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Opinions please

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Re: Opinions please

Post by jd on 04.03.13 1:56

averageperson wrote:I found that statement by the Gaspars last week.
What did you think and feel?

Also remember this statement was held back by LPP for 6 months and not given to the PJ until the mccanns were back in the UK and Amaral was taken off the case by gordon brown

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Inspectorfrost on 04.03.13 1:58

Kate mcann told fhe pj she attended dead bodies, see maddiecasefiles.com, reference, estrela da madeleine

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Re: Opinions please

Post by jd on 04.03.13 1:58

Miraflores wrote:
However what I don't get is why the MC's and everyone else, ruled out
that someone else may have killed her in that apartment then. Why all
the bollox about being around 6 dead bodies. Blah Blah.

Comments like Kate McCann being with six dead bodies the week beforehand are one of the reasons why I think the McCann's story doesn't add up. The normal reaction of anyone with a missing loved one who was told about a scent of death in a place where they had been would be words to the effect: 'Please God, no', or, 'Until her body is found we will continue to hope'. But the McCanns didn't say this - as you said, we got the bollox, courtesy of Auntie Phil I think, about the dead bodies. Which would be a fact which is easily checkable if the UK authorities were minded to do so.

And kate mccann says she also took cuddlecat to work with her to be in touch with these 6 bodies! And then decided to only wash cuddlecat in PDL after Maddie had disappeared!

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 04.03.13 2:07

So far, from reading huge amounts of information, I do agree with a lot. However, there's one bit I don't go with: the searching. If I was a parent and imagined my child had wandered off or been taken I must say that I would stay in the apartment just like KM did. I would be in shock and petrified of what I may find out on the roads or the beach. I would also want to remain in the flat in case my child returned. I think I would be simply frozen with fear and unable to move to go physically search. KM's behaviour is very odd, but not in this instance.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by jd on 04.03.13 2:20

amandaw wrote:So far, from reading huge amounts of information, I do agree with a lot. However, there's one bit I don't go with: the searching. If I was a parent and imagined my child had wandered off or been taken I must say that I would stay in the apartment just like KM did. I would be in shock and petrified of what I may find out on the roads or the beach. I would also want to remain in the flat in case my child returned. I think I would be simply frozen with fear and unable to move to go physically search. KM's behaviour is very odd, but not in this instance.

I ask the question....Would you leave the apartment to go to the Tapas Bar leaving your 2 other children on their own and exposed to an abductor?

If it was "like dining in your garden" wouldn't you be this close to scream out from the apartment if it was this close? And also knowing your friend (jane tanner) was in the next but one apartment also

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 5:44

Why did KM go on holiday taking the same clothes she'd worn when attending the six deaths, why weren't they washed before the holiday or take different clothes. As a Doctor, KM would know how the scent of death can linger for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, why at the start of the holiday why did GM say "He wasn't there to enjoy himself" if not what was he there for?
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Re: Opinions please

Post by aquila on 04.03.13 6:49

Cherry Blossom wrote:Why did KM go on holiday taking the same clothes she'd worn when attending the six deaths, why weren't they washed before the holiday or take different clothes. As a Doctor, KM would know how the scent of death can linger for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, why at the start of the holiday why did GM say "He wasn't there to enjoy himself" if not what was he there for?

I find it strange that the video was released containing this remark - remember he used an expletive in front of all the kids too. Even if it were a sarcastic remark to his friend taking the video I just find it strange that the video was released.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 7:02

jd wrote:
averageperson wrote:I found that statement by the Gaspars last week.
What did you think and feel?

