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Opinions please

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Truthmustout on 04.03.13 18:27

Châtelaine wrote:With due respect, this is not completely coherent.
But am I right in thinking that you're trying to say:
- there was cadaver scent everywhere the dogs, notably the EVRD Eddie, alerted
- there is no proof that it was Madeleine's death scent
- it might have been some other person's
- but there was a dead body in Apartment 5A
- behind the sofa
- in the master bedroom
- maybe/possibly in the flowerbed below the balcony
- such scent was subsequently transferred to
* Kate's clothes
* Cuddle Cat
* a child's T-shirt
* the rented car
* the carkey
- and Madeleine is missing, but that has nothing to do with it, maybe ... ?

It has been established by the PJ that previous to the McCanns stay in PdL nobody died, lay dead in Apt. 5A
So the only explanation, if that's what you're trying to say is:
- that someone else died in Apt 5A and was removed
- and Madeleine [alive?] was removed too

I look forward to your answer.

Put things into perspective doesn't it ! Good post !

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Re: Opinions please

Post by saltnpepper on 04.03.13 18:28

I except the dogs completely and believe they alerted to a sense of a
dead body, but it cannot prove definitely without a doubt that it was
MM. Only that a body or bodies were on those items. Obviously With MM
being the one missing it is very reasonable that it was indeed her scent
but it is not definite. Some other crime to some other person MAY have
been committed. It is within the realms of possibility. It also shows
that if indeed it was MM or another person,the scent could have been put
there by any person ie anyone that had been in the car, in the
apartment , touched the keys etc etc. Of course the obvious persons are
one or both the MC's but this is surely why there is not enough evidence
for a charge. That and the lack of body to completely conclude death.

Yes anything is possoble but lets go through probables

5A...someone else could of been murdered in 5A,the police checked if anyone had died with no evidence this having of happened but if there was a murder in 5A you would not expect there to be no call to the pj to admit it-I could exscuse 5A if that was the only alert

The Scenic & car key...all previous hirers of the vehicle were questioned,there is a missing gap in the files available which coincides with the mccanns holiday & upto them hiring the vehicle but i could go with the above scenario-I could exscuse the car & key if that was the only alert

Cuddlecat...struggle to find a reason for the scent of a dead body being marked on Maddie's toy...did Kate take it to confirm patients who have died?would be a strange companion but...-I could exscuse cuddlecat if that was the only alert

Kate's check trousers & other item of Kate's clothing...Doctors are generally smartly dressed so it's not unthinkable to wear pants for work & pleasure did she wear these to confirm patient death-I could exscuse Kate's clothes if that was the only alert

The childs t-shirt...now im really really struggling...cannot think of one reason on this item so cannot find an exscuse

So each on there own,you could go with the benefit of the doubt but when you put them all together with the person missing being reported by the suspects & realise how unlucky you would have to be,if innocent is...name your odds?I could then add selective deleted phonecalls & texts into the equation but i wont

The legal side of why no trial i will pass on thanks

Justice for Madeleine Beth McCann is what we all want & at the end of every day...we are a day nearer
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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 20:28

Perfect answers from the above posts and you have both made points brilliantly.
Therefore cleared my mind of those nagging doubts. I now accept there will be no happy ending for Madeleine and as sad as that is we can hope she gets justice.

So now I need to focus on Madeleine dying in apartment 5A and at the hands or negligence of her parents. The McCann files state that the death scent was lighter in the flower bed. Does that mean where she most likely died or least likely?

Does everyone share the view that sedation and awaking in the night followed by an accident as with GA's view or something more sinister? Would it have been more likely on the night the neighbour heard crying? Maybe the poor child fell then. How awful and disgraceful to cry for so long without comfort but despicably wicked if the child was dying.
Might be worth me re reading those phone record times for that night.

Still doesn't explain their lack of emotion but I suppose they could just have switched off.

I wish I could find the link that had KM being interviewed, going over that night, saying she checked here there and everywhere then slipping up and saying "It's then I found her" or words to that extent.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 20:41

@averageperson wrote:Perfect answers from the above posts and you have both made points brilliantly.
Therefore cleared my mind of those nagging doubts. I now accept there will be no happy ending for Madeleine and as sad as that is we can hope she gets justice.

So now I need to focus on Madeleine dying in apartment 5A and at the hands or negligence of her parents. [...].

