The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

Please note that when you register your username must be different from your email address!


The Priests

Page 10 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Nina on 28.07.15 21:19

@aquila wrote:
@tinkier wrote:The Eucharist, which is also called the Holy Communion, Mass, the Lord's Supper or the Divine Liturgy, is a sacrament accepted by almost all Christians.
It's normal for a Eucharist service to invite people who are not of a particular denomination to come forward if they want to receive a blessing. Depending on which church you attend, you can make your way forward with those who are partaking in Holy Communion by folding your arms with your hands crossed shoulder to shoulder to indicate you are not confirmed. The priest then knows to bless you. I believe there is a photograph of Haynes-Hubbard blessing KM in this way.
Here you are aquila........................

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4853p210-interview-with-father-haynes-hubbard-5-year-on



(snipped from news.bbc.co.uk, 11th May 2007)

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 339
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 75

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by worriedmum on 28.07.15 21:32

But Kate isn't folding her arms. And it looks like she has something pinched between her fingers....
avatar
worriedmum

Posts : 1869
Reputation : 459
Join date : 2012-01-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Nina on 28.07.15 21:37

@worriedmum wrote:But Kate isn't folding her arms. And it looks like she has something pinched between her fingers....
The host, the bread/wafer?

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
avatar
Nina

Posts : 2861
Reputation : 339
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 75

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Guest on 28.07.15 21:37

[quote="worriedmum"]But Kate isn't folding her arms. And it looks like she has something pinched between her fingers....[/quote]
==========

The Body of Christ (Catholic)
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Holy Father...?

Post by missbeetle on 29.07.15 0:59

Another interesting old photograph has come to light via Facebook :



Date, place and priest unknown...

...but I believe that to be Kate Healy with her parents.

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by lj on 29.07.15 5:55

@aquila wrote:
@tinkier wrote:The Eucharist, which is also called the Holy Communion, Mass, the Lord's Supper or the Divine Liturgy, is a sacrament accepted by almost all Christians.
It's normal for a Eucharist service to invite people who are not of a particular denomination to come forward if they want to receive a blessing. Depending on which church you attend, you can make your way forward with those who are partaking in Holy Communion by folding your arms with your hands crossed shoulder to shoulder to indicate you are not confirmed. The priest then knows to bless you. I believe there is a photograph of Haynes-Hubbard blessing KM in this way.

But that is the Anglican service you are talking about, isn't it aquila?

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
avatar
lj

Posts : 3327
Reputation : 200
Join date : 2009-12-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by aquila on 29.07.15 5:57

@lj wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@tinkier wrote:The Eucharist, which is also called the Holy Communion, Mass, the Lord's Supper or the Divine Liturgy, is a sacrament accepted by almost all Christians.
It's normal for a Eucharist service to invite people who are not of a particular denomination to come forward if they want to receive a blessing. Depending on which church you attend, you can make your way forward with those who are partaking in Holy Communion by folding your arms with your hands crossed shoulder to shoulder to indicate you are not confirmed. The priest then knows to bless you. I believe there is a photograph of Haynes-Hubbard blessing KM in this way.

But that is the Anglican service you are talking about, isn't it aquila?
Yes lj. Father HH is an Anglican. It does get confusing (well for me anyway).

Thanks Nina for posting up the photo - and yes it does look like a wafer.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8820
Reputation : 1777
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by lj on 29.07.15 5:58

@Honeyblade wrote:Participated in the Eucharist ?
Is that not receiving communion .. Sorry if I made mistake in CofE Eucharist is the sacrament ..
Apologies for mistake ...

It talks about an eucharistic celebration, which sounds like the whole service. 

