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for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by aquila on 22.06.12 22:44

tcat wrote:I agree about the night of May 3/4, but by the end of May 4 PdL is full of press and TV and they're doing most of the work for him, spreading the abduction story and they're not bothering to do much investigating or wondering why Gerry interrupts Kate in her first speech to the press after she strays from the script in front of her. I think by then the press and TV are all caught up in the emotional explosion back in the UK, the way Blacksmith describes, and many of them are probably experiencing the emotion themselves - even hard bitten, cynical journalists. It's a awful lot easier to believe in the bogeyman being responsible than it is to start thinking about the alternative, and few people were that early I think. I know I wasn't, watching on TV (though I knew they were acting weirdly, I chose to ignore it)

The emergency services turn up to atrocious sights. The police generally turn up before any other service to civilian atrocities. There was no apparent atrocity in PDL. There was no heinous crime, no body, no child killing, there was simply a missing little girl. Hard-bitten, cynical journalists wouldn't bat an eyelid in that situation imo. It's just a good opportunity for a story. There was no emotional explosion in UK on that day other than a child had gone missing in Portugal. All this happened within hours of Madeleine's disappearance. Now that's a hell of a lot of contacts to get things rolling in such a short space of time imo.

ETA. Let's not do down our journalists. Journalists who cover murders/rapes/assaults and the subsequent trials are far more likely to feel emotional. What exactly was there to feel emotional about on 4th May to a seasoned reporter?
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Guest on 22.06.12 23:15

A lot of them were obviously all too ready to instantly believe the abduction claim, which we know the parents and their families were telling everyone about right from the start.

It's not just this case, we've seen the same with other cases - Soham and Jill Dando being the biggest and most obvious examples I think. I'm not saying all the reporters got caught up with it, but some probably did. Some cases just get everyone talking about them, and this case was definitely one of those. I'm pretty sure no other case had ordinary people donating so much money, not even Soham - and why would people do that if they're not getting caught up in the emotion of a young girl going missing? If the McCanns weren't middle-class, and doctors, then I think we all agree the publicity surrounding the case wouldn't have been anywhere near as large. The Shannon Matthews case didn't, because her parents didn't tick all the boxes the McCanns did.

I think people will disagree of course on whether the media coverage created the public concern, or whether it was the other way around - but I agree with what Blacksmith proposes. I know how people get caught up in these cases because I always do myself - I did with all of these cases, and can't get enough information when news of them breaks (the Ipswich murders was another one) because they remind us of our nightmares don't they? Especially in the case of a young girl in a foreign country. It's perfectly understandable I think that very many people feel emotionally involved with cases like these.
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by T4two on 23.06.12 0:39

@aquila wrote:
tcat wrote:I agree about the night of May 3/4, but by the end of May 4 PdL is full of press and TV and they're doing most of the work for him, spreading the abduction story and they're not bothering to do much investigating or wondering why Gerry interrupts Kate in her first speech to the press after she strays from the script in front of her. I think by then the press and TV are all caught up in the emotional explosion back in the UK, the way Blacksmith describes, and many of them are probably experiencing the emotion themselves - even hard bitten, cynical journalists. It's a awful lot easier to believe in the bogeyman being responsible than it is to start thinking about the alternative, and few people were that early I think. I know I wasn't, watching on TV (though I knew they were acting weirdly, I chose to ignore it)

The emergency services turn up to atrocious sights. The police generally turn up before any other service to civilian atrocities. There was no apparent atrocity in PDL. There was no heinous crime, no body, no child killing, there was simply a missing little girl. Hard-bitten, cynical journalists wouldn't bat an eyelid in that situation imo. It's just a good opportunity for a story. There was no emotional explosion in UK on that day other than a child had gone missing in Portugal. All this happened within hours of Madeleine's disappearance. Now that's a hell of a lot of contacts to get things rolling in such a short space of time imo.

ETA. Let's not do down our journalists. Journalists who cover murders/rapes/assaults and the subsequent trials are far more likely to feel emotional. What exactly was there to feel emotional about on 4th May to a seasoned reporter?

Exactly! Nothing whatsoever at that time - the emotion was stirred subsequently and it was initiated by Michell with his references to the Soham murders and his implication that Murat could be a kind of Ian Huntley was it not? And who was Mitchell taking his orders from at that particular time? If I recall - he didn't actually give up his job with the Media Monitoring Unit until some time later.
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Artificial insemination

Post by Guest on 23.06.12 8:14

Is there any chance that IVF-Kate and IVF Rebekkah knew each other in England before Maddie went to Portugal (if she did)?
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by PeterMac on 23.06.12 8:23

@aquila wrote:[...]. Let's not do down our journalists. Journalists who cover murders/rapes/assaults and the subsequent trials are far more likely to feel emotional. What exactly was there to feel emotional about on 4th May to a seasoned reporter?
I have sorted out the JC Olive Press thing with him. He was rung early that morning by both the Sun AND the Mail, and put "on shift" as he calls it.
Double pay and double expenses, which is apparently normal. So he went and stayed and wrote, until he couldn't justify staying any longer, then came home, and made a few more visits to top up the pay and expenses over the next few months.
He thought it was all pretty silly as he was driving over, and obviously did think M might have been found by the time he got there, but that was not his concern. He was on duty.
He was the first Brit journalist, apart from the women with the broken arm, whose name escapes me, who was on holiday there.
Which merely puts us one large step further back in the time scale. Who at the Sun and the Mail decided that it was going to be worth doing ? Or who told them ?

(Incidentally the first person he met was Murat.)

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by tigger on 23.06.12 8:39

I take back everything I've thought and said about JC. Clearly somebody who has the brains to research the Fitzpatrick case could have done the same for the McCann affair, but getting tied up in a multi million 'enterprise' by the needy Murdoch empire would stop the best of journalists.
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by PeterMac on 23.06.12 9:17

@tigger wrote:I take back everything I've thought and said about JC. Clearly somebody who has the brains to research the Fitzpatrick case could have done the same for the McCann affair, but getting tied up in a multi million 'enterprise' by the needy Murdoch empire would stop the best of journalists.
Well quite. We discussed it over a beer a few weeks ago, and I found he actually knew very little about the case. No reason why he should, of course. In the last 4 years he has covered thousands of stories, whereas I / we have covered just one. With Fitzpatrick I don't think anyone else has been involved, other than the Irish press, which seems to lack MI's power to corrupt, other than what he has syndicated to them from time to time.

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Nina on 23.06.12 9:37

@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:I take back everything I've thought and said about JC. Clearly somebody who has the brains to research the Fitzpatrick case could have done the same for the McCann affair, but getting tied up in a multi million 'enterprise' by the needy Murdoch empire would stop the best of journalists.
Well quite. We discussed it over a beer a few weeks ago, and I found he actually knew very little about the case. No reason why he should, of course. In the last 4 years he has covered thousands of stories, whereas I / we have covered just one. With Fitzpatrick I don't think anyone else has been involved, other than the Irish press, which seems to lack MI's power to corrupt, other than what he has syndicated to them from time to time.

Good morning PeterMac and Tigger. How the hec did he get from his home area to PdL in time to be there before lunchtime. Does he know a short cut I don't?

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by PeterMac on 23.06.12 9:57

He was rung very early in the morning, grabbed his bag, and went.
For me the question has merely been put back a step.

Who knew that M would not be found ? Within a couple of hours, dead at the bottom of a trench, dead by the side of a road hit by a car, floating in the sea, alive and playing hide and seek, alive in the local hospital, alive at the Police station trying to find out who she was, alive with a kindly neighbour waiting for first light to ring the police and say they had found her wandering ......

Who managed to convince the Sun, Mail, Sky et al. that she had been "abducted' and was not simply missing.
How did they convince the media of this within a few hours, so that the media would spend money on sending a journalist from an another country to investigate.

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Writing for Rupert Mrdoch

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.06.12 10:17

@PeterMac wrote:[Jon Clarke of The Olive Press]He was rung very early in the morning...

By whom?

At what time precisely?

With what instructions?

What time did he leave home?

What time did he arrive in Praia da Luz?

I suspect that Jon Clarke would be unable to answer these questions as it would affect his ability to carry on writing for Rupert Murdoch. But if you're reading this, Jon, I'd be delighted if you prove me wrong.

