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What time was the alarm raised?

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What time was the alarm raised?

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 12.03.10 18:26

Apologies to any members who read this when I posted it on MM, but it is one of the many things about this case which bugs me.

The Tapas group all say Kate left the table at 10pm to do her check. She had to walk to the apartment where she says she found Madeleine missing. She did a search of the apartment before returning to the Tapas Bar to raise the alarm, so we can conclude that, according to the parents and their friends, the alarm was raised a few minutes after 10pm. Although not all of them had their watches on, according to Clarence Mitchell, not one of them puts Kate returning before 10pm, so why should several independent witnesses place the time when the alarm was raised as being before 10pm?
Helder Luis was the Receptionist on duty on the evening of the 3rd May. In his statement to the police he says that he was told that a child had disappeared at around 9.30pm.
Stephen Carpenter, in his statement to Leicestershire Police says he and his wife left the Tapas Bar around 9.15pm. The Tapas group were at their table, though he could not recall if anyone was missing from the group. On their way back to their apartment, his wife heard someone calling "Madeleine Madeleine", but thought nothing of it until the following morning, when they hear that Madeleine had disappeared.
Chef Arlindo Peleja was on duty in the kitchen on the evening of the 3rd May. He states that around 21.20hrs he heard a "clamour" and was told that a child had disappeared.
Barman Jeronimo Rodrigues Salcedas made two statements to the police. In his first statement of the 6th May he says that around 10.20 to 10.30pm he noticed Diane Webster sitting at the table on her own. Gerry McCann was searching the bushes around the pool area. However, when interviewed by Leicestershire Police on the 23rd April 2008, he describes the same scenario but places the time at 21.30 to 22.00hrs. Why was this witness interviewed twice? Was it to check his timings, given the statements of other witnesses, or was it to confirm that Gerry McCann was searching the bushes around the pool area? Why would Gerry McCann be doing this? Even if Madeleine had woke and wandered, she could not have accessed the Ocean Complex without a swipe card to open the door between Reception and the pool area. No witness has come forward to say they opened the door for a small child dressed only in pyjamas and then allowed her to wander off around the swimming pools in the dark.
Finally, we have the evidence of the Smith family. Now, they were keeping an eye on the time that night because their son was returning to Ireland the next morning and had to be up early, so they did not want a late night. Martin Smith, who later identified Gerry McCann as the person he saw carrying a child in the direction of the beach, says the family left Kellys Bar at 9.55pm. Mrs Smith says it was 10pm.

All these statements can be read in the files.

Given that all the times in the statements from everyone, including the Tapas group, are approximate, is it not strange that the Tapas times are all after 10pm, while all the independent witnesses are anything from 9.15pm to 10pm?
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Guest on 12.03.10 19:24

Doesn't make sense does it? I would like to think that the waiters and other independant witnesses have no reason to lie. They have no motive to do so, but the tapas members all stick to the same story that KM left around 10 pm to do her check. Who do you believe? That is of course why, the PJ wanted a reconstruction, so that things were made clearer. They would be able to establish, by the independant witness movements exactly what time the commotion started. The staff would be clear on their timelines because some of them were just coming off shift etc., and would be sure of their times. Having the tapas lot do a reconstruction would show up a lot of flaws, people up and down like blue arsed flies. No wonder they didn't want to do it!!!!!!!

Does anyone remember just after Madeleine disappeared, there was a service at the local church in Rothley, and the congregation said prayers and lit a candle at 9.15pm the time that Madeleine disappeared. It was reported in all the papers at the time, I can't remember if it was on TV. Can anyone remember. I am looking for the articles, but can't find any, but will keep trying.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Guest on 12.03.10 19:30

candyfloss wrote:Doesn't make sense does it? I would like to think that the waiters and other independant witnesses have no reason to lie. They have no motive to do so, but the tapas members all stick to the same story that KM left around 10 pm to do her check. Who do you believe? That is of course why, the PJ wanted a reconstruction, so that things were made clearer. They would be able to establish, by the independant witness movements exactly what time the commotion started. The staff would be clear on their timelines because some of them were just coming off shift etc., and would be sure of their times. Having the tapas lot do a reconstruction would show up a lot of flaws, people up and down like blue arsed flies. No wonder they didn't want to do it!!!!!!!

