The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

Please note that when you register your username must be different from your email address!

Do they know the game's up ?

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tiny on 07.05.13 14:40

@russiandoll wrote:There is no firm evdence that anyone in that group hid Maddie's body under any circumstances. The dogs' alerts were not corroborated.
I guess there could be the scenario where they are more wicked than people want to believe and that the little one was deliberately sent on her way. That is horrific to contemplate and I am glad that I have not seen any evidence for that, although at one stage I did speculate that the reason Maddie's death was hidden was because she had been treated for a grave illness with not yet approved or banned drugs out of desperation by her parents and they were terrified that this would be discovered.

There is so much speculation because of the lies, deceit and misinformation attached to this sad case. It is a tragedy.

Tigger, I can never make sense of the way they behaved in the immediate aftermath, unless it was relief that the story had been accepted, but they still would have been coping with the sudden and unexpected death of their child. Even if Maddie had been gravely ill, her death would not have been a relief to her parents.

The only sense I can make of it, and that is not much sense, is that someone in their party was aware of some scandalous goings on by some VIP in the area, and that person was protected because of a threat to expose if McCanns were not given reassurances. If that were the case I think it would have been buried at the time
But it still does not explain their faces as they left church a week after Maddie disappeared, or the beaming faces on the day out with the twins.

What did the Express call it.... a riddle? Not wrong there.

Then this counts for nothing...... DNA sample in McCanns’ car ‘has 100% match to Madeleine’
avatar
tiny

Posts : 2274
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-02-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by ShuBob on 07.05.13 14:43

Dogs' alerts are not always corroborating yet we know suspects have been convicted off the back of such alerts supported by circumstantial evidence. Two recent examples are the cases of Kate Prout and Suzanne Pilley.

ShuBob

Posts : 1896
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2012-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tiny on 07.05.13 14:47

@ShuBob wrote:Dogs' alerts are not always corroborating yet we know suspects have been convicted off the back of such alerts supported by circumstantial evidence. Two recent examples are the cases of Kate Prout and Suzanne Pilley.

thanks ShuBob, so do give these dogs and their findings a wide birth
avatar
tiny

Posts : 2274
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-02-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by ShuBob on 07.05.13 14:53

@tiny wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Dogs' alerts are not always corroborating yet we know suspects have been convicted off the back of such alerts supported by circumstantial evidence. Two recent examples are the cases of Kate Prout and Suzanne Pilley.

thanks ShuBob, so do give these dogs and their findings a wide birth

Yes, if one wants to bury their head in the sand.

ShuBob

Posts : 1896
Reputation : 67
Join date : 2012-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tiny on 07.05.13 14:57

@ShuBob wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Dogs' alerts are not always corroborating yet we know suspects have been convicted off the back of such alerts supported by circumstantial evidence. Two recent examples are the cases of Kate Prout and Suzanne Pilley.

thanks ShuBob, so do give these dogs and their findings a wide birth

Yes, if one wants to bury their head in the sand.
thanks
avatar
tiny

Posts : 2274
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-02-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.05.13 15:53

A very wide berth !

1 The case with a legal significance may not yet have been fully appreciated, is that of Jeanette Zapata. in Dane Country, USA. In 1976 she served her husband Eugene Zapata with divorce papers. She went missing shortly afterwards. 29 years later dogs alerted in the basement of the family home, and in several other places where the family had lived over the intervening time. At trial his lawyer persuaded the judge that the dog’s finding could not be admitted, since the places in which they had alerted indicated that he had carried the body round to everywhere he had lived, and it was suggested that this was preposterous. The jury failed to reach a verdict. Before his retrial however, he confessed, and crucially confirmed that he had in fact transported the body round before disposing of it. The dogs had been absolutely accurate. No body has been found.

2 The recent case of Bianca Jones, a 2 year old girl murdered by her father D’Andre Lane in Detroit USA, with the added details of an alleged abduction, was an occasion when Mr Martin Grime, a British retired police officer, was working for the FBI. His evidence of the alerts by his dog was admitted to show that Bianca was dead whilst in the back of the car, and not taken by armed men as was being alleged. Lane was convicted, though no body has ever been found.

3 The trial of Adrian Prout, in 2010, for the murder of Kate Prout, his wife, in the UK, was notable again for a verdict of guilty, despite no body having been found. Dogs had indicted the presence of a body in the house, but nothing had been found. Some time after his conviction Prout confessed, and indicted the location of the body, confirming that the dogs had been absolutely accurate in their findings.

