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The sitting room curtains

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 26.07.12 21:02

Rachel Mampily stated in her interview (can't remember if it was the PJ or the RI) that the shutters of the patio doors were closed.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Guest on 26.07.12 21:08

@tigger wrote:Rachel Mampily stated in her interview (can't remember if it was the PJ or the RI) that the]b] shutters[/b] of the patio doors were closed.
***
Que?
Do you have a link, please?
TA
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 26.07.12 21:54

Châtelaine wrote:
@tigger wrote:Rachel Mampily stated in her interview (can't remember if it was the PJ or the RI) that the]b] shutters[/b] of the patio doors were closed.
***
Que?
Do you have a link, please?
TA

PJ processos V pages 1292 - 1296
15/5/07


The window shutters of the McCann’s apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter.

At about 21.00 they were all seated at the restaurant. At 21.05 Gerry went to check on his children and returned minutes later. Jane also went to heck on her children before returning.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Guest on 26.07.12 22:13

Well found tigger, I thought I might have read that before. So they had to raise the shutters as well as battling through closed curtains? How do you raise the shutters from the outside?? They must have made an awful noise, the size of them.



Tigger is that the rogatory or earlier statement?
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Guest on 26.07.12 22:15

@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@tigger wrote:Rachel Mampily stated in her interview (can't remember if it was the PJ or the RI) that the]b] shutters[/b] of the patio doors were closed.
***
Que?
Do you have a link, please?
TA

PJ processos V pages 1292 - 1296
15/5/07


The window shutters of the McCann’s apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter.

At about 21.00 they were all seated at the restaurant. At 21.05 Gerry went to check on his children and returned minutes later. Jane also went to heck on her children before returning.
***
Good gracious... I missed that one ... So apart from functioning with the closed curtains of the patio doors, they also had to function with the closed shutters ... from the OUTSIDE ...? The mind boggles, if you'd pardon me.

ETA "snap" Candyfloss ;-)
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 26.07.12 22:30

[quote="candyfloss"]Well found tigger, I thought I might have read that before. So they had to raise the shutters as well as battling through closed curtains? How do you raise the shutters from the outside?? They must have made an awful noise, the size of them.



Tigger is that the rogatory or earlier statement?[/quote

15/5/07 PJ

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by joyce1938 on 27.07.12 10:17

well here we go again.  I thought it had been established that the shutters could not be opened from outside but needed to use the cords inside and pull the sh. up. it could have worked if said sh. were say halfway up, then if doors were not closed one mught push door back a little and bend down and sneak through  and make very little noise.  But of course, said shutters maybe were tight shut and no one used them.  Just a red herring?  In my opinion only.  Joyce1938
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tuom on 27.07.12 10:40

Is there anyway either via pictures or statements that we can verify that there was actually shutters on this patio door , and if yes that would make three elements to contend with, 1. shutters that can/cannot be opened from the outside; 2. sliding patio doors; 3. curtains ?

I think this would need to be clarified and then we can continue the debate IMO of course
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 27.07.12 10:53

@tuom wrote:Is there anyway either via pictures or statements that we can verify that there was actually shutters on this patio door , and if yes that would make three elements to contend with, 1. shutters that can/cannot be opened from the outside; 2. sliding patio doors; 3. curtains ?

I think this would need to be clarified and then we can continue the debate IMO of course

Yes, I have seen a photograph of these patio doors - they do have shutters. But where, I cannot recall.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Nina on 27.07.12 10:56

@tuom wrote:Is there anyway either via pictures or statements that we can verify that there was actually shutters on this patio door , and if yes that would make three elements to contend with, 1. shutters that can/cannot be opened from the outside; 2. sliding patio doors; 3. curtains ?

I think this would need to be clarified and then we can continue the debate IMO of course

There were certainly shutters at the parent's bedroom patio door, and these we were told were broken by GM, according to Kate, and mended on the monday by a handyman who also had to show KM how to use the washing machine yes

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Nina on 27.07.12 11:03

@tuom wrote:Is there anyway either via pictures or statements that we can verify that there was actually shutters on this patio door , and if yes that would make three elements to contend with, 1. shutters that can/cannot be opened from the outside; 2. sliding patio doors; 3. curtains ?

