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The Kipper and the Corpse

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by rainbow-fairy on 17.05.12 9:15

@david_uk wrote:I dont understand the logic in thinking the odd actions are a masonic signal!! Signal to who? this wasnt big brother live..
Big brother live??? Are you feeling quite ok?
I'll explain slowly.
1)Praying arab position is a known Masonic "Help, we are in Trouble" signal
2)This was performed in front of policemen
3)Masons don't ask "Are you a Mason?"
4)They do it via symbolic gestures
5)Gerry was hoping there would be a Masonic policeman who understood the signal for help

Did you not read the statement posted up by jd? The policeman searched the whole apartment!

I don't see the 'distraction' logic myself. Why use a suspicious movement to distract? Its likely to do the opposite (which it did). Had it been Kate collapsing in grief, or punching walls then maybe.

This was a distress signal, I'd put money on it.

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"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 10:11

Tbh I have no clue about any masonic signals. I don't know what and how their rituals look like and what it entails. I for one not knowing about it, will definitely see it as a distraction, but I am sure it could be read differently by people moving in those circles.

@rainbow-fairy

I am not sure what you mean by "risky" ways of distruction. To me there is hardly any difference in terms of risk between "a histerical mother" collapsing and "praying arab".
Was it actually said "praying arab". Kneeling with heads down on the bed, could have been crying as well. Did they actually pray? I know about the GNR officer said there was no tears, but he also said "noises like crying without tears". Which to me says, they suddenly had the urge (for whatever reason) to express their fear/anger/sadness about their daughter by kneeling down and cry.

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The buttoned trousers

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 10:16

@sweetex wrote:I agree with some sort of distraction, but can not really think what - especially at reception. That is really strange. I mean really if someone still had to remove the body they would definitely not done it via reception.

I wonder if Maddie was in that blue bag in the cupboard in the bedroom. Then again the Smith sighting can't be credible. Unless blood stained towels, clothes or sheets was somewhere in the bedroom and they had to distract the GNR officer.

In reception it could have been maybe to win some time. While Kate or whoever was doing something in the apartment? Keep the GNR officer at reception to prevent him from going to the apartment.

I find all of this strange though. I can imagine losing a child that someone can roar like a bull, but heads down kneeling in that position is a bit strange.

eta: It could be a signal for someone else to do something? "As soon as we fall down and start roaring ... you have to make sure the towel is hidden". LOL not a good example, but maybe some kind of signal.

The Smits noticed the 'abductor' wearing beige pants with buttons.
Gerry has/had beige pants with trousers (picture exists, somewhere on the forum)
Beige pants were photographed by the GNR on the bed in the parents bedroom
Then the Punch and Judy wailng Arabs act;
Then: no more pants (next photo, no pants, somewhere on this forum)

Could it be that the pants disappeared during the Punch and Judyshow?

BRW: Am I the only one noticing the semblance of Seabass & and Kippers?
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 10:21



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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 10:25

Sorry this is going to be a long one. All night I have been thinking about this throwing one's self to the floor episode and this morning - housework on hold - I decided to do a little research.

The first thing I came across was a novel published in 2006 and recommended on Oprahs bookreading club called Fall On Your Knees by Ann-Marie MacDonald, about unescapable family bonds, terrible secrets and of miracles.
I came across this and have taken a few quotes.
'The book is difficult and disturbing''
'The author leads you with tantalising hints'
'the is a lot of discussion of Religion mostly Catholic ---- it does help to have some understanding of the Catholic Religion and Catholic schools to really be able to follow this story'

So I then decided to take a look at the Catholic thoughts on Falling to your Knees.

'The people fell on their knees and prayed in gratitude for their salvation from the flood. They fell to their knees in awe'

'The people went down on their knees and prayed. Larry went down on his knees and asked for forgiveness'

'In the Old Testament there is an appearance of God to Joshua before the taking of Jerico, Joshua sees "the Commander of the army of the Lord" and having recognised who He is throws himself on the ground'

'Jesus throws Himself to the ground - He lays his will in the will of the Father - "Not my will but Yours be done"

In the Churches Liturgy today prostration (throwing ones self to the ground) appears on two occasions on Good Friday and at ordinations - we throw ourselves down and so acknowledge where we are and who we are, fallen creatures whom only He can set on their feet'

Kneeling before another.
'Let us single out Mark 1:40 - A leper comes to Jesus and begs Him for help. He falls to his knees before him and says "If you will, can you make me clean" - what we have here is surely not a proper act of adoration but rather a supplication expressed in bodily form, while showing trust in power!'