I don't doubt they participated in the Anglican "communion", I doubt they went for the catholic one.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
avatar
lj

Posts : 3327
Reputation : 200
Join date : 2009-12-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Honeyblade on 29.07.15 9:51

n Sunday, at around 9.30 a.m., the McCann family walked to the parochial church in order to, together with the other worshippers, participate in the Eucharistic celebration which also included the intention of little Maddie. During the Mass, the head of the celebration also tried to motivate the entire Christian community (including the foreigners that attended in greater numbers than usual) to prayers around the child that disappeared from the bedroom where she slept with her two siblings.
Sorry my confusion was here in that I thought that this was the RC priest saying they had taken communion with others ..in CofE all those who go to priest or Eucharistic minister when invited are either noted as communicant or non communicant if it's for a blessing ..sorry again...

Honeyblade

Posts : 35
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2015-06-27
Location : London

View user profile http://Hon3ybladesblog Wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by aquila on 29.07.15 10:30

@Honeyblade wrote:n Sunday, at around 9.30 a.m., the McCann family walked to the parochial church in order to, together with the other worshippers, participate in the Eucharistic celebration which also included the intention of little Maddie. During the Mass, the head of the celebration also tried to motivate the entire Christian community (including the foreigners that attended in greater numbers than usual) to prayers around the child that disappeared from the bedroom where she slept with her two siblings.
 Sorry my confusion was here in that I thought that this was the RC priest saying they had taken communion with others ..in CofE all those who go to priest or Eucharistic minister when invited are either noted as communicant or non communicant if it's for a blessing ..sorry again...
I think you're getting too 'technical' here, it's so easy to do, especially when comparing the Catholic and Anglican traditions within the UK. Just to put some perspective on this, I was christened a Methodist (I haven't seen the inside of a Methodist church since 1969). I attended the Catholic church in the 1990's every week for one year. I attended the C of E church too - I've attended a Baptist church also (hellfire and brimstone).

Birmingham has two cathedrals - St. Philips is the C of E and St. Martins is the Catholic cathedral. These cathedrals now and then did a bit of a swap with their heads of church to provide Sunday Service to their respective congregations. I can recall the Catholic priest coming to St. Philips (who incidentally told the best joke about the Pope during the service I've ever heard) arrived at the C of E service. This was a Eucharist service and everyone who was confirmed took Holy Communion. I can only assume that his C of E counterpart did the same in the Catholic service that day (he probably wasn't as witty). The church in PDL was likely the same too - there isn't a great deal of difference between the services of Anglican 'high church' and Roman Catholic church.

The point I'm trying to make (so very badly) is that the church in PDL was swooped on by the Press and the unctuous Haynes-Hubbard (he makes me shudder), who was a little too slick and comfortable with speaking to the media than is normal for your average religious servant went on to become great friends with the McCanns and allegedly they visited relatives of HH's wife in Canada. That, I find very difficult to understand but hey, it's all a world of networking and my goodness the McCanns and their media machine have exploited that very well.

Swallowing a communion wafer and having your photo taken in PDL wouldn't have meant a jot imo.
avatar
aquila

Posts : 8820
Reputation : 1777
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Honeyblade on 29.07.15 11:44

Lol ... Beautifully put exactly the training my son is undertaking to make church more comfortable.. I'm stilted by high Anglican indoctrination so yes I guess I was being to technical .. Like you I dislike HH .. Thanks for putting perspective on it .. It must have been a terrible time for people in PdL on the periphery .. As well as those involved ... Lost my son once after he wasn't back from a friend when he should be .. We had search parties out all over our area ,police looking, bus drivers and it was dark,I was near breakdown then my phone rang and he'd been found as soon as I saw him I didn't know whether to laugh ,cry,hug him or shout probably all four ,he'd lost his bus fare and walked home across park alone.
What was lovely was how pleased the police were he was safe and sound

Honeyblade

Posts : 35
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2015-06-27
Location : London

View user profile http://Hon3ybladesblog Wordpress.com

Back to top Go down

Sister Act...?

