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Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 23:32

@Verdi wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:@ Verdi. The point being made that Raj Balu, bald or not, was captured in a photo said to have been taken the evening before Madeleine's disappearance. He was interviewed about this. He must have corroborated the day during this interview when accounting for why and how he came to be there since the P.J accept it was taken on May 2nd.

Not if you look back to when this thread was rekindled from 2015, a few days ago.
I confess myself at a loss. Where do you suggest I should put a post about Raj Balu (the aforementioned bald man) being in the playground photo if not on a thread entitled "The bald man in the playground photo"?

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 23:40

Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator?

Yes, I already have up-page thumbsup .

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 23:46

@Verdi wrote:
Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator?

Yes, I already have up-page thumbsup .
Yes I read your post @verdi 

Where did the translator get the date of 2nd May? 

Are you saying from the press? 

The photo was released the 27th May (Amaral doesn't know how they got  it or why?) 
The fact he knew this, yet has not anywhere as far as I can see disputed the 2nd May date attributed to the playground photos. 

I am assuming the translator translated in 2008 when the files were released? 
Saw the press release of late May 2007 of the playground photo said to be taken 2nd May 2007? 
And then added the 2nd May date to the translated files? 

Do I have that right?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 23:48

@Phoebe wrote:I confess myself at a loss. Where do you suggest I should put a post about Raj Balu (the aforementioned bald man) being in the playground photo if not on a thread entitled "The bald man in the playground photo"?

I don't believe I've commented on your contribution to the thread @Phoebe. I only responded to your reply to my general comment.

thumbsup

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 23:58

19. I produce a report containing each of these picture identification reference SWM/3019/01 to SWM/3019/43.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm

That entry in the PJ files refers to the Foster family. On their return home from holidaying at the Ocean Club, they contacted the police thinking they might just have videoed/photographed something that might assist the investigation. They didn't know how to upload the camera footage so a police officer from Hampshire was sent to their home.

There was nothing found to assist the investigation.


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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 0:01

@MayMuse wrote:Where did the translator get the date of 2nd May?

I've already answered that up-page thumbsup.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 0:10

@Verdi wrote:
@MayMuse wrote:Where did the translator get the date of 2nd May?

I've already answered that up-page thumbsup.
@Verdi wrote:
Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator?
[size]

Yes, I already have up-page  .[/size]
Yes I read your post @verdi 

Where did the translator get the date of 2nd May? 

Are you saying from the press? 

The photo was released the 27th May (Amaral doesn't know how they got  it or why?) 
The fact he knew this, yet has not anywhere as far as I can see disputed the 2nd May date attributed to the playground photos. 

I am assuming the translator translated in 2008 when the files were released? 
Saw the press release of late May 2007 of the playground photo said to be taken 2nd May 2007? 
And then added the 2nd May date to the translated files? 

Do I have that right?






@verdi Yes, I'm asking for clarification that I  have understood your post correctly (as I've stated above) , if you would be so kind, thank you. 

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by HiDeHo on 23.02.18 0:13

May Muse wrote:On the photos on this link, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm#oa8v3p549
Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator? 
And I've just seen that the grey black/white photos (scroll down, its headed at the start of the photos) were separated and identified by Hideho , perhaps Lizzy would know this?

The Black and White pictures were numbered and separated from the original pages by myself as well as an attmpt to identify the figures in the  playground

As Verdi has pointed out I believe ALL the pictures were given a similar identification with a 'description' by Albym to help once the photos were released in the files.

-----------------------------

There are a couple of things I would like to address...

I have always thought of the POSSIBILITY the photos were taken on the Saturday.  

They arrived around 3.30pm and went to a meeting at the tapas before walking to the Millenium.  It would not be out of the question that they would not bring along sweaters.  

Although Gerry is wearing shorts, he has a sweater on which appears to have a tshirt underneath. (The same Tshirt and shorts he wore in the last picture?)

Sean is wearing the same outfit as in the airport bus

I see nothing odd with any/all of them preparing for the chilly evening ahead (until 7pm when they walked to Millenium)

------------------------------------------------------

I see no reason for Raj Balu to have been interviewed about the photo.  Whether he mentioned unofficially to having seen them in the playground we don't know, but the photos were held by the PJ. (after he returned to England on 5th?)

The PJ were TOLD it was May 2nd and they would (likely) see no reason at the time to question anything.

Regarding Raj Balu.  As I mentioned in another thread Goncalo made a point of questioning WHY the McCanns chose to release the photo on May 27th.  He seems to suggest that because the McCanns were attempting to target Robert Murat, that the photo may have promoted suspicions because of Murat in photos alongside Raj Balu.




------------------------------------------------------------------

 In the Black and White playground pic I see what is likely Maddies arms with a portion of a face behind which could be Amelie.




While on the subject of Maddie photos and though (I apologise if a little off topic) I recently found this EXIF data from (apparently) the tennis photo.

Does anyone know where this originated from (I havent yet done a search and sadly it looks like Stevo has taken down the re-upload of 3A's )  sad

Am I correct in thinking that Gerry's camera did not record times etc?  Kates Canon did (as per Last Photo exif data?)


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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 0:21

@MayMuse wrote:@verdi Yes, I'm asking for clarification that I  have understood your post correctly (as I've stated above) , if you would be so kind, thank you.

Bump..

@Verdi wrote:As I said up-page, Bruno Press record the image as being taken by a friend of the McCanns, the date is specified as 2nd May 2007 but there is no indication as to the provenance of this information.

Yesterday I also saw reference to the image being from the McCann family photograph pool - make of that what you will.  Realistically, the information could only have come from the McCanns or a source close to the family

I've just tried to locate the source but was distracted by a someone suggesting the bald bloke in the playground was a PJ officer, detailed to trail and watch Madeleine McCann and if you look carefully at the image, you will see someone below the bald bloke peeping through the playhouse at the McCanns.

spit coffee

I'm still laughing now.

ETA: Apparently you have to blow the image up. With pleasure bomb !

howdy

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Doug D on 23.02.18 0:27

Thank you Verdi.
 
‘That entry in the PJ files refers to the Foster family. On their return home from holidaying at the Ocean Club, they contacted the police thinking they might just have videoed/photographed something that might assist the investigation. They didn't know how to upload the camera footage so a police officer from Hampshire was sent to their home.’
 
I had a vague recollection that the Stuart Martin photo’s were not from the Mc’s camera, but my filing didn’t lead me back to the Fosters.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FOSTER.htm
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3918-the-foster-family-photograph
 
Irrespective, it makes absolutely no sense that the ‘last’ (or at least a more up to date) photo does not get released until three weeks later.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 0:31

@HiDeHo wrote:
May Muse wrote:On the photos on this link, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm#oa8v3p549
Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator? 
And I've just seen that the grey black/white photos (scroll down, its headed at the start of the photos) were separated and identified by Hideho , perhaps Lizzy would know this?

The Black and White pictures were numbered and separated from the original pages by myself as well as an attmpt to identify the figures in the  playground

As Verdi has pointed out I believe ALL the pictures were given a similar identification with a 'description' by Albym to help once the photos were released in the files.

-----------------------------

There are a couple of things I would like to address...

I have always thought of the POSSIBILITY the photos were taken on the Saturday.  

They arrived around 3.30pm and went to a meeting at the tapas before walking to the Millenium.  It would not be out of the question that they would not bring along sweaters.  

Although Gerry is wearing shorts, he has a sweater on which appears to have a tshirt underneath. (The same Tshirt and shorts he wore in the last picture?)

Sean is wearing the same outfit as in the airport bus

I see nothing odd with any/all of them preparing for the chilly evening ahead (until 7pm when they walked to Millenium)

------------------------------------------------------

I see no reason for Raj Balu to have been interviewed about the photo.  Whether he mentioned unofficially to having seen them in the playground we don't know, but the photos were held by the PJ. (after he returned to England on 5th?)

The PJ were TOLD it was May 2nd and they would (likely) see no reason at the time to question anything.

Regarding Raj Balu.  As I mentioned in another thread Goncalo made a point of questioning WHY the McCanns chose to release the photo on May 27th.  He seems to suggest that because the McCanns were attempting to target Robert Murat, that the photo may have promoted suspicions because of Murat in photos alongside Raj Balu.




------------------------------------------------------------------

 In the Black and White playground pic I see what is likely Maddies arms with a portion of a face behind which could be Amelie.




While on the subject of Maddie photos and though (I apologise if a little off topic) I recently found this EXIF data from (apparently) the tennis photo.

Does anyone know where this originated from (I havent yet done a search and sadly it looks like Stevo has taken down the re-upload of 3A's )  sad


@HiDeHo Thank you for the information, it assists in some clarification, particularly that the PJ had the photos by 4th May. There always seems to be an agenda from the press and McCann side. If by deduction the playground photo is the 28th, why chose the 2nd May ? Why not any other day? 
 I can't help you with the data on the tennis photo , sorry...I note the date is the 5th May which could not be, unless that suggests it has been tampered with?  Seems nothing is  straightforward in this case?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 0:51

@Doug D wrote:Thank you Verdi.
 
‘That entry in the PJ files refers to the Foster family. On their return home from holidaying at the Ocean Club, they contacted the police thinking they might just have videoed/photographed something that might assist the investigation. They didn't know how to upload the camera footage so a police officer from Hampshire was sent to their home.’
 
I had a vague recollection that the Stuart Martin photo’s were not from the Mc’s camera, but my filing didn’t lead me back to the Fosters.
 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FOSTER.htm
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3918-the-foster-family-photograph
 
Irrespective, it makes absolutely no sense that the ‘last’ (or at least a more up to date) photo does not get released until three weeks later.

Aha!  Bone of contention if ever there was!  Makes no sense to me.  

Jon Corner was on the scene as early as 4th May with a portfolio of 'Madeleine' photographs;   the isolated few confirmed images of Madeleine contained in PJ files and the floating image - the tennis ball image;   Kate McCann claims to have been frantically rummaging through her camera memory whilst waiting outside the PJ interview room whilst Gerald was within;   the Olympus camera sitting on an otherwise empty table in apartment 5a;  the camera memory CDs passed to the PJ by Gerald McCann and his mate Michael Wright and then the outdated image given to the PJ for official release;  Jim Gamble ex of the CEOP asking holidaymakers to upload their photographs and video footage on his exclusive dedicated site  - have I missed anything?

Gerry McCann returned from his first trip back to Blighty during the third week of May 2007, carrying not only the 'last photograph' and a pillowcase allegedly used by Madeleine but a government media monitoring guru to boot, as excess baggage.

The photograph issue is most certainly a very big piece of the jigsaw methinks but I digress - slightly.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by HiDeHo on 23.02.18 0:59

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 1:05

The bigger picture to compliment the above ^^^



ETA: Note the writing pad and pen/pencil on the table. Could this have been where Ms Healy was really searching through the memory of her camera or was it already en-route to the UK?

It has been said that the McCanns didn't have access to a computer in those early days, it has also been said that they borrowed a laptop from somebody in those early days.

thinking

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 23.02.18 1:51

At the time the P.J asked for Raj Balu to be interviewed about the playground photo they were suspicious of him. Dr, Amaral writes that he appeared to be "observing the family" and he was later photographed in the company of the then prime and only suspect. This photo was said to have been taken the evening before she was "abducted". I would expect that they sent a list of questions to be put to Balu in order to satisfy themselves about his potential involvement. Balu made two official statements which have been withheld. I cannot logically conceive that he got away with anything less than a full explanation of when he was there, why he was there, whether he spoke to or interacted with Madeleine then or at any other time etc. Remember they were toying with the idea that he and Murat might have been acquainted. 
Even months later in his rogatory statement which is in the files he is asked to account for his movements on the evening of May 3rd, how he knew Neil Berry, how he learned the child was missing, where and with whom he searched, who bought their Tapas meal that night and even what it consisted of !

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by HiDeHo on 23.02.18 2:35

@Verdi wrote:The bigger picture to compliment the above ^^^



ETA:  Note the writing pad and pen/pencil on the table.  Could this have been where Ms Healy was really searching through the memory of her camera or was it already en-route to the UK?

It has been said that the McCanns didn't have access to a computer in those early days, it has also been said that they borrowed a laptop from somebody in those early days.

thinking


Something I find very interesting is this photo...

It is a much better quality photo that is not included in the forensic Barreiras photos (wonder why? Were there more?) and also if you note... its still dark with no signs of forensics changing the scene and likely taken the same nights but why has the book been moved?  One would think that photos would record the apartment as it was found.

Another question I have is that Maddie's pink jacket appears to be on the back of the chair.  If it is, why was it not given to the sniffer dogs that night as opposed to the blanket/towel (sorry can't recall)






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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 2:44

I find these photos interesting too...well spotted about the book, are there two, as the one in the first. photos with the pen on top looks as if it is mainly writing not colouring?  On the sideboard there is what looks to be a pink/beige cap... can anyone else confirm that? If it is who does it belong too, as I don't recall ever seeing KM wearing a baseball cap in any photos. 
I agree about the pink jacket, also looks like Gerrys green shirt ( is that the same one worn on the previous day? And slung on the sofa is that a pair of black trousers  or Gerrys dark green shorts? 



I think it was a towel which was given to the sniffer dogs...on saying that is that a blanket or towel on the back of the chair which looks to be an Aztec design? Was there not something about an Aztec design cloth found near a barn , or am I mistaken?

I think I need a magnifying glass to have a closer look... they do say every picture is worth more than a thousand words or something like that ?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by HiDeHo on 23.02.18 3:19











Apologies if a little off topic.
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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 3:37

The first photo ( Hideho has posted) It looks like there are pages of children's colouring offside to the colouring book... the second photo looks like writing and resting on a black slightly larger item than the book...is it a clipboard? 
As in the two smaller inset  photos there are two books and I think the one with the pen on top is a writing pad laying on top of perhaps a clipboard or maybe something else , the cover of the pad? 

The sideboard,  I still think it is a type of baseball cap as it looks to have a peak at the front...I suppose it could be a child's sun hat ? 

Behind the chair wíth the towel/blanket is that a dark bag or suitcase? 

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 23.02.18 10:37

Re G.A's comments about who gave the press the playground picture with Balu in it and why it was published. IMO the point he was making was that this particular picture could in no way help in assisting the search for, or in identifying Madeleine, since her face is not visible. There were already other pictures in wide circulation for this purpose which did show her face. What does this picture show - Gerry McCann and his children having a wonderful time in the playground, with Gerry obviously a doting, attentive Dad. At the time it was published the McCanns were coming under increasing criticism for spending next to no time with their kids on a "family" holiday. They admitted dumping them in creche all day for as long as they possibly could and then rushing them off to bed so they could go out and enjoy themselves. I took it to be G.A reacting cynically to this ploy as he comments in his book about how astonished the investigators were by such an apparent lack of desire to spend time with their children. IMO, suggestions that it was to cast suspicion on Murat (whom the general public reading these papers would never know had been photographed on the searches with Balu) are a little far-fetched.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 12:06



Gerry McCann, Madeleine McCann, Sean McCann - the third child is not a McCann child.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 12:14

Amelie just seen in the doorway ...


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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 12:21

There are numerous playground photos albeit many are black/white and difficult to view, it can be seen it is of the family with the children. 
In KMs statement of 4th May @2.20   She says that this is the routine for the week,  after lunch they take them to play, and after the afternoon pick up. 

12.30pm, the parents would collect their children and have lunch in their apartment since they have provisions. After lunch, at around 1.30pm, the children spend time close to the club's swimming pool, supervised by the parents, for about 45 minutes, where they play and have sun cream applied. After this time, they take the children to the "Kids Club" until around 5/5.30pm, the time when the children eat in a bar under the watchful gaze of the parents. After the 5pm dinner, they give the children a bath, prepare them for the night and let them play for a while in a playground next to the tennis courts, still and always under parental supervision. At around 8pm, the children are put to bed until the following morning when the described routines start all over again. While the children are at the "Kids Club," the interviewee played tennis with her husband, went for walks, read or went "Jogging." 


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 23.02.18 12:22

CR 2 page 113

From the Letter of Request:


* Interview to RAJINDER RAJ BALU as a witness, 62, BIXXXXXXXX ROXX, HeXXXXXXX, Brentwood, Essex. He should be asked the following questions :

* Do you confirm your previous statements to the British Police ?

* What did you do on 3rd May, 2007, between 6.00 p.m. and 11.00 p.m. ?

* How did you get to know that a child was missing ?

* Did you take part in the searches ? Where and with whom did you look for the missing girl ?

* Do you know a man identified as NEIL BERRY ? Who is he ? How did you know him ? Did you travel together to Portugal ? Did he travel to Portugal with his family ?

* State clearly who went to buy the food at the TAPAS RESTAURANT, what food was it and the way taken.

* Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies.

* Is there any supplementary explanation that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth ?
----------

08-Cartas Rogatorias File 08, pgs. 3, 4

TRANSLATION BY INES

Leicestershire Police Squad

Testimony of: Rajinder Raj Singh BALU


This testimony (comprised of two pages and signed by me) is the truth and in accordance with my understanding. I give this testimony with the knowledge that, knowingly making false statements may subject me to legal action.

Date: 28 May 2008
Signature:

I am the above referenced person and live at the address previously given to the police.

On the 23rd of April of 2008, I spoke with DC 433 Hughes of the Leicestershire Police with regard to certain aspects relating to the Madeleine McCann investigation. I was informed that these questions emanate from a formal request from the Portuguese authorities. I am aware that my testimony is subject to the Portuguese Criminal Code and to English Law.

I did not ask to see my original statements in order to refresh my memory. I confirm that these statements are correct.

The following are answers to the questions in the following order:

With relation to my movements on Thursday, May 3, 2007, between 18:00 and 23:00.

At 16:45 my son was lunching with other children in the Tapas area.

From 15:30 onwards, the bar was full, as normally happened, with the majority of people there. Neil and E*** were having a drink with my wife and I. We had a table reserved in the restaurant for that night, but they were not able to arrange a table and for this reason we decided to leave our table and ate together in their apartment using takeaway service.

My wife left the bar and took our son back to the apartment and E***, Neil’s wife, also took her children to their apartment. Neil and I stayed at the bar drinking and talking with J*** J***** and A*** W******. Neil and I eventually left the bar after 19:00. I don’t remember if we left together or not.

I returned to my apartment and got ready to go out for dinner.

Around 19:00, together with my wife and son, we headed to the Berry apartment. When we arrived, Neil was having problems in assembling a cot, which was placed there for my son. We had to head to the Mark Warner service desk and they sent someone to help us.

Sometime between 19:45 and 20:00, Neil and I left the apartment and went to the Tapas restaurant. We ordered our food and had a drink whilst waiting for the food to arrive. We returned around 20:15-20:30.

We returned the Berry apartment and all of us ate on the veranda.

With regard to the question as to how I became aware a child had gone missing and my involvement in the searches;

After 22:00 we were still sitting on the veranda in the Berry apartment. We heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. My testimony dated 6th of May 2007 related the details of the conversation we overheard and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches. I cannot add any more details save those which have already been given in this testimony.

With relation to Neil Barry;

I did not travel with Neil not did we know each other prior to the holidays but got to know each other on the first day and got along well. Neil was there with his wife and two daughters. We discovered later that our spouses had worked separately but for the same firm. We did not pass the day together but socialised occasionally at night. Neil and I spent two times together watching football games in the local bar.

With relation to the food at the Tapas bar;

I went to order food with Neil. It was a takeaway order. I remember that I had a plate of grilled chicken, beef and salad. We also had chips and four bottles of red wine.

I cannot think of more information or explanations that would be relevant or could help the investigation.

This testimony was made by me and is the truth and in accordance with my understanding.

THE END

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 23.02.18 12:46

After 22:00 we were still sitting on the veranda in the Berry apartment. We heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. My testimony dated 6th of May 2007 related the details of the conversation we overheard and the information regarding the paper that Neil and I used in the searches. I cannot add any more details save those which have already been given in this testimony.




As has been said before without the 6th May statement we are not privy to what was said. 
I wonder what the paper was used in the search? Would this perhaps be a photo of Madeleine, but why not say a photo, or was it a map or a list of where to search? 


I find Berry and Balu testimonies at odds with each other. 

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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