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The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

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The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Khalgregar on 26.03.13 19:44

Hi, I'm new :)

Here are a few quotes from KH's book, all from a couple of pages covering the time that the couple were made arguidos:

'Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. He explained that this was my right as an arguida and it was the safest option: any responses I gave might unintentionally implicate me in some way.'

You can only be implicated if you were involved. If you were innocent, no amount of truth could incriminate you. Also note how this sentence does not say 'implicate me even though I was innocent'. Additionally, surely a lawyer would encourage a client to talk if they were convinced of their innocence. I can only see one reason to give the counsel of maintaining absolute silence.

'On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating 'No Comment' didn't involve engaging my brain.'

Telling untruths and keeping stories straight certainly does involve some brain power, whereas telling the truth should surely be less of a mental feat.

On the 'dogs' videos: 'I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science.'

Regardless of how reliable the dogs actually are, is Kate saying that 'an exact science' is what she was really worried about? 'An exact science' that would prove, what, that you are innocent???

I'll skip over the 'f**king tosser' bit - it just shows Kate in her true colours I think.

'Gerry was uneasy about [the deal] being made public...'

Why, exactly?

'Like me, Gerry had been relieved by the inadequacies revealed by the sniffer-dog videos'

Because Gerry had something to fear from evidence that was adequate?

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Guest on 26.03.13 21:36

Welcome to the club, Khalgregar.
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by ShuBob on 26.03.13 22:00

Khalgregar wrote:Hi, I'm new :)

Here are a few quotes from KH's book, all from a couple of pages covering the time that the couple were made arguidos:

'Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. He explained that this was my right as an arguida and it was the safest option: any responses I gave might unintentionally implicate me in some way.'

You can only be implicated if you were involved. If you were innocent, no amount of truth could incriminate you. Also note how this sentence does not say 'implicate me even though I was innocent'.

ShuBob: Well, one can indeed be implicated by the truth if they confess

Additionally, surely a lawyer would encourage a client to talk if they were convinced of their innocence. I can only see one reason to give the counsel of maintaining absolute silence.

ShuBob: According to Kate, the lawyer wanted her to do a plea deal. Seems he didn't believe in her innocence.

'On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating 'No Comment' didn't involve engaging my brain.'

Telling untruths and keeping stories straight certainly does involve some brain power, whereas telling the truth should surely be less of a mental feat.

On the 'dogs' videos: 'I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science.'

Regardless of how reliable the dogs actually are, is Kate saying that 'an exact science' is what she was really worried about? 'An exact science' that would prove, what, that you are innocent???

I'll skip over the 'f**king tosser' bit - it just shows Kate in her true colours I think.

'Gerry was uneasy about [the deal] being made public...'

Why, exactly?

'Like me, Gerry had been relieved by the inadequacies revealed by the sniffer-dog videos'

Because Gerry had something to fear from evidence that was adequate?

Welcome Khalgregar

My responses are in blue.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Miraflores on 26.03.13 22:09

I didn't think they had plea deals in Portugal? Someone in the McCann camp watching too many American crime progs?
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Khalgregar on 26.03.13 22:13

Miraflores wrote:I didn't think they had plea deals in Portugal? Someone in the McCann camp watching too many American crime progs?

It never was a plea bargain. It was a statement of fact - that if they didn't come clean, they would be looking at a longer sentence.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by ShuBob on 26.03.13 22:30

Khalgregar wrote:
Miraflores wrote:I didn't think they had plea deals in Portugal? Someone in the McCann camp watching too many American crime progs?

It never was a plea bargain. It was a statement of fact - that if they didn't come clean, they would be looking at a longer sentence.

Quite.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Guest on 26.03.13 23:20

Following this thread with great interest.
But .. it's getting late, so I bid you et al good night :-)
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by tigger on 27.03.13 6:11

ShuBob wrote:
Khalgregar wrote:Hi, I'm new :)

Here are a few quotes from KH's book, all from a couple of pages covering the time that the couple were made arguidos:

'Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. He explained that this was my right as an arguida and it was the safest option: any responses I gave might unintentionally implicate me in some way.'

