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Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by aquila on 11.03.13 11:43

@tigger wrote:@ Ilovemyselfsomuchpelailgishi... Sorry, can't be bothered to learn these avatars by heart.

You are sure they were drunk - without having evidence of this at all.
You are also sure that any evidence provided isn't worth anything because they were drunk, although you have no actual evidence of that first principle in your argument.

But fascinating information about your own wrist-watch wearing habits. Thank you.

Tigger, I was enthralled to know that some people take their children with them when they go out. Well I never!
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by aquila on 11.03.13 11:49

Three children on a holiday. All going to various creche activities/palmed off onto other people. All activities have a time slot. All adult activities - tennis seemed to be a favourite - once again all on time slots. The only measure of time to manage these activities is either a mobile phone or a wristwatch.

Going out every evening and leaving your kids alone and telling everyone you checked every half hour needs a measure of time. Would you sit at the table hoping one of your friends had brought a mobile phone, wore a wristwatch or the restaurant had a huge clock that you looked at every five minutes?

There's a vulgar saying...don't p*ss down my back and tell me it's raining.

ETA (as usual) the McCanns liked to have their children in bed by 7.30pm.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by iluvpelageya on 11.03.13 11:59

candyfloss wrote:
@iluvpelageya wrote:
Ah yes, the sack of onions with beige trousers and buttons You are jesting I hope

You may be familiar with the following verse from a famous folk song:

And as I went home on Tuesday night as drunk as drunk could be
I saw a coat behind the door where my old coat should be
Well, I called me wife and I said to her: Will you kindly tell to me
Who owns that coat behind the door where my old coat should be?
Ah, you're drunk, you're drunk you silly old fool, still you cannot see
That's a woollen blanket that me mother sent to me
Well, it's many a day I've travelled a hundred miles or more
But buttons in a blanket sure I never saw before


@Iluvpelageya
Are you saying that they were all drunk so their statements are worthless?

@Plebgate
Are you arguing that a statement taken from someone who is drunk or high or otherwise mentally incapacitated has the same status as a statement taken from someone who is sober and sane?

No-one was drunk, the statements were taken the day after, and in days after that. The Smiths were back in Ireland when they gave their statements IIRC then flew back to PDL on 26 May to give them to the PJ. Were they still drunk???

I am not talking about whether the Smiths were drunk when they made their statements. I am talking about the states they were in on the night of the incident. They could have been drinking mineral water; they could have been drinking straight shots of Bacardi 151. If they saw a sack of onions as a child in their cups, when they turned up at the police station, they would still have seen a child. It would not have reverted to a sack of onions. Understand? The statement that they made in Ireland that they recognised GM by the way he was carrying a child is at best unsubstantial. I know people often recognise me by my gait. (I am fully fit.) But, no, the statement by the Smiths that they recognise GM by the way he is carrying his kid is not good enough to be regarded as hard evidence.

I am surprised that people are even arguing with me that alcohol did not have an effect on the happenings of the night Madeleine vanished, and the way people behaved. If you think I am talking codswallop, can you do something for me? Will you go down into your town centre at chucking-time, pick someone at random, and try and hold a coherent conversation. Do that, and you will see the problem that the Portuguese police had with the Tapas 9.

____________________

It was not yet evening. I was tired. I lay down and fell asleep.
In my dream I saw my raven-black stallion dancing uncontrollably, playing tricks beneath the saddle.
Then came an evil wind from the east, which tore the black hat off my wild head.
My yesaul was wise, and interpreted my dream for me.
"Ah," he said, "you are going to lose your wild head."

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:04

snipped from Iluvpley

" @Plebgate
Are you arguing that a statement taken from someone who is
drunk or high or otherwise mentally incapacitated has the same status as
a statement taken from someone who is sober and sane?!"

I wasn't arguing anything. I asked if you were saying they were too drunk to give reliable statements.

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by aquila on 11.03.13 12:13

@plebgate wrote:snipped from Iluvpley

" @Plebgate
Are you arguing that a statement taken from someone who is
drunk or high or otherwise mentally incapacitated has the same status as
a statement taken from someone who is sober and sane?!"

I wasn't arguing anything. I asked if you were saying they were too drunk to give reliable statements.

