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ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

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Your views on Robert Murat...which of these statements is closest to your views about him?

1. He was an entirely innocent victim who had nothing to do with Madeleine McCann and fully deserved his £600,000+ libel damages for the wicked way the press treated him
 
2. There are a number of aspects of his conduct which raise significant questions in my mind
 
3. His lies about his movements between 1 and 4 May, his conduct whilst translating, his being identified by no fewer than 4 of the Tapas 9, and other matters, make me think he had a definite role to play in events that followed Madeleine's reported disa
 
 
 
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ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.08.12 11:45

Robert Murat: Should he be ‘left alone’?

Here, for debate, are 9 issues of concern that I recently listed about Robert Murat’s involvement in the Madeleine McCann case. These 9 are not the only ones, but perhaps the main ones.

A contrary view was expressed by tcat, whose views are listed in blue beneath each of my 9 concerns. I have also in some cases added a brief reply to tcat’s views.

There is a poll. This thread may be a convenient place to debate the continuing concerns about Murat.

++++++++++

1. Asked in early May 2007 if he already knew Robert Murat, Dr Gerald McCann refused to answer, saying: "I am not going to comment on that"

tcat replied: “Tony, I personally think continuing speculation about Murat is a waste of time. I see lots of speculation but most of it is concerned with opinions about his character, I believe, and really that’s not too much different to simply continuing Lori Campbell's campaign against him unfortunately. Ot's not logical for us to disbelieve what the McCanns and their friends say about Madeleine's disappearance, but believe what they say about Murat, is it? If somebody asked GM if today is Sunday, he'd probably say no comment if he thought creating confusion would give him an advantage. Again, it’s not logical to use him as a witness against Murat if we don’t believe what GM says about May 3 2007, is it?"

Reply by TB: Dr Gerald McCann’s reply is an indication that he and Murat knew each other before 3 May. If so, that would be of major significance in this case

++++++++++

2. Robert Murat has never given a convincing explanation why he rushed out of his house before 5am to catch an early morning flight to Faro Airport on Tuesday 1 May 2007

tcat replied: “Mr Murat's own business unless there is any evidence that that behaviour has any connection with Madeleine's disappearance, and after 5 years I've never seen any”.

++++++++++

3. He lied in at least 17 respects when questioned by police on 14 May about his movements between 1 and 4 May. When re-interviewed by police on 10 and 11 July 2007, and was confronted with mobile 'phone antenna evidence, he admitted lying, claiming he was 'too tired' to remember the truth on 14 May

tcat replied: “It's probably true the Portuguese police spent far more time looking at Murat than they did at the McCanns and if after all that investigation the policemen involved don’t seem to have any remaining suspicion about him, why should we? Mr Amaral doesn’t, as far as I know. If we believe what Amaral wrote in his book, and what his former colleagues stated in court to support him, logically we should trust their lack of remaining suspicion about Murat, shouldn't we?"

Reply by TB: Murat was being questioned about a 3-year-old girl who had gone missing. In the circumstances, why should Murat lie about anything, never mind 17 times? You have managed to evade completely the issue of why Murat lied so many times. Admittedly Amaral does not discuss Murat in depth in his book ‘The Truth About A Lie’, which is not particularly long. We must also bear in mind that it is now over four years since Amaral wrote his book. Quite a lot of new facts have emerged during this period

++++++++++

4. Jane Tanner, stationed in a police van on 13 May 2007, insisted that as Robert Murat walked by, that he was definitely the man she had seen 'walking purposefully' away from Flat G5A with a child. This led directly to his arrest the following day. She has since changed her mind.

tcat replied: “It's not logical for us to disbelieve what the McCanns and their friends say about Madeleine's disappearance, but believe what they say about Murat is it?”

Reply by TB: You have evaded all questions about how and why Tanner said on 13 May 2007 that Murat was definitely the man she claimed to have seen on 3 May, and why she later changed her mind. Murat was arrested on the basis of Tanner’s identification of him. Exactly how and why she made that (false) identification is a matter that justifies intense scrutiny.

++++++++++

5. During the following 48 hours, three of the Tapas 7 - Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Matthew Oldfield - suddenly 'remembered' seeing Murat 'hanging around the Ocean Club' on the evening of 3 May 2007. They all later changed their mind

tcat replied: “It's not logical for us to disbelieve what the McCanns and their friends say about Madeleine's disappearance, but believe what they say about Murat is it?”

++++++++++

6. Murat had encrypted material on his computer but offered no explanation as to how it got there

tcat repied: “Mr Murat's own business unless there is any evidence any of that behaviour has any connection with Madeleine's disappearance, and after 5 years I've never seen any”.

