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Post by bristow on 21.01.13 23:42

@Ribisl wrote:I don't think they (apart from the Paynes) were particularly close to the McCanns. So I cannot believe it was a pact of loyalty among friends. Then what could possibly have been the sequence of events that gave the McCanns enough hold on these intelligent professionals to be able to coerce them to support their version of what happened and even lie to the police? It can't just have been that they'd all left their children unattended, can it? I've always found this truly buffling.

I agree, I think it was the Paynes that were the ones they knew well, not so much the others.

In the book KM writes: (bit long this but there are other interesting snippets in this passage) Lent by my cousin I haven't bought the book.

It was on New Years Day that the idea of a spring holiday in Portugal was first raised. Fiona and David Payne who had come with their children Lily and Scarlet to spend the day with us were planning a weeks break at a Mark Warner resort in the Algarve, probably with two other couples and their families and they asked us if we would like to join them.
We'd been away with Fiona and David on several occasions and we'd always enjoyed ourselves. They favoured the same kind of holidays we did - we've never been interested in swanky hotels, preferring a reputable resort with good sports facilities, and since the arrival of the children, plenty for them to do too.
Gerry and I took the kids everywhere- in fact I'd only been apart from them for one night - so they were used to travelling. They had been on lots of family trips, to Glasgow, Liverpool, Stratford, Skipton, and Crieff, Donegal, Guernsey and Spain and they loved their mini holidays, as we called them, to visit family and friends.
The other couples pencilled in for this trip were Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner and Matt and Rachael Oldfield. Russell and Matt were also Doctors. Jane a marketing manager, was taking a break from work to be a full time mum for a while. Rachael a Lawyer by profession, was working in recruitment.
Although they were all originally friends of Davids and Fionas, we knew them quite well, too - in fact Gerry had worked in the past with both Russell and Matt - so we had no concerns about whether we'd all get along.
I'd never been to Portugal, although Gerry had been there on a couple of golfing trips a few years before.
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Post by Inspectorfrost on 21.01.13 23:48

This so called pact of silence, a phrase used by PT papers translating something that D Payne said about them not talking to the media unless it was through the Mccanns, and them wanting to have some control, I think has been misconstrued. IE Gerry asked all of them to not speak to the media unless it was through him, not that there was some secret they all agreed to hide. Then again...... Why dontgetit

Why would any of the friends incriminate themselves or the Mccanns if their was no foul play? If anything their stories to the media would back up everything that was said to be so.

ETA I forgot to say BS's latest blog is great as it is stating the bleedin obvious. As always.
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Post by aiyoyo on 22.01.13 1:36

Apart from the Paynes who are close friends with the Mccanns, the rest of them albeit known to mccanns (some of them at least) just happened to go on a group holiday with them. If they were not social friends of the mccanns before the holiday, one supposes more so they wouldn't want anything to do with the mccanns after the catastrophic holiday.
I suspect not all of them know the facts. The few who knew were loyal to mccanns. The few who didnt kept their nose out of trouble by leaving it to the mccanns to sort out their own mess.



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Post by PeterMac on 22.01.13 8:58

@Inspectorfrost wrote:This so called pact of silence, a phrase used by PT papers translating something that D Payne said about them not talking to the media unless it was through the Mccanns, and them wanting to have some control, I think has been misconstrued. IE Gerry asked all of them to not speak to the media unless it was through him, not that there was some secret they all agreed to hide. Then again...... Why
Why would any of the friends incriminate themselves or the Mccanns if their was no foul play? If anything their stories to the media would back up everything that was said to be so.

He may have realised the incredible damage the family back home were causing to the official line. People talking on the record about broken shutters, and having it printed across all the papers, people talking frankly, and we assume honestly, about how difficult a child Madeleine was (or HAD BEEN !) how she was a 'real screamer' and so on. Philomena trashing any hope of the reward's producing a result by openly commenting that it would only take one 'greedy and unscrupulous person' to bring Madeleine.
Under those circumstances I am not surprised that K and G tried to control the flow.
None of it would have mattered, of course, if there had merely been the Truth, rather than an official version.

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Post by Nina on 22.01.13 10:13

Could it have been that the men were known to each other and the women, being wives and partners just had to go along with the holiday plans?

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Post by Dr What on 22.01.13 10:22

I agree.Why the need ,at all, to create an official version of the events? A version that is, of course, riddled with inconsisencies.The truth would be all that is usually required.