Post by missbeetle on 03.08.15 8:53

There are a couple of mentions of religious sisters in this mystery story -

- at Kate's announcement of her pregnancy with Madeleine :


(snipped from Mrs Janet Kennedy's rogatory statement)


...and when they went to the Vatican, two nuns dressed in white caught their eye :


(snipped from the Telegraph, 30th May 2007)

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

The Green Man...

Post by missbeetle on 11.08.15 6:27


(10th May, 2007 - sorry, I can't remember my source)

Is that Fr Paul Seddon robed up in the green at the top left of this picture?

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

More priestly photographs and trivia...

Post by missbeetle on 03.05.16 1:58

Speaking of the imported Fr Paul Seddon being photographed in mufti -

check out this enthusiastic picture of him at a 2007 vigil back home in Formby, Liverpool :



No wonder the McCanns didn't bring him along on their Papal visit...!

Not when the Pope himself had this glamorous fair-haired Father in his entourage :



HThis elegant fellow is, I think, Archbishop Georg Ganswein -

as seen on the cover of the Italian edition of Vanity Fair :



Gerry's blog makes reference to some kind words said to him by an American Priest in Rome -

he mentions the name of Msgr Daniel Gallagher - a media man himself :

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/27/priest-translates-pope-tweets-latin/6954991/

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by kaz on 03.05.16 8:34

@missbeetle wrote:Another interesting old photograph has come to light via Facebook :



Date, place and priest unknown...

...but I believe that to be Kate Healy with her parents.
And note 'The Hidden Hand' Masonic pose.  No doubt just a coincidence.

kaz

Posts : 470
Reputation : 389
Join date : 2014-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Roxyroo on 03.05.16 15:07

@missbeetle wrote:Another interesting old photograph has come to light via Facebook :



Date, place and priest unknown...

...but I believe that to be Kate Healy with her parents.

The hand in the jacket is very mason-esque indeed!

Sorry! Already been mentioned!  yes
avatar
Roxyroo

Posts : 413
Reputation : 272
Join date : 2016-04-04
Location : Scotland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Lead by the Church of England...?

Post by missbeetle on 04.05.16 10:26



Rothley's Anglican vicar Rob Gladstone again leading the vigil for missing Madeleine yesterday -

- prayers and a poem outside by the village war memorial.

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by kaz on 04.05.16 16:45

Strange how they can look so devastated nine years after the disappearance  but  managed  to look on top of the world nine days after .Is it possible they know the charade is coming to a close?

kaz

Posts : 470
Reputation : 389
Join date : 2014-08-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Another polo-shirt enthusiast...?

Post by missbeetle on 06.05.16 7:05

Here's a rather casually-dressed Fr Paul Seddon pictured helping the cause

15th August 2007, in Formby, Liverpool with family friends the McQueens

and I think Aunty Val to the far left. Cr Barry Griffiths in the Springbok jersey.



Again I am surprised by his polo-shirted muftiness -

and bogan black jeans - he really doesn't look very priestly to me.
.

Slightly strange is that a google images search for 'Fr Paul Seddon' gives me

various portraits of English gangsters (including one with a parrot on his shoulder)

in the related images section. I can only think it's because they are all big and bald.

____________________
'Tis strange, but true; for truth is always strange...
(from Lord Byron's 'Don Juan', 1823)
avatar
missbeetle

