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The Experiment

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The Experiment

Post by Truthmustout on 17.02.13 20:09

As I told earlier I was going to do and experiment on my daughter tonight as she is the exact age today as Madeleine was when she went missing.
I let her slep the exact amount of time as M , according to when she was put to bed by K and G and then Seen by Jane Tanner. I used my hubby to lift her as he is stronger than me, would also say bigger and stronger then the man JT Claims she saw .

Well she did wake up almost before he touched her, and by the time he lifted her up and before he got to turn her around she was fully awake looking at us with big eyes probably wondering what the hell was going on lol :)

We put her back in the bed, and she was a sleep again within minutes.

So my conclusion is, that unless Madeleine by nature was a heavy sleeper, she would have to be drugged one way or the other to sleep through that "abduction" And I dont think Madeleine was a heavy sleeper as her sleeping cart home in England suggest otherwise... I also dont think there would been any time for an abductor to sedate her and do all what he did in those few minutes and leaving absolutly no traces.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Spaniel on 17.02.13 20:30

Moa-Vanilla wrote:As I told earlier I was going to do and experiment on my daughter tonight as she is the exact age today as Madeleine was when she went missing.
I let her slep the exact amount of time as M , according to when she was put to bed by K and G and then Seen by Jane Tanner. I used my hubby to lift her as he is stronger than me, would also say bigger and stronger then the man JT Claims she saw .

Well she did wake up almost before he touched her, and by the time he lifted her up and before he got to turn her around she was fully awake looking at us with big eyes probably wondering what the hell was going on lol :)

We put her back in the bed, and she was a sleep again within minutes.

So my conclusion is, that unless Madeleine by nature was a heavy sleeper, she would have to be drugged one way or the other to sleep through that "abduction" And I dont think Madeleine was a heavy sleeper as her sleeping cart home in England suggest otherwise... I also dont think there would been any time for an abductor to sedate her and do all what he did in those few minutes and leaving absolutly no traces.
Maybe I watched too many old films, but I thought a child snatcher would enter with a blanket and wrap the kid up to stop them struggling in case they awoke.

Glad your babe is non the worse for your experiment.
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 20:30

This is part of doing a "reconstruction". Well done, Vanilla-Moa :-)

Maybe try tomorrow [and explain to her first that it's a joke ...] to carry her on your forearms ...
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Truthmustout on 17.02.13 20:33

@Spaniel wrote:
Moa-Vanilla wrote:As I told earlier I was going to do and experiment on my daughter tonight as she is the exact age today as Madeleine was when she went missing.
I let her slep the exact amount of time as M , according to when she was put to bed by K and G and then Seen by Jane Tanner. I used my hubby to lift her as he is stronger than me, would also say bigger and stronger then the man JT Claims she saw .

Well she did wake up almost before he touched her, and by the time he lifted her up and before he got to turn her around she was fully awake looking at us with big eyes probably wondering what the hell was going on lol :)

We put her back in the bed, and she was a sleep again within minutes.

So my conclusion is, that unless Madeleine by nature was a heavy sleeper, she would have to be drugged one way or the other to sleep through that "abduction" And I dont think Madeleine was a heavy sleeper as her sleeping cart home in England suggest otherwise... I also dont think there would been any time for an abductor to sedate her and do all what he did in those few minutes and leaving absolutly no traces.
Maybe I watched too many old films, but I thought a child snatcher would enter with a blanket and wrap the kid up to stop them struggling in case they awoke.

Glad your babe is non the worse for your experiment.

Im sure there are a reason for those old films story, as I would say wrapping them up or drugging them would be the only way working to lift and move a child without it kicking and screaming... And thats not what JT saw now was it?

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Truthmustout on 17.02.13 20:37

Châtelaine wrote:This is part of doing a "reconstruction". Well done, Vanilla-Moa :-)

Maybe try tomorrow [and explain to her first that it's a joke ...] to carry her on your forearms ...

I would have had problems with that, but I will lett my hubby do it and see how long it takes for him to get pains in his arms lol. I do think a strong enough man could carrie a child like that, but not without it waking up.

In my experiement he never got to take even one step in the room with her in the arms because she was fully awake...

Maybe someone can do an experiement to see if they can stay on a narrow quiet street talking without noticing a bypasser big grin

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 20:46

Moa-Vanilla wrote: Maybe someone can do an experiement to see if they can stay on a narrow quiet street talking without noticing a bypasser big grin

My better half tells me there's good reason the men didn't see Jane. Because men can only do one thing at a time and they were already talking.

