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Post by Guest on 25.08.12 12:20

candyfloss wrote:Article about the bloody footprint and DNA testing from October 2007..........

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/bloody-footprint-in-maddie-case/story-e6frf7lf-1111114645248


Bloody footprint revealed in Madeleine McCann case


A BLOODY footprint was found in Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment
matching a print on their hire car, according to a forensic report.

The existence of the two marks, revealed for the first time yesterday in English newspaper The Mail on Sunday, is believed to be at the heart of renewed suspicion the couple were involved in their daughter's disappearance.

New
tests carried out at the Forensic Science Service laboratory in
Birmingham show there is a "moderate" chance the blood belonged to
Madeleine. But the results are inconclusive.

The report comes as Portuguese police conducted new searches around the holiday resort where the child was last seen.

The inquiry into the four-year-old's disappearance has been rife with conjecture and speculation over DNA.

And, until now, confusion has surrounded what samples had been found and how important they might be.

Part of the report reveals officers who examined the McCanns'
apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve after Madeleine went missing on
May 3 discovered a "partial footwear mark", believed to be from a size
five or six shoe, outside the bedroom.

It added that it "appeared to have a blood imprint" that was visible to the naked eye.

The
FSS results conclude the footprint matched the pattern of a mark found
above the rear bumper of the McCanns' Renault Scenic hire car, a print
which Portuguese police apparently believe is consistent with someone
lifting a body in or out of the boot. Experts could find no definite
traces of blood in that print.

Blood in the footprint at the
apartment was tested for DNA. Results are rated on an eight-point scale:
no scientific evidence, limited, moderate, moderately strong, strong,
very strong, extremely strong and conclusive.

Scientists found there was only "moderate" support - No.3 on the scale - to suggest it matched Madeleine's DNA.

What they believe is significant is no traces of blood were found around it.

"It
is quite possible, therefore, that the blood had been picked up on the
sole of the shoe from outside the apartment, from literally anywhere," a
source close to the investigation said.

The source said there was concern Portuguese police had already attached too much weight to the results.

Local
police are about to search land and a lake within a large radius of the
Ocean Club Holiday resort in Praia da Luz - where the youngster
vanished on May 3.

The areas to be covered include the coast
between Praia da Luz and the village of Burgau, land between the Ocean
Club and the beach, and the forests and isolated villas around the
Bravura dam in Odiaxere, according to the Times.

The land was searched early on in the investigation but it is believed searches there were not extensive.

Paulo
Rebelo, one of Portugal's most senior detectives and the new head of
the investigation, is thought to have ordered the move.

Police frogmen are expected to start searching the lake, which is 4.02 km wide, later this week, according to the Sun.

Officers are also reportedly planning to examine spots where Madeleine parents and their friends, used their mobile phones.

Last
week, Robert Murat, the first person to be declared an official suspect
over Madeleine's disappearance, broke his silence to make a direct plea
to the Portuguese police to finally clear him of suspicion.

Mr
Murat was shown speaking briefly in a interview with BBC News. He said:
"It's five months, my savings have gone. Mum is doing what she can. It
is just very, very difficult."
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Post by Nina on 25.08.12 12:31

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Article about the bloody footprint and DNA testing from October 2007. .........

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Thankyou admin for the new thread. So this print is the only print in the apartment? I find it strange that there were no other marks found because if you have trodden in somethig winkwink it would leave a mark everywhere you had walked, unless all other marks had been cleaned and this one overlooked. The cleaner was there on the wednesday and I am sure would have mopped all the rooms. Or was it under a cot and overlooked?
It is a match to a partial footprint in the car now that isn't a coincident imo.

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Post by Angelique on 26.08.12 1:20

I seem to remember seeing this "bloody footprint" on a video long time ago. Or it could have been a photo - I think it's just outside a door way to one of the rooms off the hall - can't remember anything else. It's possible if it was a video that it's gone now.

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Post by Ribisl on 26.08.12 7:21

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What they believe is significant is no traces of blood were found around it.

"It is quite possible, therefore, that the blood had been picked up on the
sole of the shoe from outside the apartment, from literally anywhere," a
source close to the investigation said.

The source said there was concern Portuguese police had already attached too much weight to the results.

This source sounds more like someone trying to control what goes out in the media as we know the PJ wouldn't make public information of this kind. What I don't understand is why there can be just a single isolated print unless the immediate area around it had been scrubbed. If you step on something, you would normally leave a trace of several footprints gradually fading away.

Local police are about to search land and a lake within a large radius of the
Ocean Club Holiday resort in Praia da Luz - where the youngster vanished on May 3.

The areas to be covered include the coast between Praia da Luz and the village of Burgau, land between the Ocean
Club and the beach, and the forests and isolated villas around the Bravura dam in Odiaxere, according to the Times.

The land was searched early on in the investigation but it is believed searches there were not extensive.

admin, what's the date of this article? If they had hidden her body somewhere temporary with an intention of burying it later or hiding it better, they would have been forewarned by this kind of news. It's possible that they could have been tipped off about the impending search and so they were able to be a step ahead of the police. It would be interesting then to cross-check their movements around that time. Gerry's picture on the rocks springs to mind as an example.

