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Religion and the McCanns

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.09.13 14:12

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I think that Jesus himself criticised people who flaunted their faith in public. If he existed, he spoke a lot of sense and he'd probably be horrified to see what is done in his name now.
There's plenty of material available, from secular as well as Christian sources, on which to believe that Christ existed (I will provide links if anyone is interested).

According to the Bible account, he was crucified, then buried in the tomb of a wealthy Jew, Joseph of Arimathaea.

Christ had been a great heap of trouble to both the Roman governors of Judaea and to the religious elite of the day, the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Pontius Pilate therefore commanded a strong guard of soldiers to be posted round the stone which covered His grave.

When the stone was rolled away, the Roman soldiers panicked, fearing severe disciplinary action or even execution for having failed to secure Christ's body.

Fortunately, the religious elite - who hated Christ more than anyone else (n the passage below, they called Him 'that deciever') - found a solution.

Just as others have done before and after them with greater or lesser success, they created an elaborate hoax to explain why the body wasn't there (bolded bit below) - Matthew 27 v 55 to Matthew 28 v 15:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Just after His crucfixion...]

And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:

Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre.

Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.

So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.

And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.

So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by suzyjohnson on 22.09.13 19:42

Finn wrote:But from MW's rog 


I haven't seen Kate and Gerry very often, but we always met at family events such as weddings and baptisms. I didn't attend their wedding because my wife, Anne-Marie, was ill and we didn't attend their children's baptisms because we were away on holidays. 
Right, so in other words, MW hardly knows the McCanns

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by Guest on 22.09.13 20:17

No, he turns it around by adding:


MW Rog contd wrote:That said, since the birth of the twins we have met more frequently. In August 2006 they came to visit us at our house one weekend and that was very pleasant. On our side, we visited them in Rothley in November 2006 and they repeated their visit [to us] in February 2007. We work well together as a group and we know each other very well. We were planning a family holiday [together] for June 2007 at Center Park. 
I guess they prefer non religious get togethers. Interesting they'd planned to go away in June. That's a lot of hols for a young family in early 2007.
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by Seek truth on 22.09.13 21:58

@tigger wrote:Michael Wright is married to a cousin of Dr Kate McCann

On Sunday 15th July, Michael Wright’s two children were christened - or ‘baptised’ – at Skipton. It is known that Dr Gerry McCann and Dr Kate McCann attended, flying into England on different days.

By way of background, the Wrights are Roman Catholics. Nearly always, practising Roman Catholics baptise, or ‘christen’, their children, at a young age. It is a key Roman Catholic sacrament and is thought by Roman Catholics to assure eternal salvation. . Christening children at the age of 12 and 10 is unusual.
Most recently it has become a common practice for parents of unchristened children to adopt to help ensure that their children are given a better chance of attending a good Roman Catholic secondary school.

I do not believe that selecting the appropriate school would have been a factor here. By July the schools need to have been selected and one would expect sensible parents to have secured a place for their children somewhat earlier.
Leaving your children unbaptised as RC is most unusual. Should a child die in such a condition it will automatically go to purgatory. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

The McCanns stood as godparents for this occasion. It was Kate's first trip to the UK and Gerry's 3rd I believe.  
Getting christened later does not get you into a catholic school. Usually It's guaranteed if you christened your child before they reached one.

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by MissesWillYa on 23.09.13 2:25

Finn wrote:
And the good bewk
That weekend, the children and I flew out to the UK and were joined by Gerry in Yorkshire. Michael and Anne-Marie had asked us to stand as godparents to their children. Katie and Patrick had never been baptized as babies, and I think the decision to do this now had perhaps been precipitated by what has happened to us. It had concentrated everyone's minds on how fragile life is, how it can be wrecked in an instant. 

Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism. I had not set foot in the UK since Madeleine's abduction and although for me this was an emotional journey, it was not the same as 'going home'. The press, however, were bound to see it that way, and we were worried they would turn up in force and spoil this family occasion. So with the cooperation of the authorities in both countries, we kept it under the radar, and, thanks to the police, for once we managed to stay one step ahead of our media shadows, much to their annoyance when they eventually found out. Instead the church was patrolled by police - Skipton, Michael declared, had never seen so many - a rather more reassuring and less intrusive presence. 
Kate goes off on a tangent justifying the baptisms, why?, and then  spares everyone from press intrusion (must be a first) and then assures us that the church and grounds were well secured by the police to quell any suspicious minds. 

"Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism"


I don't see anything natural about why they'd badly need to attend. The Wrights didn't attend their own children's christenings and it wasn't a problem. A lot of organisation for such a low key service not to mention MW, the dad himself flying over to PDL to collect Kate, bring her to Skipton, have the service and then fly back to PDL. Godparents don't need to physically attend a baptism, this can be easily done by proxy, just a formality in view of what happened. IMO If it was such a big deal for the family, MW would be home with his family in preparation and GM would have accompanied his wife and children on the flight home.
I was just going to say the same thing about proxies. My grandparents stood in for my godparents when I was baptized (in a Catholic church at one month old) because both of my godparents lived on the other side of the country from where my parents were living at the time.

I'm curious - when was the Wright children's baptism in relation to the stolen wallet/sick airplane passenger escapade?
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by ultimaThule on 23.09.13 7:45

@MissesWillYa wrote:
Finn wrote:
And the good bewk
That weekend, the children and I flew out to the UK and were joined by Gerry in Yorkshire. Michael and Anne-Marie had asked us to stand as godparents to their children. Katie and Patrick had never been baptized as babies, and I think the decision to do this now had perhaps been precipitated by what has happened to us. It had concentrated everyone's minds on how fragile life is, how it can be wrecked in an instant. 

Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism. I had not set foot in the UK since Madeleine's abduction and although for me this was an emotional journey, it was not the same as 'going home'. The press, however, were bound to see it that way, and we were worried they would turn up in force and spoil this family occasion. So with the cooperation of the authorities in both countries, we kept it under the radar, and, thanks to the police, for once we managed to stay one step ahead of our media shadows, much to their annoyance when they eventually found out. Instead the church was patrolled by police - Skipton, Michael declared, had never seen so many - a rather more reassuring and less intrusive presence. 
Kate goes off on a tangent justifying the baptisms, why?, and then  spares everyone from press intrusion (must be a first) and then assures us that the church and grounds were well secured by the police to quell any suspicious minds. 

"Naturally, we badly wanted to be at the baptism"


I don't see anything natural about why they'd badly need to attend. The Wrights didn't attend their own children's christenings and it wasn't a problem. A lot of organisation for such a low key service not to mention MW, the dad himself flying over to PDL to collect Kate, bring her to Skipton, have the service and then fly back to PDL. Godparents don't need to physically attend a baptism, this can be easily done by proxy, just a formality in view of what happened. IMO If it was such a big deal for the family, MW would be home with his family in preparation and GM would have accompanied his wife and children on the flight home.
I was just going to say the same thing about proxies. My grandparents stood in for my godparents when I was baptized (in a Catholic church at one month old) because both of my godparents lived on the other side of the country from where my parents were living at the time.

I'm curious - when was the Wright children's baptism in relation to the stolen wallet/sick airplane passenger escapade?
In his early blogs the Gospel according to St Gerry has it that on 19 June 2007 he: "Flew in to London for a series of meetings.  Helped a passenger on the flight who collapsed.  He was ill enough to require a full assessment on arrival and went off to hospital in an ambulance."

"Unfortunately shortly after arriving in London I had my wallet stolen which meant I was running late.  I did manage to get to all my meetings which ran late into the evening."

The baptism of the Wright children took place in Skipton on 14 July 2007.
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by MissesWillYa on 23.09.13 14:43

@ultimaThule wrote:In his early blogs the Gospel according to St Gerry has it that on 19 June 2007 he: "Flew in to London for a series of meetings.  Helped a passenger on the flight who collapsed.  He was ill enough to require a full assessment on arrival and went off to hospital in an ambulance."