Portugal is a Roman Catholic Country.

Heavy reading for the morning but there is certainly a lot of throwing one's self to ones knees referred to here in the Catholic Religion. Maybe GM thought that all Portugese people would recognise this act as a religious act and take 'kindly' to them, there was certainly a lot of 'visits' to a local Catholic Church after the event.

I have looked heavily into the Masonic act of throwing ones self to the floor and cannot find anything referring to it but will continue to look.


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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 11:06

Statements from the officers:

José María Batista Roque : After the search, he noticed a situation that seemed unusual to him, when at a determined moment, the girl's parents kneeled down on the floor of their bedroom and placed their heads on the bed, crying. He did not notice any comments or expression from them, just crying. He says that at the main reception the father also knelt down, placing his head on the floor and crying. He did not hear the father say anything.

In another par: He found the parents to be nervous and anxious, he did not see any tears from either of them although they produced noises identical to crying.

Then again: He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand.

I could be wrong here, but it doesnt say they were praying? To me it looks Gerry and Kate either suddenly remembered they are suppose to cry and "roar like a bull" and be sad, or the distraction option.

If it was some kind of masonic signal he must have been very disappointed when nobody took notice or understood what he was trying to say.
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 11:08

Yes definatley praying - see my previous post on page 8!

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 11:11

@Hummingbird wrote:Yes definatley praying - see my previous post on page 8!

@Hummingbird.

I have read your post Thanks! Maybe I am missing something, because my point is... it did not appear to the officer that they were praying, but rather they were crying. Where was it mentioned that they were praying if they made noises to the effect of crying?
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 11:27

Yes that is where my thoughts are going. I have read that GM was not actually a devout Catholic and perhaps even not KM before the events of 3 May. So 'what if' with all the planning that went on before, they decided that they had to 'scratch' up on their religious skills and knowledge because if they were perceived by the public after the 'abduction' to be devoutly religious then so many more people would perhaps believe their story, and of course they had also chosen a Country that is predomianty Roman Catholic and therefore would have assumed that 'everyone' there should understand the 'throwing themselves to the floor' in a prayer like manner - of course one thing they overlooked is the fact that not everyone in Portugal is a Roman Catholic and of course this throwing one's self down in a prayer like manner is 'old fashioned' It is just a thought born by looking on the internet for references to 'throwing one's self to their knees' and similar and the Catholic Religion features heavily in this practice - as well as the title of the book. Plus the fact that there are very few articles written about them that doesn't mention their religion. How many other parents of missing or murdered children have we been given a detailed account of their religious beliefs?

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 11:30

Sorry should have finished with WHY would you not just stand in front of the officer and break down hysterically if crying is what you want him to believe you are doing? There would be no need to 'throw yourself to the floor' to cry. Unless of course you are trying to make a loud noise to cover up another noise - and then we are off down another avenue!!

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 11:36

candyfloss wrote:


Excellent work, CF!

Funny place to leave your out-doors shoes too, when you're having a night out (showered, bathed, presumably with a change of clothes)
Isn't that one of KMs canoes at the foot of the bed GM's pants are on? Why, if KM slept in Maddies room the night before, are the two beds now shoved together? Ezpecially when the nearest one hasn't been slept in (unruffled, with straight pllowcase)
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 11:43

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077717/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2016

According to the GNR officers (in their third statement), Gerry knelt on the floor at the reception, crying. Matthew Oldfield describes him (Gerry) as hysterically upset.
It was the housekeeper who's described it as 'looking like an Arab at prayer".


I don't know how reliable this source is, but to me it sounds more as if they were crying than praying. Maybe it was the position (on the floor- hands in the air etc.) made her think they were doing an "Arab prayer".

I think if it was crying, it was just some fake act of them to persuade the officers of how "truly" upset they are
If it was prayer, well I agree with Hummingbird it was probably to try to impress the officers that they are devout catholics.

The GNR officer talks about an "expression" which he didn't understand. And could very well have been some kind of signal @ masonic gesture.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by david_uk on 17.05.12 12:01

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@david_uk wrote:I dont understand the logic in thinking the odd actions are a masonic signal!! Signal to who? this wasnt big brother live..
Big brother live??? Are you feeling quite ok?
I'll explain slowly.
1)Praying arab position is a known Masonic "Help, we are in Trouble" signal
2)This was performed in front of policemen
3)Masons don't ask "Are you a Mason?"
4)They do it via symbolic gestures
5)Gerry was hoping there would be a Masonic policeman who understood the signal for help

Did you not read the statement posted up by jd? The policeman searched the whole apartment!