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Post by Guest on 26.08.12 8:07

Date of the article seems to be October 15, 2007. That's when McCs were already back in the UK.
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Post by tigger on 26.08.12 8:31

Châtelaine wrote:Date of the article seems to be October 15, 2007. That's when McCs were already back in the UK.

Around that time all bets were off - the press hadn't been muzzled yet and various stories were leaked - one of these from News of the World on 1/11 concerns the bag found near the airport .
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Very soon after that these stories were no longer printed.

Right up to the lifting of the arguido status the damage limitation operation around the McCanns was in full swing, repairing and suppressing damage such as the above and possibly too the bloody footprint. Whilst the McCanns focussed on lucrative contracts for film rights, documentaries and a million pound contract with Winfrey. Not to mention pursuing the ambassadorships and Amber Alert career opportunities.
From September 07 to about August 2008 it was a long haul - which has left traces of unprecedented government interference imo.





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Post by coppernob on 26.08.12 15:48

I have been re reading the threads in the Madeleine section at Websleuths and by coincedence i'm up to thread 17 which has quotes and links about the bloody footprint which I had forgotten about.

For example: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] dated 14.10.07

The Mail on Sunday reported today that the FSS had found evidence of a bloody footprint in the McCanns' apartment with an inconclusive match to Madeleine’s blood. The footprint from a size five or six shoe was reported to match one found on the rear bumper of a hire car which was consistent with lifting a heavy object, such as a body, in or out of the boot.

There was a lot of other new information coming out at the same time about new searches
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Post by tigger on 26.08.12 17:22

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have been re reading the threads in the Madeleine section at Websleuths and by coincedence i'm up to thread 17 which has quotes and links about the bloody footprint which I had forgotten about.

For example: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] dated 14.10.07

The Mail on Sunday reported today that the FSS had found evidence of a bloody footprint in the McCanns' apartment with an inconclusive match to Madeleine’s blood. The footprint from a size five or six shoe was reported to match one found on the rear bumper of a hire car which was consistent with lifting a heavy object, such as a body, in or out of the boot.

There was a lot of other new information coming out at the same time about new searches

You're right. 2007 was very interesting as was 2008, after that they were home free more or less.
But I'm following the trail as from September and I believe the odd bits of information that came and went, were leaks from the PJ. The PJ who wanted to interview the McCanns and their friends again in October/November. Thanks to the Home Office they finally made it in April and no McCanns.
Have a look at the timelines (in the Home section) and see if you can add to that.

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Post by sheila.edwards on 17.06.13 18:49

we never did hear anymore about the footprints or the bag.perhaps in future as over 30 people drove hire car I read.
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Post by whmon on 17.06.13 19:05

Here are all of the news articles about the bloody footprint:


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Post by sheila.edwards on 18.06.13 0:02

thank you for postings. very interesting im off to read up on what the moderate result really adds to my own little theories
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Post by tigger on 18.06.13 7:40

[quote="sheila.edwards"]thank you for postings. very interesting im off to read up on what the moderate result really adds to my own little theories[/quote

There was also the incident of the dog in the daytime.  Kate and Matt going for a run and Kate being attacked by a dog. MO does not mention this in his rogatory interview.


Being bitten by a dog may be one of the many weird pre-emptive excuses that the McCanns come up with in this case to explain the foot-print - and then the footprint(s) dropped out of sight and we were left only with the  excuse.

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Post by PeterMac on 18.06.13 8:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Being bitten by a dog may be one of the many weird pre-emptive excuses that the McCanns come up with in this case to explain the foot-print - and then the footprint(s) dropped out of sight and we were left only with the  excuse.
It is rather like the Cheshire Cat, which we discussed hundreds of years ago.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

The excuses for fluids found in the boot of the car, followed by the statement that no fluids were found . . .
The excuses for blood spatters on the wall of the apartment, followed by denial that blood had been found . . .

It has been one of the more fascinating aspects of this case, made even more hilarious by Mitchell's pre-emptive statement that there would be answers to any thing police found or did not find.
So he was pre-empting the pre-emption !

Wonderful. Worth every penny.

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Post by aquila on 18.06.13 9:21

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Being bitten by a dog may be one of the many weird pre-emptive excuses that the McCanns come up with in this case to explain the foot-print - and then the footprint(s) dropped out of sight and we were left only with the  excuse.
It is rather like the Cheshire Cat, which we discussed hundreds of years ago.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

The excuses for fluids found in the boot of the car, followed by the statement that no fluids were found . . .
The excuses for blood spatters on the wall of the apartment, followed by denial that blood had been found . . .

It has been one of the more fascinating aspects of this case, made even more hilarious by Mitchell's pre-emptive statement that there would be answers to any thing police found or did not find.
So he was pre-empting the pre-emption !

Wonderful. Worth every penny.