I wish I could find the link that had KM being interviewed, going over that night, saying she checked here there and everywhere then slipping up and saying "It's then I found her" or words to that extent.
***
No one, at least not I, would [have] said that she died at the hands of her parents. There's no proof of that, though there are circumstances, which would suggest that as a possibility.


It was GM, who said in a tv interview [which I cannot locate immediately now], that there was [non verbatim] nothing as bad as "the night we found her".
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Re: Opinions please

Post by Mrs Beeton on 04.03.13 20:42

Châtelaine wrote:
@averageperson wrote:Perfect answers from the above posts and you have both made points brilliantly.
Therefore cleared my mind of those nagging doubts. I now accept there will be no happy ending for Madeleine and as sad as that is we can hope she gets justice.

So now I need to focus on Madeleine dying in apartment 5A and at the hands or negligence of her parents. [...].

I wish I could find the link that had KM being interviewed, going over that night, saying she checked here there and everywhere then slipping up and saying "It's then I found her" or words to that extent.
***
No one, at least not I, would [have] said that she died at the hands of her parents. There's no proof of that, though there are circumstances, which would suggest that as a possibility.


It was GM, who said in a tv interview [which I cannot locate immediately now], that there was [non verbatim] nothing as bad as "the night they found her".



This is the link : http://www.mccannfiles.com/id322.html

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 20:45

Thank you.

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Dr Martin Roberts

Post by saltnpepper on 04.03.13 21:00



[color:9e41=000000]
EXCLUSIVE to mccannfiles.com

By Dr Martin Roberts
[size=7]28 July 2011


SO NOW WE
KNOW


They
haven't got a clue down under - literally. The reporter fronting the
recent
Seven on Sunday
programme announces an exclusive interview with Kate and Gerry McCann
thus:

"Kate and Gerry
McCann have lived a
never-ending ordeal and they still don't know when, or if, it will ever
end. It began on a family
holiday in Portugal when
Madeleine, their four-year-old daughter, simply vanished. She hasn't
been seen since. Tonight
the mystery deepens. You
are about to see home video never shown before and learn the vital clue
Madeleine left behind."

Unfortunately for the expectant viewers,
they never get to learn what that vital clue is. Personally, I don't
think it's Natasha
Kampusch's psychological recovery from trauma. There are however other
clues which, thankfully,
did not drift onto the
cutting room floor.

(Voice over): "On Thursday night, Kate put her daughter to bed
for the last time."

KM:
"My memory of that evening is really vivid. I mean she was really
tired, but
she was just cuddled up
on my knee. We read a story, mmm...had some treats, some milk and
biscuits, errm... and then after
they'd done the usual
'toilet-teeth', errm... we went through to the bedroom and read another
story 'If You're
Happy And You Know It',
errm... (long pause)...yep..." (silence).

And there it ends. No
description whatsoever
of actually putting the
children to bed, despite Kate's 'vivid recall' of that evening. The
account simply stops
dead without a
conclusion. This is a classic example of an unbalanced story, and one
that's easily viewed with suspicion.
Put very simply, if a
story does not have a conclusion then there isn't one.

Kate next
tells us that when the
curtains blew up, they
revealed that the shutter was 'all the way up' and the window had been
'pushed right across.'
One of several
highlights from the Channel 4 documentary (Madeleine Was Here) to be
spliced into the proceedings, viewers
are treated anew to the
episode of the door being 'open much further than we'd left it.' Strange
how Matthew Oldfield
didn't notice the cold
air inside apartment 5A, the various doors and windows having been open
for twenty minutes by the
time he is said to have
peered into the children's bedroom from the lounge. Even stranger that
Kate didn't notice
the drop in temperature a
further half-hour after that. (It was cold enough for Jane Tanner to
have borrowed a fleece before
setting off up the magic
path of invisibility).

But the best is yet to come.

"Did you kill your
daughter?" asks the lady journalist. Gerry answers:

"No.
That's an emphatic 'no.' I mean
the ludicrous thing is.
Errm... what... I suppose... what's been purported from Portugal is that
Madeleine died in the
apartment by an accident
and we hid her body. Well, when did she have the accident and died?
Cos... the only time she was
left unattended was when
we were at dinner, so if she died then, how could we have disposed
of... hidden her body when there
was an immediate search.
It's just nonsense. So. An' if she died when we were in the apartment
or fell injured, why
would we... why would we
cover that up?"

