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George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

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George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 21:16

Hmmm seems George Galloway has spoken out about Julian Assange and the rape case , what do you think of his comments?



20 August 2012 Last updated at 17:41

George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments
George Galloway said he believed Mr Assange had been "set up"

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George Galloway has been criticised by anti-rape campaigners after suggesting Julian Assange was accused of nothing more than "bad sexual etiquette".

Mr Assange is wanted in Sweden to face allegations - which he denies - of sexual assault made by two women.

The Respect MP said the women's claims were "totally unproven" and the Wikileaks founder had been "set up".

Rape charity Crisis said Mr Galloway's comments were "offensive" and "deeply concerning".

The UK has said Mr Assange must be extradited to Sweden despite being given political asylum by Ecuador.

Mr Assange remains holed up in the Ecuadorean embassy in London but the UK has said he will not be given safe passage to the Latin American country.

'Bad manners'

Mr Assange insists that he had consensual sex with each of the women who have made allegations against him.

Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote



If the allegations made by these two women were true, 100 per cent true, and even if a camera in the room captured them, they don't constitute rape”
End Quote George Galloway
His legal team has said he wants assurances from the Swedish government that he will not be extradited to the US - where Wikileaks caused a storm last year by publishing thousands of leaked diplomatic cables and correspondence.

Mr Galloway, a frequent critic of the US and UK governments, said Mr Assange's "only crime was to expose, through Wikileaks, malfeasance by states including our own and the US on a truly gargantuan scale".

In a thirty minute podcast, the controversial anti-war MP said it was "an extraordinary coincidence that public enemy number one, Julian Assange, somehow gets inveigled with two women with incredibly complex political backgrounds who just, at the right time, come forward with allegations of sexual misconduct against him".

"Let me tell you, I think that Julian Assange's personal sexual behaviour is sordid, disgusting, and I condemn it," he said.

"But even taken at its worst, if the allegations made by these two women were true, 100 per cent true, and even if a camera in the room captured them, they don't constitute rape.

"At least not rape as anyone with any sense can possibly recognise it. And somebody has to say this."

'Factually incorrect'

The Bradford West MP suggested one of the women had claimed she invited Mr Assange back to her flat, had consensual sex with him and then "woke up to him having sex with her again - something which can happen, you know".

On the issue of whether this would constitute rape or not, Mr Galloway suggested that "not everybody needs to be asked prior to each insertion".

"Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them.

"It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?'

"It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."

Rape Crisis said the MP's understanding of what constituted rape appeared to be "factually incorrect" and that if the woman concerned was asleep when the sexual encounter began, consent could not "reasonably" have been given.

"Having had consensual sex with a woman once does not give a man licence to then have sex with her again at any time and in any way he pleases and assume consent is given," a spokeswoman said.

"By the same token, having had consensual sex with someone once does not mean a woman has forever forfeited her right to withdraw or refuse her consent to further sex with that person.

"Sex without consent is rape. Mr Galloway's description of such sexual violence as 'really bad manners' is offensive and deeply concerning." Mr Galloway was not available for comment.

Legal differences

There are differences in the law regarding rape in the UK and Sweden.

In the UK, a rape has been committed if there is intentional penetration without consent and if the accused "does not reasonably believe" that consent has been given.

The maximum sentence is life imprisonment although Rape Crisis says the average sentence is four years.

In Sweden, there are gradations in the legal definition of rape - each carrying different sentences.

The most serious kind, involving major violence, carries a sentence of ten years.

The concept of "regular rape", still involving violence but not of the most extreme kind, and "unlawful coercion", where for instance emotional pressure may have been applied, carry sentences of six and four years respectively.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19323783
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 22:09

So, is George totally out of order, or is he right???



