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Oscar Pistorius

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:38 pm

@Bob Southgate wrote:The fact remains IF that OP's girlfriend is dead, having met a very violent end. To say there is no evidence for the charges is nonsensical. OP opened fire at what he believed to be an intruder through a closed bathroom door. What justification did he have for using such lethal force in those circumstances? Was there any risk to his life at that stage? It doesn't appear there was. Why didn't he call security on the estate or police to report an intruder on premises? Why didn't he then withdraw from the area to await the arrival of security/police to enter the premises and search for the "intruder"?

I do not believe he had any justification to discharge his weapon in the circumstances as he had numerous other options available to him.

justification? Wait for police? Youre having a laugh, he thought his gfs and his life was in danger, we are talking about south africa here where you can get macheted in seconds, and he had had death threats too, he also was a panicked man with no legs,he went to a cost the burglar he shouted to his gf to call while he went to do this, you cant do two things at once, all the evidence points to a tragedy and not a cold KILLING JMO I could be wrong

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:42 pm

He didn't check where his girlfriend was, when panic broke?
Bizarre.

ETA
IMO first thing you do is make sure your loved ones [even including pets maybe] are safe before you'd start shooting.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:46 pm

Châtelaine wrote:He didn't check where his girlfriend was, when panic broke?
Bizarre.

it was dark, he got out of bed to bring the fan in from the balcony and then heard a noise there is a total affidavit somewhere, hang on will edit this post with it

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/in-full-oscar-pistoriuss-defence-affidavit-8501265.html

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:21 pm

Hm
So you live in a "violent" country, have enough worries about your safety, yet leave the balcony doors open and have an unprotected window in the bathroom?

You don't switch on the lights, but go firing on a closed toilet door, whereas you don't know where your girlfriend is?

And you start your bail statement with "how much" you're worth? So as to put a value on your being?

I may be totally mistaken, but I do have my doubts ...
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:29 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Hm
So you live in a "violent" country, have enough worries about your safety, yet leave the balcony doors open and have an unprotected window in the bathroom?

You don't switch on the lights, but go firing on a closed toilet door, whereas you don't know where your girlfriend is?

And you start your bail statement with "how much" you're worth? So as to put a value on your being?

I may be totally mistaken, but I do have my doubts ...

I too had doubts and wondered if this is going to be to another OJ case, so far I dont think so from All I have read and seen, so far, if this was planned and premedited it wouldnt have happened like this

IOW there is no red flag for me in the circumstances

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:44 pm

quote I state that the State will not be able to present any objective facts that I committed a planned or premeditated murder. unquote

Which is not the same as "I didn't commit a murder" ...
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Spaniel on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:48 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Hm
So you live in a "violent" country, have enough worries about your safety, yet leave the balcony doors open and have an unprotected window in the bathroom?

You don't switch on the lights, but go firing on a closed toilet door, whereas you don't know where your girlfriend is?

And you start your bail statement with "how much" you're worth? So as to put a value on your being?

I may be totally mistaken, but I do have my doubts ...
Before firing a gun in a confined space, it would be sensible to tell girlfriend to keep away, after all the intruder could have fired back, did he tell her to I wonder?
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Bob Southgate on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 pm

@Inspectorfrost wrote:justification? Wait for police? Youre having a laugh, he thought his gfs and his life was in danger, we are talking about south africa here where you can get macheted in seconds, and he had had death threats too, he also was a panicked man with no legs,he went to a cost the burglar he shouted to his gf to call while he went to do this, you cant do two things at once, all the evidence points to a tragedy and not a cold KILLING JMO I could be wrong

The evidence points to a dead person who was shot several times. I note you are being selective with what I said. I said that OP could have withdrawn from the house and called police and estate security. He did not do that but chose to shoot first and ask questions later. It might not have been a premeditated murder but the signs are there that there was a high degree of negligence which resulted in a death that could have been avoided.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:14 am

@Bob Southgate wrote:The fact remains IF that OP's girlfriend is dead, having met a very violent end. To say there is no evidence for the charges is nonsensical. OP opened fire at what he believed to be an intruder through a closed bathroom door. What justification did he have for using such lethal force in those circumstances? Was there any risk to his life at that stage? It doesn't appear there was. Why didn't he call security on the estate or police to report an intruder on premises? Why didn't he then withdraw from the area to await the arrival of security/police to enter the premises and search for the "intruder"?

I do not believe he had any justification to discharge his weapon in the circumstances as he had numerous other options available to him.

