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There are always signs when you look back

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There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 18:44

When I was 8 yr old I wakened, around 8.00a.m. to the voice of my (adopted) brother in the kitchen with my mum. I got up and went through to the kitchen when he was saying to my mum, She's done a bunk. He was crying and extremely upset at that point. He asked my mum to go round and light the fire every day and she took me with her. My interest at that point was her make up and perfume. My bro applied for constant nightshift soon after he very quickly became alcohol dependant (he missed Mondays and sometimes Tuesdays at his work)

It's too a long story to post here but I have memories of him taking me and his son to fish for Daphne, for the fish tank and disappearing for ages (on the short road to the police station)

Fast forward to the day I came home from hospital with my daughter and my dad turned up to tell me that Jeanette's body had been found in the house.

As I know now it was a freak accident, if slapping someone can be called that, as it was proven in Pathology she had an exceptionally thin part of the skull.

Now, the reason for posting this is that he changed almost overnight. They say your hair can go grey overnight with a shock and his did. I was playing the Elvis song ' Are you lonesome tonight' and he started crying and told me he was the way he was because of Jeanette.

This is the reason my head can't get round TM story of what happened. With my bro it's easy to look back in hindsight and see the signs of a person disintegrating because of an act but I can see no signs of remorse or regret in this case.

As an aside my brother was a Mason and at the trial it was reduced to Culpible Homicide, backdated to when he was taken into custody. He w. as given 15 months!!!! One month for every year he hid her body in the carpet. When he was jailed he gave the handshake to the warder and the warder's words were ' oh, a fellow brother fallen by the wayside' He was given the cushiest job in jail at that point.

I maybe should say at this point that bodies don't always decompose in the same manner. He was a 22 yr old and faced with a dead wife. He sat with her all night then decided to wrap her in a rug as he didn't want to lose his baby son. When she was eventually found (by another family member he subletted to) she was extremely mummified. I don't want to go into details here as it is still upsetting and after my bro did his 15 months sentence he commited suicide

Cannot get my head round TM, whether it be an accident or deliberate there should be some signs of emotion and there are none!!!!

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 19:16

@cath2756 wrote:When I was 8 yr old I wakened, around 8.00a.m. to the voice of my (adopted) brother in the kitchen with my mum. I got up and went through to the kitchen when he was saying to my mum, She's done a bunk. He was crying and extremely upset at that point. He asked my mum to go round and light the fire every day and she took me with her. My interest at that point was her make up and perfume. My bro applied for constant nightshift soon after he very quickly became alcohol dependant (he missed Mondays and sometimes Tuesdays at his work)

It's too a long story to post here but I have memories of him taking me and his son to fish for Daphne, for the fish tank and disappearing for ages (on the short road to the police station)

Fast forward to the day I came home from hospital with my daughter and my dad turned up to tell me that Jeanette's body had been found in the house.

As I know now it was a freak accident, if slapping someone can be called that, as it was proven in Pathology she had an exceptionally thin part of the skull.

Now, the reason for posting this is that he changed almost overnight. They say your hair can go grey overnight with a shock and his did. I was playing the Elvis song ' Are you lonesome tonight' and he started crying and told me he was the way he was because of Jeanette.

This is the reason my head can't get round TM story of what happened. With my bro it's easy to look back in hindsight and see the signs of a person disintegrating because of an act but I can see no signs of remorse or regret in this case.

As an aside my brother was a Mason and at the trial it was reduced to Culpible Homicide, backdated to when he was taken into custody. He w. as given 15 months!!!! One month for every year he hid her body in the carpet. When he was jailed he gave the handshake to the warder and the warder's words were ' oh, a fellow brother fallen by the wayside' He was given the cushiest job in jail at that point.