Does anyone remember just after Madeleine disappeared, there was a service at the local church in Rothley, and the congregation said prayers and lit a candle at 9.15pm the time that Madeleine disappeared. It was reported in all the papers at the time, I can't remember if it was on TV. Can anyone remember. I am looking for the articles, but can't find any, but will keep trying.


Found this - thanks to the Mccannfiles (should have looked there first!)


One year on: Light a candle for missing Madeleine McCann, 03 May 2008
One year on: Light a candle for missing Madeleine McCann Daily Mirror

Exclusive by Martin Fricker
03/05/2008

It is exactly one year from that terrible moment when Kate McCann discovered her daughter Madeleine missing from bed.

The anguished mum and husband Gerry are asking everyone to mark the anniversary at 9.15pm by lighting a candle and praying for their four-year-old's safe return.

The McCanns, both 40, believe Madeleine was abducted from their holiday flat at that time.

And well-wishers who light their flame, shine a torch or turn on a porch light between that time and 10pm tonight will touch their hearts.

Kate said yesterday: "Lighting a candle or lantern is a lovely idea.

"We are grateful to everyone who chooses to remember Madeleine at this time." The GP has been dreading the anniversary and added: "It's a difficult day. I think we had underestimated it a little bit. It is probably more significant than we had felt.

"I don't think we'll know until the morning really what feels right."

Tonight Everton, Madeleine's favourite football club, will switch on its floodlights at 9.30pm. A picture of the missing four-year-old shows her in the team's kit.

In the McCanns' home village of Rothley, Leics, candles will be lit in a hotel's grounds. The Helping to Find Madeleine group will release paper lanterns into the sky over the county.

Madeleine's grandmother, Susan Healy, will light a candle at home in Allerton, Liverpool. She said: "We know a lot of people will want to light up the sky for Madeleine. We'll do that in our garden and hope others will do the same ."

The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, has kept a candle burning for Madeleine for the last year and has written a special prayer, below, for the anniversary. Kate and Gerry, who remain official suspects in the case, will mark the day privately at home after church.

In Praia da Luz, Portugal - the resort from which Madeleine disappeared - a special service will be held at the church where the parents used to pray daily.

It is titled A Service of Hope, 365 Days Too Long, Madeleine McCann, We Want You Home. Gerry's brother, John, and other relatives will attend the vigil.

Kate has written a message of hope.

Priest Haynes Hubbard, who will lead the service, said: "There are no answers.

"Until Madeleine comes home, all we can do is hold hands, weep and pray."


I have highlighted the time in bold.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Guest on 12.03.10 19:33

Madeleine: Thank you for all your support, says Kate in church as McCanns mark first anniversary of disappearance, 03 May 2008
Madeleine: Thank you for all your support, says Kate in church as McCanns mark first anniversary of disappearance Daily Mail

Last updated at 15:55pm on 3rd May 2008

Kate McCann thanked her local community for their support today during a church service to mark the anniversary of their daughter Madeleine's disappearance.

Mrs McCann stood up during the 30-minute service at the Anglican parish church of St Mary and St John, in Rothley, Leicestershire, and expressed her gratitude to the congregation.

She thanked everyone for praying for the four-year-old and for supporting the family over the year since she vanished in Portugal.

Mrs McCann and her husband Gerry left holding hands and clutching bunches of flowers.

Led by the Reverend Rob Gladstone, prayers were said for Madeleine and for other missing children during the special service.

Speaking afterwards on behalf of the family, Madeleine's great uncle, Brian Kennedy, said: "We would like to thank all the members of the churches here in Rothley and also those who are of no particular church for joining us today to remember the world's missing children and especially, of course, our own Madeleine.

"This is a difficult week and we have had many kind messages from residents here and from around the country which have been a great help.

"We have invited people of all the many faiths here to pray for these children and their families in their own places of worship on the various days they keep and we would like them to know how much their prayers are appreciated."

He described the service as "uplifting" and said he thought it had been helpful and comforting to Kate and Gerry.

Mr Kennedy's wife, Janet, said: "We wanted it to be a service not just for Madeleine but for missing children all over the world."