And he meant to kill whoever he thought was in the bathroom because he dispensed 4 bullets. One would have been enough to warn intruder.
Like I pointed out earlier, how can he not know that his g/f whom he claimed was spending the night in bed with him was not on the bed when he fired the shots.
It may be dark and whatnot but the first thing one does when hearing a noise is to check with the person right next to you whether she also heard the noise.
To assume straight away it is an intruder then carry to shoot the intruder without regard for the safety of his partner who is in the same room/bed is reckless because by doing so he was endangering her.
Because assuming there is really an intruder hiding in the bathroom who is to say the intruder is not armed or wont fire back?
Then surely his G/F whom he claimed he thought was in bed would be in danger if the intruder fires back isn't it?

Fire four means he meant to kill the person. Now the prosecutor has to prove he knew it was the G/F hiding inside and he meant to kill her.
It may be a crime of passion rather than pre-meditated. But I have no doubt he meant to kill. How can it not be when one fires not ONE but FOUR shots.

The miraculous thing is that he fired with such accuracy that of the 4 bullets he fired 3 hit his G/F - one bullet in the head and two in the abdomen. That tells you he must have known the exact location of his target.







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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by tiny on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:17 am

I think he is guilty of murder,why would you sleep with balcony doors open if you had been burgled and had death threats,surely you would make sure you were double secure in your home.and this line in his avffidavit seems funny to me.
My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. seems to me he is using his legs to get symphany
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aquila on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:04 am

I believe the court had no option but to grant bail. It's already been stated the case may not come to trial for a year. The investigative work of the SA police is in question and last but by no means least OP needs to be kept alive/unharmed to attend his trial. Google SA prisons.

The fact that OP is a high-profile sportsman works for him and against him. In prison on remand he might be raped/stabbed/murdered as a 'trophy' before being found innocent/guilty by a court. The South African prison system could not imo guarantee his safety and the whole world's media is watching. Dewani's defence team and the UK government will be watching too. As a fairly wealthy person OP is able to meet bail financially. As he has no legs and is easily recognisable it would be difficult to flee (not impossible) but the ramifications for his family would be terrible if he were to disappear. It is unlikely he will place his own family at risk from such a backlash.

Keep him alive, let the police and forensics do their job, let his defence prepare and bring him to trial in the correct manner. His family have the onerous task of ensuring he doesn't commit suicide.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:36 am

I got a very nasty picture in my head, when read this morning that his girlfriend at 3am was in the WC with the door locked and had her cellphone with her ...
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aquila on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:01 am

The details of events will become apparent in court at the trial. It is the duty of the police, forensics and prosecution to do their utmost to present unquestionable/compelling evidence to secure justice for Reeva Steenkamp and her family. It is for those people to secure a water-tight conviction.

Reeva's family have shown dignity in their grief. They are not the people baying for a quick fix.

Never under estimate the goodness of an Afrikaans family. They are the backbone of South Africa imo and both families are doing what is best in the circumstances. Both families are at a loss. It's sad.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:53 pm

Not sure he was `sleeping with the balcony doors open` - he went out there to get the fan so would have opened them first, got the fan, then closed them again. It was dark so he wouldn`t necessarily see his girlfriend had left the bed while he was getting the fan in.

He did shout to her to get the police when he was in the corridor.

I don`t think we can reason what we would do in a South African environment unless we have lived there - our reactions would be totally different living in such a threatening country.

There would be 4 shots fired if he was shooting the handle or lock off - doesn`t necessarily mean he was shooting at a person.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Spaniel on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:33 pm

[quote="Woofer"]Not sure he was `sleeping with the balcony doors open` - he went out there to get the fan so would have opened them first, got the fan, then closed them again. It was dark so he wouldn`t necessarily see his girlfriend had left the bed while he was getting the fan in.

He did shout to her to get the police when he was in the corridor.

I don`t think we can reason what we would do in a South African environment unless we have lived there - our reactions would be totally different living in such a threatening country.

There would be 4 shots fired if he was shooting the handle or lock off - doesn`t necessarily mean he was shooting at a person.[/quote. Pitch black yet he could locate the socket to plug it in.