4 In the murder of Susan Pilley in Edinburgh, by her colleague David Gilroy, in 2010, the court heard that the dogs had alerted in the office basement garage and in two areas of the boot of Gilroy’s car, even though this had been cleaned recently with fluid or air freshener. The defence failed to convince the jury that the absence of physical evidence entitled his client to acquittal. No body has been found. He was convicted.

5 Cori Baker from Oklahoma was murdered by her sister’s boyfriend Marquis Bulloch, in 2007. He changed his story several times whilst being investigated, and the dogs, partly funded by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, were brought into search a large area after a skull had been found. They alerted in several places. No other physical evidence was discovered. He was convicted

6 The case of Guadeloupe Montano from Kane County, USA, is still pending. It is alleged that she was murdered by her husband Aurelio Montano in 1990. It may be the first time that the dog’s alerts have been used as evidence in that State. They indicate that the body lay in one position and was then moved to another. The trial is due in December 2012. No body has been found.

7 The case of Amir Jennings, allegedly killed by her mother Zinah Jennings in 2011, involves a mother who reported her son missing. Dogs have searched the house and the car, and the trial for lying to the police about what happened is pending. No body has been found.

8 The trial of Albert Fine, the partner of Catherine Hoholski, from Lorain USA, is also pending. In this case the body was found within 60 seconds of the dog being deployed, and it was then used to identify other locations relevant to the prosecution case.

9 The alleged abduction of Isabel Mercedes Celis has been called into question by the findings of two dogs, one a cadaver dog, in the family home. The findings were said to be “significant”, the house is being treated as a crime scene and the matter is still under investigation. No body has been found.

10 The disappearance of 6 year old Etan Patz in New York 33 years ago, has already shown the almost unbelievable feats of which cadaver dogs are capable. In this case pads of absorbent material were left for a time on the concrete floor of the basement and then presented to the dogs for testing. As a result the concrete floor was then ripped up. The handler Englebert said. "We as human beings never lose our scent. If [a body] had been there for a while, that scent would still be there," she said, indicating that even if investigators do not find remains in the basement, it is possible human remains may have once been there before being moved.” The investigation has also used ground penetrating radar. The trial of Pedro Hernandez, who has admitted kidnapping and murder, is pending.

11 The parents of Lisa Irwin, from Kansas City, also allege that she must have been abducted in the middle of the night. The mother told Police she did not search, “because she was afraid of what she might find”. Disturbed earth was found behind the house, and the dog alerted in the parent’s bedroom. As a result a full search warrant was granted, and the police say they want to talk to the parents Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, one to one.

12 The cold case of 14 year old Melanie Melanson, from Massachusetts USA, who disappeared 20 years ago, has been given fresh impetus through the findings of a cadaver dog which alerted in an area targeted following a tip off to Police.

13 Another mother, Shakara Dickens, of Memphis USA, reported in 2010 that she had given up her daughter Lauryn Dickens for adoption, but the various stories turned out to be false. A dog identified cadaver odour in the house and in the boot of the car, and despite defence arguments, she was found guilty of Murder. No body has been found.

14 The infamous case of Caylee Anthony, whose mother Casey Anthony was accused of murdering her in Orlando USA, in 2011, was also notable in that the evidence of the cadaver dog handler was admitted, even though the body was found later at a different location. The dog alerted in the boot of the car, and it was alleged that the mother had then dumped the body. The evidence was highly detailed, with full description of the system of ‘final trained alert’ by the dog showing an exact position, distinguished from a more general interest. In the event Anthony was not found guilty of the murder, but was convicted of several lesser offences. There are moves to have the case reopened at Federal level.

15 In the UK, the case of Kirsi Gifford-Hull, in Winchester in 2005, is of interest since although the body was discovered by a man walking a dog, and the offender Mike Gifford-Hull had made a public appeal at a press conference for his wife to return, cadaver dogs had already alerted some weeks earlier in the house and in his car during the initial search for a “missing person”. After the trial he told officers that when he saw the dogs alerting in the car he had contemplated making a full admission. He was convicted. After the trial Judge Guy Boney QC ”. . .added that the police inquiry was so superior it could be matched with that of any other police force in the world.”


____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Investigator

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 174
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by plebgate on 07.05.13 16:06

@PeterMac
There is a picture of Mr. & Mrs. with the twins after Maddie disappeared. They are both smiling/grinning in the picture. I really disliked the picture.
Haven't seen it recently - if you can work out the one I mean would it be possible for you to post it on this thread?
I think this picture would show just why people cannot understand some of their actions not long after Maddie disappeared.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tigger on 07.05.13 16:24

It's their vindictiveness, the persecution of people they should just have ignored, instead of feeling lucky that they got away with whatever they did.

