her own bedroom and into theirs, or the sitting room, wherever. Although GM likes to present himself as an educated person, he often forgets himself and uses phrases which are not standard English. Another example is the much debated ".... ... I'm not here to enjoy myself" quite a well known Scottish joke, but somewhat out of place in direct hearing of children. Definitely more suited to a stag party and quite unsuitable in those circumstances.

My Mother was from Glasgow, 'she came through' it's just a colloquial thing.

Meant to add this and I suppose the video link is around somewhere:

It was reported by the McCanns themselves in their 'one year on' documentary of 30 April, 2008, and in their interview with Dermot Murhaghan for Sky News a day later.

Kate says : Madeleine asked about crying alone.

Same interview Gerry says: ..there was one night that Madeleine had come through and one of the twins was crying ......

He went back to his original statement of the 4th in his excitement, but I feel in the context of the above it's clear he's not talking about a child going from a to b. Imo it's also a term that would be used in medicine a lot.
- and here's the video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuE3tMLWZJI

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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by Rufus T on 18.06.13 17:29

I have been reading this forum for a few months now but this is my first post. I have watched the video several times and IMO " she came through" is just a reference to her going into the room where her parents were; I can understand why it could be taken to mean something else, but as a Glaswegian myself I believe that is what he is saying. Just felt I had to post as although there do seem to be plenty of remarks made by those involved which bare further examination I do not think that this is one of them.
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Re: Abduction theories (McCann's version)

Post by aquila on 18.06.13 17:35

@Rufus T wrote:I have been reading this forum for a few months now but this is my first post. I have watched the video several times and IMO " she came through" is just a reference to her going into the room where her parents were; I can understand why it could be taken to mean something else, but as a Glaswegian myself I believe that is what he is saying. Just felt I had to post as although there do seem to be plenty of remarks made by those involved which bare further examination I do not think that this is one of them.

I made the same comment Rufus not so many posts behind yours. My Mother was Glaswegian. It's a colloquialism imo.
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aquila

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