At this rate I think we ought to check if someone breathalyzed the PJ, Martin Grimes, the cadaver dogs (they might be under the influence) the press, the good people of PDL who were sitting in their homes and went out onto the streets to look for Madeleine...the list is endless.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 12:15

So you are also saying iluvpelageya that Jez Wilkins may have been drunk, pushing his child around PDL from 8.30 pm. I think you are clutching at straws. By the way there was no-one else walking around during the evening. They all said it was very quiet, and never saw anyone, and not just on that day. Doh!!



ilupelageya wrote:



When two men are talking about their tennis backhands or soccer or film actresses or whatever, things can get - how shall we say? - intense? They may have had their backs to her. They may have been so drunk that if JT had cartwheeled down the road, they wouldn't have noticed. As it is a holiday complex, there would be people walking about all the time, even during the evening.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:16

Drunk, high or mentally ill in charge of children (or not in charge). CHARMING defence???

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by iluvpelageya on 11.03.13 12:22

@tigger wrote:@ Ilovemyselfsomuchpelailgishi... Sorry, can't be bothered to learn these avatars by heart.

Keep the discussion on a serious level, Tigger. I have been polite throughout this wortwechsel, and I expect the same from you.

You are sure they were drunk - without having evidence of this at all.
You are also sure that any evidence provided isn't worth anything because they were drunk, although you have no actual evidence of that first principle in your argument.

I have already said to you that if you want to make sense of the sayings and happenings of the night Madeleine vanished, go right ahead. I shan't stop you. But do have respect for others who will only give these a cursory glance, and look at more reliable evidence instead.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but what you are implying is that because these people are physicians and pillars of UK society, they can go to a bistro, consume several glasses of wine, and come out as sober as they went in. All I can do is refer you to a statement once made by Alexei Sayle:

"You go to a wine bar in Hampstead, and a chartered accountant heaves up all over you."

But fascinating information about your own wrist-watch wearing habits. Thank you.

I am delighted you found my habits of accessories edifying.

____________________

It was not yet evening. I was tired. I lay down and fell asleep.
In my dream I saw my raven-black stallion dancing uncontrollably, playing tricks beneath the saddle.
Then came an evil wind from the east, which tore the black hat off my wild head.
My yesaul was wise, and interpreted my dream for me.
"Ah," he said, "you are going to lose your wild head."

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:28

As was posted earlier - if they had been that drunk or high the police would have noted it.

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 12:31

It's obviously up to you what you want to believe. If you think the Smiths were so drunk with their children with them, and saw a man carrying a bag of onions then so be it If you want to believe JW was so drunk at 8.30 pm pushing his child around and wouldn't notice JT if she was doing cartwheels past him, so be it.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:34

no it wasn't a bag of onions being carried it was a very large jar of pickled (hic) eggs. ha ha ha

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by iluvpelageya on 11.03.13 12:34

@plebgate wrote:Drunk, high or mentally ill in charge of children (or not in charge). CHARMING defence???

Defence? I think there is something you have misunderstood, Plebgate.

You're lucky, Plebgate. I am in a good mood. So I'll explain it to you.

1. Let us get this straight. I am not an apologist for the McCanns. I don't like them. I don't like what they have done to the people of Portomao, affecting the business of that hotel, and getting people being made redundant from their jobs. I don't like the way their publicity is having people all over the world inconvenienced and even arrested just because some little girl has blonde hair. And I have no time for people who go out boozing while they leave their kids at home unsupervised, whatever caste they think they are.

2. If you go back and read the original posting, you will see that I said that I do not give much credence to witness statements even when the witness statements are sober.

Do you understand now, Plebgate?

____________________

It was not yet evening. I was tired. I lay down and fell asleep.
In my dream I saw my raven-black stallion dancing uncontrollably, playing tricks beneath the saddle.
Then came an evil wind from the east, which tore the black hat off my wild head.
My yesaul was wise, and interpreted my dream for me.
"Ah," he said, "you are going to lose your wild head."

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:36

the name of the owner of the cafe shop called Templars -possibly Simon - didn't he always get the baddie in the end?

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:38

I do not like the tone of your post to me Iluv

I don't care who you like do not I do not understand nor do I care to understand your post, nor do I care whether you are in a good mood or not.
Defence - try thinking of a court defence, wouldn't look good would it.

Now get lost.

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by aquila on 11.03.13 12:39

Please forgive me, I feel another 'bugger orf' coming on. Somebody stop me from saying it.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by tiny on 11.03.13 12:42

@aquila wrote:Please forgive me, I feel another 'bugger orf' coming on. Somebody stop me from saying it.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by iluvpelageya on 11.03.13 12:43

candyfloss wrote:It's obviously up to you what you want to believe. If you think the Smiths were so drunk with their children with them, and saw a man carrying a bag of onions then so be it If you want to believe JW was so drunk at 8.30 pm pushing his child around and wouldn't notice JT if she was doing cartwheels past him, so be it.