“Start Quote





If the allegations made by these two women were true, 100 per cent true, and even if a camera in the room captured them, they don't constitute rape”
End Quote George Galloway
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 22:52

If I've understood at the time correctly, both women behaved like groupies, eager to please the man they held for a hero and only filed complaints much later, after they'd found out that he slept with both of them. I am very sensitive to rape, as it's a most horrible thing to happen to a woman to be forced to have sex, when they don't want to and it's often lifetime damaging. Somehow I don't get such a picture in this case and I agree that Assange may not have correct sex etiquette, but nothing to extradite him to a country, which will pursue him [there's the contradictionary reaction to this case by two separate Swedish prosecutors ...] and likely extradite to the USA, once they demand it. There have been US politicians demanding up to death penalty for his treason. I would be scared too ...
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 21.08.12 7:02

I agree with Galloway that it's not rape.
Galloway also said: "Let me tell you, I think that Julian Assange's personal sexual behaviour is sordid, disgusting, and I condemn it," he said.

So why isn't Australia interested in getting him back? He's wanted for hacking there.

He's hiding out in Equator's embassy - a country which has an appalling human right record. Wikileaks - I read elsewhere - has whooshed all the negative information on Equator. Was that the deal? If that is the case he must have quite a lot of opportunities to get sanctuary from countries he's exposed as long as the negative information he's published is taken off the wikileaks site.

I agree that the extradiction to the US is dangerous for him, but I understand it is legal since he has committed various crimes there. The charge cannot be treason for him, since he can never have sworn an oath to the US.


If this is an international plot to get Assange extradited to the US it's a very complicated way to do it. The UK has an extradition obligation with both Sweden and the US. So Sweden takes precedence? Weird.
If the rape charge is just a smear from two women who are trying to get some financial or public recompense, it's a very stupid move.
This charge makes nonsense of the terrible crime of rape. Assange is guilty of being a sleazy creep, in love with himself.(Gosh that reminds me of someone).



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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 22.08.12 9:21

@tigger wrote:Wikileaks - I read elsewhere - has whooshed all the negative information on Equator. Was that the deal?

Credible evidence or mods please remove this.

I cannot believe how casual this is. You're starting up a rumour that could very quickly become indistinguishable from fact and continue to sway public opinion in a case that's about as rotten as you can get in terms of mainstream political and media mis-information.

What you're suggesting (above) Tigger is, I think, so serious that it has to be challenged and removed if you can't substantiate it. For Wikileaks to 'whoosh' information on Ecuador in exchange for asylum would make a mockery of everything it and Assange stands for. Please don't chuck it around lightly like this.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 10:09

From MM: Lioned wrote on 20/8


Here's a little snippett from the latest 'Human Rights World Report'....................



Corruption, inefficiency, and political influence have plagued the Ecuadorian judiciary for many years. In a referendum held in 2011, President Rafael Correa obtained a popular mandate for constitutional reforms that could significantly increase government powers to constrain media and influence the appointment and dismissal of judges.

Ecuador’s laws restrict freedom of expression, and government officials, including Correa, use these laws against his critics. Those involved in protests marred by violence may be prosecuted on inflated and inappropriate ‘terrorism’ charges.

Impunity for police abuses is widespread and perpetrators of murders often attributed to a “settling of accounts” between criminal gangs are rarely prosecuted and convicted.

2012 World Report Chapter


Not much freedom of speech there then.

Not to mention the persecution of the Native Ecuadorian Amazon tribes

Guess assange thinks thats all ok then ?


I also note that wikileaks has 'wooshed' all the nasty stuff they had on Ecuador ! Now where have we seen that censorship before ?

unquote

I've asked Lioned to clarify the source, however if the information has been whooshed it will no longer be on the site of Wikileaks.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-ecuador


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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 22.08.12 10:20

Tigger, I don't doubt that Ecuador has a grubby human rights record. If your complaint is that Assange is shacking up with despots and grubby crooks, that's a reasonable criticism - after all, their behaviour is in the public domain for all to see.

I'm specifically objecting to the suggestion that Wikileaks may have 'whooshed' documents it had in a trade off for Assange receiving asylum.

