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Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 0:52

Madeleine McCann - the holiday photographs

1. Ocean Club playground - Madeleine at door of playhouse
2. Ocean Club playground - Madeleine playing with her father, Gerry McCann and brother Sean.
3. Madeleine on tennis court clutching tennis balls
4. Ocean Club swimming pool - Madeleine with her father and sister Amelie, sitting at poolside.

Photographs 1. and 2.
Man in background appears to be looking into the distance.
Bruno Press - photograph taken on 2nd May 2007 by friend of the McCanns.

Photograph 3.
Provenance not identifed. Conflicting versions by the McCanns and their friends on when, where and why the photograph was taken. Inconclusive.

Photograph 4.
Said to have been taken by Kate McCann on Thursday 3rd May 2007.
----------

The poolside photograph

If taking into consideration the compelling evidence deduced by years of research and analysis into the provenance of the poolside photograph, that this photograph was most likely taken on Sunday 29th April 2007, then the logical conclusion is the date and time of the photograph has been adjusted.

Madeleine wearing her new holiday posh frock most probably worn for the first time at the beginning on the holiday whilst fresh and new.

The playground photographs

If taking into consideration the compelling evidence deduced by years of research and analysis into the provenance of the playground photographs, that these photographs were most likely taken on the day of arrival at the Ocean Club on Saturday 28th April 2007, then the logical conclusion is the date and time of the photograph has been adjusted.

Whether or not Madeleine was wearing the same leggings on the flight to Portugal and in the playground is not really relevant. She fell up the aircraft steps, she grazed her leg - maybe she was dressed in longer pants to protect the graze or maybe at the time of day it was getting a bit chilly - who knows.

One thing however is apparent - Madeleine's complexion is pale, she is dressed for a bit of playground rough and tumble just as one would expect of an excited child only just starting their holiday adventure. The photograph was said to have been taken by a friend of the McCanns - could this have been David Payne when he was enjoying 'twizzing' Madeleine. It would at least explain why the photograph was included in the PJ files, whereas the poolside photograph was not.

Madeleine was not dressed appropriately for any of the crèche activities scheduled for the week so, outside of the first day - Saturday 28th April, what occasion was there for Madeleine to be dressed in such an outfit as seen in the playground photographs?



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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 1:34

Re holiday photos, there is  also Madeleine by the tree timestamped 17.15 2nd May. This again  is a coloured photo which looks to be cropped as there is a greyscale photo in a link just underneath in the list. No. 588 B...MBM and other  child In play area. 
A little girl is with her, not sure who it is...is it Ella? She is wearing a striped top. In brackets it says unidentified blonde girl with bob haircut?  Then 589a but that photo doesn't appear to be in the files so not sure if relates to 588B or 589a? 

Photo 1... Madeleine by arch door of playhouse also shows Amalie's backside, wearing maroon top and Pink & white trouser bottoms.

Clothes suitable for crèche activities can be exactly what Madeleine is wearing in the photos. There is no uniform for the crèche is there?

Poolside photo may not have been available for the 9th May when these were collated? However Analysis of two CD as provided by Gerry McCann ( would he not have the poolside photo on the disc if KM took it?) and Michael Wright, I am assuming these were a collection of photos for the PJ? 
Stand to be corrected if I have misinterpreted this.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 1:50