The statement 'no fluids were found' was made under oath at the Leveson Inquiry!
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Post by bobbin on 18.06.13 9:45

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:thank you for postings. very interesting im off to read up on what the moderate result really adds to my own little theories[/quote

There was also the incident of the dog in the daytime.  Kate and Matt going for a run and Kate being attacked by a dog. MO does not mention this in his rogatory interview.


Being bitten by a dog may be one of the many weird pre-emptive excuses that the McCanns come up with in this case to explain the foot-print - and then the footprint(s) dropped out of sight and we were left only with the  excuse.
My thoughts too tigger. The strange dog bite on the calf which Kate didn't get checked for rabies.
I don't have time today, people coming, to go looking, but how does 'the date' of Kate's announcement of the dog bite correlate with the 'announcement of the finding of the bloody footprint'.
At one time it was said that the footprint had come from one of the careless women policemen investigating.
Clearly a need to pass the blame onto someone else. Why does Kate make such a story about her stupid pink trainers. Too much focus on detail can actually draw more attention to it than if it had been left out.
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Post by Guest on 18.06.13 10:45

Sorry I can't resist it but, on the slight chance that this isn't another of Kate's shaggy dog stories, I do hope that the poor creature was vaccinated against her after the incident.

Memories of my mother many years ago asking the same thing of a neighbour's dog which had bitten my sister!
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Post by tigger on 18.06.13 11:23

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Sorry I can't resist it but, on the slight chance that this isn't another of Kate's shaggy dog stories, I do hope that the poor creature was vaccinated against her after the incident.

Memories of my mother many years ago asking the same thing of a neighbour's dog which had bitten my sister!

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Post by plebgate on 18.06.13 11:59

wouldn't there have to have been a fair bit of blood from the dog bite to leave a bloody footprint in the apartment.   That possibly being the case it would have needed stitches surely and as mentioned earlier, a rabies test?
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Post by Guest on 18.06.13 12:11

@plebgate wrote:wouldn't there have to have been a fair bit of blood from the dog bite to leave a bloody footprint in the apartment.   That possibly being the case it would have needed stitches surely and as mentioned earlier, a rabies test?
***
If there was no blood, there'd be no need to check anything. However, if a strange dog [or, in fact any dog, including your own] would bite through and break the skin, it is imperative to check for tetanus, rabies AND C.canimorsus! Cannot believe that doctor wouldn't think of that. If the latter isn't treated immediately with the right antibiotics, one could in the end be facing amputation of extremities sad
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Post by plebgate on 18.06.13 12:22

Your post says it all Chatelaine, says it all.
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Post by Guest on 18.06.13 12:24

I think that this one can now definitely be classed as a shaggy dog story - another instance of inventing a scenario to explain away inconvenient evidence.
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Post by Guest on 18.06.13 12:30

Châtelaine wrote:
@plebgate wrote:wouldn't there have to have been a fair bit of blood from the dog bite to leave a bloody footprint in the apartment.   That possibly being the case it would have needed stitches surely and as mentioned earlier, a rabies test?
***
If there was no blood, there'd be no need to check anything. However, if a strange dog [or, in fact any dog, including your own] would bite through and break the skin, it is imperative to check for tetanus, rabies AND C.canimorsus! Cannot believe that doctor wouldn't think of that. If the latter isn't treated immediately with the right antibiotics, one could in the end be facing amputation of extremities sad

I would think a doctor would be fully up to date with tetanus jabs, and therefore no need for one. I don't know when this started,

Tetanus vaccination
A vaccination to protect against tetanus is given as part of the NHS childhood vaccination programme.

The full course of the tetanus vaccination consists of five doses. The first three doses are given during early childhood. This is followed by two booster doses. The first booster dose is given at around four years of age. The second one is given 10 years later.

After the full course, you should have lifelong immunity against tetanus. However, if you or your child has a deep wound, it's best to get medical advice.

If you are not sure whether you've had the full course, for example because you were born in another country, contact your GP for advice.


http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Tetanus/Pages/Introduction.aspx
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Post by Ayniia on 18.06.13 12:52

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Article about the bloody footprint and DNA testing from October 2007..........

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



It added that it "appeared to have a blood imprint" that was visible to the naked eye.

The FSS results conclude the footprint matched the pattern of a mark found above the rear bumper of the McCanns' Renault Scenic hire car, a print which Portuguese police apparently believe is consistent with someone lifting a body in or out of the boot. Experts could find no definite traces of blood in that print.


Can this be the "damaging " proof Mr. Amaral talked about? Tough I found strange as was pointed before, that they had a clean footprint that was visible to naked eye when there was obviously such a thorough cleaning done on the apartment.

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Post by AndyB on 18.06.13 13:17

The shoe size is described as size 5 or 6 but is that men's, woman's or children's size 5 or 6?
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Post by dentdelion on 18.06.13 14:06

Shoe sizing does not vary according to age or gender.  Size 5 or 6 is probably 70% of female population I am guessing?  Men would start from size 8 approx for a small framed man and toddlers/small kids would be 1 to 3 size.
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