Candyfloss, you need to get out more. People really do take their kids with them drinking. About thirty years ago, there was this character who was a teamster on one of the landaus in Blackpool, who used to take his kids round the club evenings. They probably stayed outside. I didn't see that. What I did see was him falling in the gutter on his way home, and his kids dragging him up. According to my neighbours, this happened often.

The bag of onions is only an example and should not be taken as something that actually happened.

____________________

It was not yet evening. I was tired. I lay down and fell asleep.
In my dream I saw my raven-black stallion dancing uncontrollably, playing tricks beneath the saddle.
Then came an evil wind from the east, which tore the black hat off my wild head.
My yesaul was wise, and interpreted my dream for me.
"Ah," he said, "you are going to lose your wild head."

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by tigger on 11.03.13 12:50

@iluvmybegonia wrote:
I am surprised that people are even arguing with me that alcohol did not have an effect on the happenings of the night Madeleine vanished, and the way people behaved. If you think I am talking codswallop, can you do something for me? Will you go down into your town centre at chucking-time, pick someone at random, and try and hold a coherent conversation. Do that, and you will see the problem that the Portuguese police had with the Tapas 9. unquote

Six years on it's a bit of a desperate throw to blame it all on the demon drink. Comparing the drink culture of the UK's town centre with those of Portugal is not realistic. Your town centre may well be the way you described.
As to the second part I've outlined in bold, I'm trying really, really hard. But you know, it might end in an argument and you don't like that (see first bolded line). So it seems that you only want people to agree with you.
Now what about that wristwatch you wear from time to time? - and how's the weather doing? Quite cold here, I hope you'll agree.

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Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 12:52

@iluvpelageya wrote:
candyfloss wrote:It's obviously up to you what you want to believe. If you think the Smiths were so drunk with their children with them, and saw a man carrying a bag of onions then so be it If you want to believe JW was so drunk at 8.30 pm pushing his child around and wouldn't notice JT if she was doing cartwheels past him, so be it.

Candyfloss, you need to get out more. People really do take their kids with them drinking. About thirty years ago, there was this character who was a teamster on one of the landaus in Blackpool, who used to take his kids round the club evenings. They probably stayed outside. I didn't see that. What I did see was him falling in the gutter on his way home, and his kids dragging him up. According to my neighbours, this happened often.

The bag of onions is only an example and should not be taken as something that actually happened.



What with drunks around every corner, perhaps not. I may according to you come into contact with a drunk pushing a child in a buggy around Now, leave this as it is getting beyond boring.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by plebgate on 11.03.13 12:52

Only wants people to agree and if they don't turn nasty. hmmm sounds familiar. Enough said on this thread for me.

____________________
Judge Judy to shifty  witnesses   -    LOOK AT ME  -   Um is not an answer.

If I forget to add it to a post everything is In My Opinion and I don't know anything for sure.
:roll:

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 13:15

In case anyone wants to know who is Pelageya - the one whom our poster luvs - you need wonder no more!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelageya_(singer)

Aquila - button that beak of yours!
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by russiandoll on 11.03.13 14:18

only post from me to iluvp.....because I won't take seriously a person stating that they dismiss conspiracy theories based on speculation [ so do I btw] , preferring concrete evidence [ so do I btw].......

you cannot state that you base your theories on concrete evidence and then begin speculating about how drunk or sober a person is, and about whether or not a person wore a wristwatch.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy

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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 16:54

Does anyone know how old Aiofe Smith [one of the witnesses] was in 2007? It's important if we're arguing about witnesses "under the influence", as she's the one who described the very special pants the carrier was wearing. Beige with buttons on the side, which happened to be the same we later saw GM with in his "the wider agenda" performance ...
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 17:38

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

She was 12; both she and her father Martin described the clothing of the man they saw.
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Re: Why I Doubt the Abduction Theory

Post by Guest on 11.03.13 17:44

Jean wrote:http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

She was 12; both she and her father Martin described the clothing of the man they saw.
***
Thank you, Jean! So can we conclude that a witness giving a most detailed description of the carrier in her first statement was NOT drunk?

BTW OT here, but still McC case. I've been trawling the net again to find the famous GAP top of the last photo. I have meanwhile stumbled upon GAP archive pictures going back to 2006, BUT I still haven't been able to identify this particular piece of clothing [which is NOT smock BTW ...].
http://kidsfashionpassion.com/
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