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Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 10:30

@tigger wrote:
Khalgregar, I'd be interested to see how you can fit in so many crucial actions in the time given. Why exactly would it be imperative to set up a fake abduction? A 'disappearance' - having accidentally left the patio door open, child wanders out, never seen again - strikes me as the first option.

Why do you believe they set up a fake abduction rather than just let her disappear? I'll give you my answer, the obvious answer. An abduction would be 'less their fault' than a disappearance, and better explain how she does not reappear.

@tigger wrote:
Not to mention getting photographs out to the public, neither of which were from the holiday but from previous years.

Prove this. I've read through the discussions about this and the last photo on this forum, and this has not been proven in any way. I've heard a lot of wild conjecture, the sort of stuff that gives us all a bad name - yes, lots of that. But nothing even remotely concrete.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 10:45

@tigger wrote:I hope you can find time to give me your timeline for the evening. Say as from 8.30.

I will put one together for you, and it will be based on the evidence with as little conjecture as possible.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by tigger on 29.03.13 11:56

@Khalgregar wrote:
@tigger wrote:I hope you can find time to give me your timeline for the evening. Say as from 8.30.

I will put one together for you, and it will be based on the evidence with as little conjecture as possible.

I'm looking forward to it, please try to fit in the length of time for cadaver odour to develop, the realisation that the phone records might be incriminating and the subsequent deletions (which as you've read the files left one call from Gerry on Kate's phone, but the outgoing call had been deleted from Gerry's phone - so that alerted the PJ).

I asked: Not to mention getting photographs out to the public, neither of which were from the holiday but from previous years. unquote.
KG replied:
Prove this. I've read through the discussions about this and the last photo on this forum, and this has not been proven in any way. I've heard a lot of wild conjecture, the sort of stuff that gives us all a bad name - yes, lots of that. But nothing even remotely concrete. unquote

This has nothing to do with the 'last photo' in fact your answer has nothing to do with the question I asked. It's not an answer.
The two photographs selected to help find the girl were both printed from an USB key (they had no laptops with them) it has never been contested by TM that neither photograph was from the holiday.
My point was why not use a recent photo which would have been on the camera - a recent photograph would certainly give a better chance of finding her.
Certainly in just a few hours in the theory you propose, I'd have thought the camera would be one's first thought, not: by great good luck we have these two very appealing photographs on an USB key which we took with us for no reason at all since we have no laptop with us....

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 13:19

@tigger wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:
@tigger wrote:I hope you can find time to give me your timeline for the evening. Say as from 8.30.

I will put one together for you, and it will be based on the evidence with as little conjecture as possible.

I'm looking forward to it, please try to fit in the length of time for cadaver odour to develop, the realisation that the phone records might be incriminating and the subsequent deletions (which as you've read the files left one call from Gerry on Kate's phone, but the outgoing call had been deleted from Gerry's phone - so that alerted the PJ).

I asked: Not to mention getting photographs out to the public, neither of which were from the holiday but from previous years. unquote.
KG replied:
Prove this. I've read through the discussions about this and the last photo on this forum, and this has not been proven in any way. I've heard a lot of wild conjecture, the sort of stuff that gives us all a bad name - yes, lots of that. But nothing even remotely concrete. unquote

This has nothing to do with the 'last photo' in fact your answer has nothing to do with the question I asked. It's not an answer.
The two photographs selected to help find the girl were both printed from an USB key (they had no laptops with them) it has never been contested by TM that neither photograph was from the holiday.
My point was why not use a recent photo which would have been on the camera - a recent photograph would certainly give a better chance of finding her.
Certainly in just a few hours in the theory you propose, I'd have thought the camera would be one's first thought, not: by great good luck we have these two very appealing photographs on an USB key which we took with us for no reason at all since we have no laptop with us....

Are you suggesting that they planned to kill Madeleine even before they left for the holiday?

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 13:24

@tigger wrote:I asked: Not to mention getting photographs out to the public, neither of which were from the holiday but from previous years. unquote.

This isn't a question.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 13:29

@tigger wrote:

The photograph of the McCanns smiling broadly on leaving the church. Which was exactly the same day the young woman above wrote of her agony!