KM (interjecting): "And it gets even more
ludicrous, that we've
obviously hidden her so
incredibly well, where nobody's found her and we hid her (interviewer:
'incredibly well')
so well that we then
decided that we'd move her in the car which we hired weeks later and you
know it's just ridiculous."

Let's take this a step at a time.

"Did you kill your daughter?"

"No. That's
an emphatic 'no.'"

This
is Gerry speaking don't forget. For any other innocent mortal
'Absolutely
not' would have been a
sufficient response. Not for Gerry though. Despite his subsequent claim,
he gives a decidedly unemphatic
answer - 'No.' What
follows is meta-language, where he is describing his earlier
articulation of a word and does not
address the underlying
semantics in any way. Incoherent and unnecessary expansion then takes us
away from the original question,
referencing what has
been 'purported' in Portugal, namely that 'Madeleine died in the
apartment by an accident
and we hid her body.'

Next
comes a cunning locking of the incident to a specific time frame, with
the suggestion
that Madeleine could
only have had an accident when unattended. But Gerry slips up in
questioning how it would have been possible
for them to have disposed of Madeleine's body. In immediately substituting the phrase hidden her body
he has already told us
what in fact happened. Excitedly he goes on to ask why the parents
should have covered up an accident.
Why indeed.

It
hardly comes as a surprise that Kate leaps in at this point, before
Gerry's mouth can write
any more bad cheques.
She loses no time in elaborating upon the 'hide-and-seek' scenario
played out that Thursday
night, and the
'ludicrous' idea of their hire car being involved afterwards. But the
damage has already been done.

The script, charitably outlined by
Goncalo Amaral and fleshed out here by the McCanns, so as to exonerate
themselves,
depends entirely for its
effect upon the premise that little Madeleine disappeared inexplicably
that Thursday night; a premise
that becomes less clear
the closer it is examined. And Gerry is right. It wouldn't make sense to
conceal an accident.
[/size]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id356.html

well worth checking the above link to the fantastic Dr Martin [size=9]Roberts


[/size]
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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 21:06

[quote="amandaw"]Well we are all different, but I know my feeling of shock and of being petrified would not have allowed me to go out running for a very long, long time. I also know that I would not have been able to smile for a very long time if my child had disappeared, possibly in the hands of paedophiles. Yes we are all very different aren't we.




We certainly are Plebgate. Of that I have no doubt. However, please note I was merely referring to KM's need to stay in the apartment rather than go out that night searching. With regard to the later behaviour, this is what caused my doubt. I have no connection with it at all. I would never have been able to laugh, smile, wear makeup, go out, leave my further children alone, put jewellery on, and appear so flippant. I can understand the jogging as it clear the mind and sends much needed endorphins, although again I would have been unable. And so far, I have no belief in the photo shopping theories as I find them absolutely ridiculous. But yes, its the later behaviour after the first night. And of course the fund. Mighty strange.

Clear the mind and sends much needed endorphins. Oh yes I am certainly different.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 21:13

Snipped from averageperson post:

Perfect answers from the above posts and you have both made points brilliantly.
Therefore
cleared my mind of those nagging doubts. I now accept there will be no
happy ending for Madeleine and as sad as that is we can hope she gets
justice.



Don't know why but those sentences above remind me of TB being able to influence people re. the search for Maddie?

Probably completely wrong but that was my first thought when I read those sentences.

l, like most on this forum i imagine have noreal theories about what happened to Maddie, the police did and it is in the files. Why not read them thoroughly and then come and tell us what your own theory is?

Edited to put correct name of poster i used quote from.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 21:16

I do apologise to Amandaw, it was averageperson's post the snipped quote was from.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Mrs Beeton on 04.03.13 21:39

@plebgate wrote:Snipped from averageperson post:

Perfect answers from the above posts and you have both made points brilliantly.
Therefore
cleared my mind of those nagging doubts. I now accept there will be no
happy ending for Madeleine and as sad as that is we can hope she gets
justice.



Don't know why but those sentences above remind me of TB being able to influence people re. the search for Maddie?

Probably completely wrong but that was my first thought when I read those sentences.

l, like most on this forum i imagine have noreal theories about what happened to Maddie, the police did and it is in the files. Why not read them thoroughly and then come and tell us what your own theory is?



Do you suspect Plebgate that a paid troll might come on here and lure people into helping him / her in order to manufacture 'evidence' that posters have influenced them to 'give up the search' ?