You can only be implicated if you were involved. If you were innocent, no amount of truth could incriminate you. Also note how this sentence does not say 'implicate me even though I was innocent'.

ShuBob: Well, one can indeed be implicated by the truth if they confess

Additionally, surely a lawyer would encourage a client to talk if they were convinced of their innocence. I can only see one reason to give the counsel of maintaining absolute silence.

ShuBob: According to Kate, the lawyer wanted her to do a plea deal. Seems he didn't believe in her innocence.

'On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating 'No Comment' didn't involve engaging my brain.'

Telling untruths and keeping stories straight certainly does involve some brain power, whereas telling the truth should surely be less of a mental feat.

On the 'dogs' videos: 'I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science.'

Regardless of how reliable the dogs actually are, is Kate saying that 'an exact science' is what she was really worried about? 'An exact science' that would prove, what, that you are innocent???

I'll skip over the 'f**king tosser' bit - it just shows Kate in her true colours I think.

'Gerry was uneasy about [the deal] being made public...'

Why, exactly?

'Like me, Gerry had been relieved by the inadequacies revealed by the sniffer-dog videos'

Because Gerry had something to fear from evidence that was adequate?

Welcome Khalgregar

My responses are in blue.

Hi Khalgregar and welcome.

'I felt myself starting to relax a little' - the perfect truth imo.
If there was nothing to find, she should have been relaxed all along. She then (they seem very proud of being 'doctors') moves straight into 'science' and what 'we' (the anointed doctors) call a 'blind study'. Of course we uneducated plebs wouldn't know about such scientific things. However, she doesn't explain it. Comparing it to a blind study is wrong in the first place as they are to do with establishing the effectiveness of e.g. a particular drug.
Following a successful blind study for a drug, it can then be used routinely on patients.

The dog's training can be compared to a blind study, once they have successfully passed with a 100% success rate, they can be deployed. 100% success rate is not required in medicine, hence the many warnings of side effects.

Kate suggests that they were 'trying the dogs out' rather like a drug. Not so.




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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by plebgate on 27.03.13 10:04

The solicitor offered her advice - she did not have to take any notice of that advice especially if, as the police believed, it might hinder the search for Maddie. She made the decision not to answer the questions.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Guest on 27.03.13 10:09

Didn't they both have the same solicitor? Why then did GM answer all the questions, so I wonder why was he not advised to do the same as KM?
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Khalgregar on 27.03.13 10:13

candyfloss wrote:Didn't they both have the same solicitor? Why then did GM answer all the questions, so I wonder why was he not advised to do the same as KM?

Just wild speculation from me, but I suspect that the plan that was possibly put in action on May 3rd was Gerry's idea, and Kate wanted to go to the police. The stuff that was overheard 'We let her down!' strikes me as one half of an argument. The other side of the argument was given quietly, so as not to be overheard. However, Kate was hysterical, grieving.

So with that in my mind, I think Kate was of the mind that 'none of this is my fault, let Gerry answer the questions.'

I also suspect that Gerry is not good at following instruction or taking advice.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Khalgregar on 27.03.13 10:21

Khalgregar wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Didn't they both have the same solicitor? Why then did GM answer all the questions, so I wonder why was he not advised to do the same as KM?

Just wild speculation from me, but I suspect that the plan that was possibly put in action on May 3rd was Gerry's idea, and Kate wanted to go to the police. The stuff that was overheard 'We let her down!' strikes me as one half of an argument.

So with that in my mind, I think Kate was of the mind that 'none of this is my fault, let Gerry answer the questions.'

I also suspect that Gerry is not good at following instruction or taking advice.

Quoting myself, as I've had a further thought on this ;-)

I suspect that the police felt the same - that Kate was the weak link - and that was why they interviewed her first. They were hoping that she would crack, because Gerry most certainly wouldn't. Unfortunately, this was a misjudgement.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Guest on 27.03.13 15:00

IIRC Amaral writes in his book about the moment they thought Kate was going to crack. But then she refound herself quickly.