++++++++++

7. On 13 November 2007 Cheshire double glazing magnate Brian Kennedy and his in-house lawyer, McCann legal co-ordinator and senior Freemason Edward Smethurst travelled 2,000 miles to meet Murat - a suspect at the time of having abducted Madeleine - his mother, his aunt and uncle

tcat replied: “See next point”

++++++++++

8. He never sued any of the four members of the 'Tapas 7' who unjustly pointed the finger at him, and who (in the case of Jane Tanner) triggered his arrest in the first place, and, last but not least

tcat replied: “Points 7 & 8 are probably linked to each other but contact between Murat, his lawyers and those of the McCanns, their friends and Mr Kennedy in November 2007 isn’t evidence there was any collusion between those parties six months earlier”.

Reply by TB: You have evaded all questions relating to what business it was of Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst to interfere in a Portuguese police investigation and talk to a person who at the time was an official suspect. Nor have you dealt in any way with why, when Brian Kennedy met Robert Muratm his mother and his aunt and uncle, it was necessary for both parties to have their lawyers with them.

++++++++++

9. He admitted to regularly watching porn sites like 'redclouds' - and two separate witnesses, one of whom who had known him well, made credible allegations about his engaging in illegal conduct of a sexual nature.

tcat replied: “Mr Murat's own business unless there is any evidence any of that behaviour has any connection with Madeleine's disappearance, and after 5 years I've never seen any”.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 12:25

Still cannot understand GM's comment re Robert Murat. A simple yes or no would do.

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 13:16

If somebody asked GM if today is Sunday, he'd probably say no comment if he thought creating confusion would give him an advantage.

Shouldn't gerry mccann be commenting with a truthful answer to help find his daughter....... rather than try to create confusion?
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ufercoffy on 21.08.12 13:23

@jd wrote:Shouldn't gerry mccann be commenting with a truthful answer to help find his daughter....... rather than try to create confusion?

You'd think. roll

But he and his ambassador wife prefer to blame everyone else for hindering the search for their daughter even though between them they refused to answer 48 questions and take part in a reconstruction.

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Spaniel on 21.08.12 13:43

My view of Murat altered after what he wrote on Facebook. I always saw him as modest, and a private sort of man. I find it crass to go on FB and boast.

IMHO the only good thing about FB is it stopped people from sending their pathetic round robins in their Christmas cards. At least I can't view what's on FB.

If you don't speak to people either by phone or email, why would they care where you went on holiday?

Still don't think he was involved in the case, apart from maybe trying to sell a property.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 14:03

Saying 'no comment' when asked if you know someone is such a dead giveaway that they do! If someone truly did not know a person they would say 'no' straight away. If someone asked me if I knew the Queen I would say 'no'...not 'no comment'!

Its was Sandra Felgueiras who asked gerry mccann if he knew robert murat before the holiday. I think the mccanns were scared of her and what informations she seemed to know or might know by asking this question. It became 'keep your enemies' closer as Sandra seemed to have exclusive access to them in Portugal with interviews etc, and they allowed her to ask more direct questions unlike on British interviews

I think the stolen credit card incident was invented to cover tracks of previous transactions relating to PDL before April 28th

November 2007 is a pivotal point as after these meetings is when stories suddenly changed and they all seem to be now on the same page. The mccanns couldn't risk murat taking jane tanner and lori campbell to court with what information would be revealed. A deal had to be done which looks so obvious as is Sunday is the 7th day of the week with how stories all came into line. I think murat played his card getting Martin Smith to state he was 60-80% sure it was gerry mccann he saw. This told the mccanns how serious he was and soon after these meeting happened, stories changed, murat got his pay off and gone into obscurity (except for his world cruises). I think when it was reported that he was starting to sue jane tanner that this was another threat to the mccann machine, this suing jane tanner threat quickly disappeared and never heard of again..wonder why

The GNR, OC employees and holiday makers all say robert murat was not there on the night of 3rd May (3 independant sources)...Its only Tapas 9 members who 'suddenly' accused him of being there on the night of 3rd May. Someone is completely lying...Is it the 3 independent sources or Tapas 9? (doesn't take much thought)

I believe it was robert murat's related family the Symingtons who called him back with the job of being translator. A job he had done previously whilst in the UK. His role was to keep abreast of the information the police were gathering



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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by tigger on 21.08.12 14:33

This is from December 2007:
El Mundo (*) December 3: Phone records incriminate Gerry McCann and Russel O'Brien

Police has new evidence, apart from DNA samples, that give consistency to their main line of inquiry, in Madeleine's case, according to El Mundo's edition from December 3. The recent meeting at Elderby, Leicester, between police and forensic experts from both countries, brought more details that could help PJ to find an answer to the basic question, since August 11: where is Madeleine's body. Videos, pictures and phone records are among the material Portuguese police received from their British counterparts and allowed them to advance further in the investigation. [....]