I see a photograph of Gerry smiling broadly, undoubtedly. I also see Kate smiling politely, not broadly. 'Broadly' is your interpretation of what you see, it isn't what I see, as far as Kate is concerned. Gerry, now I agree with you 100%.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by plebgate on 29.03.13 13:40

snipped from |Miritas and khalgregar's posts:
quote
P.S Agreed Khalgregar (hope I spelled right...)
BridgetO'Donnell's writings seem very strange, her statements are a bit
'too positive' to be credible...quote

quote
Yeah you spelled it right, just don't try to say it out loud ;-)quote


I said it out loud, Karl Gregar/Gregor sounds Russian to me? Somebody famous?

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 13:49

On the question of 'USB keys' and the absence of a laptop to read them:

From the witness statement of Amy Tierney on 17th April 2007:

'When on the night of 3rd May, at about 24.00, she was at her desk at the Tapas bar, inside the resort, when at a certain time, one of the friends of the McCann couple, Russell, asked for a memory card reader, in order to print photographs of Madeleine. Immediately the deponent replied that she did not have a memory card reader, but that she had a printer with this hardware, which could read from memory cards.

She went to her room and returned to the Tapas with the printer where she printed out 20 to 30 photographs of the girl, using her own paper, in 10x15 format mentioned previously. The memory card containing the photos belonged to the McCann couple, and came from their camera.'

There was no memory stick that required a laptop, i.e. a Universal Serial Bus port - A.T. was talking about a typical SD type flash memory card. That's why they asked for a memory card reader, that's why A.T. says that it 'came from their camera,' that's why this statement mentions 'memory cards' three times.

No mystery here at all.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 14:25

@tigger wrote:
@Khalgregar wrote:On the question of 'USB keys' and the absence of a laptop to read them:

From the witness statement of Amy Tierney on 17th April 2007:

'When on the night of 3rd May, at about 24.00, she was at her desk at the Tapas bar, inside the resort, when at a certain time, one of the friends of the McCann couple, Russell, asked for a memory card reader, in order to print photographs of Madeleine. Immediately the deponent replied that she did not have a memory card reader, but that she had a printer with this hardware, which could read from memory cards.

She went to her room and returned to the Tapas with the printer where she printed out 20 to 30 photographs of the girl, using her own paper, in 10x15 format mentioned previously. The memory card containing the photos belonged to the McCann couple, and came from their camera.'

There was no memory stick that required a laptop, i.e. a Universal Serial Bus port - A.T. was talking about a typical SD type flash memory card. That's why they asked for a memory card reader, that's why A.T. says that it 'came from their camera,' that's why this statement mentions 'memory cards' three times.

No mystery here at all.

I too, have read the files. I know the photographs were printed from an USB stick by Anne Tierney - this once again, is not an answer to the following question:

The two photographs selected to help find the girl were both printed from an USB key (they had no laptops with them) it has never been contested by TM that neither photograph was from the holiday.
My point was why not use a recent photo which would have been on the camera - a recent photograph would certainly give a better chance of finding her.
Certainly in just a few hours in the theory you propose, I'd have thought the camera would be one's first thought, not: by great good luck we have these two very appealing photographs on an USB key which we took with us for no reason at all since we have no laptop with us....
unquote

At no point did I argue that there was NO USB stick. I totally, totally believe there was a USB stick and it was used. I just wondered why older photographs and why not from the camera?

Please read my last post again, thoroughly. I have posted a statement from A.T. who states that it was a memory card, not a USB stick, and that it came from the McCanns' camera.

There was no USB stick, tigger. It did not require a laptop. It was a memory card. The memory card came from the McCanns' camera.