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Woofer on 23.06.12 10:50

@Portia wrote:Is there any chance that IVF-Kate and IVF Rebekkah knew each other in England before Maddie went to Portugal (if she did)?

Highly likely, considering they are the same age and come from the same area.
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by tigger on 23.06.12 12:31

@PeterMac wrote:He was rung very early in the morning, grabbed his bag, and went.
For me the question has merely been put back a step.

Who knew that M would not be found ? Within a couple of hours, dead at the bottom of a trench, dead by the side of a road hit by a car, floating in the sea, alive and playing hide and seek, alive in the local hospital, alive at the Police station trying to find out who she was, alive with a kindly neighbour waiting for first light to ring the police and say they had found her wandering ......

Who managed to convince the Sun, Mail, Sky et al. that she had been "abducted' and was not simply missing.
How did they convince the media of this within a few hours, so that the media would spend money on sending a journalist from an another country to investigate.

Someone already knew? Someone who might also have alerted the British Ambassador to Portugal so that he too, could arrive early in PdL. Imo the ambassador was told to go, there's no reason why he should concern himself with these holiday makers - a job for the local consul - at most the Consul General.
It would fit the interwoven pattern of politicians and media at the top of the ladder as seen in many other cases.
Which also argues for a much earlier alarm call - well before 3/5. imo Priming the pump so to speak.

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Cristobell on 23.06.12 13:32

@PeterMac wrote:He was rung very early in the morning, grabbed his bag, and went.
For me the question has merely been put back a step.

Who knew that M would not be found ? Within a couple of hours, dead at the bottom of a trench, dead by the side of a road hit by a car, floating in the sea, alive and playing hide and seek, alive in the local hospital, alive at the Police station trying to find out who she was, alive with a kindly neighbour waiting for first light to ring the police and say they had found her wandering ......

Who managed to convince the Sun, Mail, Sky et al. that she had been "abducted' and was not simply missing.
How did they convince the media of this within a few hours, so that the media would spend money on sending a journalist from an another country to investigate.





I don't understand why they did not wait for a ransom note, or contact of some sort from a kidnapper.

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Kate x Rebekkah = Maddie x Money?

Post by Guest on 23.06.12 13:38

If Kate and Rebekkah hail from the same region, and they both have the same infertility problems they appear to be having, is it totally beyond imagining they may have met before, at some hospital or IVF clinic, discussing their common predicament?

In this whole sorry affair, one thing is clear: it has been masterminded from the start and tightly controlled.
So: when was that start precisely? And who is the mastermind?

Who was in a position to order the British authorities to dispatch a senior ambassador to a sleepy hamlet to assist two negligent nobodies?
Who was proven afterward, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be able to do just that?

Who has the brains, the motive, the experience, the connections, the stamina and the sheer coldblooded brazenness to initiate such a scheme and milk it for every penny that could be squeezed out of it?

Making millions for themselves and some of the other participants?

Which Freud was that, in PdL? Which Murdoch?

Oh, and, by the way, where exactly was ms Rebekkah Wade at the time of the disappearance of Maddie McCann? Do we know whether she was there, at the NI/NOTW/Suns offices, waiting for THE midnight phonecall to kick off the whole diabolical Schlieffen Plan designed to make poor little Maddie famous and a Murdoch cash calve?

Kate & Gerry did not volunteer for the Leveson Inquiry without good cause and premeditation: after the Milly Dowler fiasco they had to be seen to be cutting the umblical cords with Murdoch and his lot. Including Rebekkah Dear.
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by bobbin on 23.06.12 14:10

@Portia wrote:If Kate and Rebekkah hail from the same region, and they both have the same infertility problems they appear to be having, is it totally beyond imagining they may have met before, at some hospital or IVF clinic, discussing their common predicament?

In this whole sorry affair, one thing is clear: it has been masterminded from the start and tightly controlled.
So: when was that start precisely? And who is the mastermind?

Who was in a position to order the British authorities to dispatch a senior ambassador to a sleepy hamlet to assist two negligent nobodies?
Who was proven afterward, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be able to do just that?

Who has the brains, the motive, the experience, the connections, the stamina and the sheer coldblooded brazenness to initiate such a scheme and milk it for every penny that could be squeezed out of it?

Making millions for themselves and some of the other participants?

Which Freud was that, in PdL? Which Murdoch?

Oh, and, by the way, where exactly was ms Rebekkah Wade at the time of the disappearance of Maddie McCann? Do we know whether she was there, at the NI/NOTW/Suns offices, waiting for THE midnight phonecall to kick off the whole diabolical Schlieffen Plan designed to make poor little Maddie famous and a Murdoch cash calve?

Kate & Gerry did not volunteer for the Leveson Inquiry without good cause and premeditation: after the Milly Dowler fiasco they had to be seen to be cutting the umblical cords with Murdoch and his lot. Including Rebekkah Dear.

Portia, this is just the sort of area I would be looking at closely too, but what about Brian Kennedy, where does he fit in. If paedophilia is a theme in this sad affair, then isn't Brooks interested in putting names of paedophiles out into the public arena......or is this threat another powerful stranglehold on those who would not wish the register to be public, and will therefore do her bidding.

I wonder what sort of a network she will still be able to 'manage' from her prison cell or will she just 'go free' on a technicality and harvest her rewards afterwards, keeping the plates spinning and keeping important people either on their toes or, at her behest, on their knees.

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by jd on 23.06.12 14:14

@tigger wrote: Someone already knew? Someone who might also have alerted the British Ambassador to Portugal so that he too, could arrive early in PdL. Imo the ambassador was told to go, there's no reason why he should concern himself with these holiday makers - a job for the local consul - at most the Consul General.
It would fit the interwoven pattern of politicians and media at the top of the ladder as seen in many other cases.
Which also argues for a much earlier alarm call - well before 3/5. imo Priming the pump so to speak.

The owner of the Ocean Club is David Symington. David's nephew John Symington is (was) Britains' Honorary Consul in Porto and a colleague of former British Ambassador in Portugal John Buck (who was consul to the McCanns)

Justice Hogg is made the 'legal guardian' (ward of court) of Madeleine McCann. Justice Hogg's sister-in-law is Baroness Hogg (Sarah Hogg) former Head of the Downing Street Policy Unit for Sir John Major and former Chief Govenor at the BBC (she is also a Blair ally). Baroness Hogg's 3i company invests in Brian Kennedy and Control Risks Group.
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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by tigger on 23.06.12 15:26

@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote: Someone already knew? Someone who might also have alerted the British Ambassador to Portugal so that he too, could arrive early in PdL. Imo the ambassador was told to go, there's no reason why he should concern himself with these holiday makers - a job for the local consul - at most the Consul General.
It would fit the interwoven pattern of politicians and media at the top of the ladder as seen in many other cases.
Which also argues for a much earlier alarm call - well before 3/5. imo Priming the pump so to speak.

The owner of the Ocean Club is David Symington. David's nephew John Symington is (was) Britains' Honorary Consul in Porto and a colleague of former British Ambassador in Portugal John Buck (who was consul to the McCanns)

Justice Hogg is made the 'legal guardian' (ward of court) of Madeleine McCann. Justice Hogg's sister-in-law is Baroness Hogg (Sarah Hogg) former Head of the Downing Street Policy Unit for Sir John Major and former Chief Govenor at the BBC (she is also a Blair ally). Baroness Hogg's 3i company invests in Brian Kennedy and Control Risks Group.

splat Oof!!

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Badboys on 23.06.12 15:35

@Portia wrote:If Kate and Rebekkah hail from the same region, and they both have the same infertility problems they appear to be having, is it totally beyond imagining they may have met before, at some hospital or IVF clinic, discussing their common predicament?

In this whole sorry affair, one thing is clear: it has been masterminded from the start and tightly controlled.
So: when was that start precisely? And who is the mastermind?

Who was in a position to order the British authorities to dispatch a senior ambassador to a sleepy hamlet to assist two negligent nobodies?
Who was proven afterward, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be able to do just that?

Who has the brains, the motive, the experience, the connections, the stamina and the sheer coldblooded brazenness to initiate such a scheme and milk it for every penny that could be squeezed out of it?

Making millions for themselves and some of the other participants?

Which Freud was that, in PdL? Which Murdoch?