Instead, with the might of the British government behind them, they behaved as if they were untouchable and holy at the same time.
Ruining the lives of honest people, most of whom have only been doing their job, lying about all the time and effort spent by hundreds of people searching - that I do not forgive.

The ancient Greeks called this hubris. The Gods take a dim view of it I understand.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
avatar
tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 48
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile http://fytton.blogspot.nl/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Nina on 07.05.13 16:46

@plebgate wrote:@PeterMac
There is a picture of Mr. & Mrs. with the twins after Maddie disappeared. They are both smiling/grinning in the picture. I really disliked the picture.
Haven't seen it recently - if you can work out the one I mean would it be possible for you to post it on this thread?
I think this picture would show just why people cannot understand some of their actions not long after Maddie disappeared.

Is this the one you mean Plebgate? This is the link, sorry I don't know how to do the picture.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/03/many-victims-of-mccann-media-campaign.html

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 334
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 74

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by plebgate on 07.05.13 16:50

Yes, thank you Nina that is the one.

First smile in six years???? Eh.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Nina on 07.05.13 17:03

@plebgate wrote:Yes, thank you Nina that is the one.

First smile in six years???? Eh.

Can you put it up for others to see? roses

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 334
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 74

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Philthecynic on 07.05.13 17:09

@tigger wrote:It's their vindictiveness, the persecution of people they should just have ignored, instead of feeling lucky that they got away with whatever they did.

Instead, with the might of the British government behind them, they behaved as if they were untouchable and holy at the same time.
Ruining the lives of honest people, most of whom have only been doing their job, lying about all the time and effort spent by hundreds of people searching - that I do not forgive.

The ancient Greeks called this hubris. The Gods take a dim view of it I understand.
Absolutely. The sheer nerve of these guys is disgusting. My wife has a favourite saying 'What goes around comes around.' MR and MRS should bear that in mind!

____________________
A lie can go round the world before the truth gets it's boots on.
avatar
Philthecynic

Posts : 28
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-05-06
Age : 56
Location : Sittingbourne, Kent

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by PeterMac on 07.05.13 17:12

[img][/img]

Grief certainly shows itself in different ways.
Even if you have this sort of moment why photograph it and why release it to the world.

____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Investigator

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 174
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Nina on 07.05.13 17:20

@PeterMac wrote:[img][/img]

Grief certainly shows itself in different ways.
Even if you have this sort of moment why photograph it and why release it to the world.

Thank you PeterMac airkiss you are a hero. And who took this very nicely posed photograph I wonder. They both look so smug, so 'oooohhhhh aren't we having fun with our children' Now nothing wrong with that. If tragedy strikes then as normal a life has to continue with the siblings, but this was a posed photo imo and not a forced smile moment, the were positively bursting with glee. Again all imo.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 334
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 74

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by sharonl on 07.05.13 17:27

Wasn't there a news report back in 2009 that stated that Kate was travelling back to Portugal alone because she felt closer to Madeleine there, and that this was a time for reflection? I cannot find the report at the moment by I am certain that I have read this news before and that it has been recycled today for whatever reason.

____________________
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - Rebekah Brooks to David Cameron
avatar
sharonl


Posts : 4352
Reputation : 774
Join date : 2009-12-29

View user profile http://www.cold2012.org.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tigger on 07.05.13 17:36

There's a whole bunch of these where Gerry is barely mentioned - the present 'return' is presented on much the same lines and probably for the same reason. Obscuring the real purpose of the visit.


Kate McCann back in Portugal: I cry for my Madeleine every day Daily Mirror


By Victoria Ward
24/09/2009

Kate McCann fought back tears as she returned to Portugal yesterday. And she told how she will never give up the search for her missing daughter Madeleine.

At an emotional press conference in Lisbon she admitted: "I cry for her every day."

Kate, 41, was making her first trip back since she and husband Gerry were quizzed as suspects by Portuguese police. And she vowed to return to the Praia da Luz resort where Madeleine vanished on a family holiday in May 2007.

She said: "It's where I last saw her, where I last held her.

"I never really wanted to leave because I feel a little part of Madeleine is there for us. But I think the circumstances really made it impossible for us to stay.