Why older photographs? I've seen the photo used in the posters, and I would describe it as a shot that shows Madeleine's face full on. I see nothing wrong with the choice of photo, and definitely nothing mysterious about it.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 14:28

@tigger wrote:I too, have read the files. I know the photographs were printed from an USB stick by Anne Tierney - this once again, is not an answer to the following question:

The two photographs selected to help find the girl were both printed from an USB key (they had no laptops with them) it has never been contested by TM that neither photograph was from the holiday.
My point was why not use a recent photo which would have been on the camera - a recent photograph would certainly give a better chance of finding her.
Certainly in just a few hours in the theory you propose, I'd have thought the camera would be one's first thought, not: by great good luck we have these two very appealing photographs on an USB key which we took with us for no reason at all since we have no laptop with us....
unquote

At no point did I argue that there was NO USB stick. I totally, totally believe there was a USB stick and it was used. I just wondered why older photographs and why not from the camera?

You appear to have deleted this post for some reason :) Here it is, in case you deleted it accidentally ;-)

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 14:35

@plebgate wrote:snipped from |Miritas and khalgregar's posts:
quote
P.S Agreed Khalgregar (hope I spelled right...)
BridgetO'Donnell's writings seem very strange, her statements are a bit
'too positive' to be credible...quote

quote
Yeah you spelled it right, just don't try to say it out loud ;-)quote


I said it out loud, Karl Gregar/Gregor sounds Russian to me? Somebody famous?

There's a Karl Gregor on LinkedIn who belongs to the pharmaceutical industry, hmmmm, strange coincidence -

Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Overview


Current
• Director, Market Access and Value Strategy at OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Past
• Director, Market Access & Reimbursement at Innovus
• Director, Global Health Outcomes at Eli Lilly & Company
• Director at EliLilly and Company
see all
Education
• University of Arizona
Connections
360 connections
Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Experience

Director, Market Access and Value Strategy
OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; UNH; Management Consulting industry
November 2008 – Present (4 years 5 months) Indianapolis, Indiana Area

Director, Market Access & Reimbursement
Innovus
November 2008 – December 2011 (3 years 2 months)

Director, Global Health Outcomes
Eli Lilly & Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
2002 – 2008 (6 years)

Director
EliLilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
April 1994 – September 2008 (14 years 6 months)

Director
Eli Lilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
1993 – 2008 (15 years)

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 14:46

@Newintown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:snipped from |Miritas and khalgregar's posts:
quote
P.S Agreed Khalgregar (hope I spelled right...)
BridgetO'Donnell's writings seem very strange, her statements are a bit
'too positive' to be credible...quote

quote
Yeah you spelled it right, just don't try to say it out loud ;-)quote


I said it out loud, Karl Gregar/Gregor sounds Russian to me? Somebody famous?

There's a Karl Gregor on LinkedIn who belongs to the pharmaceutical industry, hmmmm, strange coincidence -

Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Overview


Current
• Director, Market Access and Value Strategy at OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Past
• Director, Market Access & Reimbursement at Innovus
• Director, Global Health Outcomes at Eli Lilly & Company
• Director at EliLilly and Company
see all
Education
• University of Arizona
Connections
360 connections
Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Experience

Director, Market Access and Value Strategy
OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; UNH; Management Consulting industry
November 2008 – Present (4 years 5 months) Indianapolis, Indiana Area

Director, Market Access & Reimbursement
Innovus
November 2008 – December 2011 (3 years 2 months)

Director, Global Health Outcomes
Eli Lilly & Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
2002 – 2008 (6 years)

Director
EliLilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
April 1994 – September 2008 (14 years 6 months)

Director
Eli Lilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
1993 – 2008 (15 years)

You got me! winkwink

Nobody famous unfortunately sad

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 14:58

@Khalgregar wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
@plebgate wrote:snipped from |Miritas and khalgregar's posts:
quote
P.S Agreed Khalgregar (hope I spelled right...)
BridgetO'Donnell's writings seem very strange, her statements are a bit
'too positive' to be credible...quote

quote
Yeah you spelled it right, just don't try to say it out loud ;-)quote


I said it out loud, Karl Gregar/Gregor sounds Russian to me? Somebody famous?