According to Dr. Amaral's book the playground photo was taken by the McCanns - 
 Chapter 5 - "We also examine the photos taken by the McCanns during their holiday. In one of them Gerald McCann is seen playing with his children in the Tapas restaurant play area......"
It is not just Madeleine who has changed her clothes but also Lily, Amelie and Gerry. In any case, there is no evidence whatsoever of a cut, blood or damage to Madeleine's "airport" trousers in the video which was taken after her fall, so I doubt this was the reason for the clothes change.
There is no one to corroborate when the last photo was taken, however, there is a witness who was actually in the playground photo and he was interviewed about it. He must have been asked when and why he came to be in a photo beside the McCanns. 
Madeleine is pale-skinned with a ginger tones in her hair. I doubt she tans easily. Spending large portions of her day indoors in creche is also not conducive to tanning, even for those who darken easily. I doubt she would have achieved a tan by Tuesday. In any case, sunscreen would ensure that she would not be bronzed within two and a half days. 
From the accounts of the T 9 and indeed other holiday makers there was "rough and tumble" after tea every day and I'm sure the children's excitement at the prospect was not exclusively reserved for arrival day. Children of that age are generally always enthusiastic about playing.
I'm afraid I see no actual EVIDENCE that the playground photos were not taken on May 2nd as the P.J. seem to accept after receiving Balu's answers. The weather fits, the clothes are different to those we've seen worn on Saturday and there is a witness other than the T9 who can state definitively when it was taken.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 1:56

@Phoebe I'm confused about the "tan".... there are no photos of Madeleine having a tan and wasn't that one of the reasons  the "pool/last photos" was determined to have been taken earlier.... pale skin?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by BlueBag on 22.02.18 7:25

"We also examine the photos taken by the McCanns during their holiday. In one of them Gerald McCann is seen playing with his children in the Tapas restaurant play area......"




Sean is wearing the same clothes.
Madeleine is wearing the same top.
That isn't Amelie in the playground.
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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by jazega on 22.02.18 8:58

Very interesting

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 9:29

Playground Photos.
Amelie is in the photo by the playhouse with a change of clothes, it's on the link posted previously.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 10:09

In the photo of Madeleine taken standing at the door of the Wendy house you can make out a child's backside and body. The P.J. have identified her as Amelie, wearing different clothes to those on the airport video. The child sitting on the grass seems to be Lily Payne who has been pictured elsewhere in the same striped top. This is not what she wears in the airport video, in that she has a plain white top on.Page 587 Amelie's backside in playhouse, maroon top and pink-white dacks, 587a 599c MBM  

Madeleine
: pink tracksuit, seen with Lily . Pages: 578c running, 587a, 588b, 591a, 599b, 599c, 608b, 609a, 601b
 Lilypinky striped top, blue jeans   seen with Maddy pages

The P.J. have taken note of the clothing worn as part of their analysis and note that Sean Sean, airport clothes, olive green striped top, pale trousers, Page: 578c (crouching), 591a, b, 597a,  606a 608b, 614a,

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 11:37

adults and children in play area, Gerry, Russell, Kate, Sean , Madeleine, Lily, Ella, who is the other child? (  578 in files) 


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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 12:43

@MayMuse  Being black and white it is difficult to make out. Gerry is definitely the man in the left foreground - his profile is unmistakable, even in silhouette! It seems to be Kate facing the camera. If so, she is wearing a different T-shirt to the one under her hoodie on the airport bus. It was low-necked, this is high-necked. If it is Fiona Payne then she too has changed her clothing from the airport bus in which she wore an open necked blouse and cardigan. It cannot be Jane or Rachel due to the hair length and colour. The children appear to be Sean, Amelie (same top as in the playhouse) Lily Payne (behind the woman) and Madeleine on her knees in front of her. The little girl walking away is recorded as "Ella with fluffy hair" by the analyst. However, in the absence of clear picture it is impossible to state for certain.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 12:45

There appears to be some confusion as regards analysis of the Tapas groups holiday photographs referenced in the PJ files.  The subjects captured in the images were not individually identified by the PJ - this is the work of ALYBM a translator, one of the many volunteers who have devoted their time and skills in the name of Madeleine McCann with additional help by CMoMM member HiDeHo.  

It's clearly identified in the file translation, I quote ..

TRANSLATION BY ALBYM

They are my own descriptions, and yes, almost all of the B&W (non-grey scale) images do not readily permit identification of the individual. They were created for the PDF using what is is known as 'pure Black and White' scanning/printing - there are no other colours whatsoever in the images.
File notes - 9 May:

PDF Apenso Desc.
12  549    Analysis of CD delivered by GM
13  550    Analysis of CD delivered by M Wright
14  551    Image grouping index: (1)Apartments; (2)Ocean Club; (3)Beach
15  552    Blank page
16  553    Receipt of images dated 8 May
17  554    Receipt of images dated 8 May (same words; different signature)
18  555    Blank page

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
----------

Back to basics - Gerry McCann and his friend Michael Wright delivered digital camera CDs to the PJ on request.  There was some lapse of time between the PJ request and delivery of the CDs, enough time to sort through camera memories and carefully select/delete images, or to adjust data.  Clearly this is what happened, otherwise they would have just handed over all their camera equipment (including mobile phone footage), not CDs prepared in advance. In fairness to Mr Amaral and the PJ, how the heck could they know for certain who took the photographs and/or whose camera was used, the focus of the investigation at the time was abduction so I doubt there was any other reason why the photographic imagery was of interest.

The primary reason for this requirement, the same reason quoted by Jim Gamble ex of the CEOP (cough!), was to identify any individual in the photographs outside of the McCann family and their group of friends, that perhaps shouldn't have been there.  Nothing sinister, just routine policing.

The onus is back in the McCann court.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 12:50

@Phoebe wrote:@MayMuse  Being black and white it is difficult to make out. Gerry is definitely the man in the left foreground - his profile is unmistakable, even in silhouette! It seems to be Kate facing the camera. If so, she is wearing a different T-shirt to the one under her hoodie on the airport bus. It was low-necked, this is high-necked. If it is Fiona Payne then she too has changed her clothing from the airport bus in which she wore an open necked blouse and cardigan. It cannot be Jane or Rachel due to the hair length and colour. The children appear to be Sean, Amelie (same top as in the playhouse) Lily Payne (behind the woman) and Madeleine on her knees in front of her. The little girl walking away is recorded as "Ella with fluffy hair" by the analyst. However, in the absence of clear picture it is impossible to state for certain.
@Phoebe Yes, the names mentioned are from the files minus one child's name as I counted 5 children...the other man is said to be Russell, it could well be if that is what they determined. I get confused  between RUssell and Matthew. It appears that this is a playground picture, could it be the same day as the ones already discussed?

Were these photos grey/black/white when given to the Pj or is it because they have printed them?
Edit to add verdis information...does this mean  Translated from the original files if so were these photos grey originally as its odd that just a few are in colour and others blackened?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by nglfi on 22.02.18 15:51

Can I just clarify, the subjects in the images were identified by ALYBM, but where they state


Page_588Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007,

with reference to the photo of Madeleine by the play house, where does this information come from? Was it the PJ who either dated or accepted the date provided to them by the Tapas group?

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 19:42

@nglfi wrote:Can I just clarify, the subjects in the images were identified by ALYBM, but where they state


Page_588Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007,

with reference to the photo of Madeleine by the play house, where does this information come from? Was it the PJ who either dated or accepted the date provided to them by the Tapas group?
From what I've  read and understand it would have been the PJ as ALYBM did the translation of their files, so cannot see why they would add dates or anything else for that matter to an official investigative file. However,  stand to be corrected, perhaps someone else knows better and can clarify what was added, if anything?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 21:29

@nglfi wrote:Can I just clarify, the subjects in the images were identified by ALYBM, but where they state


Page_588Page 588- MBM taken in Portugal at 17:15 on Wednesday May 2, 2007,

with reference to the photo of Madeleine by the play house, where does this information come from? Was it the PJ who either dated or accepted the date provided to them by the Tapas group?

As I said up-page, Bruno Press record the image as being taken by a friend of the McCanns, the date is specified as 2nd May 2007 but there is no indication as to the provenance of this information.

Yesterday I also saw reference to the image being from the McCann family photograph pool - make of that what you will.  Realistically, the information could only have come from the McCanns or a source close to the family

I've just tried to locate the source but was distracted by a someone suggesting the bald bloke in the playground was a PJ officer, detailed to trail and watch Madeleine McCann and if you look carefully at the image, you will see someone below the bald bloke peeping through the playhouse at the McCanns.

spit coffee

I'm still laughing now.