I don't see the 'distraction' logic myself. Why use a suspicious movement to distract? Its likely to do the opposite (which it did). Had it been Kate collapsing in grief, or punching walls then maybe.

This was a distress signal, I'd put money on it.

Masonic cry for help? are you feeling Ok?

It would depend if the action stopped the officer entering the bedroom at that moment in time after he witnessed the strange praying, which we dont know for sure that they did.

Clearly we dont agree, which is fine :) . but as you like a list;

1. Distraction (to embaress officer so wouldnt enter room, hide stains or item in room etc) cant confirm what or why
2. Acting (fake show of distress) Very possible, but they are so good normally, could they have acted it out better?
3. Real ( real show of distress) We all agree its not likely?
4. Secret Masonic distress signal , on two occasions on the small chance the Portuguese GNR officer was a Mason. Surely he could of just greeted the officers on both occasions with a traditional masonic handshake first? thus not making such a going unnoticed to a non-mason just incase they found it odd. Which in this case they did find strange enough to note. Non-masons clearly
I know which one I would put my money on....... Wink

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 12:15

@david_uk wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@david_uk wrote:I dont understand the logic in thinking the odd actions are a masonic signal!! Signal to who? this wasnt big brother live..
Big brother live??? Are you feeling quite ok?
I'll explain slowly.
1)Praying arab position is a known Masonic "Help, we are in Trouble" signal
2)This was performed in front of policemen
3)Masons don't ask "Are you a Mason?"
4)They do it via symbolic gestures
5)Gerry was hoping there would be a Masonic policeman who understood the signal for help

Did you not read the statement posted up by jd? The policeman searched the whole apartment!

I don't see the 'distraction' logic myself. Why use a suspicious movement to distract? Its likely to do the opposite (which it did). Had it been Kate collapsing in grief, or punching walls then maybe.

This was a distress signal, I'd put money on it.

Masonic cry for help? are you feeling Ok?

It would depend if the action stopped the officer entering the bedroom at that moment in time after he witnessed the strange praying, which we dont know for sure that they did.

Clearly we dont agree, which is fine :) . but as you like a list;

1. Distraction (to embaress officer so wouldnt enter room, hide stains or item in room etc) cant confirm what or why
2. Acting (fake show of distress) Very possible, but they are so good normally, could they have acted it out better?
3. Real ( real show of distress) We all agree its not likely?
4. Secret Masonic distress signal , on two occasions on the small chance the Portuguese GNR officer was a Mason.

I know which one I would put my money on....... Wink



1. I don't think any trained officer would be embarrassed to enter a room just because someone had thrown themselves to the floor, more likely to enter and see what was going on in fact take more notice due to the odd act in front of him.
2. If they wanted to show distress then fainting, hysterically crying, shouting out your missing daughters name, gasping for breath among a million other acts spring to mind before throwing yourself to the floor
3. No real sign of distress - we're 5 years in and I think we can all agree that is something we have never witnessed
4. I cannot (my opinion - not suggesting you are wrong) believe that any Mason would do this act in front of anyone if his child had just been abducted

I have to go with the Catholic Religion theory and that they thought as they were in a Catholic Country then throwing themselves to their knees would be seen as a religious act.

Can you please enlighten us as to the Masonic theory and perhaps where this knowledge comes from I cannot find any reference to the Masons throwing themselves to their knees and although I am aware this is a secret society there is not a lot you can't find on the internet these days - the only references I can find to throwing one's self to their knees is Catholic and religious. (perhaps I need to contact a few friends who I know to be Masons and see if they will 'spill the beans' LOL)

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by jd on 17.05.12 13:04

To me I see no sense or logic that this was in any way a distraction. They wouldn't have called the police if there still things to hide and distract them from. But more importantly this was done in 2 separate locations so the likelihood of needing to distract the police in 2 locations is highly unlikely. Plus kate mccann was not in the first location, but in the bedroom she knew exactly what to do, so this is something they both knew what they were doing beforehand

I think it is most likely a masonic call for help, and the expression gerry mccann gave to the officer gives this away....asking the question if the officer 'understood' this cry for help. It makes sense if at the start to know if they had someone who knew this cry for help and would help them in this regard. We have all seen the unprecedented powerful help the mccanns have had since day 1 so makes sense that they mix in these circles to start with, and if these police officers lived in the same world as them so to speak

However, the religious aspect is interesting that has value and I can see real logic in this too. One of the strange things on the night & one of the first things they did was asking for a priest (whom 2 days later gave them the keys to the church). It seems they kept asking for a priest & even phoned one back in the UK (Seddon). To me the religious aspect was on their minds already and would fit in with falling on their knees trying to pray call of help. They didn't really understand what they were doing from a religious point of view imo but trying to come across as devout Catholics and the seeds of this were forming as this is the road since that they have taken. Neither of them were in reality religious at the time, gerry mccann was not at all from what I can gather and kate mccann only mildly..But since this day it all changed and they have been selling themselves as devout catholics even though they went to an Anglican priest at the time, but this is another story
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 13:10

I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by david_uk on 17.05.12 13:12

@Hummingbird wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@david_uk wrote:I dont understand the logic in thinking the odd actions are a masonic signal!! Signal to who? this wasnt big brother live..
Big brother live??? Are you feeling quite ok?
I'll explain slowly.
1)Praying arab position is a known Masonic "Help, we are in Trouble" signal
2)This was performed in front of policemen
3)Masons don't ask "Are you a Mason?"
4)They do it via symbolic gestures
5)Gerry was hoping there would be a Masonic policeman who understood the signal for help

Did you not read the statement posted up by jd? The policeman searched the whole apartment!

I don't see the 'distraction' logic myself. Why use a suspicious movement to distract? Its likely to do the opposite (which it did). Had it been Kate collapsing in grief, or punching walls then maybe.

This was a distress signal, I'd put money on it.

Masonic cry for help? are you feeling Ok?

It would depend if the action stopped the officer entering the bedroom at that moment in time after he witnessed the strange praying, which we dont know for sure that they did.

Clearly we dont agree, which is fine :) . but as you like a list;

1. Distraction (to embaress officer so wouldnt enter room, hide stains or item in room etc) cant confirm what or why
2. Acting (fake show of distress) Very possible, but they are so good normally, could they have acted it out better?
3. Real ( real show of distress) We all agree its not likely?
4. Secret Masonic distress signal , on two occasions on the small chance the Portuguese GNR officer was a Mason.

I know which one I would put my money on....... Wink



1. I don't think any trained officer would be embarrassed to enter a room just because someone had thrown themselves to the floor, more likely to enter and see what was going on in fact take more notice due to the odd act in front of him.
2. If they wanted to show distress then fainting, hysterically crying, shouting out your missing daughters name, gasping for breath among a million other acts spring to mind before throwing yourself to the floor
3. No real sign of distress - we're 5 years in and I think we can all agree that is something we have never witnessed
4. I cannot (my opinion - not suggesting you are wrong) believe that any Mason would do this act in front of anyone if his child had just been abducted

I have to go with the Catholic Religion theory and that they thought as they were in a Catholic Country then throwing themselves to their knees would be seen as a religious act.

Can you please enlighten us as to the Masonic theory and perhaps where this knowledge comes from I cannot find any reference to the Masons throwing themselves to their knees and although I am aware this is a secret society there is not a lot you can't find on the internet these days - the only references I can find to throwing one's self to their knees is Catholic and religious. (perhaps I need to contact a few friends who I know to be Masons and see if they will 'spill the beans' LOL)

Hi hummingbird

Not sure if you’ve read it askew or i wasnt clear, I was replying to Rainbowfairy, I was just listing options, not supporting any of them other than distraction.

I don’t agree with your response on point one, I think someone in that situation , given that they are not necessarily suspicious of the parents at that time, on seeing what they have already described as an odd display by the parents they may well just moved along and come back later. If it was on a later inspection (after dogs for example) then I agree that nothing would stop them entering and checking the room.

Agreed on the other points, and agreed on the Masonic part, again that is not my theory, just suggested by others on this thread, and I don’t go for it either personally and couldn’t make a great argument why as I don’t know enough about masons. J. If it was a fake religious gesture, I would still question the reasons on both occasions…

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 13:15

@jd wrote:To me I see no sense or logic that this was in any way a distraction. They wouldn't have called the police if there still things to hide and distract them from. But more importantly this was done in 2 separate locations so the likelihood of needing to distract the police in 2 locations is highly unlikely. Plus kate mccann was not in the first location, but in the bedroom she knew exactly what to do, so this is something they both knew what they were doing beforehand

I think it is most likely a masonic call for help, and the expression gerry mccann gave to the officer gives this away....asking the question if the officer 'understood' this cry for help. It makes sense if at the start to know if they had someone who knew this cry for help and would help them in this regard. We have all seen the unprecedented powerful help the mccanns have had since day 1 so makes sense that they mix in these circles to start with, and if these police officers lived in the same world as them so to speak

However, the religious aspect is interesting that has value and I can see real logic in this too. One of the strange things on the night & one of the first things they did was asking for a priest (whom 2 days later gave them the keys to the church). It seems they kept asking for a priest & even phoned one back in the UK (Seddon). To me the religious aspect was on their minds already and would fit in with falling on their knees trying to pray call of help. They didn't really understand what they were doing from a religious point of view imo but trying to come across as devout Catholics and the seeds of this were forming as this is the road since that they have taken. Neither of them were in reality religious at the time, gerry mccann was not at all from what I can gather and kate mccann only mildly..But since this day it all changed and they have been selling themselves as devout catholics even though they went to an Anglican priest at the time, but this is another story

Yes and this is where my mind keeps going today, they were not devoutly religious before the 'event' but there have been constant referrals to their devote catholic beliefs, their numerous visits to the Catholic church, their visit to the Pope, the keys to the church ................ and so AFTER the 'event' . WHY if they weren't Catholic BEFORE Madeleine 'disappeared' are they such strong Catholics NOW? This is why I can only think that the falling to the knees was some sort of religious thing add in the crying and wow you have such a powerful sight IF you are a Catholic officer witnessing this event.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by david_uk on 17.05.12 13:16

candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.



Found it! a picture no less!. I think themason theory might have legs after all!




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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by jd on 17.05.12 13:22

@Hummingbird wrote: Yes and this is where my mind keeps going today, they were not devoutly religious before the 'event' but there have been constant referrals to their devote catholic beliefs, their numerous visits to the Catholic church, their visit to the Pope, the keys to the church ................ and so AFTER the 'event' . WHY if they weren't Catholic BEFORE Madeleine 'disappeared' are they such strong Catholics NOW? This is why I can only think that the falling to the knees was some sort of religious thing add in the crying and wow you have such a powerful sight IF you are a Catholic officer witnessing this event.

I can see your thinking with this and it does to me have a lot of value and does make sense of other things too, one in particular that I am currently researching. If I take a step back from everything, what hits me most after May 3rd is the Church at PDL and the catholic religion. Sub consciously I always hold the image of the church at PDL, don't know why but I just do
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by jd on 17.05.12 13:25

candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.

Tony has put up a lot of info on here in the past, though carter ruck might have had him whoosh them since
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 13:27

@david_uk wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:
@david_uk wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@david_uk wrote:I dont understand the logic in thinking the odd actions are a masonic signal!! Signal to who? this wasnt big brother live..
Big brother live??? Are you feeling quite ok?
I'll explain slowly.
1)Praying arab position is a known Masonic "Help, we are in Trouble" signal
2)This was performed in front of policemen
3)Masons don't ask "Are you a Mason?"
4)They do it via symbolic gestures
5)Gerry was hoping there would be a Masonic policeman who understood the signal for help

Did you not read the statement posted up by jd? The policeman searched the whole apartment!

I don't see the 'distraction' logic myself. Why use a suspicious movement to distract? Its likely to do the opposite (which it did). Had it been Kate collapsing in grief, or punching walls then maybe.

This was a distress signal, I'd put money on it.

Masonic cry for help? are you feeling Ok?

It would depend if the action stopped the officer entering the bedroom at that moment in time after he witnessed the strange praying, which we dont know for sure that they did.

Clearly we dont agree, which is fine :) . but as you like a list;

1. Distraction (to embaress officer so wouldnt enter room, hide stains or item in room etc) cant confirm what or why
2. Acting (fake show of distress) Very possible, but they are so good normally, could they have acted it out better?
3. Real ( real show of distress) We all agree its not likely?
4. Secret Masonic distress signal , on two occasions on the small chance the Portuguese GNR officer was a Mason.