There's a Karl Gregor on LinkedIn who belongs to the pharmaceutical industry, hmmmm, strange coincidence -

Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Overview


Current
• Director, Market Access and Value Strategy at OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Past
• Director, Market Access & Reimbursement at Innovus
• Director, Global Health Outcomes at Eli Lilly & Company
• Director at EliLilly and Company
see all
Education
• University of Arizona
Connections
360 connections
Karl Gregor, PharmD, MS's Experience

Director, Market Access and Value Strategy
OptumInsight (previously i3Innovus)
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; UNH; Management Consulting industry
November 2008 – Present (4 years 5 months) Indianapolis, Indiana Area

Director, Market Access & Reimbursement
Innovus
November 2008 – December 2011 (3 years 2 months)

Director, Global Health Outcomes
Eli Lilly & Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
2002 – 2008 (6 years)

Director
EliLilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
April 1994 – September 2008 (14 years 6 months)

Director
Eli Lilly and Company
Public Company; 10,001+ employees; LLY; Pharmaceuticals industry
1993 – 2008 (15 years)

You got me!

Nobody famous unfortunately

I've copied this over from the "Hi All blog" on the Welcome section -



Re: Hi all
Khalgregar Today at 12:10 am
.I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Gerry and Kate scour these forums too, so I would like to say a few words to them, and then I'm done with this thread :)
Gerry and Kate - you have made it very difficult to believe your account of events, and I have tried very hard to believe it. However, the more I looked into the evidence of the case, the less I believed. But whatever the truth is, there are two victims of this tragedy that I suspect go unnoticed by most people - Sean and Amelie. They, no doubt, have already been exposed to the rumours about you, and about their long-lost sister. It must be dreadfully painful for them.
I feel no personal animosity towards either of you. I just want the truth. I don't want either of you to spend time in prison - whether this was deserved or not - as this would wreck your childrens' lives.
The best thing for Sean and Amelie, would be for you both to accept that Madeleine may never be found, and retreat from the limelight. Stop the litigation, stop lobbying the British Government, and focus on making your kids' childhoods great. You don't need Carter-Ruck or Clarence Mitchell - just keep to yourselves, and although people like us will nitpick the available evidence for many years to come, the majority of people will forget and eventually leave you in peace. You must worry every day of your lives that one or other of the Tapas group will break. If you stay away from the public eye, this is far less likely to happen.
Beware the British Press. You banished them to their cave and took the spoils, but they are only sleeping, and waiting. If they sense that the tide is turning, they will wake up, and they will destroy you. And your children with you. Don't let that happen.

*************************

Firstly, if you've been following this forum for some time as you mentioned, you would know that K & G McCann follow every word printed on here.

The message copied above from the Hi All blog, clearly gives the impression that you are papering over the cracks on behalf of the McCanns and are doing your upmost to make people forget or to forgive what the McCanns have been up to for the past 6 years.

We weren't all born yesterday, you know. The phrase "A wolf in sheep's clothing comes to mind".

Your connection to the pharmaceutical industry is a red flag if ever I've seen one. Do you know Gerry McCann by any chance?

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 29.03.13 15:00

Getting back to the photographs on postcard format, readily available at the night Madeleine went missing.

IIRC the PJ spent quite some time in trying to locate the printer and the photographic paper.
Also IIRC neither of them were found to be available. AT's boyfriend went to France [never to be found?] and took the printer with him. The paper was not on sale in PdL or its vicinity.

There was a printer, though, with which A-4 plain paper photographs were reproduced.
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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 15:01

@Newintown wrote:Firstly, if you've been following this forum for some time as you mentioned, you would know that K & G McCann follow every word printed on here.

The message copied above from the Hi All blog, clearly gives the impression that you are papering over the cracks on behalf of the McCanns and are doing your upmost to make people forget or to forgive what the McCanns have been up to for the past 6 years.

We weren't all born yesterday, you know. The phrase "A wolf in sheep's clothing comes to mind".

Your connection to the pharmaceutical industry is a red flag if ever I've seen one. Do you know Gerry McCann by any chance?

Admins, feel free to ask me any details, I will be completely transparent about my identity, which is not that of this Karl Gregor fellow from Indianapolis. I am a Software Engineer from Cambridge, England. I grew up watching stuff like The Young Ones and Blackadder. Tom Baker was my Doctor Who.

Please take this ridiculous accusation back.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 15:05

Châtelaine wrote:Getting back to the photographs on postcard format, readily available at the night Madeleine went missing.