A good experiment and thanks for sharing.
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Spaniel on 17.02.13 20:52

Finn wrote:
Moa-Vanilla wrote: Maybe someone can do an experiement to see if they can stay on a narrow quiet street talking without noticing a bypasser

My better half tells me there's good reason the men didn't see Jane. Because men can only do one thing at a time and they were already talking.

A good experiment and thanks for sharing.
Finn, the first reports out said the two men spoke for fifteen minutes. I kept telling them no, men do not speak for that length of time.
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 21:01

I just learned something: Men can only do one thing at the time and not too long ...
It's never too late to learn, though
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Guest on 17.02.13 21:02

My humble apologies to the male part of the audience
But "girls just want to have fun" ...
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Re: The Experiment

Post by russiandoll on 17.02.13 22:45

quote moa-vanilla : " And thats not what JT saw now was it? "


no it was not, and the abductor also managed to turn Maddie around, so
she was carried with feet facing JT......so those pj's could be seen.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Inspectorfrost on 17.02.13 23:08

@russiandoll wrote:quote moa-vanilla : " And thats not what JT saw now was it? "


no it was not, and the abductor also managed to turn Maddie around, so
she was carried with feet facing JT......so those pj's could be seen.

And the jim jams were down to the bottom of the feet like long leggings UNLIKE shorts that where put up in appeals

For a four year old to wear shorts that came down to her ankles they must have been size 22 plus+
big grin
I know parents buy clothes a year or two bigger sometimes but hello?
Moa you are so funny! Well done! And many of us Im sure in this odd case thought back to holidays and their childcare arrangements, but according to GM on TV three weeks latef btw,THOUSANDS of people wrote to him and said theyhad done the same thing or WOULD DO
liar





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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 9:24

Jane Tanner passing Gerry McCann AND Jeremy (Jez) Wilkins

Tanner says she passed them on the apartment side of the street, at the bottom of the stairs. Wilkins confirms they were on that side of the street.
The pavement by the apartment is a little over 2m wide, the road is 6m, pavement the other side similarly is 2m (google earth, maps google, personal visit)
A Maclaren buggy is 62 cm long
A man is 60 cm wide
A man is 40 cm deep, but with his arms bent at the elbow and held slightly to the front with his hands on the handles of the buggy, is 60 cm
The “length” of man - buggy - decent social space - man , assuming the two men were exactly facing each other is therefore around 220 cm
The men would not stand right on the kerb, for reasons of safety, but some distance inboard of the kerb, perhaps 30 cm, or more.
Tanner would not pass with her shoulder scraping the wall, but would walk some normal distance outboard of the wall. Perhaps 30 cm or more.

Taking the width of the pavement 220,
less 30 inboard of kerb
less 60 width of man
less 60 width of woman
less 30 outboard of wall

Jane Tanner must pass within 40 cm (16 inches) of the men
Thus


If the men are standing 40 cm from the kerb, which is more likely, Tanner would probably have to turn sideways to pass them without physically touching them.
THIS twisting sideways is in fact what is shown in the mokumentary
It is inconceivable that neither man would see her under these circumstances.


If we then turn to the way in which most men face each other to speak, they adopt a body position of about 90 degrees and speak towards the apex of the triangle thus formed.

This means that Wilkins plus buggy now project into the pavement to a depth of
85 cm (Pythagorus - 45º iscoseles triangle with hypotenuse of 120)
Taking the width of the pavement 220,
less 30 inboard of kerb
less 85 triangulated depth of man and buggy
less 60 width of woman
less 30 outboard of wall

Jane Tanner must pass within 15 cm (6 inches) of the men

Thus

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Mirage on 18.02.13 9:46

@PeterMac wrote:Jane Tanner passing Gerry McCann AND Jeremy (Jez) Wilkins

Tanner says she passed them on the apartment side of the street, at the bottom of the stairs. Wilkins confirms they were on that side of the street.
The pavement by the apartment is a little over 2m wide, the road is 6m, pavement the other side similarly is 2m (google earth, maps google, personal visit)
A Maclaren buggy is 62 cm long
A man is 60 cm wide
A man is 40 cm deep, but with his arms bent at the elbow and held slightly to the front with his hands on the handles of the buggy, is 60 cm
The “length” of man - buggy - decent social space - man , assuming the two men were exactly facing each other is therefore around 220 cm
The men would not stand right on the kerb, for reasons of safety, but some distance inboard of the kerb, perhaps 30 cm, or more.
Tanner would not pass with her shoulder scraping the wall, but would walk some normal distance outboard of the wall. Perhaps 30 cm or more.

Taking the width of the pavement 220,
less 30 inboard of kerb
less 60 width of man
less 60 width of woman
less 30 outboard of wall

Jane Tanner must pass within 40 cm (16 inches) of the men
Thus


If the men are standing 40 cm from the kerb, which is more likely, Tanner would probably have to turn sideways to pass them without physically touching them.
THIS twisting sideways is in fact what is shown in the mokumentary
It is inconceivable that neither man would see her under these circumstances.


If we then turn to the way in which most men face each other to speak, they adopt a body position of about 90 degrees and speak towards the apex of the triangle thus formed.

This means that Wilkins plus buggy now project into the pavement to a depth of
85 cm (Pythagorus - 45º iscoseles triangle with hypotenuse of 120)
Taking the width of the pavement 220,
less 30 inboard of kerb
less 85 triangulated depth of man and buggy
less 60 width of woman
less 30 outboard of wall

Jane Tanner must pass within 15 cm (6 inches) of the men

Thus

Interviewer: Well Gerry, what have you go to say about that then?

Gerry: I've no problem with anyone purporting a theory. But as Keet has said, we know more about this than you do , and it was a Bermuda triangle.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Mirage on 18.02.13 9:59

And all joking apart - a fascinating piece of research, Peter Mac

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Re: The Experiment

Post by plebgate on 18.02.13 10:10

Mirage posted: "Gerry: I've no problem with anyone
purporting a theory. But as Keet has said, we know more about this than
you do , and it was a Bermuda triangle."

But if anybody does purport a theory he does not agree with he will spend 4 million quid to crush the FW's in court.

Yes that was Brilliant Peter Mac. Excellent.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 10:42

It was sent to Grange some time ago.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Mirage on 18.02.13 10:50

@PeterMac wrote:It was sent to Grange some time ago.

Excellent!

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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 11:04

And in case anyone from TM or C-R is scanning this, could you possibly pass it on to Jane Tanner for her consideration.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Woofer on 18.02.13 11:17

So, it comes down to who is lying.

GM is the least credible as we know and a known liar.

So its a toss up between JT and JW.
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Re: The Experiment

Post by guest. on 18.02.13 11:27


JW is the one who's statement the police are surely taking as the most likely to be the truth.
If he didn't see her the police suspicion has to be she wasn't there and therefore her whole scenario about the abductor is a lie.


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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 11:35

GA clearly believes that JT had turned left along the path at the bottom of the gardens, and therefore had gone to her apartment through her own patio doors.
So she didn't even get as far as GM and JW.
Which makes a bit more sense, actually.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 11:58

It is curious that without JT's "sighting" there would have been a window of opportunity of an hour.
With it, they are trapped in a window of opportunity of 2 minutes and 40 seconds.
What went wrong ?

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Re: The Experiment

Post by Guest on 18.02.13 12:09

A reminder of Dave Edgar's hilarious reconstruction of Jane Tanner's version of events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na4aBr5PTYY

It starts at around 0.50 and particularly of interest is how Gerry abruptly cuts Jane off from 1.50 when she remarks about him being gone for a long time.

Thanks to that fine upstanding citizen Pedro Silva for posting the documentary!
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Re: The Experiment

Post by Nina on 18.02.13 12:11

Very interesting observations PMac. May I add that when trying to get a restless child to sleep by walking it in a pram/buggy, then even when stationary one tends to still push it back and forth or at least jiggle it about or the baby/toddler wakes and grizzles.This would make the area even larger.

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Re: The Experiment

Post by PeterMac on 18.02.13 12:34

Jean wrote:A reminder of Dave Edgar's hilarious reconstruction of Jane Tanner's version of events.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na4aBr5PTYY
It starts at around 0.50 and particularly of interest is how Gerry abruptly cuts Jane off from 1.50 when she remarks about him being gone for a long time.
Thanks to that fine upstanding citizen Pedro Silva for posting the documentary!
Not only cuts her off but turns his shoulder and marches away from her. Body language is so expressive !
He clearly didn't want that bit on TV, although it is in the statements.

Remember that the statements were not in the public domain at that point. He thought he still had control.

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