I'm surprised it was so dark as the estate has street lighting. This wasn't a few select homes with huge space between them, this was dense, safety in numbers sort of place. here's the plan.
http://www.silverwoods.co.za/layout-of-the-estate/
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by plebgate on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:11 pm

I heard earlier on the news that Reeva's parents are going to set up a Trust for battered women.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:30 pm

@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:justification? Wait for police? Youre having a laugh, he thought his gfs and his life was in danger, we are talking about south africa here where you can get macheted in seconds, and he had had death threats too, he also was a panicked man with no legs,he went to a cost the burglar he shouted to his gf to call while he went to do this, you cant do two things at once, all the evidence points to a tragedy and not a cold KILLING JMO I could be wrong

The evidence points to a dead person who was shot several times. I note you are being selective with what I said. I said that OP could have withdrawn from the house and called police and estate security. He did not do that but chose to shoot first and ask questions later. It might not have been a premeditated murder but the signs are there that there was a high degree of negligence which resulted in a death that could have been avoided.

But that is what people in SA do because you could be shot in seconds yourself, it will come out in the wash

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by sallypelt on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:53 pm

Horrified family told Pistorius 'DID beat Reeva with cricket bat' as they are shown her extensive head injuries

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283507/Horrified-family-told-Pistorius-DID-beat-Reeva-cricket-bat-shown-extensive-head-injuries.html#ixzz2Llm1XxEd

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Bob Southgate on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:23 am

@Inspectorfrost wrote:
@Bob Southgate wrote:
@Inspectorfrost wrote:justification? Wait for police? Youre having a laugh, he thought his gfs and his life was in danger, we are talking about south africa here where you can get macheted in seconds, and he had had death threats too, he also was a panicked man with no legs,he went to a cost the burglar he shouted to his gf to call while he went to do this, you cant do two things at once, all the evidence points to a tragedy and not a cold KILLING JMO I could be wrong

The evidence points to a dead person who was shot several times. I note you are being selective with what I said. I said that OP could have withdrawn from the house and called police and estate security. He did not do that but chose to shoot first and ask questions later. It might not have been a premeditated murder but the signs are there that there was a high degree of negligence which resulted in a death that could have been avoided.

But that is what people in SA do because you could be shot in seconds yourself, it will come out in the wash
Do they? When someone is in an apparantly locked room they shoot first without making any apparant attempt to determine there is actually an intruder in the house? Yet the murder rate in South Africa has fallen by over 50% between 1994 and 2011 from 67 per 100000 of the population to 32. WHich is still considerably higher than in most european countries but nonetheless still a significant reduction.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:50 am

@Woofer wrote:

There would be 4 shots fired if he was shooting the handle or lock off - doesn`t necessarily mean he was shooting at a person.

The Police would be able to tell where he aimed the shots at from crime scene evidence.

So he hears a noise in the the master bedroom ensuit bathroom, suspects an intruder, and the first thing he did is shoot the handle or lock off thereby endangering himself and his G/F further, risking the intruder rushing out in panic with his weapon and shooting them both ? err...I dont think so.

Let's just say his stories do not add up and full of holes like colander.

His bed room is upstairs. So where was the point of entry?
Say if the burglar were to look into the master bedroom, finds it occupied, he's more likely to rush back downstairs and try to run away rather than proceeds into the bathroom to hide. All these may be besides the point. What the Police will be looking at is the exact location she was found and whether the shots through the door were aimed directly in her direction. That would have hugh implication as to OS knew exactly where to aim at even though it was pitch dark.

Ironically because of his fame, his money will afford him the best lawyers, and the best PR to spin. OJ all over again.

He is safer outside than in prison. His legs or lack of is not going to be a deterrent if he sets his mind to abscond.
He looks petty normal when his legs are fixed on and he's covered up in right attire and can go about doing things in a normal way more or less in the same manner like able bodied people do. Take his appearance in Court for example, dressed up in suits, who would have suspected he's handicapped if this was not reported in the Papers and Media. People who do not follow sports would not have heard or known of him. I have not known about him until this incident, and just by looking at his appearance in Court I would not have suspected he is handicapped.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aquila on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:39 am

@sallypelt wrote:Horrified family told Pistorius 'DID beat Reeva with cricket bat' as they are shown her extensive head injuries

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283507/Horrified-family-told-Pistorius-DID-beat-Reeva-cricket-bat-shown-extensive-head-injuries.html#ixzz2Llm1XxEd

Hi sallypelt,

Thanks for posting this link. I'm still of the opinion that it was much better to grant bail to OP. This case will not go away. It's a showcase for the South African police et al to demonstrate their ability to investigate, prosecute and secure a conviction. This is the only way true justice will be found for Reeva Steenkamp and her family imo.

If OP had been denied bail that would give the defence feathers to line their nest with. This way, there can be no excuses for poor treatment, mental health/physical issues 'caused' by incarceration whilst awaiting trial. Nothing to muddy the water in that respect.