IIRC the PJ spent quite some time in trying to locate the printer and the photographic paper.
Also IIRC neither of them were found to be available. AT's boyfriend went to France [never to be found?] and took the printer with him. The paper was not on sale in PdL or its vicinity.

There was a printer, though, with which A-4 plain paper photographs were reproduced.

You seem to have ignored the fact, which has been mentioned on here many, many times, that the "last" photo of Madeleine, sitting on the side of the pool, which was supposed to have been taken on the afternoon of 3 May 2007, only came to light 3 WEEKS after Madeleine disappeared and Gerry had gone back to the UK.

If it was on the camera available to the PJ immediately when she disappeared, why wasn't it shown to the public there and then?

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 29.03.13 15:06

Please discuss the topic and not the poster, the thread is getting disrupted. Thanks.
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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Guest on 29.03.13 15:06

I'm afraid that Newintown misread Khalgregar's sentence: "I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Gerry and Kate scour these forums too, so I would like to say a few words to them".
It means to me that they [Khalgregor] do believe that the McCanns follow this and many other blogs, either in person or via hired assistance.
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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 15:07

@Khalgregar wrote:Your connection to the pharmaceutical industry is a red flag if ever I've seen one.

I was joking, was I not clear enough? I don't have any connections to the pharmaceutical industry. I'm a games programmer.

@Khalgregar wrote:Do you know Gerry McCann by any chance?

No.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 15:07

Châtelaine wrote:I'm afraid that Newintown misread Khalgregar's sentence: "I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Gerry and Kate scour these forums too, so I would like to say a few words to them".
It means to me that they [Khalgregor] do believe that the McCanns follow this and many other blogs, either in person or via hired assistance.

Yes, sorry, misread that. I was reading too quickly.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 15:09

Châtelaine wrote:I'm afraid that Newintown misread Khalgregar's sentence: "I don't think it is too far-fetched to assume that Gerry and Kate scour these forums too, so I would like to say a few words to them".
It means to me that they [Khalgregor] do believe that the McCanns follow this and many other blogs, either in person or via hired assistance.

Yes, that's exactly what it means :)

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 15:11

candyfloss wrote:Please discuss the topic and not the poster, the thread is getting disrupted. Thanks.

Okey dokey, many apologies.

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 15:13

@Newintown wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Please discuss the topic and not the poster, the thread is getting disrupted. Thanks.

Okey dokey, many apologies.

Apology accepted big grin Let's move on, and back to the topic!

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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Newintown on 29.03.13 15:33

@Khalgregar wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Please discuss the topic and not the poster, the thread is getting disrupted. Thanks.

Okey dokey, many apologies.

Apology accepted Let's move on, and back to the topic!

I was apologising to Candyfloss as you well know. You seem to have ignored my post regarding the "last" photo of Madeleine, although luckily for you Candyfloss has got out her ruler for rapping knuckles with and we can't discuss it here.


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Re: Madeleine sleeping on top of the covers

Post by Khalgregar on 29.03.13 15:35

Châtelaine wrote:Getting back to the photographs on postcard format, readily available at the night Madeleine went missing.

IIRC the PJ spent quite some time in trying to locate the printer and the photographic paper.
Also IIRC neither of them were found to be available. AT's boyfriend went to France [never to be found?] and took the printer with him. The paper was not on sale in PdL or its vicinity.

There was a printer, though, with which A-4 plain paper photographs were reproduced.

If the printer was the property of AT's boyfriend, I don't see him taking it with him when he went to France as suspicious. It was his, and he may have had reasons to use a printer in France. Who knows.

The paper was not on sale in PdL or its vicinity. Is this confirmed fact? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't know the answer!) Even if it is, I see a full box-set of Battlestar Galactica on the shelf in front of me. I'm certain that no shops in this little town sell it. Suspicious? No, of course not. It's the kind of thing you would see in a Sherlock Holmes story, but in reality people own stuff that is not available in the immediate vicinity. Factor into that the probability that someone with a printer might want to print out photographs, owning photographic paper like this seem's a no-brainer. Look, I have a box of the paper in my drawer next to me. Not suspicious at all, in my opinion.

Khalgregar

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