Also remember this statement was held back by LPP for 6 months and not given to the PJ until the mccanns were back in the UK and Amaral was taken off the case by gordon brown

Thanks for all your answers.
the statement made me feel sick TBH & very disturbed. I read somewhere (again not sure hoŵ true) that it was discounted on account of her partner not really taking it the same way. Also that she still allowed DP to help bath the kids inc her daughter but asked that her husband "Keep an eye on him".
There was also something about her having some degree of grievance with MC's after DP and his wife became close. like I say, I have no idea how accurate that info was.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 7:11

aquila wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Why did KM go on holiday taking the same clothes she'd worn when attending the six deaths, why weren't they washed before the holiday or take different clothes. As a Doctor, KM would know how the scent of death can linger for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, why at the start of the holiday why did GM say "He wasn't there to enjoy himself" if not what was he there for?

I find it strange that the video was released containing this remark - remember he used an expletive in front of all the kids too. Even if it were a sarcastic remark to his friend taking the video I just find it strange that the video was released.

For me he meant that it was a holiday for the kids & too share the care of them. They referred to it as bathing the kids. To men like GM a holiday is really a wife and kids less one. However then I found out they barely had the children for more than 2 hours a day, what with crèche and them leaving them all alone at night. In a dark room. In a foreign place.
How very scared they must have been when they awake to no one there.

I found this piece revealing.
KM said she went back to check on the kids and wasn't even going to go in the room as it was really dark in there. She only checked when a gust of wind caught the door.

I find this appalling. First to knowingly leave them in a new place in a dark room & what is the point in going back to check on the kids, if you don't actually check on the kids.
My youngest is around her twins age at the time. She sleeps upstairs where we have baby monitors and still we go up, creep into the room & look at her in order to check all is well.

I Absolutely do not believe how often they checked the kids.

In ref to the clothes of KM, I am sure I read that the scent stays even after washing so she may have washed her clothes and took them on holiday.
Wasn't cuddle cat washed 70 days after MM disappeared?


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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 7:19

jd wrote:
amandaw wrote:So far, from reading huge amounts of information, I do agree with a lot. However, there's one bit I don't go with: the searching. If I was a parent and imagined my child had wandered off or been taken I must say that I would stay in the apartment just like KM did. I would be in shock and petrified of what I may find out on the roads or the beach. I would also want to remain in the flat in case my child returned. I think I would be simply frozen with fear and unable to move to go physically search. KM's behaviour is very odd, but not in this instance.

I ask the question....Would you leave the apartment to go to the Tapas Bar leaving your 2 other children on their own and exposed to an abductor?

If it was "like dining in your garden" wouldn't you be this close to scream out from the apartment if it was this close? And also knowing your friend (jane tanner) was in the next but one apartment also

I don't know if I find the fact they KM did not search or not damning. I know I would want to be doing something but I can't be sure.
However I would not risk leaving my twins alone to go the long way round to the tapas bar to raise the alarm.
I also read that GA said she was constantly putting her fingers under the noses of the twins and that they never once awoke through all the commotion. Now that is a signs of sedation if nothing is.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 7:22

amandaw wrote:Im new here too and Im not sure. Im a bit nervous of it. But we should be allowed or whats the point in joining. Im busy reading through all the threads so Ill probably put my tuppence in at some point soon. Some good points are being made and other points aren't so great. What do you think. Anyway, its kind of late so Ill come on another time. Take care.

Hi hon. I look forward to hearing more from you. big grin

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 8:07

Thanks aquila, forgot about the expletive, and using it in front of young children seems to me he has a foul mouth and temper to go wth it, I can only imagin the childrens reaction to this outburst of anger, I too find it strange it was released.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by aquila on 04.03.13 8:22

Cherry Blossom wrote:Thanks aquila, forgot about the expletive, and using it in front of young children seems to me he has a foul mouth and temper to go wth it, I can only imagin the childrens reaction to this outburst of anger, I too find it strange it was released.

I didn't see it as an outburst of anger. I don't think the kids would have noticed the language either if it were normal language to them. I merely wonder why this video was released. It really does cut across the PR grain of showing a loving middle class family on holiday don't you think?
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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 9:10

aquila wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Thanks aquila, forgot about the expletive, and using it in front of young children seems to me he has a foul mouth and temper to go wth it, I can only imagin the childrens reaction to this outburst of anger, I too find it strange it was released.