@Bob Southgate - if you believe the stats for gun crime in South Africa to be accurate then you are a far more optimistic person than I am. This beautiful country (I miss it very much) is a hell-hole of horrendous violent crime, beyond the imagination of day-to-day living in UK. It doesn't matter much if stats 'show' crime has dropped by a percent or two, there is a constant fear of guns - I've been on the pointy end of three guns btw - those figures whether true or manufactured can't alter the fear and reality of living in a violent country.

Reeva Steenkamp's short life and violent death may well be a shining beacon to expose South Africa's total inability to deal with crimes against women. For anyone with the stomach, look up rape statistics in South Africa...you'll find disembowelment.

Sorry if I've put anyone of their cornflakes this morning.
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:07 am

24 February 2013 Last updated at 07:36





Oscar Pistorius brother Carl also facing homicide trial




The brother of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius - accused of murdering his girlfriend - is also facing trial over the death of a woman.

Carl Pistorius is charged with culpable homicide over the death of a woman motorcyclist in a traffic accident, his lawyer said.



More on link...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21563911
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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by PeterMac on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:27 am

They have the same solicitor !

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by bobbin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:34 am

@aquila wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:Horrified family told Pistorius 'DID beat Reeva with cricket bat' as they are shown her extensive head injuries

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283507/Horrified-family-told-Pistorius-DID-beat-Reeva-cricket-bat-shown-extensive-head-injuries.html#ixzz2Llm1XxEd

Hi sallypelt,

Thanks for posting this link. I'm still of the opinion that it was much better to grant bail to OP. This case will not go away. It's a showcase for the South African police et al to demonstrate their ability to investigate, prosecute and secure a conviction. This is the only way true justice will be found for Reeva Steenkamp and her family imo.

If OP had been denied bail that would give the defence feathers to line their nest with. This way, there can be no excuses for poor treatment, mental health/physical issues 'caused' by incarceration whilst awaiting trial. Nothing to muddy the water in that respect.

@Bob Southgate - if you believe the stats for gun crime in South Africa to be accurate then you are a far more optimistic person than I am. This beautiful country (I miss it very much) is a hell-hole of horrendous violent crime, beyond the imagination of day-to-day living in UK. It doesn't matter much if stats 'show' crime has dropped by a percent or two, there is a constant fear of guns - I've been on the pointy end of three guns btw - those figures whether true or manufactured can't alter the fear and reality of living in a violent country.

Reeva Steenkamp's short life and violent death may well be a shining beacon to expose South Africa's total inability to deal with crimes against women. For anyone with the stomach, look up rape statistics in South Africa...you'll find disembowelment.

Sorry if I've put anyone of their cornflakes this morning.
hi aquila, I agree with you.
I spent a short time in SA, witnessed more than enough to get frightened and fearful for my life. It's possibly a beautiful country geographically, but the underlying menace is tangible and the overt threats are so worrying that I left the place just as soon as I could get on the next plane to do so. Three men huddling round the back of a car, putting a dead body into the boot, closing it and driving off. These were all whites, by the way. Nothing reported to the police, blind eyes being turned, police too. All 'known' but 'not known'.
There is a lot that is squarely unwholesome there, and we Brits in the UK cannot imagine a people having an attitude (regarding what we would consider fearful culpable crime) which is almost accepting of the violent status quo.
I am not commenting on the Oscar Pistorius thread, simply because the actual level of violence, in SA, men to men, men to women, women to children, etc. is so deranged when compared with what western European norms would tolerate. We just can't use our norms as a measure of what is going on over there.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Bob Southgate on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:36 am

@aquila wrote:@Bob Southgate - if you believe the stats for gun crime in South Africa to be accurate then you are a far more optimistic person than I am. This beautiful country (I miss it very much) is a hell-hole of horrendous violent crime, beyond the imagination of day-to-day living in UK. It doesn't matter much if stats 'show' crime has dropped by a percent or two, there is a constant fear of guns - I've been on the pointy end of three guns btw - those figures whether true or manufactured can't alter the fear and reality of living in a violent country.

Reeva Steenkamp's short life and violent death may well be a shining beacon to expose South Africa's total inability to deal with crimes against women. For anyone with the stomach, look up rape statistics in South Africa...you'll find disembowelment.

Sorry if I've put anyone of their cornflakes this morning.
I haven't quoted any statistics relating to gun crime, just the murder statistics, which is entirely different. And while there is scepticism about some of the crime figures in SA the murder stats are believed to be accurate. The fact remains that while the muder rate is still very high it has halved between 1994 and 2011.

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