"Unfortunately shortly after arriving in London I had my wallet stolen which meant I was running late.  I did manage to get to all my meetings which ran late into the evening."

The baptism of the Wright children took place in Skipton on 14 July 2007.
Okay, thanks. I couldn't remember exactly when he experienced that series of unfortunate events...
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by ultimaThule on 23.09.13 15:44

@MissesWillYa wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:In his early blogs the Gospel according to St Gerry has it that on 19 June 2007 he: "Flew in to London for a series of meetings.  Helped a passenger on the flight who collapsed.  He was ill enough to require a full assessment on arrival and went off to hospital in an ambulance."

"Unfortunately shortly after arriving in London I had my wallet stolen which meant I was running late.  I did manage to get to all my meetings which ran late into the evening."

The baptism of the Wright children took place in Skipton on 14 July 2007.
Okay, thanks. I couldn't remember exactly when he experienced that series of unfortunate events...
As I recall, there weren't many articles in the MSM lauding St Gerry's healing powers or lamenting his mugging shortly after he'd performed another miracle nah 

At the time I wondered why there were no shots of the evil good doctor and his patient at the doors of the alleged ambulance and, as I recall, there was no follow up in the press whereby whoever was saved from the jaws of death came forward to publicly render thanks unto St Gerry.

The case of the stolen wallet was another event in the life of the saint which didn't warrant a Crimewatch reconstruction and the alleged return of said wallet, complete with all contents except for cash, a month or so later went largely unremarked although, presumably, it was noted by the police.
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by windchime on 23.09.13 16:59

'I think the decision to do this now had been precipitated by what has happened to us. It had concentrated everyone's minds on how fragile life is, how it can be wrecked in an instant'

fragile life is  -  sounds like we are talking about a death has occurred here

Also MBM disappeared on 03.05.07 and this baptism was on 14.07.07.  So MBM was still missing and the parents were/are still claiming by abduction and that she will still be found alive BUT this family who from what I can see have only met up with the McCanns on average 2 - 3 times a year suddenly decide that 'life is so fragile' that they have to rush out, organise a baptism for their (not baby) children within 2 months, MW had to fly to Portugal to collect Kate to bring her back to the UK for this all important baptism - all within 2 months.  That is an awful lot of organising when it would seem the Wrights were in Portugal acting as K & G right arm within 24 hours of MBMs 'abduction'! 

It really does not ring true - then again nothing this man seems to make sense!
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by tigger on 23.09.13 17:55

@windchime wrote:'I think the decision to do this now had been precipitated by what has happened to us. It had concentrated everyone's minds on how fragile life is, how it can be wrecked in an instant'

fragile life is  -  sounds like we are talking about a death has occurred here

Also MBM disappeared on 03.05.07 and this baptism was on 14.07.07.  So MBM was still missing and the parents were/are still claiming by abduction and that she will still be found alive BUT this family who from what I can see have only met up with the McCanns on average 2 - 3 times a year suddenly decide that 'life is so fragile' that they have to rush out, organise a baptism for their (not baby) children within 2 months, MW had to fly to Portugal to collect Kate to bring her back to the UK for this all important baptism - all within 2 months.  That is an awful lot of organising when it would seem the Wrights were in Portugal acting as K & G right arm within 24 hours of MBMs 'abduction'! 

It really does not ring true - then again nothing this man seems to make sense!
I've always thought that was part and parcel of soothing the consciences of those in the know before and after 3/5/07.
Just like the spot-on obligations to the departed were observed.
The third day, the 12th day, 40 days and finally 3 months.
Respectively, prayer in church, mass, family and friends memorial service and visiting the grave.
The dates work perfectly if  one takes it from the 1st of May, which I think was the fatal day.
Imo of course.

MW was of special interest to the PJ when they drew up the rogatories.

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by MissesWillYa on 23.09.13 18:01

So MW flew to Portugal to bring Kate back to the UK? I missed that bit. Interesting. I wonder if he had some sort of delivery to make in Portugal before collecting her for the return trip.
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by ryanm on 29.08.15 20:24

10/07/07 – Tuesday - Kate and Gerry go for a run and feel better physically and psychologically. Gerry goes to Faro airport presumably to pick up Fiona, Russell and Rachael.