Oh, and, by the way, where exactly was ms Rebekkah Wade at the time of the disappearance of Maddie McCann? Do we know whether she was there, at the NI/NOTW/Suns offices, waiting for THE midnight phonecall to kick off the whole diabolical Schlieffen Plan designed to make poor little Maddie famous and a Murdoch cash calve?

Kate & Gerry did not volunteer for the Leveson Inquiry without good cause and premeditation: after the Milly Dowler fiasco they had to be seen to be cutting the umblical cords with Murdoch and his lot. Including Rebekkah Dear.

THE late clement freud ,a relative of matthew? freud who married elizabeth murdoch

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by friedtomatoes on 23.06.12 21:01

i forgot to mention kate mccann, says she would never act like people online but she calls police officers fkn t**** smashes beds, never for a second went out that night to search, not a nanosecond to search for her child, no mother would bot do this, and slags off people who tried to help and also professionals who had no vested interestes but were dloing their job, bit defensive our katie, how about answering all those questions, after all u said would leave n o stone unturned,

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by guest. on 23.06.12 21:15

@friedtomatoes wrote:i forgot to mention kate mccann, says she would never act like people online but she calls police officers fkn t**** smashes beds, never for a second went out that night to search, not a nanosecond to search for her child, no mother would bot do this, and slags off people who tried to help and also professionals who had no vested interestes but were dloing their job, bit defensive our katie, how about answering all those questions, after all u said would leave n o stone unturned,
katey is a liar just like her pinocchio hubby i hope theyboth end up in JAIL where they BELONG



That's another thing I don't get is why they hate the online critics so much:-

a) It doesn't affect the search (no matter what they say)

b) All the people going throught the files are extra unpaid helpers because even though they don't believe the McCanns

I'm sure if anybody noticed something in the files that could help in the search for Madeliene no matter who it made guilty

or innocent they would highlight it.

c) It doesn't really affect public opinion as most people unfortunately form their opinions from the papers

To me the only reason to hate the active critics so much is that they could cause them problems by uncovering something which wouldn't

be possible if they were innocent

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Ribisl on 24.06.12 7:36

It would be interesting to list the ways their body language and words betray they are telling lies.

Gerry
Rubs his nose
Scratches his ear
Blinks incessantly
Smirks
Gulps
Gets aggressive towards the interviewer
Walks out of a interview

Kate
Flapps her arms and hands
Talks in the third person
Looks pained
'To be honest...'

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by ShuBob on 24.06.12 12:29

This question may be off-topic for this thread but I'd like to know if journalists are obliged to report anomalies to the police i.e. statements which have been proven to be lies given by the McCanns and their cohorts to various journalists? Lori Campbell made up her own tales to tell about Murat but do journalists (regular rather than investigative) usually help the police in this way?

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Misprision of a felony

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.06.12 14:15

@ShuBob wrote:This question may be off-topic for this thread but I'd like to know if journalists are obliged to report anomalies to the police i.e. statements which have been proven to be lies given by the McCanns and their cohorts to various journalists? Lori Campbell made up her own tales to tell about Murat but do journalists (regular rather than investigative) usually help the police in this way?
ShuBob, it is a criminal offence ('Misprision of felony') NOT to report a crime of which you are aware:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misprision

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by ShuBob on 24.06.12 14:53

Thanks Tony.

I would imagine it would be more likely for journalists to report anomalies to police in cases like those of Karen Matthews and the Philpotts. In the Chris Huhne/Vicky Pryce case, the CPS had to go to court to compel the Sunday Times to reveal potential evidence. I don't imagine David James Smith, author of "Beyond the smears" would have run to the police at the earliest opportunity after reading facts in the archiving despatch.

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Re: for the benefit of Carter-Ruck. Your clients LIE

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.06.12 15:03

@ShuBob wrote:Thanks Tony.

I would imagine it would be more likely for journalists to report anomalies to police in cases like those of Karen Matthews and the Philpotts. In the Chris Huhne/Vicky Pryce case, the CPS had to go to court to compel the Sunday Times to reveal potential evidence. I don't imagine David James Smith, author of "Beyond the smears" would have run to the police at the earliest opportunity after reading facts in the archiving despatch.
He might however have got on the blower to Dr Gerald McCann and asked: "Are you sure that your Achilles tendon injury stopped you from playing tennis when you were 'knocking up' at the 4.30pm tennis lesson?"

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