The existence of contacts between Robert Murat and the so called Tapas Group was another conclusion of the meeting. Investigations in UK unveiled solid evidence that Gerry McCann and Robert Murat paths have crossed even before the family from Rothley came to Portugal. Questioned by journalists, in May, Gerry McCann refuse to confirm if he knew Murat.

(*) From Duarte Levy, published on El Mundo, December 3

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_01_archive.html

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by tigger on 21.08.12 15:08

And from McCannfiles: (see also timeline Dec.08 here)


1/12/07
There is further press speculation about the 'Exeter connection', based around the fact that, just prior to May 3rd, Robert Murat spent 10 days at his sister's home in Exeter. Her house is less than a mile from the house where Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien live. Tanner and O'Brien are neighbours of James and Charlotte Gorrod, who were also in Praia da Luz, at the same time as the Tapas Nine.  

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 19:42

@jd wrote:
If somebody asked GM if today is Sunday, he'd probably say no comment if he thought creating confusion would give him an advantage.

Shouldn't gerry mccann be commenting with a truthful answer to help find his daughter....... rather than try to create confusion?
I couldn't agree more with that, jd. I'm fully convinced the McCanns didn't tell the truth about May 3 2007, and their behaviour since only adds to the suspicion. I just don't share the suspicion about Murat.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 19:47

I've seen your other comment, jd, and don't understand why we would believe what GM said about anything? If he's telling lies about May 3 2007 as we believe, why would you take seriously anything he says about Murat? I'm not understanding your reasoning here.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 19:50

candyfloss wrote:Still cannot understand GM's comment re Robert Murat. A simple yes or no would do.
He's a politician, Candyfloss. Didn't he say confusion is good?
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ShuBob on 21.08.12 19:51

tcat wrote:
@jd wrote:
If somebody asked GM if today is Sunday, he'd probably say no comment if he thought creating confusion would give him an advantage.

Shouldn't gerry mccann be commenting with a truthful answer to help find his daughter....... rather than try to create confusion?
I couldn't agree more with that, jd. I'm fully convinced the McCanns didn't tell the truth about May 3 2007, and their behaviour since only adds to the suspicion. I just don't share the suspicion about Murat.

Neither do I!

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ShuBob on 21.08.12 19:53

tcat wrote:I've seen your other comment, jd, and don't understand why we would believe what GM said about anything? If he's telling lies about May 3 2007 as we believe, why would you take seriously anything he says about Murat? I'm not understanding your reasoning here.

It really doesn't make sense the picking and choosing of when and when not to believe Gerry and co

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by tigger on 21.08.12 19:58

@tigger wrote:This is from December 2007:
El Mundo (*) December 3: Phone records incriminate Gerry McCann and Russel O'Brien

The recent meeting at Elderby, Leicester, between police and forensic experts from both countries, brought more details that could help PJ to find an answer to the basic question, since August 11: where is Madeleine's body. Videos, pictures and phone records are among the material Portuguese police received from their British counterparts and allowed them to advance further in the investigation. [....]

Investigations in UK unveiled solid evidence that Gerry McCann and Robert Murat paths have crossed even before the family from Rothley came to Portugal. Questioned by journalists, in May, Gerry McCann refuse to confirm if he knew Murat.

(*) From Duarte Levy, published on El Mundo, December 3

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_01_archive.html

I've reposted my earlier post since it seems it has been overlooked.
The PJ and British police met at Elderby - video, pictures and phone records advanced the investigation. UK investigations produced solid evidence that GM and RM knew each other before the trip to PdL. etc.

It was British police who formulated evidence against the mcCanns and who still haven't eliminated either of them from the case.

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 20:07

I don't believe anything the mccanns and their cronies say, the statements alone prove this. gerry mccann did not answer the question about murat, he said 'no comment', so I can't be picking and choosing when to believe gerry mccann as he never answered the question. People who answer in this way 99% of the time have something to hide

I am totally suspicious of murat with his involvement in helping with the cover up, absolutely 100% suspicious. If he wasn't in any way involved then why the need to hold meetings in November 2007 with the aim of coming to an agreement of him going silent and taking a pay off for his troubles a few months later? It was not the police who held this meetings with murat, but brian 'bulldozer' kennedy who was a director of the Maddie fund and was very busy in interfering with the Maddie police investigation. Rangers Football Club will testify his tactics of getting what he wants!

Why were the Tapas 9 so intent in trying to set him robert murat for the abduction? They didn't pick his name from a tree, they had a reason

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by tiny on 21.08.12 20:08

@tigger wrote:
@tigger wrote:This is from December 2007:
El Mundo (*) December 3: Phone records incriminate Gerry McCann and Russel O'Brien

The recent meeting at Elderby, Leicester, between police and forensic experts from both countries, brought more details that could help PJ to find an answer to the basic question, since August 11: where is Madeleine's body. Videos, pictures and phone records are among the material Portuguese police received from their British counterparts and allowed them to advance further in the investigation. [....]

Investigations in UK unveiled solid evidence that Gerry McCann and Robert Murat paths have crossed even before the family from Rothley came to Portugal. Questioned by journalists, in May, Gerry McCann refuse to confirm if he knew Murat.

(*) From Duarte Levy, published on El Mundo, December 3

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_01_archive.html

I've reposted my earlier post since it seems it has been overlooked.
The PJ and British police met at Elderby - video, pictures and phone records advanced the investigation. UK investigations produced solid evidence that GM and RM knew each other before the trip to PdL. etc.

It was British police who formulated evidence against the mcCanns and who still haven't eliminated either of them from the case.

I also think RM and GM knew each other before pdl,thats why i think that RM will not be suing any of the tapas 7 in the near future.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ShuBob on 21.08.12 20:08

That report is from December 2007, Tigger. The PJ's final report along with the archiving dispatch came after. Is there any evidence that Murat failed to cooperate with the investigation despite early discrepances in his statements?

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 20:10

@tigger wrote:
@tigger wrote:This is from December 2007:
El Mundo (*) December 3: Phone records incriminate Gerry McCann and Russel O'Brien

The recent meeting at Elderby, Leicester, between police and forensic experts from both countries, brought more details that could help PJ to find an answer to the basic question, since August 11: where is Madeleine's body. Videos, pictures and phone records are among the material Portuguese police received from their British counterparts and allowed them to advance further in the investigation. [....]

Investigations in UK unveiled solid evidence that Gerry McCann and Robert Murat paths have crossed even before the family from Rothley came to Portugal. Questioned by journalists, in May, Gerry McCann refuse to confirm if he knew Murat.

(*) From Duarte Levy, published on El Mundo, December 3

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007_12_01_archive.html

I've reposted my earlier post since it seems it has been overlooked.
The PJ and British police met at Elderby - video, pictures and phone records advanced the investigation. UK investigations produced solid evidence that GM and RM knew each other before the trip to PdL. etc.

It was British police who formulated evidence against the mcCanns and who still haven't eliminated either of them from the case.
Is there just the one source for this, tigger? I'm not attempting to dismiss it, but hopefully it isn't just one source.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 20:10

And it was Duarte Levy who wrote it ...
Ever since the never to be seen 24 photos of Tapas on May 3 evening, I have - somehow - lost confidence ...
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 20:10

@tiny wrote: I also think RM and GM knew each other before pdl,thats why i think that RM will not be suing any of the tapas 7 in the near future.

Yes. Looks all too obvious

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 20:12

@ShuBob wrote:That report is from December 2007, Tigger. The PJ's final report along with the archiving dispatch came after. Is there any evidence that Murat failed to cooperate with the investigation despite early discrepances in his statements?

The fact robert murat did have discrepancies and changes to his statements should give you cause for suspicion. If he spoke the truth he would't need to change and suddenly remember things
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ShuBob on 21.08.12 20:17

@jd wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:That report is from December 2007, Tigger. The PJ's final report along with the archiving dispatch came after. Is there any evidence that Murat failed to cooperate with the investigation despite early discrepances in his statements?

The fact robert murat did have discrepancies and changes to his statements should give you cause for suspicion. If he spoke the truth he would't need to change and suddenly remember things

Not really!

The question is did he satisfy the police investigation? He may indeed have something to hide but that doesn't necessarily follow that it has anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. A classic example of this can be found in the Milly Dowler case when suspicions fell on her dad.

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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by jd on 21.08.12 20:24

@ShuBob wrote:
Not really!

The question is did he satisfy the police investigation? He may indeed have something to hide but that doesn't necessarily follow that it has anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. A classic example of this can be found in the Milly Dowler case when suspicions fell on her dad.

If the case is reopened he will still be aruguido
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 20:27

@jd wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:
Not really!

The question is did he satisfy the police investigation? He may indeed have something to hide but that doesn't necessarily follow that it has anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. A classic example of this can be found in the Milly Dowler case when suspicions fell on her dad.

If the case is reopened he will still be aruguido

Is this an absolute fact though jd? Is it Portuguese law, and has anyone got a link to show this is the case please, because I have read it so many times and believed it to be true, but it would be good to see a link for something concrete about it.
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Re: ROBERT MURAT: Should he be 'left alone'?

Post by ShuBob on 21.08.12 20:27

@jd wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:
Not really!

The question is did he satisfy the police investigation? He may indeed have something to hide but that doesn't necessarily follow that it has anything to do with Maddie's disappearance. A classic example of this can be found in the Milly Dowler case when suspicions fell on her dad.

If the case is reopened he will still be aruguido

That's ok. Until then, it would appear from the archiving dispatch that he satified the investigation up to that point. New information may have come in since then.

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