ETA: Apparently you have to blow the image up. With pleasure bomb !

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by NickE on 22.02.18 21:38

Candidates?

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 21:47

I frankly can't understand why this connectionis being made between the bald man in the playground, Raj Balu and Robert Murat.

The  bald bloke in the playground was interviewed and eliminated from the investigation.  He was just a tourist - he was even dressed like a tourist.
 
Although the original statement of Raj Balu said to have been taken in May 2007 is missing, I think it can be safely concluded that he was a person of interest because of his connection with Neil Berry.  Neil Berry was said to have been seen lurking in the stairwell within the apartment block occupied by the McCann family.

The other bald bloke people are trying to compare with the playground bloke and Raj Balu, would appear to be Robert Murat's lawyer.  I posted the image a while ago - I'll see if I can find it again in due course.

On the other hand I might not bother.  This really is a red herring. Just look around you - there are hundreds of bald men, they can't all be the same person.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 21:56

Does anyone know the exact time delay that is alleged to have occurred in handing over to the police the discs etc. from the cameras? According to Goncalo Amaral in his book-

 Chapter 3, subtitled "Friday May 4th" reads -

 ".. each holiday-maker takes, in general, hundreds of photos. The McCanns and their friends who were in Vila de Luz make all of theirs available to the investigators"..,

Then in the files Stuart Martin writes a report on May 9th stating that -

"On 8th of May at 21.00 hours the following was delivered to my home address (U.K) by P.C. 178 Barham"....

He goes on to describe receiving the photograhic equipment and memory cards. 
He then says he began his analyses the following morning, May 9th. Am I wrong in interpreting this to mean that the P.J. had the cameras and memory cards by May 4th and they were then sent to England arriving in time to be delivered to Stuart Martin on May 8th at 9p.m.?

@ Verdi. The point being made that Raj Balu, bald or not, was captured in a photo said to have been taken the evening before Madeleine's disappearance. He was interviewed about this. He must have corroborated the day during this interview when accounting for why and how he came to be there since the P.J accept it was taken on May 2nd.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 22:35

@Phoebe wrote:Does anyone know the exact time delay that is alleged to have occurred in handing over to the police the discs etc. from the cameras? According to Goncalo Amaral in his book-

 Chapter 3, subtitled "Friday May 4th" reads -

 ".. each holiday-maker takes, in general, hundreds of photos. The McCanns and their friends who were in Vila de Luz make all of theirs available to the investigators"..,

Then in the files Stuart Martin writes a report on May 9th stating that -

"On 8th of May at 21.00 hours the following was delivered to my home address (U.K) by P.C. 178 Barham"....

He goes on to describe receiving the photograhic equipment and memory cards. 
He then says he began his analyses the following morning, May 9th. Am I wrong in interpreting this to mean that the P.J. had the cameras and memory cards by May 4th and they were then sent to England arriving in time to be delivered to Stuart Martin on May 8th at 9p.m.?

@ Verdi. The point being made that Raj Balu, bald or not, was captured in a photo said to have been taken the evening before Madeleine's disappearance. He was interviewed about this. He must have corroborated the day during this interview when accounting for why and how he came to be there since the P.J accept it was taken on May 2nd.
Regarding photos/cards/camera etc...this is how I interpreted it especially as Amaral states the 4th in his book.....the link is worth reading.. 
However 73 photos deleted? The following paragraphs. ,does this mean he retrieved them and they are the Ines produced? I'm not tech so bare with...
18. Using my forensic software I was able to locate 73 pictures files in the unallocated clusters which had been deleted and were no longer accessible to the camera user.

19. I produce a report containing each of these picture identification reference SWM/3019/01 to SWM/3019/43.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VIDEO_MEMORY.htm

It a,so states there was no time stamp set on the camera ...Olympus C50 camera and a memory cad holder which contained one card....is this the camera that is seen on the table at 5a? 


On the photos on this link, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm#oa8v3p549
Can someone confirm that the writing in blue is from the translator? 
And I've just seen that the grey black/white photos (scroll down, its headed at the start of the photos) were separated and identified by Hideho , perhaps Lizzy would know this?

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Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Crackfox on 22.02.18 22:41

I've just read a brilliant post by Textusa which I think nails it as far as RB and NB: 

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/two-men-and-baby-cot.html?m=1

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Crackfox on 22.02.18 22:46

The camera seen on the table of 5a was KM"s which she kept possession of and is the camera she claims the tennis ball and last photo were taken on. Not on the discs.

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Phoebe on 22.02.18 23:15

@ MayMuse I've followed your link to the files. As far as I can make out the letter from Inspector Hugo Ferreira dated 8th May '07 states that -
"Today we were given the photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine McCann was with so that they can be annexed to the process files."
I am assuming this means that by this stage the photos had been printed out and analysed to establish who was in them? 
Goncalo Amaral also states in the passage of his book entitled "May 4th" that none of the photos " Dating from the evening of the disappearance help us to understand what happened"
I presume he is referring to those taken at the Paraiso restaurant?

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Verdi on 22.02.18 23:27

@Phoebe wrote:@ Verdi. The point being made that Raj Balu, bald or not, was captured in a photo said to have been taken the evening before Madeleine's disappearance. He was interviewed about this. He must have corroborated the day during this interview when accounting for why and how he came to be there since the P.J accept it was taken on May 2nd.

Not if you look back to when this thread was rekindled from 2015, a few days ago.

ETA: When and by whom was he interviewed? Once established as a guest on holiday, why should he be expected to justify why and when he was at the playground

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by Doug D on 22.02.18 23:29

As with most things McCann, nothing really adds up.
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10649-olympus-camera-stuart-martin-the-photos
 
Inspector Paiva’s statements say that on 9th the photos contained on a CD delivered by GM (and also Michael Wright) were visualized and analysed, yet Stuart Martin didn’t put them onto CD until 9th, presumably quite late on in the day. These were taken from an Olympus C50 camera.
 
I find it hard to believe that the PJ would not have had an earlier look at the photos if the two cameras (plus VCR) had been available.
 
 KM was allegedly waiting in the police station in Portimao on the 10th flicking through the photos on her camera (Canon Powershot A620), making out her dated timeline of the holiday.
 
Really?
 
She, (nor the PJ) had not thought of doing that before?
 
Why would KM be allowed to keep her camera and memory card when the other card was being sent off for expert analysis? (This is the camera (or type of camera) seen in the initial 5A photos, on the table.)
 
Then the ‘last photo’ of Madeleine, supposedly taken on KM’s camera, showing what she actually looked like, rather than the released, much younger photo, doesn’t turn up until 24th May.
 
It makes no sense.
 
Chapter 14 of PeterMac’s e-book also looks at the camera nonsense:
 
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13435-chapter-14-the-last-photo-the-pool-photo

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Re: Madeleine McCann- bald man in playground

Post by MayMuse on 22.02.18 23:30

@Phoebe wrote:@ MayMuse I've followed your link to the files. As far as I can make out the letter from Inspector Hugo Ferreira dated 8th May '07 states that -
"Today we were given the photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine McCann was with so that they can be annexed to the process files."
I am assuming this means that by this stage the photos had been printed out and analysed to establish who was in them? 
Goncalo Amaral also states in the passage of his book entitled "May 4th" that none of the photos " Dating from the evening of the disappearance help us to understand what happened"
I presume he is referring to those taken at the Paraiso restaurant?
@Phoebe I think there were very limited photos of the 3rd...i.e...none showing Madeleine..could he mean that? 
I've just looked through each photo ...obviously there are the playground photos, yet mainly they are the Paynes family out  and about, beach etc..and some of the tennis courts of people playing although difficult to tell who is who... 
Then there is this..who are these guys? 

____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.” bingo

Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html

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