I didn't see it as an outburst of anger. I don't think the kids would have noticed the language either if it were normal language to them. I merely wonder why this video was released. It really does cut across the PR grain of showing a loving middle class family on holiday don't you think?

IIRC it was released by TM themselves
supposedly taken by David Payne with the camera on his phone

Why was it released?
'maybe to confirm that they all went on that trip, to confirm Madeleine was there' ....

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Re: Opinions please

Post by tigger on 04.03.13 9:20

parapono wrote:
aquila wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:Thanks aquila, forgot about the expletive, and using it in front of young children seems to me he has a foul mouth and temper to go wth it, I can only imagin the childrens reaction to this outburst of anger, I too find it strange it was released.

I didn't see it as an outburst of anger. I don't think the kids would have noticed the language either if it were normal language to them. I merely wonder why this video was released. It really does cut across the PR grain of showing a loving middle class family on holiday don't you think?

IIRC it was released by TM themselves
supposedly taken by David Payne with the camera on his phone

Why was it released?
'maybe to confirm that they all went on that trip, to confirm Madeleine was there' ....

parapono
27th May Gerry's Blog:
There have been some requests for more information ‘about Madeleine’ and this section will be updated very soon. We will also be releasing a very short video of Madeleine taken at the Airport on the day we left for Portugal, Saturday 28 April.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Truthmustout on 04.03.13 10:20

MJC wrote:As a newbie here I hope it is all right to ask some questions myself?

Although I have my doubts about what really happened, when I discuss this with my friends and venture to suggest I am doubtful about the McCanns story, they say, well they must be telling the truth, how could they keep up the pretence year after year, interview after interview and so on,

Can anyone explain this please, how could they keep a lie going for 5, 6 years?

Thats what liars do. When you first start a lie then you cant go back. Also some people enjoy the money and fame , narcisstic personality. Their interview clearly show them of as the liars they are , I dont think they ever tought the police files would be avalable for all to see. or that ppl would even think they where lying.

They are not the first couple to do so. There are plenty of those liars seeking attention doing interview after interview.. Just google or look at youtube for many more examples.

Believing they are truthful just because they cant keep up the pretence is ignorace to all the facts in the case..

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Re: Opinions please

Post by plebgate on 04.03.13 10:24

amandaw wrote:So far, from reading huge amounts of information, I do agree with a lot. However, there's one bit I don't go with: the searching. If I was a parent and imagined my child had wandered off or been taken I must say that I would stay in the apartment just like KM did. I would be in shock and petrified of what I may find out on the roads or the beach. I would also want to remain in the flat in case my child returned. I think I would be simply frozen with fear and unable to move to go physically search. KM's behaviour is very odd, but not in this instance.

Well we are all different, but I know my feeling of shock and of being petrified would not have allowed me to go out running for a very long, long time. I also know that I would not have been able to smile for a very long time if my child had disappeared, possibly in the hands of paedophiles. Yes we are all very different aren't we.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 11:11

Try as hard as I can, I still can not get to grips with why people would cover for TM. Especially when a child is involved. They are all parents and they all had to admit to leaving their children alone. I just can't even in my wildest dreams, think of one single motive for it. I would never do it. I don't care what they had on me. There must be a bigger picture here. There must be something so horrendous andwith such fear of loosing their own children, to aid in a cover up, involving moving a tiny child's body, covering up for the reason of her death, allowing TM to make shit loads of money from it.
1. It has to simply be too horrendous for words and the lives of everyone would have been damaged forever.
2. The entire scenario never ever happened and never existed in the first place.
3. The abduction story is true and the lies are to cover up something else.
4. The child's whereabouts are known and that she is happy, healthy and fine.