"I have an urge to go back the whole time. I don't have any plans of when or what I will do there but yes, I will return at some point to Praia da Luz."

Kate, who has never given up hope of being reunited with her daughter, added: "She's six now, but we've just got to keep going. It has been very harrowing and draining.

"But there is no choice, she needs us to find her and bring her home."

Kate and Gerry were making a brief visit to Lisbon, where they had a series of meetings with lawyers. It was Kate's first time back in the country since their arguido, or suspect, status was lifted.

But Kate admitted that her heart has never really left the Algarve resort.

She fought back tears as she added: "It is hard to describe how painful the past 29 months has been.

"Each day, each week we get through I'm thinking, 'How's Madeleine?'"

Kate said she and Gerry gained strength from their four-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. "They ask about Madeleine every day," she said.

She admitted she was "a little scared" about making the trip to Portugal from her home in Rothley, Leics, but described it as "positive" and an important day for the whole family. She added: "We just want to find Madeleine and I believe this is a good place to be."

Meanwhile, the McCanns are suing ex-cop Gon-calo Amaral for £1million over book claims that Madeleine is dead. Any cash will go back into the search.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
avatar
tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 48
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile http://fytton.blogspot.nl/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by plebgate on 07.05.13 21:39

@PeterMac wrote:[img][/img]

Grief certainly shows itself in different ways.
Even if you have this sort of moment why photograph it and why release it to the world.


Thank you PeterMac and Nina.

plebgate

Posts : 6124
Reputation : 1795
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 07.05.13 22:25

Well, I think it's obvious that they didn't have this kind of "moments". It's photo-op and acted. Makes my skin crawl ... as so many others have done ...
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ribisl on 07.05.13 22:44

Châtelaine wrote:Well, I think it's obvious that they didn't have this kind of "moments". It's photo-op and acted. Makes my skin crawl ... as so many others have done ...
Wouldn't it be worse though if they weren't acting out for the camera but were having a genuine laugh knowing that their coffers were being filled thanks to Gerry's clever marketing ploy?

____________________
There is a taint of death, a flavour of mortality in lies... Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad

Ribisl

Posts : 807
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-02-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Ayniia on 07.05.13 22:51

@plebgate wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:[img][/img]

Grief certainly shows itself in different ways.
Even if you have this sort of moment why photograph it and why release it to the world.


Thank you PeterMac and Nina.

I believe this was taken on the day they went out with the kids to the park to please British media as stated in her book "madeleine" (I still can't get over the name without capital M)

____________________
"My advice to any British tourist ,please come to Portugal,please come to the Algarve but if you're coming as a family holiday treat it as a family holiday and do things together, don't leave the kids"
Words from an ExPat Algarve resident
avatar
Ayniia

Posts : 546
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2013-03-21
Location : Portugal

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Guest on 07.05.13 23:05

@Ribisl wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Well, I think it's obvious that they didn't have this kind of "moments". It's photo-op and acted. Makes my skin crawl ... as so many others have done ...
Wouldn't it be worse though if they weren't acting out for the camera but were having a genuine laugh knowing that their coffers were being filled thanks to Gerry's clever marketing ploy?
***
No, not IMO
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tigger on 08.05.13 7:13




Imo they're sniggering here, on a photoshoot complete with cuddlecat. Handy for hiding your face?

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
avatar
tigger

Posts : 8114
Reputation : 48
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile http://fytton.blogspot.nl/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by Nina on 08.05.13 11:15

@tigger wrote:


Imo they're sniggering here, on a photoshoot complete with cuddlecat. Handy for hiding your face?

Well Gerry is and enlarged Kate is grinning too but hiding, well nearly hiding it, behind the prop.

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 334
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 74

View user profile

Back to top Go down

BRILLIANT QUESTION

Post by PeterMac on 08.05.13 12:50

Brilliant question off the twitter site
To all Pro-McCanns, and those who hate people who ask questions, try this

"Had the McCanns taken one of your kids on holiday and lost it, would you accept the McCann version of events ?"


Touché, I think.

____________________

avatar
PeterMac
Investigator

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 174
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: Do they know the game's up ?

Post by tiny on 08.05.13 13:40

@PeterMac wrote:Brilliant question off the twitter site
To all Pro-McCanns, and those who hate people who ask questions, try this

"Had the McCanns taken one of your kids on holiday and lost it, would you accept the McCann version of events ?"


Touché, I think.

I would like Lorraine Kelly to answer this question
avatar
tiny

Posts : 2274
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2010-02-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum