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What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Inspectorfrost on 03.02.13 17:34

i have found Dr Eckmans body language/micro expressions very interesting and his videos. I am not sure I believe as much in statement analysis to such a degree that mentioning opening and closing doors or calling kids children or mentioning washing machines suggests sexual abuse. I think it is a good tool but not written in stone.JMO

As for Kates 10 minute absence it is also confirmed in Rachel Oldfields statement where she says she came back 5 or 10 minutes later.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Hobs on 03.02.13 18:34

@Ribisl wrote:@Hobbs
If you are a student of statement analysis as you mentioned earlier, I would have thought you must also be aware that your own statements must be accompanied by caveats instead of making them sound like indisputable facts. However, if this is the accepted way statement analysts present their opinion, then I stand to be corrected.

I generally find your opinion very interesting but here are a couple of comments regarding your analysis:

You say
Why does she use the word children and not kids? Kids is commonplace almost universal language,ie i'll just check on the kis. Children or child is often used used in cases of abuse we don't say kid abuse we say child abuse.
In England, we tend to refer to our children more often as 'children' rather than 'kids' compared to the Americans, so this may not be so significant as you suggest, especially as she is giving a formal recount on camera.

Kate said
And to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then, but I just noticed that the door, the bedroom door where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it.
You say
Three is the liars number (Mark McClish) you may say there were three children in the bedroom so she isn't lyng.
I really think you need to qualify a statement like this imo. If one or two of the children had been sleeping in the parents' bed or bedroom prior to this date, then it would be quite natural for her to say this referring to this particular evening when all three children had been sleeping together in the same bedroom. It's just one of several possible interpretations.

You say
When doors open and closed, lights on and off, water or washing are introduced it is often associated with sexua abuse.
This may be true statistically but one cannot infer that to be the case every time doors open and close, lights on and off, water or washing is mentioned in a witness statement.

Regarding the word children.

In the uk as well as the states, kids is the more the commonly used term when talking about their offspring.

I'm going to check on the kids, i'm picking the kids up from school and so on.

It may also vary in regard to class and education, however, in cases where there is suspicion of child abuse or a child has gone missing and parental involvement is suspected, the word child crops up more often that kid. It's use should be noted as should any changes in language such as when it changes from a name to a child, my daughter, kid and so on. A change in language indicates a change in reality.

Regarding the number three, in the process of free editing, the brain thinks of the words a microsecond before they are spoken.

When a subject speaks, the words have meaning for them, they tell us what is on their mind and what is important for them. kate felt the need to tell us there were three children sleeping in the room, why?

It was important enough for her to tell us this was so making it sensitive.

Since all the children were asleep in their own apartments and allegedly not all in one apartment as has been suggested, there would therefore only be the mccanns children sleeping in the room. We know there are three children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie. Why did kate feel the need, that it was important enough to be spoken that there were three children asleep in the room and not the children or our children or even my children? She may not have been deceptive as the number three doesn't always mean eception, it is however something to be red flagged.One or two red flags does not mean the persons is being deceptive, it may mean sensitivity due to say parental guilt. Multiple red flags as is seen in their statements indicates deception. When a person is deceptive, they have a reason to be deceptive.

Regarding personal hygiene, doors, lights and so on.

If i were to ask you what you did yesterday from the moment you woke up to the moment you went to bed, it is likely you wouldn't say i brushed my teeth, washed and dried my hair closed the doors between rooms, locked the bathroom door and so on.

we tend to edit out the trivial stuff otherwise we would be there all day talking about our daily routine.

It is expected that when we wake up we wash and brush our teeth, we wash our hands after using the bathroom, we dry ourselves off after a bath or shower rather than running around outsie till we are dry, we don't need to tell people we have done this. However, in cases of domestic violence as an example, the woman may tell us her bathroom habits, simply because it is the only time she perhaps feels safe, has some privacy. it is important enough to her for her to introduce it therefore we note it.

In cases of sexual abuse of children we often hear of doors opening indicating perhaps the abuser has come in doors closing when they leave, lights on and off and covers (remember how as kids if we were scared of the dark we hid under the covers?) when doors, lights, washing is introduced by the subject it doesn't mean that sexual abuse is or has taken place place, it does appear often enough in child abuse cases from the victims that it is noted and further questions asked due to it's sensitivity.

What is noticeable in kate's statements in the light of may 3rd she had a shower and was in a towel when david payne arrived, she then had another shower or bath when gerry arrived.