Some of the group may or may not know all the facts here, and have gone along with the version out of some misplaced loyalty to others, but why would they continually run the risk of being charged with perverting the course of justice? Are they simply in it too deep now to get out of it after all this time.It may be that an offer of immunity from prosecution to some of them is required.
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Post by Guest on 22.01.13 10:22

Here's Jane Tanner's account of how she met the McCanns.

http://madeleinemccannfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/PV4-p919-931-Deposition-Jane-Tanner-10-05-07.html

I read somewhere else that she and Kate attended ante-natal classes together - their children were born only a month apart - but that isn't mentioned here.
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Post by IAmNotMerylStreep on 22.01.13 11:42

@Dr What wrote:I agree.Why the need ,at all, to create an official version of the events? A version that is, of course, riddled with inconsisencies.The truth would be all that is usually required.

Some of the group may or may not know all the facts here, and have gone along with the version out of some misplaced loyalty to others, but why would they continually run the risk of being charged with perverting the course of justice? Are they simply in it too deep now to get out of it after all this time.It may be that an offer of immunity from prosecution to some of them is required.

Apparently the official version of events was conspired in London which sounds to me like 10 Downing Street!

Manuel Catriano: "This story did not begin in the Ocean Club, but in London where the 'official truth' was conspired and established: an English girl was kidnapped in the Algarve."
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Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 12:14

@Dr What wrote:I agree.Why the need ,at all, to create an official version of the events? A version that is, of course, riddled with inconsisencies.The truth would be all that is usually required.

Some of the group may or may not know all the facts here, and have gone along with the version out of some misplaced loyalty to others, but why would they continually run the risk of being charged with perverting the course of justice? Are they simply in it too deep now to get out of it after all this time.It may be that an offer of immunity from prosecution to some of them is required.
It’s a fair summary imho I tend to lean towards that along with your remedy. If it was an accident – and that’s definitely open for debate a combination of fear, persuasion, misguided loyalty etc ropes them in. Unless we are talking of complicity in some other criminal offence, a possibility indicated by the Gasper statement then it’s not conceivable people would cover up anything more than an accident. This doesn’t mean to say it was an accident, merely they thought it was. After the McCanns were arrested there follows a rumour from a lawyer representing two of the T9 that they wish to alter their statement but after the BK/Rothley meeting this never materialises. Then the newspaper libel payout ties them in for good, potentially a whole new set of charges should they wish to cave. They must have been very worried people these five years and more. Very worried indeed....
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Post by PeterMac on 22.01.13 12:22

@monkey mind wrote:They must have been very worried people these five years and more. Very worried indeed....
I certainly hope so. They deserve to have been.
And if they are reading - there is a way out.
Do an "Armstrong".
Trust people to understand, and you may even gain some sympathy for the position in which you were placed.
You will sleep better for it.

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Post by monkey mind on 22.01.13 12:59

@PeterMac wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:They must have been very worried people these five years and more. Very worried indeed....
I certainly hope so. They deserve to have been.
And if they are reading - there is a way out.
Do an "Armstrong".
Trust people to understand, and you may even gain some sympathy for the position in which you were placed.
You will sleep better for it.
Absolutely Peter. There is definitely a way out, but I wouldn’t want to wait to see what the others do there won’t be any deals or understanding left on the table by then. If they thought they were covering up an accident they have to assist the investigation, to sit and wait haunted by worry about what will happen when it all goes tits up as it inevitably will is the alternative and by then there will be no deals on the table. All that will remain will be the finger of accusation and a justice system with little mercy. Their fate really does lie in their own hands now for very shortly we could see free for all of people trying to grab a slice of that Armstrong pie.

First come best served.
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Post by Woofer on 22.01.13 15:53

Good comment on Joana`s blog by poster No. 23 ....

"Reconstruction - shouldn`t that be Reconstructions? For a start there`s three different versions of the time-line ............"

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/01/scotland-yard-in-porto-for-maddie.html?showComment=1358851227851#c930647350887543694
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Post by Eddie on 22.01.13 17:48

another interesting quote from Blacksmith

I had thought to ask the question, would this be the thing that allowed the knot of gold cord to be undone, the box to be opened and the letting out of all evil. But that I cannot do, for evil already walks among us, that evil is Kate and Gerry McCann, and must be said, their acolytes, we must never forget them.
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Post by aiyoyo on 23.01.13 6:48

@Woofer wrote:Good comment on Joana`s blog by poster No. 23 ....

"Reconstruction - shouldn`t that be Reconstructions? For a start there`s three different versions of the time-line ............"