That suggestion implies the following, very particular, things:

1) There were significant documents about Ecuador's human rights / political misdeeds held by Wikileaks
2) That these have recently been removed from Wikileaks
3) That this removal was the result of a deal struck by Assange / Wikileaks in return for asylum

To be fair to Assange, I really think that if you have no evidence of that sequence of events happening then it's wrong to suggest them by saying "Didn't I read somewhere that...?.


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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by bobbin on 22.08.12 11:17

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Tigger, I don't doubt that Ecuador has a grubby human rights record. If your complaint is that Assange is shacking up with despots and grubby crooks, that's a reasonable criticism - after all, their behaviour is in the public domain for all to see.

I'm specifically objecting to the suggestion that Wikileaks may have 'whooshed' documents it had in a trade off for Assange receiving asylum.

That suggestion implies the following, very particular, things:

1) There were significant documents about Ecuador's human rights / political misdeeds held by Wikileaks
2) That these have recently been removed from Wikileaks
3) That this removal was the result of a deal struck by Assange / Wikileaks in return for asylum

To be fair to Assange, I really think that if you have no evidence of that sequence of events happening then it's wrong to suggest them by saying "Didn't I read somewhere that...?.



ProfessorPPlum, in the above red-highlighted area you are making a series of serious accusations against Ecuador which you are not supporting with evidence. How do you find yourself able to criticise others for the very same thing that you are doing ?

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 14:13

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:

[.....]
To be fair to Assange, I really think that if you have no evidence of that sequence of events happening then it's wrong to suggest them by saying "Didn't I read somewhere that...?.

I did not say that. Please don't misquote me.

I said : 'I read elsewhere' - in the following post I gave the full quote and reference.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 22.08.12 16:19

"I also note that wikileaks has 'wooshed' all the nasty stuff they had on Ecuador ! Now where have we seen that censorship before ? "

I've asked Lioned to clarify the source, however if the information has been whooshed it will no longer be on the site of Wikileaks.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-ecuador

So someone called Lioned said so. But the link you supply doesn't back up his claim that Wikileaks has 'whooshed' bad news about Ecuador which is what you repeated in your comment, it just points at Ecuador's less-than-perfect record.

So Lioned claimed:

1) There were significant documents about Ecuador's human rights / political misdeeds held by Wikileaks
2) That these have recently been removed from Wikileaks
3) That this removal was the result of a deal struck by Assange / Wikileaks in return for asylum

And you repeated that claim saying 'I heard elsewhere....'

I'm still waiting for some credible evidence of the above 3 things (not anything else) that would make it fair to repeat the above slur on Assange and Wikileaks.

Bobbin, in case you hadn't noticed, the evidence for MY 'claim' about Ecuador was the stuff that Tigger posted and the Human Rights Watch link.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 22.08.12 16:21

Point is I don't KNOW if it's true or not what Lioned suggests - I just don't think it's fair to repeat it on a forum like this without some pretty solid evidence behind it.
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 22.08.12 16:36

Regards Galloways comments, unless he actually was there when the alleged offences took place, he shouldn't be making his "100%" claims IMO. I think he is trying to convey his message in a rather shabby way TBH.

Rape is such a horrific crime, so damaging for victims AND men who've been falsely accused, that the highest degree of circumspection should be applied whenever it comes up for discussion in public.

I do not, as a woman, believe that ALL claims of "rape" should be lumped in and treated the same. If I am correctly remembering, an encounter between two consenting adults which is in full flow so to speak can become "rape" the very instance a woman says stop. So, (sorry to be so blunt) everything could be going along quite naturally, but if a woman just said "stop", and the chap carried on for just mere seconds, he could legally be accused of rape. Please correct me here if I have got this wrong, I'll buzz off and see if I can find a reference.

This is wholly and completely a different scenario to a man who follows a woman in the street and brutally rapes her.

There have been too many cases where women have falsely accused men of this vile crime, some have ended up taking their own lives over such a smear. It belittles real victims. It makes women vulnerable to not being believed when a real attack happens and it is unfair that a man can be named in public before a verdict can be reached by a jury.

Unfortunately, when people are known to each other and an accusation is made, often it is unproveable one way or the other.

In this case, George should have kept his opinions to himself.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ShuBob on 22.08.12 17:09

Excellent post Smokeandmirrors.


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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 17:59

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:


Bobbin, in case you hadn't noticed, the evidence for MY 'claim' about Ecuador was the stuff that Tigger posted and the Human Rights Watch link.


It wasn't , it is your interpretation of it. The wording is quite different.

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Refusal

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.08.12 18:12

@tigger wrote:He's hiding out in Ecuador's embassy - a country which has an appalling human rights record. Wikileaks - I read elsewhere - has whooshed all the negative information on Ecuador. Was that the deal? If that is the case he must have quite a lot of opportunities to get sanctuary from countries he's exposed as long as the negative information he's published is taken off the Wikileaks site.
In other words, if this report is right, the saintly Assange is now a willing collaborator in covering up human rights abuses, to save his own skin. As it is, even if this information isn't right, he has sucked up to a country with a bad human rights record. He didn't ask for my permission before putting up '60 Reasons' on his site, either. I had to ask him to take it down, but he refused

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 20:12

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@tigger wrote:He's hiding out in Ecuador's embassy - a country which has an appalling human rights record. Wikileaks - I read elsewhere - has whooshed all the negative information on Ecuador. Was that the deal? If that is the case he must have quite a lot of opportunities to get sanctuary from countries he's exposed as long as the negative information he's published is taken off the Wikileaks site.
In other words, if this report is right, the saintly Assange is now a willing collaborator in covering up human rights abuses, to save his own skin. As it is, even if this information isn't right, he has sucked up to a country with a bad human rights record. He didn't ask for my permission before putting up '60 Reasons' on his site, either. I had to ask him to take it down, but he refused

I tried to watch a film about Assange and his mates on Russia Today, but had to give up, because it didn't seem to be about righting wrongs but patting each other on the back. I'd quite like to see what good Assange has done with his widely publicised information. Righted a few wrongs? I doubt it.
http://assange.rt.com/ It's worth a look if only for the smirking portraits of these luminaries.

There was a movement in the Netherlands in the eighties - forgotten the name - but they used to break into government offices, pull out all the classified files and throw them out of the windows. What Assange is doing is about as useful. Disjointed gigabytes of information, most of which is only interesting to small groups. Besides, we already know that governments and media are duplicitous.

Dick Turpin would be a better name for him. Made out to be a folk hero, but in fact was a nasty piece of work all round.
Wish Australia would lay claim to him.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Guest on 22.08.12 20:14

Tweet from George Galloway....

George Galloway‏@georgegalloway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDaUGB3sjbs …. Once more the Australian documentary on #Assange Devastating. Judge for yourself
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by The Shelfstacker on 22.08.12 21:15

I've watched the ABC documentary. It seems to me that the moral line on Assange is quite clear: we should support his return to Sweden and questioning on the rape allegations but ferociously oppose any idea of extradition to the United States. At the moment, legitimate concerns on extradition are being used to avoid legitimate questioning on the rape allegations.
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by listener on 22.08.12 23:39

candyfloss wrote:Tweet from George Galloway....

George Galloway‏@georgegalloway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDaUGB3sjbs …. Once more the Australian documentary on #Assange Devastating. Judge for yourself

Thank-you candyfloss. It is such a shame our (UK) media too often fail to show the full stories
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by tigger on 23.08.12 7:09

candyfloss wrote:Tweet from George Galloway....

George Galloway‏@georgegalloway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDaUGB3sjbs …. Once more the Australian documentary on #Assange Devastating. Judge for yourself

Thanks for that. It seems a set-up but I'm wondering if the real issue is STD? I would think that is a criminal offence and there have been cases where it's been regarded as attempted murder. The Swedish girls wouldn't or couldn't let this be known. Even if neither of them had 'caught' anything from him, there was the risk if he is found to have or have had such a disease at the time.
That is exactly what he refused to do, to undergo a test.