Please feel free to add more points, because knowledge is everything.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by amandaw on 04.03.13 11:21

Well we are all different, but I know my feeling of shock and of being petrified would not have allowed me to go out running for a very long, long time. I also know that I would not have been able to smile for a very long time if my child had disappeared, possibly in the hands of paedophiles. Yes we are all very different aren't we.
[quote]



We certainly are Plebgate. Of that I have no doubt. However, please note I was merely referring to KM's need to stay in the apartment rather than go out that night searching. With regard to the later behaviour, this is what caused my doubt. I have no connection with it at all. I would never have been able to laugh, smile, wear makeup, go out, leave my further children alone, put jewellery on, and appear so flippant. I can understand the jogging as it clear the mind and sends much needed endorphins, although again I would have been unable. And so far, I have no belief in the photo shopping theories as I find them absolutely ridiculous. But yes, its the later behaviour after the first night. And of course the fund. Mighty strange.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by bobbin on 04.03.13 11:26

[quote="amandaw"]Well we are all different, but I know my feeling of shock and of being petrified would not have allowed me to go out running for a very long, long time. I also know that I would not have been able to smile for a very long time if my child had disappeared, possibly in the hands of paedophiles. Yes we are all very different aren't we.




We certainly are Plebgate. Of that I have no doubt. However, please note I was merely referring to KM's need to stay in the apartment rather than go out that night searching. With regard to the later behaviour, this is what caused my doubt. I have no connection with it at all. I would never have been able to laugh, smile, wear makeup, go out, leave my further children alone, put jewellery on, and appear so flippant. I can understand the jogging as it clear the mind and sends much needed endorphins, although again I would have been unable. And so far, I have no belief in the photo shopping theories as I find them absolutely ridiculous. But yes, its the later behaviour after the first night. And of course the fund. Mighty strange.
Why so? Why are people's observations and analysis ridiculous? Have you studied the photos enough and not found any inconsistencies?

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Re: Opinions please

Post by tiny on 04.03.13 11:26

MJC wrote:As a newbie here I hope it is all right to ask some questions myself?

Although I have my doubts about what really happened, when I discuss this with my friends and venture to suggest I am doubtful about the McCanns story, they say, well they must be telling the truth, how could they keep up the pretence year after year, interview after interview and so on,

Can anyone explain this please, how could they keep a lie going for 5, 6 years?

when you have a lot to lose its suprising what you can do,but you just wait till the mccanns v Amaral case gets started,thats when it will all fall apart.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by saltnpepper on 04.03.13 14:46

averageperson wrote:Try as hard as I can, I still can not get to grips with why people would cover for TM. Especially when a child is involved. They are all parents and they all had to admit to leaving their children alone. I just can't even in my wildest dreams, think of one single motive for it. I would never do it. I don't care what they had on me. There must be a bigger picture here. There must be something so horrendous andwith such fear of loosing their own children, to aid in a cover up, involving moving a tiny child's body, covering up for the reason of her death, allowing TM to make shit loads of money from it.
1. It has to simply be too horrendous for words and the lives of everyone would have been damaged forever.
2. The entire scenario never ever happened and never existed in the first place.
3. The abduction story is true and the lies are to cover up something else.
4. The child's whereabouts are known and that she is happy, healthy and fine.

Please feel free to add more points, because knowledge is everything.

Hi,your scenarios involving 2 3 & 4 make the dogs alerts as mere hungry barks to his handler,if you cannot see the significance of the amount of alerts & where the alerts were then i would advise you to research the evr dog involved in the case before you think of WHY the conspiracy,it is hard to believe that lies would be told to cover up a death but imo lies have been told by every single tapas member & other people not directly involved on the 1st may 2007
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Re: Opinions please

Post by averageperson on 04.03.13 15:33

saltnpepper wrote:
averageperson wrote:Try as hard as I can, I still can not get to grips with why people would cover for TM. Especially when a child is involved. They are all parents and they all had to admit to leaving their children alone. I just can't even in my wildest dreams, think of one single motive for it. I would never do it. I don't care what they had on me. There must be a bigger picture here. There must be something so horrendous andwith such fear of loosing their own children, to aid in a cover up, involving moving a tiny child's body, covering up for the reason of her death, allowing TM to make shit loads of money from it.
1. It has to simply be too horrendous for words and the lives of everyone would have been damaged forever.
2. The entire scenario never ever happened and never existed in the first place.
3. The abduction story is true and the lies are to cover up something else.
4. The child's whereabouts are known and that she is happy, healthy and fine.