I think this would need to be clarified and then we can continue the debate IMO of course

Here you are tuom. I had to type in photographs of 5A in the search bit, not very good at links I am afraid.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tuom on 27.07.12 11:15

[quote="Nina"]
@tuom wrote:Is there anyway either via pictures or statements that we can verify that there was actually shutters on this patio door , and if yes that would make three elements to contend with, 1. shutters that can/cannot be opened from the outside; 2. sliding patio doors; 3. curtains ?

I think this would need to be clarified and then we can continue the debate IMO of course

Here you are tuom. I had to type in photographs of 5A in the search bit, not very good at links I am afraid.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id155.html[/quote]

Thank you Nina ! in the link you have posted if you got to section Apt 5A , scroll down to the piece where they mention no buyer for Apt 5A and there is a picture where you can clearly see the shutters on the outside , one is up but the other one is closed and clearly visible ,but they are there !! , there is also a good view of the curtains in this picture, I have tried and cannot post the picture, I will give it one more go.
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tuom on 27.07.12 11:20





Tried but I think its gone wrong !!
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Guest on 27.07.12 11:21

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Guest on 27.07.12 11:26





More photos here of courtyard and shutters..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id129.html
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Nina on 27.07.12 11:34

candyfloss wrote:



More photos here of courtyard and shutters..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id129.html

thank you candyfloss you are not called super duper moderator for nothing roses
So at each patio window there are 2 shutters. Sensible as they are very heavy when pulling up the chord, which will be inside the room one at each side of the door/window. Just one shutter would have been far too heavy to raise manually.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tuom on 27.07.12 11:50

It's Friday I know , but I am tired, one question , can these (sitting room shutters) be operated from the outside ??

So they left by the patio door and closed the shutters , well all this has me confused , back to reading again !!!!!
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by joyce1938 on 27.07.12 12:03

from what i understand from last few years reading abs debating,no i do not think shutters work from outside,even if are damaged and it did show pat brown and her assitant tried it on bedroom window, and as it was of late and poss. been damaged by the different people trying to test them from outside,it did show on picture ,that they did push up with effort ,but wouldnt stay up ba=ut drop back ,and not gone up enough to let anyone climb in ,if bedroom size.joyce1938
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 27.07.12 13:05

@joyce1938 wrote:from what i understand from last few years reading abs debating,no i do not think shutters work from outside,even if are damaged and it did show pat brown and her assitant tried it on bedroom window, and as it was of late and poss. been damaged by the different people trying to test them from outside,it did show on picture ,that they did push up with effort ,but wouldnt stay up ba=ut drop back ,and not gone up enough to let anyone climb in ,if bedroom size.joyce1938

The whole problem is - imo - that nobody bothered to do any checking, they aren't very observant people to start off with and they didn't think it was important.
Simple - get up to check your own children - just say you've checked 5a, no reason to actually do it. Say the shutters were lifted - could be lifted from outside, something none of them had ever tried.

Now - just one thought, if the repair was to do with the patio shutters, perhaps they did lift from the outside at that point, because the mechanism was broken.
Once mended, perhaps they thought they could still be lifted from the outside.

What RM says is clearly nonsense, what's the point of leaving the shutters on the patio doors down, lifting them with a lot of muscle and noise, just so that you could slip in easily via the patio doors.
They simply hadn't thought any of this out, as I said, they probably didn't think it was important. Turned out, the PJ did think it was - very important.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Nina on 27.07.12 13:51

As some other members I have shutters like these. Living in Spain they are for two reasons, to keep out the heat, or in winter keep the heat in, and also as security. They cannot be pushed up from the outside and stay up as they do not roll around the ratchet mechanism as they do when opened from the inside using the pulley. Using the pulley chord allows the blind to roll around the ratchet mechanism. So the only way to open them from the outside is with two or more people. One pushing and one propping up with bricks or wooden props. Hubby and I have tried it, as another poster did, and finished up with a broken shutter as it came off the ratchet and collapsed in a very heavy heap. Needless to say OH wasn't happy and said 'bloody McCanns'
They are noisey and heavy, even the smaller windows as the childrens bedroom would rattle and squeal.
However, with excessive pulling from the inside the blind can sometimes be rolled right up into the casing if the little stops are broken. many the time we have had to repair when guests visit us yes