There is also a preoccupation with doors open and closed and lights on and off all of which are flagged as sensitive and which warrant further questioning especially given a child is missing, the innapropriate discussion about Madeleine witnessed by 2 independant doctors and david payne allegedly likeing to bathe other peoples children. This ilso links with the statement by kate whotalked about Madeleine asking why she didn't come when they cried and asked if it was when they were being bathed or put to bed? ( if she were bathing and putting them to bed the question wouldn't have risen so who was bathing and putting them to bed if not kate and gerry and where was this happening if not 5a?)



We let the subject guide the interview noting anything unexpected. We always assume the subject is being truthful, this way anything unexpected stands out and warrant closer investigation.

We only use language the subject introduces and note when there are improper social introductions (perhaps indicative of a poor relationhip) or a change in lanh guage indicating a change in reality ( ie Madeleine when missing and child or daughter when she isn't)
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Nina on 03.02.13 18:50

Hobs, could you answer my question of you in a previous post re the word 'still' in relation to the turned back bed covers. Thank you in advance roses

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fao HOBS

Post by russiandoll on 03.02.13 18:59

Thank you for your many very interesting posts; on a thread somewhere on this forum a while back I posted something on use of tenses for story-telling......a reliable pointer to this story of abduction in the night being a work of fiction.

btw the following was commented on by a few posters- it is indeed very strange :


"the top right-hand corners of the covers were still turned over, forming a triangle "


does she think her readers are thick? of course if the corners of the covers were turned back they would form a triangle. why is she inserting this needless detail ? not just corners but right hand corners... to show that Maddie was sleeping [as always stated ] in the bed closest to the door, to let us know that the covers were left that way for Maddie to get easily out of bed, so it was easy for her abductor to slip his hands in and take her quickly. he only had about 90 seconds to get out and be seen by JT.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Hobs on 03.02.13 19:07

@Nina wrote:Hobs, could you answer my question of you in a previous post re the word 'still' in relation to the turned back bed covers. Thank you in advance



Hi Nina

Well spotted.

If it was still turned over then she or gerry would have been the one to turn it over into the perfect triangle.

Once you put a child into bed and place the covers over them, the corners would no longer have been turned over and would definitely not have remained unchanged given how much children wriggle and move until they fall asleep. Also everyone moves durig sleep to prevent pressure on a particular spot, to cool down or to snuggle up.

It is possible a sedated child would not move and would stay as placed thus making the bedding remain the same.

Deceptive people also insert additional unnecessary details in order to make their story seem more believable, however , rather than strengthening their statement it weakens it.

It does sound like staging of a scene.

Why would innocent parents stag a scene and be deceptive if their child was truly abducted?

Guilty parents however have every reason to stage the scene and to be deceptive, it is the only way they can conceal their involvement.

This is the problem the mccans and the tapas 7 face, so many lies and discrepancies, the more they try to correct one area the more another area becomes unravelled.



I wonder if the tapas realise they could face charges of accessory after the fact in Madeleine's death as well as child neglect, filing false police reports and obstruction of justice ( is this why they got oldfield to make the call?)



As a matter of interest i would love to hear the 911 call
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by russiandoll on 03.02.13 19:11

over -egging the pudding = a fiction imo
btw did not Kate say in the book that Gerry was last out of the bedroom, checking on children being asleep before they left for tapas, while she was in the lounge area?
So what is all this about how WE had left them [ covers]. ?

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by tigger on 03.02.13 20:46

@russiandoll wrote:Thank you for your many very interesting posts; on a thread somewhere on this forum a while back I posted something on use of tenses for story-telling......a reliable pointer to this story of abduction in the night being a work of fiction.

btw the following was commented on by a few posters- it is indeed very strange :


"the top right-hand corners of the covers were still turned over, forming a triangle "


does she think her readers are thick? of course if the corners of the covers were turned back they would form a triangle. why is she inserting this needless detail ? not just corners but right hand corners... to show that Maddie was sleeping [as always stated ] in the bed closest to the door, to let us know that the covers were left that way for Maddie to get easily out of bed, so it was easy for her abductor to slip his hands in and take her quickly. he only had about 90 seconds to get out and be seen by JT.

Imo these details were added because by that time the photographs were available to all who wished to see the evidence.
So the book was treading a fine line between the early statements and the published evidence (to the contrary).
Photographs seem to have been an enormous help altogether, as e.g. their last memory of Maddie being the photograph by the pool.
Which wasn't the last time they are supposed to have seen her.

The blanket seen in the photograph is also mentioned in the book, but no suggestion as to where it is now or what they did with it, unlike Cuddlecat who was assigned a starring role. One might expect information on both these precious items.
What's not in the book is quite - eloquent for want of a better word.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by PeterMac on 03.02.13 22:00

It is all good stuff.
As cops we never learned this as a formal discipline, but knew though experience that the suspect
who in answer to the question "where were you at 9:05 ?" answered
"I was on the bus until 9:08 , then went to the Spotted Aardvark pub where I had one half of bitter in the saloon, and then at 9:14 and thirty seconds . . . ." was lying.

The ones you couldn't get past were those who said,
"I'm sorry, I haven't a clue. Somewhere in town I suppose. What time did the match finish ? "
They were more likely to be telling the truth.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Guest on 04.02.13 8:13

Exactly PM. Unless we have an autistic savant (I don't like the usual term idiot savant) who can recite facts and figures without a moment's hesitation, nobody would be able to recount their activities in such detail.
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Guest on 04.02.13 9:10

Jean wrote:Exactly PM. Unless we have an autistic savant (I don't like the usual term idiot savant) who can recite facts and figures without a moment's hesitation, nobody would be able to recount their activities in such detail.

The worst thing is that in her book Kate brags about how she remembers every little detail from that evening and the days before, still she tells different storys in her book and in her documentary .. i mean come on, how do they get away with it ?
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Guest on 04.02.13 9:28

@Hobs wrote:
@Nina wrote:Hobs, could you answer my question of you in a previous post re the word 'still' in relation to the turned back bed covers. Thank you in advance



Hi Nina

Well spotted.

If it was still turned over then she or gerry would have been the one to turn it over into the perfect triangle.

Once you put a child into bed and place the covers over them, the corners would no longer have been turned over and would definitely not have remained unchanged given how much children wriggle and move until they fall asleep. Also everyone moves durig sleep to prevent pressure on a particular spot, to cool down or to snuggle up.

It is possible a sedated child would not move and would stay as placed thus making the bedding remain the same.

Deceptive people also insert additional unnecessary details in order to make their story seem more believable, however , rather than strengthening their statement it weakens it.

It does sound like staging of a scene.

Why would innocent parents stag a scene and be deceptive if their child was truly abducted?

Guilty parents however have every reason to stage the scene and to be deceptive, it is the only way they can conceal their involvement.

This is the problem the mccans and the tapas 7 face, so many lies and discrepancies, the more they try to correct one area the more another area becomes unravelled.



I wonder if the tapas realise they could face charges of accessory after the fact in Madeleine's death as well as child neglect, filing false police reports and obstruction of justice ( is this why they got oldfield to make the call?)



As a matter of interest i would love to hear the 911 call

Would be great with and SA of this statement that they gave may 4 th Hobs :

Mr McCann tonight read out a brief statement, with his wife at his side, pleading with the abductors to release the three-year-old - described as 'happy-go-lucky'' - back to her family.

With the emotion audible in his voice, he said: 'We cannot describe the anguish and despair we are feeling as parents of our beautiful daughter Madeleine.

'We request that anyone with any information relating to Madeleine's disappearance, no matter how trivial, contact the Portuguese police and help us get her back safely.''

He then directly addressed anyone who might be holding his daughter, saying: 'Please, if you have Madeleine, let her come home to her Mummy, Daddy, brother and sister.''

He also asked that the family's privacy be respected so that they can do as much as possible to help the police investigation into their daughter's disappearance.

'Everyone can understand how distressing the current situation is. We ask that our privacy is respected to allow us to continue assisting the police in their investigation,'' he said.


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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by russiandoll on 04.02.13 9:51

Interesting how many pages and paragraphs were devoted to the
preamble to the tapas dinner, the group congregating, the checks and
especially to the discovery of the disappearance. As a writer wanting a reader to engage with you, you would
not want to simply state things that happened, what you did, when, why
and for how long, you understandably want to impress certain things on
your reader, the relaxation and sense of safety in an established
evening routine , followed by the discovery of something awful..you are
writing a book after all and you want to hold a reader's interests..but you have stated before the story begins that it is an account of the truth.

Why would
you devote so many paragraphs and words to EXACT TIMES...[9.04 by
Gerry's watch was one iirc,] also YOUR MOVEMENTS after entering your
apartment to do your check, when that was something you refused to tell
the police?
There is imo no need for such embellishment in a
truthful account, it was this overkill in terms of language, the style
of writing, the distancing from the emotions described while clearly
trying to make them immediate for the reader, which made me question the motive for this book.

I had only read a small amount from the files before reading the book, it was the number of red flags in the book which made me return to read a lot more and then join here.

Kate McCann, in this account of her actions once inside 5a, does not come over as a distraught mother finding her child had vanished, so much as a writer intent on engineering certain emotions in her reader. It is imo what is done by a writer of fiction, not fact. Too much detail, too much precision. There would imo be no need for this over-egging of the pudding if she were being completely honest.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Monty Heck on 04.02.13 10:18

Hobs Yesterday at 8:27 am






"Instead we have them being dumped in the creche as if nothing had happened. How were they to know that the alleged abductor didn't work or have a connection with the creche?

They turned down a babysitter because they didn''t trust a stranger and didn't want strangers looking after their children, yet, were happy to leave thir children with strangers during the day, the same strangers who babysat at night."


Strange indeed in those circumstances to place their children straight back into the creche however they often emphasised the importance of routine for young children and this was after all a routine established for what, all of 5 days? Perhaps any potential harm resulting from a breach of routine was considered against parental need not to let the children out of their sight or indeed any danger that the abductor was in any way conncted with the creche and found to be the greater risk, therefore into the creche they had to go for their own good.

More disturbingly was their leaving the twins on a regular basis with the Hubbards instead when asked by the OC to keep the twins away as the media were causing too much disruption to other users. I was informed while in PDL in mid July 2007 that this was already an established routine, and this was one of the things which made me start to question the truth of the story as given by the McCs and team. I was quite astounded by this and also the rumours in the village about the undamaged shutters, the jogging and group dining with the large numbers of supporters who'd been drafted in by the family. Some people seemed pretty shocked at the goings on while the searches were still in progress. I was also there when the apartment and villa were being searched by the sniffer dogs but, though aware of police activity knew nothing of what they were doing.

They had of course very quickly become friendly with the Hs but hardly knew them and had only met a few weeks previously and even their new parishoners could not be said to have known them well as the Hs were only recently arrived themselves. The chaplaincy house is located in a quiet side street just off the beach at the Rocha Negra end, directly on the path that leads up to the monument on the cliff top and the garden where the children played was in no way secluded, being separated from the street by only by a chain link fence. None of these things were generally known at that time so this visit was a real eye opener.






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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by monkey mind on 04.02.13 10:55

Very interesting Monty. Thanks for enlightening us. Any other interesting snippets from that time come to mind I'm sure we'd all be interested. thumbsup
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Nina on 04.02.13 11:14

@Monty Heck wrote: Hobs Yesterday at 8:27 am






"Instead we have them being dumped in the creche as if nothing had happened. How were they to know that the alleged abductor didn't work or have a connection with the creche?

They turned down a babysitter because they didn''t trust a stranger and didn't want strangers looking after their children, yet, were happy to leave thir children with strangers during the day, the same strangers who babysat at night."


Strange indeed in those circumstances to place their children straight back into the creche however they often emphasised the importance of routine for young children and this was after all a routine established for what, all of 5 days? Perhaps any potential harm resulting from a breach of routine was considered against parental need not to let the children out of their sight or indeed any danger that the abductor was in any way conncted with the creche and found to be the greater risk, therefore into the creche they had to go for their own good.

More disturbingly was their leaving the twins on a regular basis with the Hubbards instead when asked by the OC to keep the twins away as the media were causing too much disruption to other users. I was informed while in PDL in mid July 2007 that this was already an established routine, and this was one of the things which made me start to question the truth of the story as given by the McCs and team. I was quite astounded by this and also the rumours in the village about the undamaged shutters, the jogging and group dining with the large numbers of supporters who'd been drafted in by the family. Some people seemed pretty shocked at the goings on while the searches were still in progress. I was also there when the apartment and villa were being searched by the sniffer dogs but, though aware of police activity knew nothing of what they were doing.