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/01/scotland-yard-in-porto-for-maddie.html?showComment=1358851227851#c930647350887543694

One is enough for the purpose.
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Post by aiyoyo on 23.01.13 6:54

@monkey mind wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@monkey mind wrote:They must have been very worried people these five years and more. Very worried indeed....
I certainly hope so. They deserve to have been.
And if they are reading - there is a way out.
Do an "Armstrong".
Trust people to understand, and you may even gain some sympathy for the position in which you were placed.
You will sleep better for it.
Absolutely Peter. There is definitely a way out, but I wouldn’t want to wait to see what the others do there won’t be any deals or understanding left on the table by then. If they thought they were covering up an accident they have to assist the investigation, to sit and wait haunted by worry about what will happen when it all goes tits up as it inevitably will is the alternative and by then there will be no deals on the table. All that will remain will be the finger of accusation and a justice system with little mercy. Their fate really does lie in their own hands now for very shortly we could see free for all of people trying to grab a slice of that Armstrong pie.

First come best served.

Sure, they're worried. It's written all over their face, eaten alive inside by guilt.

Maybe they will do an "Armstrong" but not before they are arrested and charged, then that might follow (hopefully) - good to free the trapped soul.
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Post by Guest on 23.01.13 13:30

Just a reminder of what the Mccanns wrote about taking Amaral to court as written on their website



16 May 2009: Kate and Gerry McCann and their children to sue Goncalo Amaral

Kate and Gerry McCann - together with their three children - are to sue the former Portuguese police officer Goncalo Amaral over his continuing, grossly defamatory claims that Madeleine is dead and that her parents were somehow involved in concealing their own daughter's body.

In a statement, Kate and Gerry McCann said: "We - together with our three children Madeleine, Sean and Amelie - are taking this legal action against Goncalo Amaral over his entirely unfounded and grossly defamatory claims - made in all types of media, both within Portugal and beyond - that Madeleine is not only dead, but that we, her parents, were somehow involved in concealing her body.

"This decision has been taken to prevent any further publication of Goncalo Amaral's deeply offensive book "The Truth Of The Lie", his so-called television 'documentary' and any repetition of his disgraceful thesis that we are somehow involved in the disappearance of our much loved daughter, Madeleine.

"The primary reason for our legal action is simple: to stop any negative effect that these absurd and deeply hurtful claims may be having on the ongoing search for Madeleine. We can no longer stand back and watch as Mr Amaral tries to convince the entire world that Madeleine is dead. Nor can we allow this blatant injustice to Madeleine, with its obvious risk of hindering our attempts to find her, to continue.

"Mr. Amaral's entirely unjustified claims have not only brought indescribable devastation and suffering to our lives, they have hugely compounded the already immense pain and anxiety we have endured since Madeleine's abduction.

"Our three children are joint complainants in this action because of the detrimental effect Mr Amaral's continued assertions will undoubtedly have on their future lives. Sean and Amelie require protection as they prepare to start school this autumn. Madeleine requires protection from those who are obstructing the possibility of her being found."

http://www.findmadeleine.com/updates/updates@page=3.html
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Post by Guest on 23.01.13 13:31

The very last sentence jumps out at me.

She certainly does, Kate!!

Is it possible to sue oneself?
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Post by monkey mind on 23.01.13 13:57

Jean wrote:The very last sentence jumps out at me.

She certainly does, Kate!!

Is it possible to sue oneself?
big grin high5
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Post by Ollie on 23.01.13 14:11

Moa wrote:Just a reminder of what the Mccanns wrote about taking Amaral to court as written on their website



16 May 2009: Kate and Gerry McCann and their children to sue Goncalo Amaral

Kate and Gerry McCann - together with their three children - are to sue the former Portuguese police officer Goncalo Amaral over his continuing, grossly defamatory claims that Madeleine is dead and that her parents were somehow involved in concealing their own daughter's body.

In a statement, Kate and Gerry McCann said: "We - together with our three children Madeleine, Sean and Amelie - are taking this legal action against Goncalo Amaral over his entirely unfounded and grossly defamatory claims - made in all types of media, both within Portugal and beyond - that Madeleine is not only dead, but that we, her parents, were somehow involved in concealing her body.
Goncalo Amarals claims were founded on evidence - the McCanns claims that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile and now perhaps living happily with a family are totally unfounded
"This decision has been taken to prevent any further publication of Goncalo Amaral's deeply offensive book "The Truth Of The Lie", his so-called television 'documentary' and any repetition of his disgraceful thesis that we are somehow involved in the disappearance of our much loved daughter, Madeleine.