Galloway seems to be right though, can't make any of this rape.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 23.08.12 13:25

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@tigger wrote:He's hiding out in Ecuador's embassy - a country which has an appalling human rights record. Wikileaks - I read elsewhere - has whooshed all the negative information on Ecuador. Was that the deal? If that is the case he must have quite a lot of opportunities to get sanctuary from countries he's exposed as long as the negative information he's published is taken off the Wikileaks site.
In other words, if this report is right, the saintly Assange is now a willing collaborator in covering up human rights abuses, to save his own skin. As it is, even if this information isn't right, he has sucked up to a country with a bad human rights record. He didn't ask for my permission before putting up '60 Reasons' on his site, either. I had to ask him to take it down, but he refused

What report, Tony?

Tigger said 'I read elsewhere'. That's hearsay, not a report, not evidence.

Lioned's post (quoted by Tigger) makes reference only to the unsavoury record of Ecuador. He references a report about Ecuador's human rights record.

So where is the evidence that suggests or proves that Assange and Wikileaks have 'whooshed' stuff in exchange for asylum please?

I honestly can't believe that no-one gets what's at issue here.
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Lioned on 23.08.12 22:33

In actual fact there is not very much at issue here only the credibility of a man who proclaims to be the saviour of all things bad (particularly if they happen to involve the USA).His rather inadequate impression of the Messiah on the balcony of the 'embassy' the other day should give you a reasonable idea of his character,particularly the 'you cant touch me mccann grin'.Getting excited about 'wooshed' info from wikileaks' wont disguise the shortcomings of this comic book character who seems to have gathered the usual bunch of tree hugging benefit scrounging 'activists' to the streets of London at some increasing cost to the UK tax payer.The vision of our keystone cops under instruction from our less than competent Cameron creeping up the back stairs under the cover of darkness is uncomfortably plausible though probably a lie.The sooner We allow him safe passage to the Ecuadorian Amazon the better,he can maybe become a missionary and practice his preaching there to the lost tribes.
Assange is no more important now than a rat up a drain pipe.If the USA wanted him as bad as some have suggested then he'd probably have had a poisoned brolly up his arse by now.
The real Issue here is America phobia and this has given those just another excuse to pour out their bile at a Country that has helped us out plenty.If they want to stick a load of radical ****** on the waterboard to save some of our troops and make the World a safer place then thats fine by me.Rather that than have many innocent men women and children mutilated and murdered so that a few nutters can get a free ticket to the land of 47 virgins.
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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by russiandoll on 24.08.12 8:16

quote Lioned : " The real Issue here is America phobia and this has given those just another excuse to pour out their bile at a Country that has helped us out plenty.If they want to stick a load of ****terrorists on the waterboard to save some of our troops and make the World a safer place then thats fine by me.Rather that than have many innocent men women and children mutilated and murdered so that a few nutters can get a free ticket to the land of 47 virgins."

your use of the term **** is not fine by me. I believed when I joined that racism would not be tolerated on this forum.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by anil39200 on 24.08.12 10:23

Thats it for me. The post about ***** is not acceptable to me either. I was not going to post here again and had asked admin to delete my details. This is not the first time this type of language has been ised. In addition there have been other posts by people who should know better but seem to follow a right wing, xenophobic, little England mentality. I had no idea when I joined that this forum was a vehicle for those views. I cannot be a part of a forum where such language is used or such views are promulgated. I am off. Goodbye and good luck to those posters who are looking for the truth about a missing child. Goodbye.

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Re: George Galloway attacked over Assange 'rape' comments

Post by Guest on 24.08.12 10:41

If posters decide to leave because of some perhaps ill thought out words - without waiting for the person who posted them to come back on line - they will not in my opinion be missed.
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