I know which one I would put my money on....... Wink



1. I don't think any trained officer would be embarrassed to enter a room just because someone had thrown themselves to the floor, more likely to enter and see what was going on in fact take more notice due to the odd act in front of him.
2. If they wanted to show distress then fainting, hysterically crying, shouting out your missing daughters name, gasping for breath among a million other acts spring to mind before throwing yourself to the floor
3. No real sign of distress - we're 5 years in and I think we can all agree that is something we have never witnessed
4. I cannot (my opinion - not suggesting you are wrong) believe that any Mason would do this act in front of anyone if his child had just been abducted

I have to go with the Catholic Religion theory and that they thought as they were in a Catholic Country then throwing themselves to their knees would be seen as a religious act.

Can you please enlighten us as to the Masonic theory and perhaps where this knowledge comes from I cannot find any reference to the Masons throwing themselves to their knees and although I am aware this is a secret society there is not a lot you can't find on the internet these days - the only references I can find to throwing one's self to their knees is Catholic and religious. (perhaps I need to contact a few friends who I know to be Masons and see if they will 'spill the beans' LOL)

Hi hummingbird

Not sure if you’ve read it askew or i wasnt clear, I was replying to Rainbowfairy, I was just listing options, not supporting any of them other than distraction.

I don’t agree with your response on point one, I think someone in that situation , given that they are not necessarily suspicious of the parents at that time, on seeing what they have already described as an odd display by the parents they may well just moved along and come back later. If it was on a later inspection (after dogs for example) then I agree that nothing would stop them entering and checking the room.

Agreed on the other points, and agreed on the Masonic part, again that is not my theory, just suggested by others on this thread, and I don’t go for it either personally and couldn’t make a great argument why as I don’t know enough about masons. J. If it was a fake religious gesture, I would still question the reasons on both occasions…

Hi there and thanks for that. I suppose we are all different in our 'make up' My Mum would never ever listen to me when I said that the McCanns were liars and up to something, she absolutely believed them and even gave to their fund (bless her) she was that type of person in life never doubted anyone and everyone was innocent till proven guilty. Now on the other hand I find most things suspicious until I can see the truth I am naturally suspicious of 'new' people and everyone is generally guilty until proven innocent in my book!! As I say we are all different and that is why I cannot (personally) subscribe to the fact that throwing yourself to the floor would stop anyone entering a room, I would likely just walk round that person eyebrows raised and think 'yep nutter, what have we here then?' Also one's natural instinct to put someone off a 'scent' would be to approach the officer and start talking quickly asking questions and pointing to something outside of the room perhaps even saying 'Oh my God is that her Oh Jesus I thought I just saw her there look over there!' Surely that is distraction and a way to get someone to leave the room they were about to enter Anyway as I say these are just my thoughts and I am in no way what so ever dismissing any one elses I absolutely believe one day someone will have a theory and it will lead to the answer that is why we are here and doing what we are doing! Perhaps I should go walk the dog and have a mull over todays religious aspect!!! LOL pray2

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by jd on 17.05.12 13:31

The very strange act of getting to ones knees in the middle of a public reception area making crying noises and gestures of praying is not distracting...Its totally drawing attention to ones self!!!

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 13:33

@jd wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote: Yes and this is where my mind keeps going today, they were not devoutly religious before the 'event' but there have been constant referrals to their devote catholic beliefs, their numerous visits to the Catholic church, their visit to the Pope, the keys to the church ................ and so AFTER the 'event' . WHY if they weren't Catholic BEFORE Madeleine 'disappeared' are they such strong Catholics NOW? This is why I can only think that the falling to the knees was some sort of religious thing add in the crying and wow you have such a powerful sight IF you are a Catholic officer witnessing this event.

I can see your thinking with this and it does to me have a lot of value and does make sense of other things too, one in particular that I am currently researching. If I take a step back from everything, what hits me most after May 3rd is the Church at PDL and the catholic religion. Sub consciously I always hold the image of the church at PDL, don't know why but I just do

Yes I agree and it is funny how a comment made because one was watching Fawlty Towers can lead to such a debate!! One that has always been there in the back of my mind but until this thread has never really given been given much thought too, until that is I started to look into 'throwing one's self to the floor' and all the references were religious apart from the book I came across but then again that is apparently packed with Catholic beliefs too!!!

I think a lot more research into the Catholic Religion, whether they actually worshipped regularly before Portugal and a lot lot more time needs to be spent looking at the Church and it's relevance here. It certainly played a massive part in the events that followed including in the media!

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 13:35

@jd wrote:The very strange act of getting to ones knees in the middle of a public reception area making crying noises and gestures of praying is not distracting...Its totally drawing attention to ones self!!!


Totally agree, which Gerry loves to do BUT why then did the BOTH do it again later? This was not a one off act.

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