11/07/07 – Wednesday - Fiona, Russell & Rachael are interviewed by PJ in relation to Robert Murat and his presence in PDL when Madeleine went missing. In his blog Gerry mentions his concern re the media and reporting and in particular that they can’t reveal anything specific in relation to Madeleine’s likes and dislikes as it could be used against them in an extortion attempt.

12/07/07 – Thursday - Madeleine is missing for 10 weeks. Gerry leaves on early morning flight to London to meet with UK police and to attend National police federation bravery awards. Kate indicates in her book that they were both invited to the ceremony but she had to stay in PDL to look after the twins. In his blog Gerry seems to forget that Kate was invited. In his statement Michael Wright says he travelled to PDL to accompany Kate and the twins back to UK for his children’s christening. According to her diary sometime during the day Kate washes Cuddle Cat.

13/07/07 – Friday - Gerry has meetings with CEOP. Kate, Michael Wright and the twins travel to UK for the christening. At some point while in London Gerry meets with Sir Christopher Meyer.

14/07/07 –  Saturday - Christening of the Wright children. With the help of the “authorities” in both countries the McCann’s attendance at the UK christening in Skipton was kept under wraps.
 
15/07/07 – Sunday - Gerry, Kate and the twins return to Portugal in the early morning. Gerry’s mother and sister (presumably Phil as according to witness statements Trish was already in PDL) also arrive in PDL. Danie Krugel arrives in PDL at the request of the McCanns. Throughout June & July to date there have been 30 separate communications with South Africa from Gerry’s phone. Gerry returns to Faro Airport at 9pm presumably to collect Eileen and Phil.

16/07/07 – Monday - JK Rowling’s book “Deathly Hallows” is distributed with posters of Madeleine. Press interviews. Madeleine is missing for 75 days.

 
People over the age of 7 aren’t simply baptised into the Catholic Church unless there is a life threatening emergency. They need to undergo the “RCIA” program of instruction which takes 2 years and they are welcomed to the church in an Initiation Mass where they are baptised, confirmed and receive Eucharist for the first time. This initiation mass is performed annually at Easter and gets a special mention in St Stephen’s Easter Newsletter. As a Catholic godparent to a 10 & 12 year old child the McCanns would understand that once they had passed the age of reason (7) baptism on its own would be as useless as an umbrella in a hurricane. Even if they managed to bypass the RCIA program given the McCann’s sudden contacts in high religious places the children would still need a mass, penance, communion and confirmation – so why did Kate only mention baptism and why would St Stephens make such an unprecedented exception in July? 


In her book Kate mentions she didn’t attend the Police awards ceremony rather than be apart from the twins anymore than was necessary. You’d have to wonder what fantastic appointment the twins had (apart from Cuddle Cat’s bath) that they couldn’t fly to UK on Thursday with Gerry and Kate instead of leaving with Michael and Kate on Friday. You’d also have to wonder what problem Kate had that she couldn’t manage to get on a flight herself with the twins given that she could have been dropped to the airport by Sandy and picked up at the other end by any family member who was willing. Why couldn’t Fiona, Rachael or Russell volunteer to stay an extra day or so to accompany their friend Kate home?
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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by tigger on 30.08.15 6:21

I wonder who performed the ceremony? Was it the ubiquitous, golf-loving Father Seddon?

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Re: Religion and the McCanns

Post by ryanm on 30.08.15 20:43

Yes, it would make sense if Paul Seddon did the baptisms because it would have bypassed any red tape that St Stephen's had. Michael Wright no doubt met him at Kate & Gerry's wedding and who knows, they may have had a game or two of tennis when their visits to PDL overlapped in May. As luck would have it their visits in PDL overlapped again in August. You'd have to think of it as a "road to Damascus" year for the Wrights and wonder if Fr Paul made it to Skipton for Christmas and perhaps confirmations.
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