Crèche records
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Research and Analysis :: Guests and Ocean Club facilities + Telephone/Creche Records
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Re: Crèche records
Not sure if you have noticed but I'm starting to add interesting bits to the Creche Enquiry thread in the guest section, to draw out as many questions as I can from the other side and answer them as delicately as we legally can, but more importantly to arouse the suspicions of as many other people as possible.
Be sure to stop by and add a comment or two about the phone pings. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Be sure to stop by and add a comment or two about the phone pings. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
I expect you had already noticed this, Stella, but the Tinies (Jellyfish) group creche record for the morning of 3 May has been withheld. Others for that group are missing, too, but I can find a rational explanation for those. Not the morning of 3 May, though, I can't.
I had looked for that particular record for good reason, and the fact that it's withheld makes me think I am on the right lines. Where was Gerry at 1225 that day? I think he was at Casa Liliana, and most of the late afternoon, too.
I had looked for that particular record for good reason, and the fact that it's withheld makes me think I am on the right lines. Where was Gerry at 1225 that day? I think he was at Casa Liliana, and most of the late afternoon, too.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
kikoraton wrote:Where was Gerry at 1225 that day? I think he was at Casa Liliana, and most of the late afternoon, too.
Are you thinking that Madeleine was moved there to a fridge?
____________________
Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: Crèche records
If I'm correct about the handwriting, then Maddie was dead by the night of 28/29 April. We don't know who had the Renault that week, because the car-hire records have a blank period between 12 April and 8 May. Since all weeks either side are "hired", we can assume the car would have been hired for those weeks as well. I imagine that the body would have been taken to a freeze-storage facility at that time, i.e.28/29 April, and that is how the tissue and cadaver scent got into the car, its door, its key etc.
Judging by the amount of mainly landline telephone activity going on (and I'm not forgetting that Gerry and Murat both had their mobiles off for a near-simultaneous 31 hours), I shouldn't be surprised if 3 May was the date when the body was released from the freeze-storage facility and the scene was all set for the "abduction".
But I don't think the freezer was at Casa Liliana.
Judging by the amount of mainly landline telephone activity going on (and I'm not forgetting that Gerry and Murat both had their mobiles off for a near-simultaneous 31 hours), I shouldn't be surprised if 3 May was the date when the body was released from the freeze-storage facility and the scene was all set for the "abduction".
But I don't think the freezer was at Casa Liliana.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
If I am right about Murat's role in all this. "the arranger" of everything from accomodation to entertainment venues. He would be the man who could arrange another property at very short notice. He would have all the contacts and know of several empty properties at that time of the year.
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Could be right, Stella, but my take on it is that Murat is not intelligent enough for all that. I think he was a patsy - i.e. used. House? "No problem, I'll take a witness to the Golf Club for a few pointless hours. That'll free up the house. Mama can be at pilates or yoga that afternoon." Landline? "Goes with the house. Feel free." Mobile? "I'll leave it lying around for 24 hours or so. help yourselves."
Result? Rewarded by lots of pasta!
Result? Rewarded by lots of pasta!
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
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Kiko, I want to keep this off the enquiry thread until I have discussed this with you. Have you noticed that funny Y in Naylor, it's like a number 7. It has been bugging me for a while. I have just started looking at the Berry entries and noticed that the Y at the end of Berry is very similar and if I'm not mistaken the tick on the A in Jessica, is just like the ones Gerry does !!!
I'm starting to wonder if these creche sheets are not the originals. When did the creche staff get shipped off to Greece? Was it before these sheets were handed over to the PJ?
It might explain why am and pm were not on seperate sheets ??
But the A in Jessica has a tick, right ?
ETA image is from the 3rd May
Kiko, I want to keep this off the enquiry thread until I have discussed this with you. Have you noticed that funny Y in Naylor, it's like a number 7. It has been bugging me for a while. I have just started looking at the Berry entries and noticed that the Y at the end of Berry is very similar and if I'm not mistaken the tick on the A in Jessica, is just like the ones Gerry does !!!
I'm starting to wonder if these creche sheets are not the originals. When did the creche staff get shipped off to Greece? Was it before these sheets were handed over to the PJ?
It might explain why am and pm were not on seperate sheets ??
But the A in Jessica has a tick, right ?
ETA image is from the 3rd May
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
But the "G" which begins the apartment number of the Berrys is quite different to Gerry's "G". What I wonder is .....why did so many of the children's entries give incorrect names and have to be started over again/crossed out.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
Yes, the G is different. In fact on first glance all of the writing in general is different, which is why I never looked at it before. But that one odd letter made me look closer at everyone elses.
Why was there so many mistakes, as you said? I know. If you look at the early sheets too, they seem to have neater, more controlled writing than those later on in the week. All very strange.
Why was there so many mistakes, as you said? I know. If you look at the early sheets too, they seem to have neater, more controlled writing than those later on in the week. All very strange.
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Kiko, what do you think about Pat's comment re the creche records?
"As for the creche inquiry and the concept of an earlier time of death: I respect those following up this train of thought as one never knows what might be discovered. I, myself, haven't found an earlier time of death makes sense with the evidence".
Interesting, don't you think? Not one comment on handwriting styles, or Madeleine frequently going to creche at the same time as another little girl. Not even one question on anything !!!
Does she already know? and is not prepared to expand on this right now ??? or is the words "train of thought" an indication that we have only basically just touched the surface in this area?
"As for the creche inquiry and the concept of an earlier time of death: I respect those following up this train of thought as one never knows what might be discovered. I, myself, haven't found an earlier time of death makes sense with the evidence".
Interesting, don't you think? Not one comment on handwriting styles, or Madeleine frequently going to creche at the same time as another little girl. Not even one question on anything !!!
Does she already know? and is not prepared to expand on this right now ??? or is the words "train of thought" an indication that we have only basically just touched the surface in this area?
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
kikoraton wrote:
.....why did so many of the children's entries give incorrect names and have to be started over again/crossed out.
I think what we need is a comprehensive list of questions to highlight these issues.
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
I have done as you suggested, a page back, Stella. Thanks for the idea.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
Oohh [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] There was me thinking you had already done so, which is why she found her way here. But if it was not you, I wonder who/what it was that did ??
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Re: Crèche records
"I, myself, haven't found an earlier time of death makes sense with the evidence."
My view is that Ms Brown has not spent enough time studying all the evidence.
My view is that Ms Brown has not spent enough time studying all the evidence.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
Stella and I seem to have been talking to each other in a closed room, or perhaps it's a padded cell.
Death by indifference?
Death by indifference?
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
Hi kiko,
I read all your and Stella's posts, and am totally in awe of all the research you do. However, I don't have the knowledge that you both have, so feel I can't comment that much without looking a total dipstick
I have forgotten who actually has access to this thread, perhaps Get em could give us a reminder, as to how many can actual view and comment here?
I read all your and Stella's posts, and am totally in awe of all the research you do. However, I don't have the knowledge that you both have, so feel I can't comment that much without looking a total dipstick
I have forgotten who actually has access to this thread, perhaps Get em could give us a reminder, as to how many can actual view and comment here?
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Thanks Jill Quite a small list. Perhaps we could let one or two others in? What do others think, and who would they recommend? Although we don't seem to be discussing anything too much different in here from the Creche Thread that Stella started in the Guest section.
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Actually, ufercoffy and spudgun also have access here.
The list was bigger initially but has reduced over time....
The list was bigger initially but has reduced over time....
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
candyfloss wrote:Thanks Jill [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Quite a small list. Perhaps we could let one or two others in? What do others think, and who would they recommend? Although we don't seem to be discussing anything too much different in here from the Creche Thread that Stella started in the Guest section.
Not a good idea from my point of view. I've just looked back and there are quite a few sensitive issues there that should not go global.
It's one of the reasons I started a new one in the guest section and was posting a bit more diplomatically. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
OK - no need to expand the list. There's some good folk on there. I think I was just feeling grumpy, and frustrated at the lack of new information. I know Stella has something on the back burner that will take time to cook. Let's see how it develops. Sorry!
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Re: Crèche records
I've just noticed from this list, that all of these members of staff are British. It looks like all of their National Insurance numbers and dates of birth are listed. Which should have been blanked out !!! tut, tut.
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Interestingly, the only person missing a NI number is Charlotte Pennington, who I think was born in NZ ?
What makes this document quite interesting, is it gives all of their start dates and end dates. What it does not mention is those staff who were relocated and when. I was looking at which creche staff started just before the McCann's arrived !
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Interestingly, the only person missing a NI number is Charlotte Pennington, who I think was born in NZ ?
What makes this document quite interesting, is it gives all of their start dates and end dates. What it does not mention is those staff who were relocated and when. I was looking at which creche staff started just before the McCann's arrived !
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Working on the basis that Madeleine died very late on the 28th, or just after midnight on the 29th. I thought I would go through all the OC daily lists to see if anyone booked into a room on the 29th/30th, sometime after that 4am phone to Tanner, allowing for travelling from the UK etc., and low and behold, guess whose booking jumps out at you ?
1. Charlotte Gorrod, who is a friend of Tanner arrived on the 30th !!! in room C5C Is that just a coincidence ?
2. Phil Morgan, arrived on the 30th and left on the 3rd, after staying just 4 days !! in room W22D. That was very near to Donald Booker-Milburn, right on the waters edge..
1. Charlotte Gorrod, who is a friend of Tanner arrived on the 30th !!! in room C5C Is that just a coincidence ?
2. Phil Morgan, arrived on the 30th and left on the 3rd, after staying just 4 days !! in room W22D. That was very near to Donald Booker-Milburn, right on the waters edge..
Guest- Guest
Re: Crèche records
Anyone else of interest in Block C, Stella? Well observed!! Charlotte Gorrod from Exeter, Tanner's mate who "just happened to be staying at the same place"!
Jane Tanner had three mobile contacts with unknown persons - at least, the PJ may know with whom, but we don't:
29 April 0412
30 April 1831, 2041
Then as follows:
3 May texted Gorrod at 2030
4 May 0904 texted Gorrod
Tanner explained to the police that the 3 May text was to arrange a barbecue on the following day. On 4 May, no doubt to text about Maddie. But Gorrod said she had left her mobile in Exeter and therefore didn't receive them.
Jane Tanner had three mobile contacts with unknown persons - at least, the PJ may know with whom, but we don't:
29 April 0412
30 April 1831, 2041
Then as follows:
3 May texted Gorrod at 2030
4 May 0904 texted Gorrod
Tanner explained to the police that the 3 May text was to arrange a barbecue on the following day. On 4 May, no doubt to text about Maddie. But Gorrod said she had left her mobile in Exeter and therefore didn't receive them.
kikoraton- Researcher
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Re: Crèche records
Yes, very well spotted Stella
Why would Tanner need to send texts when she was so close by? Surely if she was a friend she would have just popped over? It seems a little odd. How far apart were the apartments?
Why would Tanner need to send texts when she was so close by? Surely if she was a friend she would have just popped over? It seems a little odd. How far apart were the apartments?
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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Research and Analysis :: Guests and Ocean Club facilities + Telephone/Creche Records
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