I maybe should say at this point that bodies don't always decompose in the same manner. He was a 22 yr old and faced with a dead wife. He sat with her all night then decided to wrap her in a rug as he didn't want to lose his baby son. When she was eventually found (by another family member he subletted to) she was extremely mummified. I don't want to go into details here as it is still upsetting and after my bro did his 15 months sentence he commited suicide

Cannot get my head round TM, whether it be an accident or deliberate there should be some signs of emotion and there are none!!!!

Note Jeanette's dad said at the time there should have been dogs brought in and this is away back to 1980 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19810313&id=mP49AAAAIBAJ&sjid=ZUkMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1772,2686970

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 19:58

I can understand nobody wanting to reply to this thread but please feel free, no matter what your obsevations may be. In no way will I be offended. The purpose of it was that I have been in a situation where all our family believed for 15 yr that his wife had left him and his Masonic handshake gave him 15 month's in jail (backdated to when he was first taken into custody) Looking back, he changed, big style, and the same cannot be said for TM. Also, he hid her body and family members walked in and out of the house from day one. It was never any intention on his part but she ended up being mummified. Decomposition takes on many levels

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by Nina on 15.10.12 20:05

Hi cath2756, very interesting about mummification. May I ask was Jeanette a very thin lady can you remember?

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 20:20

@Nina wrote:Hi cath2756, very interesting about mummification. May I ask was Jeanette a very thin lady can you remember?

First of all, thanks for replying Nina as I worried that I had gone too far. Yes, Jeanette was very thin. Does that have relevance? Timeline, as we learned in 1980, was argument broke out, she fell over coffee table, he tried to revive her with a damp face cloth. Nothing worked so panicked and wrapped her body in a carpet. From the very next day I was taken to the house by my mum and nothing was out of place - no smell or anything

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by saltnpepper on 15.10.12 20:21

Maybe your brother had a guilty conscience & never removed the body from the house to feel closer?even if you believe the McCanns version & they show no signs as you say,the question should be,shouldn't they? as if the abduction was true,they were still the biggest factor...in leaving Madeleine alone,Kate even felt uneasy pre holiday...they were given a warning by Madeleine that she & her brother woke the previous night & Kate told Fiona of her concerns whilst downing wine & sardines at the tapas May 3rd
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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by Nina on 15.10.12 20:39

@cath2756 wrote:
@Nina wrote:Hi cath2756, very interesting about mummification. May I ask was Jeanette a very thin lady can you remember?

First of all, thanks for replying Nina as I worried that I had gone too far. Yes, Jeanette was very thin. Does that have relevance? Timeline, as we learned in 1980, was argument broke out, she fell over coffee table, he tried to revive her with a damp face cloth. Nothing worked so panicked and wrapped her body in a carpet. From the very next day I was taken to the house by my mum and nothing was out of place - no smell or anything

I think it may do as there is little body mass to decompose, though this starts inside the body in the organs, the first place if I recall my reading on the subject is the digestive tract.

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 21:08

@Nina wrote:
@cath2756 wrote:
@Nina wrote:Hi cath2756, very interesting about mummification. May I ask was Jeanette a very thin lady can you remember?

First of all, thanks for replying Nina as I worried that I had gone too far. Yes, Jeanette was very thin. Does that have relevance? Timeline, as we learned in 1980, was argument broke out, she fell over coffee table, he tried to revive her with a damp face cloth. Nothing worked so panicked and wrapped her body in a carpet. From the very next day I was taken to the house by my mum and nothing was out of place - no smell or anything

I think it may do as there is little body mass to decompose, though this starts inside the body in the organs, the first place if I recall my reading on the subject is the digestive tract.

The whole thing still gives me nightmares. What I know is that he sublet the house to my cousin and told him ' don't go in the cupboard at the front door but if you do don't throw anything out' Danny, cousin, did go into the cupboard and took the rolled up carpet, amongst other things, into the living room then went to search for John. He couldn't find him but came back to his dog having sniffed into the carpet. The other details of what happened next are memories of the event from Danny's viewpoint and to be quite honest the unfolding tale of what happened is something I don't want to talk about as it is very harrowing.