"The primary reason for our legal action is simple: to stop any negative effect that these absurd and deeply hurtful claims may be having on the ongoing search for Madeleine. We can no longer stand back and watch as Mr Amaral tries to convince the entire world that Madeleine is dead. Nor can we allow this blatant injustice to Madeleine, with its obvious risk of hindering our attempts to find her, to continue.
No, course the McCanns couldn't stand back and do nothing, that could of impacted on the donations to the so called fund
"Mr. Amaral's entirely unjustified claims have not only brought indescribable devastation and suffering to our lives, they have hugely compounded the already immense pain and anxiety we have endured since Madeleine's abduction.
If Madeleine was abducted the McCanns were the ones who brought "indescribable devastation and suffering" to their lives by their selfish actions
"Our three children are joint complainants in this action because of the detrimental effect Mr Amaral's continued assertions will undoubtedly have on their future lives. Sean and Amelie require protection as they prepare to start school this autumn. Madeleine requires protection from those who are obstructing the possibility of her being found."Where was the protection the children needed while they were both out eating and drinking, leaving their children alone in an apartment. Madeleine required protection on the holiday but they both failed to provide it. The McCanns and the Tapas 7 obstructed the possibility of finding Madeleine by failing to call the police as soon as they found her missing (allegedly) and then Kate failing to answer all questions put to her by the PJ, failing to do a reconstruction...the list of obstructions by the McCanns is endless.


http://www.findmadeleine.com/updates/updates@page=3.html
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Post by Me on 23.01.13 14:17

Moa wrote:Just a reminder of what the Mccanns wrote about taking Amaral to court as written on their website



16 May 2009: Kate and Gerry McCann and their children to sue Goncalo Amaral

Kate and Gerry McCann - together with their three children - are to sue the former Portuguese police officer Goncalo Amaral over his continuing, grossly defamatory claims that Madeleine is dead and that her parents were somehow involved in concealing their own daughter's body.

In a statement, Kate and Gerry McCann said: "We - together with our three children Madeleine, Sean and Amelie - are taking this legal action against Goncalo Amaral over his entirely unfounded and grossly defamatory claims - made in all types of media, both within Portugal and beyond - that Madeleine is not only dead, but that we, her parents, were somehow involved in concealing her body.

"This decision has been taken to prevent any further publication of Goncalo Amaral's deeply offensive book "The Truth Of The Lie", his so-called television 'documentary' and any repetition of his disgraceful thesis that we are somehow involved in the disappearance of our much loved daughter, Madeleine.

"The primary reason for our legal action is simple: to stop any negative effect that these absurd and deeply hurtful claims may be having on the ongoing search for Madeleine. We can no longer stand back and watch as Mr Amaral tries to convince the entire world that Madeleine is dead. Nor can we allow this blatant injustice to Madeleine, with its obvious risk of hindering our attempts to find her, to continue.

"Mr. Amaral's entirely unjustified claims have not only brought indescribable devastation and suffering to our lives, they have hugely compounded the already immense pain and anxiety we have endured since Madeleine's abduction.

"Our three children are joint complainants in this action because of the detrimental effect Mr Amaral's continued assertions will undoubtedly have on their future lives. Sean and Amelie require protection as they prepare to start school this autumn. Madeleine requires protection from those who are obstructing the possibility of her being found."

http://www.findmadeleine.com/updates/updates@page=3.html

So given that they had his assets frozen at that time they will have known what resources he had to meet their libel demand and given that those assets still remain frozen now, how does the pro's justification for the Mccann's abandoning the suit on cost grounds make any sense?

There's no mention here they will sue him dependent on cost and there's also no mention of this being a monetary issue for them.

So to launch action knowing he had 300,000 euros then and that’s still frozen and sat there today how could the cost of action against potential assets gained if they won be a justification for them to enter into negotiations a week before the trial begins citing extortionate costs and Amaral's lack of assets?

They knew precisely what he had when they sued him and they will have known approximately what the costs would have been.

Had cost been a valid reason now it would have been equally valid and indeed the same when they launched the suit.

Monetary wise, both in terms of costs and Amaral's assets nothing has changed.

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns
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Post by tiny on 23.01.13 17:37

just seen this on twitter.

Dr David Payne ™‏@DodgyDrPayne

Hernani Carvalho on Querida Julia today, talked about trial GA vs #McCann Confirmed it was McCanns who asked for an out of court settlement.
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Post by Guest on 23.01.13 17:58

@tiny wrote:just seen this on twitter.

Dr David Payne ™‏@DodgyDrPayne

Hernani Carvalho on Querida Julia today, talked about trial GA vs #McCann Confirmed it was McCanns who asked for an out of court settlement.

And we are not surprised :) Wonder what the "other side" has to say about that :)
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