They had of course very quickly become friendly with the Hs but hardly knew them and had only met a few weeks previously and even their new parishoners could not be said to have known them well as the Hs were only recently arrived themselves. The chaplaincy house is located in a quiet side street just off the beach at the Rocha Negra end, directly on the path that leads up to the monument on the cliff top and the garden where the children played was in no way secluded, being separated from the street by only by a chain link fence. None of these things were generally known at that time so this visit was a real eye opener.






Does the chaplaincy house have it's own private area of worship do we know?

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by aiyoyo on 04.02.13 12:26

Hobs wrote
As a matter of interest i would love to hear the 911 call

IIRC someone (maybe Dr Martin or ?) analysed the data and mentioned they did not call 911; which would be the most normal and instinctive thing anyone would do in that kind of emergency. Instead they sent someone (Oldfield?) to the reception to get the receptionist to call the local police station since they claimed they can't speak the language.

What normal person worry about that or even think of that? When you are in a panic state you instinctively pick up the phone dial 911, speak in your language and try to get them to understand or ask for someone who speaks English to come on the line.

But no, the Mccanns did not pick up the phone in their room. Instead they dispatched a third party to the reception.
In their charade they forgot that 911 is there for real emergency! That part of the script was missing.
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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by tigger on 04.02.13 15:36

From the timelines of the 3rd of May


22.50 pm - First call to GNR Lagos precinct (Guarda Nacional Republicana, rural police); The first call to Police Precinct of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) in Lagos, reporting a missing child and asking for Police help was made at 10.50pm. this should be 22.41 but it is after the manager arrives at the office and after the MW procedure has been initiated.

23.00 hrs, OC guest G. McKenzie....saw Gerry McCann telling the person receiving the call that he feared “she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles”He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine.

23.00/23.05 pm - A GNR patrol arrives at Ocean Club (two men).
unquote.

The call was logged at 22.41 at the police H.Q. and probably made by the manager of MW.
The McCanns may have been too busy to phone the police as they were deleting calls from their mobiles, only records of calls made after midnight were found on their mobiles.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Monty Heck on 04.02.13 21:41

Nina Today at 11:14 am

Re the chaplaincy house having its own place of worship, I can't say for certain but seriously doubt that. It looks like a perfectly normal family villa. nothing ostentatious about it at all and the plot it sits on is by no means large.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Nina on 04.02.13 21:54

@Monty Heck wrote: Nina Today at 11:14 am

Re the chaplaincy house having its own place of worship, I can't say for certain but seriously doubt that. It looks like a perfectly normal family villa. nothing ostentatious about it at all and the plot it sits on is by no means large.

Thank you Monty Heck, I was thinking of a blessed corner of a room rather than a chapel as such, just a small place for a few to gather in prayer.

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Inspectorfrost on 04.02.13 22:09

So the Mccanns didnt feel comfortable with leaving their kids with strangers, so they left them to be looked after by a candian priest and his wife who they didnt know from adam, who just turned up in pdl a couple days after maddie went missing,that makes sense.
Must be a faith thing.

One of the problems raised by KMs book is that she said in it perhaps madeleine was drugged during the day on the third of may which can only mean she suspected creche workers but she sent her twins right back there the next day

Logical

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by PeterMac on 05.02.13 8:59

And of course Priests are beyond reproach where children are concerned, aren't they !!

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by saltnpepper on 05.02.13 16:40

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Monty Heck on 05.02.13 20:25

PeterMac Today at 8:59 am




And of course Priests are beyond reproach where children are concerned, aren't they !!

Just to be clear, in my post above I meant nothing dispararaging whatever regarding the Hubbards who always appeared to have acted in a spirit of Christian charity and both seemed very compasionate and caring. It may well have been entirely genuine but somehow did seem rather a useful friendship on one side(apart from the babysitting).

My amazement came from the fact the McCs barely knew the Hs, nobody did as they had just arrived and Peter Mac is right, being a clergyman in and of itself is no guarantee that the person is what it says on the tin, but still that didn't seem any obstacle. It's hard to fathom why any parent would allow their remaining young children out of their sight after their other child had just gone missing, never mind in a creche or with people of so slight acquaintance, no matter what their credentials. Faith in human nature would, one would think, be in short supply for a very long time after such an event but in this case it seemed to be strangely undiminished.

Monty Heck

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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Mirage on 14.02.13 20:25

It’s what Kate was doing in the apartment earlier that evening that interests me.

We know GM and KM took a very tired and pale Madeleine plus twins to the apartment at 5.40pm.

They bathed them early and GM left just before 6pm for the men's social tennis leaving KM to dry the "kids" and put on the twins nappies.