All I know from what Danny found and subsequent forensic reports was she was mummified, very long red hair and extremely long fingernails so I guess things like that keep growing. I still don't understand how he placed her, originally behind the wardrobe, wrapped in a carpet and she became mummified???

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by Guest on 15.10.12 21:21

A programme I once watched said it was a myth that things keep growing. Everything dies, and decomposes, as a result apparently the skin shrinks so giving the appearance that finger nails have grown etc. This article below explains and calls it an optical illusion. Anyway here is a full article, interesting if you like that sort of thing.



http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp
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Post by Swizzlestick on 15.10.12 21:34

@cath2756 wrote:I can understand nobody wanting to reply to this thread but please feel free, no matter what your obsevations may be. In no way will I be offended. The purpose of it was that I have been in a situation where all our family believed for 15 yr that his wife had left him and his Masonic handshake gave him 15 month's in jail (backdated to when he was first taken into custody) Looking back, he changed, big style, and the same cannot be said for TM. Also, he hid her body and family members walked in and out of the house from day one. It was never any intention on his part but she ended up being mummified. Decomposition takes on many levels

Hi Cath, just wanted to let you know that I have read your story and thought that you were brave to write it. It must have been, and must still be very traumatizing for you.

I can sympathize with you regarding the masonic involvement; I've had personal experience of it myself.

I hope that things will get easier for you in the future.
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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 21:58

@Swizzlestick wrote:
@cath2756 wrote:I can understand nobody wanting to reply to this thread but please feel free, no matter what your obsevations may be. In no way will I be offended. The purpose of it was that I have been in a situation where all our family believed for 15 yr that his wife had left him and his Masonic handshake gave him 15 month's in jail (backdated to when he was first taken into custody) Looking back, he changed, big style, and the same cannot be said for TM. Also, he hid her body and family members walked in and out of the house from day one. It was never any intention on his part but she ended up being mummified. Decomposition takes on many levels

Hi Cath, just wanted to let you know that I have read your story and thought that you were brave to write it. It must have been, and must still be very traumatizing for you.

I can sympathize with you regarding the masonic involvement; I've had personal experience of it myself.

I hope that things will get easier for you in the future.

Swizzlestick, it's something that I think about quite often but I find it quite easy to disasocciate (sp?) myself from things. I realise that may sound bad but so long as I stick to the facts of the event I am o.k. I still can't come to terms of the very graphic accounts.

So long as this has brought attention to the lengths Masons will go to protect one another then it has served a purpose. There are other things I could say re the presiding judge, family ties and Masonic involvement, hence the reason for a 15 month sentence for concealing a body for 15 yr but I know it would be wrong. Admin - please reword the last paragraph if you feel it should be reworded or even deleted.

What we have to remember is Knights Templar are very active in Rotheley and if ordinary Mason's are protected then Order of Knight Templar are even more so!!!

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Re: There are always signs when you look back

Post by cath2756 on 15.10.12 22:10

@saltnpepper wrote:Maybe your brother had a guilty conscience & never removed the body from the house to feel closer?even if you believe the McCanns version & they show no signs as you say,the question should be,shouldn't they? as if the abduction was true,they were still the biggest factor...in leaving Madeleine alone,Kate even felt uneasy pre holiday...they were given a warning by Madeleine that she & her brother woke the previous night & Kate told Fiona of her concerns whilst downing wine & sardines at the tapas May 3rd

I did reply to you but it seems to have disappeared. Yes, he did have a guilty conscience. When CID arrived at his door he asked them in and they advised him not to say anything until a lawyer was present. At this point they had no reason or proof to link him to anything. He told them he had no need for a lawyer as he had been waiting 15 yr etc etc. They told him he could have buried her body and it wouldn't have been found but his reply was that she was his wife and he loved her so couldn't 'get rid of her'

I did start writing a book but for various reasons it didn't come to anything. The point of the book was to show the person he was in the first few chapters then go on to show his decline culminating in what we found out 15 yr after it happened

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