Please feel free to add more points, because knowledge is everything.

Hi,your scenarios involving 2 3 & 4 make the dogs alerts as mere hungry barks to his handler,if you cannot see the significance of the amount of alerts & where the alerts were then i would advise you to research the evr dog involved in the case before you think of WHY the conspiracy,it is hard to believe that lies would be told to cover up a death but imo lies have been told by every single tapas member & other people not directly involved on the 1st may 2007

I except the dogs completely and believe they alerted to a sense of a dead body, but it cannot prove definitely without a doubt that it was MM. Only that a body or bodies were on those items. Obviously With MM being the one missing it is very reasonable that it was indeed her scent but it is not definite. Some other crime to some other person MAY have been committed. It is within the realms of possibility. It also shows that if indeed it was MM or another person,the scent could have been put there by any person ie anyone that had been in the car, in the apartment , touched the keys etc etc. Of course the obvious persons are one or both the MC's but this is surely why there is not enough evidence for a charge. That and the lack of body to completely conclude death.

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Re: Opinions please

Post by Guest on 04.03.13 18:22

With due respect, this is not completely coherent.
But am I right in thinking that you're trying to say:
- there was cadaver scent everywhere the dogs, notably the EVRD Eddie, alerted
- there is no proof that it was Madeleine's death scent
- it might have been some other person's
- but there was a dead body in Apartment 5A
- behind the sofa
- in the master bedroom
- maybe/possibly in the flowerbed below the balcony
- such scent was subsequently transferred to
* Kate's clothes
* Cuddle Cat
* a child's T-shirt
* the rented car
* the carkey
- and Madeleine is missing, but that has nothing to do with it, maybe ... ?

It has been established by the PJ that previous to the McCanns stay in PdL nobody died, lay dead in Apt. 5A
So the only explanation, if that's what you're trying to say is:
- that someone else died in Apt 5A and was removed
- and Madeleine [alive?] was removed too

I look forward to your answer.
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Re: Opinions please

Post by Monty Heck on 04.03.13 18:25

I cannot escape the conclusion that all the children in the group were being routinely sedated throughout that holiday. There is no other reason why parents would feel confident of leaving such small children alone, even for "half an hour" between "checks". It would have been impossible to relax while dining with the thought that any of such a large number of children in the group could have woken and therefore disrupted the evening at any point. KMcC was described by FP as checking the twins throughout the night of of 3/4 May. KMcC did not go out to search until 4am or thereabouts, while meanwhile her child was either lost and alone in the dark or in the hands of an abductor. IF there was an abduction, motivation for the waters to have been well and truly muddied by the group could be to ensure they all escaped any penalty/s consequent to sedating and leaving small children alone, including loss of licence to practice in a medical capacity, therefore loss of career, not to mention potential loss of access/custody of said children. Pretty strong "glue", capable of maintaining a pact, if there is such a thing. Also, much easier to abuct a sedated child - clever old abductor to have known about that when casing the McCs apartment that week.
However, it's impossible to accept the abduction story, due to the various behaviours/inconsistencies etc, not to mention the dog alerts and inability of the combined police operation to forensically rule MMcC out of the equation. In that scenario, sedation must also be examined as must KMcCs admission that she left 3 children alone to take a shower, leaving them unattended, after having told us that MMcC was "extremely tired" that particular day to the point of needing carried back to the apartment. Yet MMcC was awake enough to sit quietly with milk and biscuits, reading books long after returning to the apartment and even after being bathed and made ready for bed still had to be read to before being put down to sleep. With the best will in the world these things cannot be overlooked and this aspect of the case is deserving of the most thorough investigation possible. If sedation can be ruled out thereafer, fair enough. IMO.

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