Also IIRC Gerry has mentioned in an interview that he was not going to reply any questions of the PJ, but then - as he couldn't resist to react to the very first one - decided to reply to the following questions too.

Sorry, cannot give you any direct links right now ...
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Monty Heck on 27.03.13 19:53

candyfloss Today at 10:09 am




[quote]Didn't they both have the same solicitor? Why then did GM answer all the questions, so I wonder why was he not advised to do the same as KM?
[end quote]



***********


As someone else has already answered, G claims he was similarly advised beforehand but on hearing the first question decided he would respond to them all. Not a very convincing explanation of why a planned refusal to co-operate was abandoned at the last minute. An explanation that might have been given: "I had intended not to answer any questions but I realised that this might jeopardise the investigation into my daughter's disappearance and therefore changed my mind" would have a more convincing ring of truth but that didn't appear to be a consideration for either arguido at that time.

A more plausible explanation IMO, is that, if one answered questions and the other didn't, any chance of contradicting one another would be averted and believe that, if G had been interviewed first, he would have been the one not to answer. For me, one of the great missed opportunities of the case is that they were given too much notice of the impending interviews so had time to work out the strategy they adopted, then K was allowed home to discuss what she had been asked with G before he was taken in to be questioned. And also IMO, in his answers, G did not seem to go out of his way particularly to assist the investigation, contrary to what one might expect in a parent anxious to ensure the truth was established. Both appeared more interested in finding out what level of evidence there was against them, and for K to say that she "began to relax" when viewing the cadaver recovery dog's reactions is to me a simply astounding statement to have made.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Casey5 on 27.03.13 20:32

Candyfloss said:-
"A more plausible explanation IMO, is that, if one answered questions and
the other didn't, any chance of contradicting one another would be
averted and believe that, if G had been interviewed first, he would have
been the one not to answer."

Exactly what I think candyfloss. They decided only one of them would answer questions so their answers couldn't be compared. Where the PJ fell down seriously imo was allowing Gerry and Kate access to each other in the first place. Whoever was interviewed first should have been taken either to a police cell or a guarded hotel room until the other one had been interviewed. That's just common sense.

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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Guest on 27.03.13 20:40

Casey5 wrote:Candyfloss said:-
"A more plausible explanation IMO, is that, if one answered questions and
the other didn't, any chance of contradicting one another would be
averted and believe that, if G had been interviewed first, he would have
been the one not to answer."

Exactly what I think candyfloss. They decided only one of them would answer questions so their answers couldn't be compared. Where the PJ fell down seriously imo was allowing Gerry and Kate access to each other in the first place. Whoever was interviewed first should have been taken either to a police cell or a guarded hotel room until the other one had been interviewed. That's just common sense.



No, I didn't say that Casey, it was Monty Heck, who has the quotes mixed. My bit is the bold in the post. I will try and edit so that it's clearer.
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Re: The truth has a habit of coming out, whether you like it or not

Post by Monty Heck on 27.03.13 21:22

Casey5 Today at 8:32 pm




Candyfloss said:-
"A more plausible explanation IMO, is that, if one answered questions and
the other didn't, any chance of contradicting one another would be
averted and believe that, if G had been interviewed first, he would have
been the one not to answer."

Exactly what I think candyfloss. They decided only one of them would answer questions so their answers couldn't be compared. Where the PJ fell down seriously imo was allowing Gerry and Kate access to each other in the first place. Whoever was interviewed first should have been taken either to a police cell or a guarded hotel room until the other one had been interviewed. That's just common sense.

Candyfloss is correct the quote in bold italic above is from my post. The PJ did indeed fall down seriously by not bringing them in for questioning at the same time and keeping them apart during it. They also fell down IMO, by failing to question the other T9 members with any rigour about the "checking" routine or the almost miraculous way such a large group of small children could be relied upon to fall, and stay asleep each night, allowing their parents their nightly "me" time, and for allowing them to return home on the premise that all would return if and when required. Who knows, one day Grange might look into some of these matters - one can but hope.

MH
Edited to add: the original quote from Candyfloss was copied and pasted but apologies if there was any mix up there.

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