Speaking about Kate's decision to speak in the church, she said: "I am not sure how she mustered the strength to do so." But she added that the service " was a great comfort to them both".

Ministers from a number of churches joined in the service today.

The same prayer said at the service for Madeleine six months after her disappearance was repeated again today, and a poem about courage was read.

Leaflets were also given out at the service explaining how to help the McCanns campaign for an EU-wide child alert system.

Well-wishers from all over the local area, and further afield, gathered at the church today.

Connor Ward cycled from his home in Northern Ireland to Rothley to be at the service, and to raise awareness of the search for Madeleine.

Mr Ward said: "The service was very moving. It was quite emotional for everyone."

Speaking about Kate, he said: "She seemed very strong. I am very surprised that she spoke but it was brilliant that she did."

Supporters around the world will tonight mark the first anniversary of her disappearance by lighting candles and saying prayers.

The little girl vanished from her bed in her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, southern Portugal, at around 9.15pm on May 3 last year.

People are being asked to light candles, shine torches or turn on a porch lamp between 9.30pm and 10pm tonight to symbolise the period when she went missing.

Everton, Madeleine's favourite football team, will join the campaign to "light the way home" for the little girl by switching on the floodlights at its Goodison Park ground at this time.

Everton's chief executive, Keith Wyness, said: "The message being sent out is a simple one. The search must go on."

Their lawyers have advised Mr and Mrs McCann not to return to Portugal because they remain arguidos, or formal suspects, in their daughter's disappearance.

Instead a number of relatives - Mr McCann's brother John, his sister Trish Cameron, her husband Sandy, and Mrs McCann's cousin Michael Wright - have travelled to Praia da Luz on their behalf.

John McCann said the trauma of their time in Praia da Luz had also persuaded Madeleine's parents to stay in England.

"Gerry and Kate under ideal circumstances would have been here, but they have had a very busy schedule this week and they felt that given the day that it is, they would take a quiet time and spend time with Sean and Amelie and with a very close group of friends around their home."

He added: "They had a lovely holiday until Madeleine was taken.

"They had fantastic support from the people of Luz and from many different parts of Portugal.

"And yet associated with Praia da Luz is a lot of pain, a lot of emotional turmoil, and it is a hard time for them.

"On the balance of things they thought the best thing to do was to stay at home and look after the two children that remain with them."

They were attending a service in the Algarve village's church of Nossa Senhora da Luz (Our Lady of Light) at 6.30pm tonight, where a message from Mrs McCann will be read out.

A special mass at Liverpool's Our Lady of the Annunciation church was being led by Father Paul Seddon, who married the McCanns and baptised Madeleine.

Portugal's top detective insisted today that police were still gathering evidence in the case following reports that officers were on the verge of exonerating the McCanns.

Alipio Ribeiro, national director of the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), told Portugal's Lusa news agency that officials had not decided whether to bring charges or drop the investigation.

He said: "At this stage nothing has been determined regarding possible charges or closing the case.

"The PJ continues to gather and analyse all available evidence."

The Portuguese weekly magazine Expresso reported on its website that the PJ were preparing to drop the accusations against the McCanns.

Madeleine was three when she vanished from the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz while her parents dined with friends at a nearby tapas restaurant.

Today's anniversary has attracted words of support from senior clergy and experts in missing people.

The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, wrote a special prayer for Madeleine McCann and urged everyone to redouble their efforts to pray
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Guest on 12.03.10 19:35

Light her way home The People

Missing for a year: Britain, Portugal and world unite in hope

'You are a light that shines in the darkest times. Guide all who search for Madeleine'

By Rachael Bletchley in Praia da Luz
04 May 2008

The sunrise over Praia da Luz was as beautiful as ever yesterday.

A warm, orange glow spread up from the horizon then burst into the dazzling rays that give the resort its name - Beach of Light.

A year ago an excited little girl woke to a May morning just like this, the start of another day of swimming, making sandcastles and holiday fun.

But 14 hours later, at 9.15pm on May 3 2007, the blonde three-year-old was carried off into the night - and all light vanished from the lives of Kate and Gerry McCann.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 12.03.10 19:47

The many discrepencies regarding times have bugged me too justagran, I hadn't realized until your post that all the independant witness times are before 10 pm. wheras the tapas times are after 10pm.
There seem to be so many differences in the timescale, it just does not add up. A lady said in her witness statement that she heard someone calling 'Madeleine, Madeleine' at 9.15, yet according to their handwritten timeline everything was supposedly fine around that time.
A member of staff in the tapas said the table where they had been seated was empty at 9.40 but the person who wrote the timeline said that members of the group were still eating and checking.

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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 12.03.10 19:59

Good find candyfloss thumbsup
How strange, yet by their own hand-written timeline all was well at 9.15!
Imagine the confusion if they had returned for a reconstruction, it would have been like a Brian Rix farce! What a shame they weren't forced to do a reconstruction before they fled - maybe under Portuguese law they could still have refused. None it seems to make much sense and we can only hope that the investigation will be re-opened soon. It is clear from the many discrepencies in the times alone that people are lying.

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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Guest on 12.03.10 20:13

Very strange how the story morphed from 9.15 too 10 pm isn't it. How would all those papers get it so wrong.But they weren't wrong because that is the time the services were held, and candles lit, and light turned on at Everton football ground. They must have got the information from a credible source, ie the PJ (most probably) or the McCann family. This is an important fact, probably THE most important in the investigation, and yet it was later changed. I personally think the answer is right before our eyes, and we have all been looking at 10pm, when in fact things were happening much earlier.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 12.03.10 20:28

I think initially when they were drawing up their timeline they had intended to allow plenty of time for an abduction but things were changed because of the Smith sighting which forced them to add the Jane Tanner sighting.

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Thoughts on the 'alarm' timeline

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.03.10 20:30

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Apologies to any members who read this when I posted it on MM, but it is one of the many things about this case which bugs me.

The Tapas group all say Kate left the table at 10pm to do her check. She had to walk to the apartment where she says she found Madeleine missing. She did a search of the apartment before returning to the Tapas Bar to raise the alarm, so we can conclude that, according to the parents and their friends, the alarm was raised a few minutes after 10pm. Although not all of them had their watches on, according to Clarence Mitchell, not one of them puts Kate returning before 10pm, so why should several independent witnesses place the time when the alarm was raised as being before 10pm?
Helder Luis was the Receptionist on duty on the evening of the 3rd May. In his statement to the police he says that he was told that a child had disappeared at around 9.30pm.
Stephen Carpenter, in his statement to Leicestershire Police says he and his wife left the Tapas Bar around 9.15pm. The Tapas group were at their table, though he could not recall if anyone was missing from the group. On their way back to their apartment, his wife heard someone calling "Madeleine Madeleine", but thought nothing of it until the following morning, when they hear that Madeleine had disappeared.
Chef Arlindo Peleja was on duty in the kitchen on the evening of the 3rd May. He states that around 21.20hrs he heard a "clamour" and was told that a child had disappeared.
Barman Jeronimo Rodrigues Salcedas made two statements to the police. In his first statement of the 6th May he says that around 10.20 to 10.30pm he noticed Diane Webster sitting at the table on her own. Gerry McCann was searching the bushes around the pool area. However, when interviewed by Leicestershire Police on the 23rd April 2008, he describes the same scenario but places the time at 21.30 to 22.00hrs. Why was this witness interviewed twice? Was it to check his timings, given the statements of other witnesses, or was it to confirm that Gerry McCann was searching the bushes around the pool area? Why would Gerry McCann be doing this? Even if Madeleine had woke and wandered, she could not have accessed the Ocean Complex without a swipe card to open the door between Reception and the pool area. No witness has come forward to say they opened the door for a small child dressed only in pyjamas and then allowed her to wander off around the swimming pools in the dark.
Finally, we have the evidence of the Smith family. Now, they were keeping an eye on the time that night because their son was returning to Ireland the next morning and had to be up early, so they did not want a late night. Martin Smith, who later identified Gerry McCann as the person he saw carrying a child in the direction of the beach, says the family left Kellys Bar at 9.55pm. Mrs Smith says it was 10pm.

All these statements can be read in the files.

Given that all the times in the statements from everyone, including the Tapas group, are approximate, is it not strange that the Tapas times are all after 10pm, while all the independent witnesses are anything from 9.15pm to 10pm?
I've never done a full analysis of all the statements around the time was raised but would offer a few brief observations:

First, the statement from manager John Hill:

With regard to the facts of the investigation. Statements show that he knew of these facts by means of a phone call from Lindsay, head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to the deponent’s mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later the deponent presented himself at the resort, because Lindsay had told him that she had initiated the procedure for missing children used by the company and the child had not been found. Upon arriving at the scene he saw about 100 people, employees, guests and residents searching the grounds, the beach and adjoining areas calling out the child’s name.

I conclude from the reference to 'about 100 people' that the alarm had been raised well before the call to John Hill which he says was at 10.28pm.

Next I would point out that it is by no means clear who 'raised the alarm' and from where.

Kate running down to the table?

Kate from the balcony?

Someone else?

Then I come to this statement from Jeronimo Rodrigues Salcedas (though with a caution as it was a Rogatory interview carried out in April 2008:

On the night Madeleine disappeared, everything appeared normal. I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues ?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: They've left you alone? She responded more or less with these words: No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man, who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Millenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

I went to find Ze and Ricardo to give them the news and to get their help in searching for the missing girl. I saw the head of the Millenium Restaurant in the Tapas and asked him to telephone the restaurant.

I ran out of the Tapas and noticed that some of the childcare workers of the Mark Warner had begun to arrive. At the point I left the Tapas I heard a scream from a woman I did not know. I do not know who screamed, but I had never heard a similar cry. I cannot even describe it but thought it had come from the child's mother. I went to the reception with one of the child care workers whose name I do not remember. One of the employees looked to be organizing the searches and told us the name of the child.


According to this witness, there is this sequence of events:

All 9 at the table

Only DW at the table

Conversation with DW

Saw GMcC running around

Spoke to GMcC

GMcC running around again while waiter speaks to Millenium bloke

Ran out of Tapas bar

Child care staff arriving

Heard a terrible scream.

These events seem to have taken place before 10.00pm on his account and looking at the other accounts.

As far as I know, no-one actually saw Kate running down to the Tapas bar and I can't recollect any waiter actually saying they saw her come to the table and then the Tapas 7 all leaving the table (as was illustrated in one of the reconstructions).

My provisional view is that some kind of 'alert' was sounded by Kate (or possibly someone else) who was away from the table, So far as I am aware, neither Kate nor anyone else was seen by anyone to run to the table saying 'Madeleine is missing'.

I'll happily re-visit the thread on these matters if the discussion develops.

By the way, I don't attach much significance to Mrs Carpenter saying she heard someone saying 'Madeleine, Madeleine' at about 9.15pm. She is pretty vague about it if you look at her statement
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 12.03.10 20:36

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic4397.html

A Timeline based on staff and GNR Statements and ignoring the Tapas group. - posted by Brit Abraod.


20.30 SC (tourist) states the Tapas group of about 10 people were all seated at table by 8.30.

21.10 AP (exec.chef) arrives at Tapas, sees dark blue car parked outside.
AP enters restaurant passing table occupied by three couples.

21.15/21.30 SC and family leave restaurant and return to own apartment. Wife hears someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine" just after crossing road outside Tapas.

21.20 AP (head chef) while inside restaurant hears some clamour, is told that a child has disappeared.
JRS (fitness instr./waiter) goes outside, speals to DW who is sitting alone at the table.

21.30/22.00 JRS (Waiter) speaks briefly to GM who has run back to pool area searching. Shortly after JRS hears a woman scream.

21.30/22.00 Helder (OC reception) is informed by Tapas staff member that child is missing.

21.40 AP leaves restaurant, notices table outside is now empty except for some belongings. Blue car has gone.

21.55 Smiths (tourists) leave Kelly's Bar.

22.00 Smiths pass man carrying a child.

22.00/22.15 VMS (Accom.Manager) receives a phone call from the reception, Helder tells him that John Hill extremely agitated as a child has disappeared and GNR have been contacted several times but have not arrived yet.

22.00 approx MdeFdeSF (table worker Millenium restaurant) "That she had knowledge of the missing child, on the night of her disappearance, shortly after 22H00, when various people went to the Millennium restaurant, to and asked whether they had seen her as the parents had realised her disappearance and that the authorities had been alerted. Many people were already looking for her in the area".

22.00 MJdosSR (Bar chief, Millenium Restaurant) English tourist arrived at the Millenium restaurant to ask whether anyone had seen a lost little girl.

22.15 GRC (Manager) contacted at home in Lagos by John Hill who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the “procedure for missing child”

22.15 (about) JMW (Preschool teacher) was working at the Mini Club, at the “dinner time period” when a female tells her that a child called "Maddie" is missing and she is needed for search

22.17 ELK (Manager) receives phone call from LJ (Creche Manager) informing re missing child.

22.28 John Hill (MW Manager) says he was informed by LJ (Creche Manager) that child missing.

22.30 SB (Manager) informed by telephone that child is missing.

22.35 (approx) Hill arrives at resort to see "about 100" people searching grounds, beach, etc

22.15/22.30 VMS arrives at reception to find GNR have arrived and are taking statement from GM.
(John Hill states that he thinks "GNR arrived at about 22.45")

23.00 (approx) Roque (GNR) + colleague state they are first officers to arrive.

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A statement from Mrs Fenn

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.03.10 20:55

@Autumn wrote:http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic4397.html

A Timeline based on staff and GNR Statements and ignoring the Tapas group. - posted by Brit Abraod.

20.30 SC (tourist) states the Tapas group of about 10 people were all seated at table by 8.30.

REST SNIPPED
That's useful.

I wonder if I might add Pamela Fenn's statement at this point (not menioned in Brit Abroad's timeline) and underline a few points of interest:

On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCanns apartment, a situation which has been told to the police, her cousin even made a photo fit.

During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out 'we have let her down' which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs Fenn asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.

She said that after the mother's shouts, she had seen many people in the streets looking for the girl. She also refers to an episode when Gerry was speaking to a policeman and he refused to recognise the police force, saying that more agents of authority were needed to carry out the search.

When asked, she replied that on 3rd May she did not hear any noise from the McCann apartment, not even the opening of doors. She also said that before hearing the shouts she was watching television, as she often stays up late.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 13.03.10 7:41

See, that is the advantage of being able to have a sensible discussion on a forum thumbsup

All my media information comes from TV and online newspapers. I can't curl up with a cup of tea and a "real" newspaper so when the information, or disinformation is being churned out thick and fast, there is a lot I miss. I remember the church services, ( I think the parents turned up in jeans to one of them) but had missed the significance of the 9.15pm bit.

So it looks as though the abduction was planned for earlier but had to be brought forward because of the Smith sighting. If the man carrying the child to the beach hadn't been Gerry, presumably the group wouldn't have known they needed to change the timeline to 10pm. The change would also account for Jane Tanners delayed reporting of a man carrying what might have been a child wrapped a blanket, which gradually morphed into a child wearing pinky aspect pyjamas with a small white flower pattern. It could also be why the Smith sighting has been ignored by the McCanns, yet they protest loud and clear about the "credible" sightings the PJ have failed to follow up.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 13.03.10 14:24

Have to say, I have learnt one or two things about the case on this thread alone and it was interesting to re-visit the Church service, along with Mrs Fenn's observations, which I had long forgotten.
Had the 'pros' been here we would have, by now, been wasting time fending off the tiremsome 'parent-bashing' allegations against us.
Now, we have time to look in more depth at some of the issues involved and, if this thread alone is anything to go by, I look forward to that without the constant bickering and disruption that has stifled all debate here in the past.

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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by littlepixie on 13.03.10 18:06

I still think "we have let her down" is a weird thing for Kate to have said. She is "dead scouse" when not putting on her TV interview voice.
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Re: What time was the alarm raised?

Post by Autumn on 14.03.10 1:25

As Mrs Fenn was close by when she heard Kate shouting repeatedly 'we'v let her down' I would say that she is a reliable witness. I'v often wondered what Kate meant and suggests that she knew something bad was going to happen to Madeleine.
At what point did Kate say 'they've taken her' and didn't she later on deny saying that and insistedt that she had shouted 'she's gone'?

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McCanns apt & hire car


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dismissed by UK Government


Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

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Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

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