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tuom on 27.07.12 21:39

@Nina wrote:As some other members I have shutters like these. Living in Spain they are for two reasons, to keep out the heat, or in winter keep the heat in, and also as security. They cannot be pushed up from the outside and stay up as they do not roll around the ratchet mechanism as they do when opened from the inside using the pulley. Using the pulley chord allows the blind to roll around the ratchet mechanism. So the only way to open them from the outside is with two or more people. One pushing and one propping up with bricks or wooden props. Hubby and I have tried it, as another poster did, and finished up with a broken shutter as it came off the ratchet and collapsed in a very heavy heap. Needless to say OH wasn't happy and said 'bloody McCanns'
They are noisey and heavy, even the smaller windows as the childrens bedroom would rattle and squeal.
However, with excessive pulling from the inside the blind can sometimes be rolled right up into the casing if the little stops are broken. many the time we have had to repair when guests visit us

I am not sure if I am missing something here or not , when the children were left in the apartment and K&GMC left via the patio doors , closed but unlocked with the curtains pulled ; are we now to believe that the shutters were also pulled down ?

On the checks were the shutters then pulled up from the outside , the patio doors opened , the curtains parted to go and check on the children?

Please correct me me if I am wrong but this does seem way OTT , think of the noise ! , was it the patio doors Rachel was referring to when she said the shutters were down , Ah yes GMC confusion is good !!!!
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by dentdelion on 27.07.12 22:19

And the late Mrs Fenn talked of hearing the patio doors open on the Tuesday night.... not the even more noisy shutters going up. Horrid to think of the kids left in such an environment with windows shuttered in such a way like a prison not to be able to see out. What possible reason was there to do this on the patio doors? to give a semblance of security to the casual observer?? Surely much simpler to go around to the front door even if it meant exchanging the key. Curiouser and curiouser.....
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by Olive_Boyle on 28.07.12 1:16

Quite Tuom.

However, what I'd like to know is did Bundleman supposedly leave from this route?

And how was this entrance blinds/door found when Kate Mc went to check and found Madeleine missing?

From experience of carrying my daughter in the way that bundleman supposedly did, I can barely manage to turn the light switch off let alone open doors or fiddle with curtains. Its extremely difficult to do anything with your hands in that position. But maybe that's just me.

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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by jd on 28.07.12 1:51

@Olive_Boyle wrote:
From experience of carrying my daughter in the way that bundleman supposedly did, I can barely manage to turn the light switch off let alone open doors or fiddle with curtains. Its extremely difficult to do anything with your hands in that position. But maybe that's just me.

jane tanner explains all here laughat .....Notice it is now not 'bundleman' but jane tanner herself who was carrying the child...'I..."



Comment on youtube: tanners e fit of the abductor is a joke it went from egg head man with no face , ending up as a female at the end..... how can we believe that, when she says it was at top of street in dark ,,, and facing away from her carrying child. totally false, jane tanner is covering for mccanns
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Re: The sitting room curtains

Post by tigger on 28.07.12 6:56

@Olive_Boyle wrote:Quite Tuom.

However, what I'd like to know is did Bundleman supposedly leave from this route?

And how was this entrance blinds/door found when Kate Mc went to check and found Madeleine missing?

From experience of carrying my daughter in the way that bundleman supposedly did, I can barely manage to turn the light switch off let alone open doors or fiddle with curtains. Its extremely difficult to do anything with your hands in that position. But maybe that's just me.

This topic just serves to prove that the 'evidence' and witness statements are seriously flawed.
The Tapas 7 weren't in on the real story at all imo, they must initially have been told what to say. All the shutters were closed would highlight the one shutter that wasn't. Until it became clear that didn't work. RM clearly forgot what lie she had to tell, I think she is the only one to be so specific about the patio doors.
I'd have to check, but I think the patio doors all opened on the 4th or the 5th of May, before that they were closed.
Dr. Roberts has written about this in 'Early Doors' (see McCannfiles.com).



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