Edited to put correct name of poster i used quote from.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 21:50

Not sure Mrs. Beeton what to think but always pays to be cautious and I really do hope that Tony is still sitting on his hands.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 22:03

If you are suggesting I am a paid troll, or a troll of any sort then quite frankly you have a very untrusting nature.
I am merely a bloody housewife with a fascination for this case. Ridiculous accusation.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 22:06

If that post is directed at me averageperson then please read mine again. I have not accused anybody of anything. I merely posted my immediate thoughts and then added I am probably wrong. I also answered Mrs. Beeton that I am not sure what to think.

As for being a "bloody housewife" well plenty of housewives work from home - not of course that I am saying that you do.
Cheers.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 22:09

Please no more arguments. The mods and admin are here to decide who is who, if anyone has problems then take it to pm with admin or mods, and let's keep this forum free from all this. Thank you for your co-operation.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 22:09

And BTW how are you helping with the truth for MM if you are going to scrutinise every new member in this way, merely for trying to broaden their knowledge. What next. I suppose I will be,one of the MC's !
I am disgusted! Would you like me to PM you my personal details for you to check over. Admin have my real name within my email address. A quick FB search shall bring me up very easily. You will see a pic of my baby as a profile nod my timeline is of my soldier son and his brother.

I hope your suspicious minds do not deter others for joining this site and trying to find out what happened to little MM.


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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 22:11

Please read my post above.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 22:12

Last post on subject as requested by Candyfloss. I try and scrutinise every post before answering not just new members. I am a new member here myself. Bye bye.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 04.03.13 23:55

Plebgate you are picking on me with your scrutinising! No matter. I would like to know though, why you find my remark on having some understanding/empathy with the jogging business odd. I have recently come out of an awful episode with one of my children which involved the most immense, immense anxiety. All is much better now thankfully but I was thinking recently about how I now feel I have more ability to understand or not understand behaviour by those who may be bereaved or going through similar strain. This is what led me to post that I could understand the lack of search that first night. And that I could understand the jogging. The rest, as I have pointed out, I find difficult to understand. Personally, having gone through a terrible episode in my life that involved my child, I was unable to exercise. However, this was put to me by many loving friends and doctors as something that may help. I couldn't sing, which I had been doing and again, was advised to continue. Singing, as exercise, releases endorphins which naturally make you less stressed and more able to cope. And it is imperative to keep as busy as possible to prevent madness from sorrow taking over. For that reason, I perfectly accept that they jogged and did not search during the first night. Why do you doubt my posts so? Almost everything I have posted has been doubted and picked upon. It's odd and disconcerting.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Angelique on 04.03.13 23:59

saltandpepper

It's always good to watch these videos and read Dr Roberts so thank you for posting this one.

Something which has always puzzled me in the transcript and hearing Kate say this:

"
KM: "My memory of that evening is really vivid. I mean she was really tired, but she was just cuddled up on my knee. We read a story, mmm...had some treats, some milk and biscuits, errm... and then after they'd done the usual 'toilet-teeth', errm... we went through to the bedroom and read another story 'If You're Happy And You Know It', errm... (long pause)...yep..." (silence)."

I may be wrong and there may well be a "story" If you're happy and you know it" but as far as I know it's a child's song that is often chanted in nursery school including clapping your hands. In fact there is a video of Madeleine doing exactly this whilst running around the family hall in Rothley. Surely this type of "song/story" would not be conducive of sleep?

So why would Kate say it was part of the routine of putting the childre to bed.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by saltnpepper on 05.03.13 0:02

candyfloss wrote:Please no more arguments. The mods and admin are here to decide who is who, if anyone has problems then take it to pm with admin or mods, and let's keep this forum free from all this. Thank you for your co-operation.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 05.03.13 0:05

Oh, this is a gorgeous book which would be lovely to read with your children before they go to bed!
This just adds to the sadness of this tragic case. Poor, poor little girl.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by saltnpepper on 05.03.13 0:13

Quick google & many books,i also thought it was a song only
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Re: Opinions please

Post by Nina on 05.03.13 0:16

Amandaw I am sorry that you have had such personal stress recently in your life and I hope that you are now finding ways to deal with your sorrow and pain, sincerely roses

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 05.03.13 0:27

Thank you Nina. I am absolutely ok. I really only wanted to emphasise my sentiments. It is a shame that I felt the need to include my own experiences as justification and I will not be doing so again. But there we are, we all have times of weakness. Thank you.

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