Posts : 985
Reputation : 20
Join date : 2014-02-28
Location : New Zealand

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Phoebe on 11.03.17 1:36

Just a few observations from a practicing Roman Catholic as some of the theories on this thread are way off the mark. The McCanns, as R.C.s would not have felt any need to call a priest to administer Extreme Unction (The Last Rites)in the event of Madeleine dying. At the age of 3 she would be regarded as free of sin since she had been baptized and had not yet reached "the age of reason" when one can commit sin. Children do not make their first confession until around 7 for this reason. Should a child under the age of reason die R.C.s believe they are in the State Of Grace and their funeral service is the Mass Of The Angels. While the R.C. church teaches against I.V F. many R.C.s have I.V.F children and the church tends to not fuss about it. Women have not had to cover heads since Vatican 2 and while boob tubes and micro mini-skirts/shorts in church are discouraged, ordinary holiday wear is fine. However, receiving Communion, other than that consecrated by a Catholic priest, especially publicly in the media, is a no no. Irish President Mary McAleese was ticked off for this. It is odd to demand the presence of a priest in the middle of the night. Normal devout Catholics would perhaps send word the following morning, asking for prayers of intercession at morning Mass or perhaps ask the priest to read his daily "office" for the child's safe return and to visit them as soon as it was convenient. Being seen to serve two religions by courting the Anglican faith at the same would go down like a lead balloon! This, in my view, combined with asking for private access to the church is what got Fr. Pacheco into trouble with his superiors and caused the Vatican to withdraw support. High Anglican ministers are also referred to as priests and called Father. In fact their service is also called Mass but it is Anglican Mass not R.C. Mass although the religions are quite similar. Finally, much was made of "knowledge" in some posts. At confirmation R.C.s believe they receive the 7 Gifts of The Holy Ghost - wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety and fear of the Lord. I won't list the 12 "fruits of the Holy Spirit" also received. Hope this info is of use.

Phoebe

Posts : 882
Reputation : 1029
Join date : 2017-03-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Phoebe on 11.03.17 10:43

A few further facts re. Confession. A Roman Catholic priest can never, ever break the seal of the confessional regardless of what he has been told. Nor would absoution include any precondition of the penitent telling the authorities of his crime. The priest may well exhort the confessor to do so but absolution does not depend on it. A Catholic would not be permitted to "confess" to a clergyman of any other faith as only R.C. priests can administer the sacraments - baptism, confession, communion, marriage etc. For example, although the Catholic church does not permit divorce, a Catholic, married by anyone other than a Catholic priest and later divorced, is permitted to re marry as the church does not recognize the first marriage as valid. I doubt the McCanns confessed anything to Fr. Pacheco due to the language barrier. I think his distress sprang from the fact that he was severely reprimanded for allowing his church to become part of a media circus. This was compounded by the fact that the McCanns seemed to view their faith as inter-changeable, publicly seeking guidance and comfort from the Anglican priest and attending Anglican services. The Catholic church regards itself as "the one true church" and while it has recently been more accepting of Eccuminism it still jealously guards its position. I believe this, together with doubts about the "abduction" led to the church quietly withdrawing from the affair. Given the child abuse scandals it needed further bad publicity like a hole in the head!

Phoebe

Posts : 882
Reputation : 1029
Join date : 2017-03-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Hobs on 12.03.17 0:35

As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the mccanns maintained their new found faith once they legged it back to the UK?

Do they bother god on a weekly basis at their local church or was their 'faith' a matter of being media saavy and milking it for all the financial worth, screen time and column inches they could?

As an out and proud atheist  albeit being raised c of e by my mom (who over the years worked her way through many bits of religion and creating her own)  how does the priest know that the person in front of them is allowed (?) to accept the communion, especially if they are not at their regular church?

If i decided to pop along to say a catholic church and at the relevant time wander up and expect wafer and a glug how would the priest know i was not actually entitled to receive it?
What if anything would happen if he offered me it, i took it and then he found out subsequently i was an atheist?

Also, how would a priest know if someone had been excommunicated?
Would they know if said person was a visitor, say in a church abroad?

Are only locals/regulars allowed to be given communion?
If it is anyone who goes up, is it all based on trust (and fear of a severe finger wagging by god?)

____________________
The little unremembered acts of kindness and love are the best parts of a person's life.
avatar
Hobs
Researcher/Analyst

Posts : 889
Reputation : 578
Join date : 2012-10-20
Age : 54
Location : uk

View user profile http://tania-cadogan.blogspot.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Verdi on 12.03.17 0:54

@Hobs wrote:As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the mccanns maintained their new found faith once they legged it back to the UK?
Well, I think they've visited the Rothley War Memorial a few times for communal prayers and a prominent display of good quality wristbands and ribbons - if that counts for anything.