She then took them to the living room where she gave them milk and a biscuit. She adds detail: "Actually, as a very special treat, tonight they had a few crisps as well".

This is the moment she decided it was appropriate to take a quick shower, leaving three little tots in a hard-tiled environment.

In her book on page 67 she tells us:

“While they were looking at their books and playing with their games, I took a quick shower”

This can be placed at around 6.30pm because she notes DP’s arrival at around 6.40pm when she was drying herself off.

She tells DP that she doesn’t need any help taking them to the play area as they are all ready for bed. She had decided they were: “probably past the stage of needing any more activity.”

I thought DP was supposed to be checking if KM was coping ok or needing help to get the children down to the play area. But GM knew the children were dog-tired and already bathed. He knew KM had been obliged to carry Madeleine back to the apartment after high tea because the child was all in. So it defies belief, given the exhausted state of Madeleine, in particular, that they hadn't already agreed, before he went off to tennis, that the children were going to be put to bed early and skip the play. Let's face it, it is not in KM or GM's nature to want to get them wide awake again and give themselves the task of quietening them down in order to slip away.

She goes on to say: "Gerry arrived back promptly at 7pm".

She describes how they all chatted for a while in the living room. Then it was teeth cleaning for all three children. With the later reported shared toothbrush it would have been a prolonged process. Then a bedtime wee wee for Madeleine, followed by a bedtime story. Gerry then came through for goodnight kisses. GM evidently was not with them throughout the teeth and toilet routine because KM specifically says “Gerry came through to say goodnight.”

"Between 7.15 and 7.30pm Gerry took his shower and I went to blow my wayward fringe and put on a bit of make-up."

This time frame is very precise but it is recorded in a sequentially ambiguous way. The implication NOW is that Gerry’s shower was taken BEFORE the goodnight kisses yet, temporally, she links it with to her going to blow-dry the fringe which must be AFTER the children are settled.

So, this 15 to 30 min time frame - from 7pm to 7.15 or 7,30pm - includes all of them chatting "for a while" in the lounge. The palaver of teeth (one shared toothbrush, remember) and toilet. The bedtime story. Gerry, by logical deduction, takes his shower then comes through to help the twins give their big sister a goodnight kiss. The children are put into their various bed/cots followed by the parental goodnight kisses.

This, given the ages of the children, meant that Kate undertook every last detail of childcare at bedtime for three tiny tots while Gerry splashed a bit of water over the children in the bath, went to tennis, checked on Kate via a third party, came back sat on a sofa, had a shower, kissed the children goodnight, drank a glass of wine and went out.

Statement given by KM to the PJ on 4th May 2007 at 2.20pm

“She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.Madeleine and the twins went into the bedroom and were put in their beds at around 7.30. The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm.”

At the end of her statement it says: Reads, confirms, ratifies and signs as does the interpreter.

To sum up: by Kate’s reckoning, she conducted two lots of personal ablutions (a bath and a shower) that took place roughly an hour apart on the evening of 3rd May 2007.

On the subject of this obsession with cleanliness on 3rd May 2007, a day on which she readily agrees some of the routines changed, she volunteers this discrete additional information in a much later statement:

Witness Statement of Kate Marie Healy Statement on 6th September 2007 at 3pm

“She noticed a stain, supposedly of tea, on Madeleine’s pyjama top, which she washed a little later that same morning. She hung it out to dry on a small stand, and it was dry by the afternoon. Madeleine sometimes drank tea; nevertheless the stain did not appear during breakfast, maybe it happened another day, as Madeleine did not have tea the previous night and the stain was dry.”

Reads, confirms, ratifies and signs, as do the interpreter and the defence lawyer.


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Re: What was Kate doing in the apartment ?

Post by Guest on 14.02.13 21:03

And not to forget, Mirage, that DP couldn't remember what Kate was wearing, when he went to check on her and the kids, whereas she said that she quickly wrapped a towel around her when coming out of the shower ....

All of these [unnecessary] inconsistencies kind of convince me [but I cannot be sure, still] that not everything had been rehearsed or even premeditated, as some say.

Apart from that, it is unbelievable that someone would leave three kids under 4 to themselves- in a strange apartment, in a strange country on top - for taking a shower. I sometimes even skip a shower if there's a problem with my doggies .... Good gracious.
These people are unbelievable.
And that is why we are all still here.
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