That aside, my guess is they've been ex-communicated from the nearest and farthest Bishopric.

____________________
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx
avatar
Verdi
Moderator/Researcher

Posts : 8700
Reputation : 3900
Join date : 2015-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Phoebe on 12.03.17 10:18

Yes it is all based on trust. Catholic teaching used o heavily promote weekly Confession,so one would receive Communion in the "state of grace" but the actual rule is that one must go once a year between each Easter Sunday. Many, many Catholics do not  do so,yet still receive Communion. It is a matter for ones own conscience. If a non catholic turns up to receive then the priest has no way of knowing. Incidentally, Communion is usually given out by several lay people called Eucharistic Ministers as well as the priest. They would have no idea who was "worthy" or not. It's up to each recipient's conscience. Catholics only receive Communion in both forms ie. wafer and wine on very special church occasions.

Phoebe

Posts : 882
Reputation : 1029
Join date : 2017-03-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Priests

Post by Tony Bennett on 12.03.17 13:30

@Hobs wrote:As a matter of interest, does anyone know if the mccanns maintained their new found faith once they legged it back to the UK?

Do they bother god on a weekly basis at their local church or was their 'faith' a matter of being media savvy and milking it for all the financial worth, screen time and column inches they could?

ANSWER: I've read and re-read Kate McCann's book, 'madeleine', and I did carefully note the references to the faith of them both.  It is very clear that Kat McCann's faith in God is paper-thin, and Gerry's faith in God is barely mentioned. Kate comes from a family of practising Catholics, how devoutly they practised I've no idea.

As an out and proud atheist  albeit being raised c of e by my mom (who over the years worked her way through many bits of religion and creating her own)  how does the priest know that the person in front of them is allowed (?) to accept the communion, especially if they are not at their regular church?

If i decided to pop along to say a catholic church and at the relevant time wander up and expect wafer and a glug how would the priest know i was not actually entitled to receive it?
What if anything would happen if he offered me it, i took it and then he found out subsequently i was an atheist?

Also, how would a priest know if someone had been excommunicated? Would they know if said person was a visitor, say in a church abroad?

Are only locals/regulars allowed to be given communion? If it is anyone who goes up, is it all based on trust (and fear of a severe finger wagging by god?)

ANSWER: We are straying a long way off-topic but you raise a topic worthy of an answer.

I was going to explain to Phoebe some of the many ways that the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church (which she referred to) are wholly in conflict with Bible teaching. 

To answer your question, first let me explain that Roman Catholicism still teaches that in the Mass, the priest has the power to transform the wafer and the wine into the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ. 

By contrast, all Protestant churches accept Christ's teaching is that communion (or the 'breaking of bread' as it is known in many independent Gospel churches, like the one I attend) is a simple act of REMEMBRANCE of Christ's death, and Christ's sharing of the bread and wine at the Last Supper.   

To answer this point:   "
Also, how would a priest know if someone had been excommunicated? Would they know if said person was a visitor, say in a church abroad? Are only locals/regulars allowed to be given communion? If it is anyone who goes up, is it all based on trust (and fear of a severe finger wagging by god?)

...the breaking of bread is a solemn ceremony which is for the committed believer in Jesus Christ only. At communion in many Bible churches, these verses from Paul's first letter to the Corinthians are read out by the pastor or elder who officiates:

"For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till He come*. Wherefore whoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body" (1 Corinthians Chap 11 vv 26-9). 

* A reference to the return of Jesus Christ from heaven to earth at the end of time 


.

____________________

The amazing symbiosis between bees and flowers:

https://answersingenesis.org/evidence-for-creation/god-created-plant-pollinator-partners/  

avatar
Tony Bennett
Researcher

Posts : 14939
Reputation : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 70
Location : Shropshire

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 10 of 12 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum