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The Kipper and the Corpse

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Mariita on 17.05.12 13:54

@Hummingbird wrote:
@jd wrote:The very strange act of getting to ones knees in the middle of a public reception area making crying noises and gestures of praying is not distracting...Its totally drawing attention to ones self!!!


Totally agree, which Gerry loves to do BUT why then did the BOTH do it again later? This was not a one off act.

If you can´t cry naturally,which most people do when experiencing genuine grief and sense of loss, you do something else because if you do NOTHING, it arouses suspicions. As it did later. So their behaviour is both a distraction (no tears, no sadness at all) and an attraction (look, they are so devastated, they throw themselves down in this way-what a supergrief!! Can´t even see their faces...)
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 14:02

I may be a bit behind with all the info. Do we have confirmation that Gerry was in fact a mason?

Reason for me asking - I don't want to go off topic here, but I've read some scary stuff (as I'm sure all of you have when doing research on this case) about M was abducted for some top mason guy - if I'm not mistaken it was a previous Prime Minister of Portugal.

Now just to make myself clear - I do not support that theory AT ALL. I'm just asking if we have confirmation that GM was a mason?

@jd

I agree with the fact that because they did this crying/prayer thing twice, it could not have been distraction. Once - maybe, twice.... no I don't think so.

I agree with the religion theory, which will essentially mean that they "acted" because they presented themselves as devout Catholics which they are not. Crying without tears, well that is definitely an act.

Its interesting that you say Kate joined in immediately and knew what to do. I almost makes you think that they have done this before? Or practised it?

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by david_uk on 17.05.12 14:03

@Mariita wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:
@jd wrote:The very strange act of getting to ones knees in the middle of a public reception area making crying noises and gestures of praying is not distracting...Its totally drawing attention to ones self!!!


Totally agree, which Gerry loves to do BUT why then did the BOTH do it again later? This was not a one off act.

If you can´t cry naturally,which most people do when experiencing genuine grief and sense of loss, you do something else because if you do NOTHING, it arouses suspicions. As it did later. So their behaviour is both a distraction (no tears, no sadness at all) and an attraction (look, they are so devastated, they throw themselves down in this way-what a supergrief!! Can´t even see their faces...)



ok where all split 50-50 here. Hows about a quick survey. One word answer

If you had been the GNR officer, taking in what he claimed to have seen. Would you have entered the room?.

Me?... No, I would not have entered the room

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 14:32

David - Yes, I would!

But now this is interesting I have just watched some of the documentary The Truth of the Lie and I am assuming that he made sure it was factual, and considering what we are discussing here Masonic or religious, when GM & KM are both on the bed in this position Gerry is heard to shout Oh My God!
Therefore, I am still on the side of this being a religious thing.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by sweetex on 17.05.12 14:33

I'll probably will go in, but being the kind of person I am and the situation I will probably try and comfort them. Unless its clear its an act, but for that moment I'll keep my suspicion to myself.


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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 14:38

@Hummingbird wrote:David - Yes, I would!

But now this is interesting I have just watched some of the documentary The Truth of the Lie and I am assuming that he made sure it was factual, and considering what we are discussing here Masonic or religious, when GM & KM are both on the bed in this position Gerry is heard to shout Oh My God!
Therefore, I am still on the side of this being a religious thing.

The officers just stood in the doorway didn't they looking rather puzzled, that's if I remember correctly. And yes, as I said the other day, they are actually on the bed not beside it in Mr Amaral's documentary. Why would you get onto the bed?
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by tigger on 17.05.12 14:39

@jd wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote: Yes and this is where my mind keeps going today, they were not devoutly religious before the 'event' but there have been constant referrals to their devote catholic beliefs, their numerous visits to the Catholic church, their visit to the Pope, the keys to the church ................ and so AFTER the 'event' . WHY if they weren't Catholic BEFORE Madeleine 'disappeared' are they such strong Catholics NOW? This is why I can only think that the falling to the knees was some sort of religious thing add in the crying and wow you have such a powerful sight IF you are a Catholic officer witnessing this event.

I can see your thinking with this and it does to me have a lot of value and does make sense of other things too, one in particular that I am currently researching. If I take a step back from everything, what hits me most after May 3rd is the Church at PDL and the catholic religion. Sub consciously I always hold the image of the church at PDL, don't know why but I just do

I've posted about this some time ago. I'll try to find it. In short:
They could whatever happened, square it with their consciences as long as they observed the obligations to the dead of the RC.
These are: prayers after three days, a church service after 12 days, a memorial service for family and friends , three months visit the grave to say goodbye.
We have:
3/5/ prayers.
12/5 Church service especially for her - they came out smiling broadly!
9/6 40 days - a meeting in Sagres with family who flew in especially for this. (see the June 07 topic)
3 months - a strange trip to Huelva with a detour.
As the family have to be complicit to some extend, it seems that this religious aspect assuages their guilt very well. (e.g. we couldn't bury her openly but all duties have been observed). I like the 3/5 particularly, because imo it puts the demise on the 30th/1st which fits very well with the phone activity for one.


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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 14:47

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote: Yes and this is where my mind keeps going today, they were not devoutly religious before the 'event' but there have been constant referrals to their devote catholic beliefs, their numerous visits to the Catholic church, their visit to the Pope, the keys to the church ................ and so AFTER the 'event' . WHY if they weren't Catholic BEFORE Madeleine 'disappeared' are they such strong Catholics NOW? This is why I can only think that the falling to the knees was some sort of religious thing add in the crying and wow you have such a powerful sight IF you are a Catholic officer witnessing this event.

I can see your thinking with this and it does to me have a lot of value and does make sense of other things too, one in particular that I am currently researching. If I take a step back from everything, what hits me most after May 3rd is the Church at PDL and the catholic religion. Sub consciously I always hold the image of the church at PDL, don't know why but I just do

I've posted about this some time ago. I'll try to find it. In short:
They could whatever happened, square it with their consciences as long as they observed the obligations to the dead of the RC.
These are: prayers after three days, a church service after 12 days, a memorial service for family and friends , three months visit the grave to say goodbye.
We have:
3/5/ prayers.
12/5 Church service especially for her - they came out smiling broadly!
9/6 40 days - a meeting in Sagres with family who flew in especially for this. (see the June 07 topic)
3 months - a strange trip to Huelva with a detour.
As the family have to be complicit to some extend, it seems that this religious aspect assuages their guilt very well. (e.g. we couldn't bury her openly but all duties have been observed). I like the 3/5 particularly, because imo it puts the demise on the 30th/1st which fits very well with the phone activity for one.


Thanks for that Tigger, that is most enlightening I had heard all this many moons ago but never really took that much notice, now though it seems to fit nicely into place. I often wonder about the church in PDL, they became religious celebrities almost overnight! The Pope visit etc etc it is all just too coincidental for me. I am def. going to take a closer look at the Catholic links here.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Hummingbird on 17.05.12 14:50

candyfloss wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:David - Yes, I would!

But now this is interesting I have just watched some of the documentary The Truth of the Lie and I am assuming that he made sure it was factual, and considering what we are discussing here Masonic or religious, when GM & KM are both on the bed in this position Gerry is heard to shout Oh My God!
Therefore, I am still on the side of this being a religious thing.

The officers just stood in the doorway didn't they looking rather puzzled, that's if I remember correctly. And yes, as I said the other day, they are actually on the bed not beside it in Mr Amaral's documentary. Why would you get onto the bed?

Yes they were both on the bed Gerry nearest the door and yes the two police officers were looking in in a very puzzled manner!
Exactly, why would you get on the bed? Both of you doing exactly the same thing in the same position it makes no sense whatsoever! There has to have been a reason for it otherwise why on earth do it?

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by tigger on 17.05.12 14:54

@Hummingbird wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@Hummingbird wrote:David - Yes, I would!

But now this is interesting I have just watched some of the documentary The Truth of the Lie and I am assuming that he made sure it was factual, and considering what we are discussing here Masonic or religious, when GM & KM are both on the bed in this position Gerry is heard to shout Oh My God!
Therefore, I am still on the side of this being a religious thing.

The officers just stood in the doorway didn't they looking rather puzzled, that's if I remember correctly. And yes, as I said the other day, they are actually on the bed not beside it in Mr Amaral's documentary. Why would you get onto the bed?

Yes they were both on the bed Gerry nearest the door and yes the two police officers were looking in in a very puzzled manner!
Exactly, why would you get on the bed? Both of you doing exactly the same thing in the same position it makes no sense whatsoever! There has to have been a reason for it otherwise why on earth do it?

Actually, I seem to remember they were on the floor with their heads on the bed. In the film they're both on the beds. I'll have to look it up but I'm pretty sure.
In the following days they had quite a hard time not to smirk. There's a clip of them walking on the beach and Kate hiding her face behind cuddlecat but it looks like she's laughing.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 15:02

One of the GNR statements states they were on the floor next to the bed with their heads on it but in Mr Amaral's documentary, they are on the bed. Now I can see no reason why he would change this, so he must have had more info, or another GNR told him this version. Still if it was religious you would kneel by the bed, you certainly wouldn't get on it. So what was on the bed??
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by jd on 17.05.12 16:28

candyfloss wrote:One of the GNR statements states they were on the floor next to the bed with their heads on it but in Mr Amaral's documentary, they are on the bed. Now I can see no reason why he would change this, so he must have had more info, or another GNR told him this version. Still if it was religious you would kneel by the bed, you certainly wouldn't get on it. So what was on the bed??

they probably used it like a prayer mat
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by friedtomatoes on 17.05.12 18:10

It strikes me as the mccanns were very early on decided Madeleine would not be found that night and started ringing all and sundry saying all kinds of things. How did they know she had not sleepwalked or gone out and got lost or fell asleep somewhere? They say she could not have opened the shutters. There is no one apart from Kate who says they were. More than a dozen passings by all and sundry and no one saw any open shutters before Kates check. Gerry in his first statement said Kate went in through the front door with her key, if the shutters were open she would have seen them before entering. And on the shutter note, if they had been opened from the outside they would not have stayed up. Matt says ln his check he didnt notice anything re open windows and shutters. Therefore they were opened from the inside at some stage AFTER 10pm imo and lets not forget if she ran out of the apartment on discovering Madeleine missing she would have shut the window and shutters before she left her other two kids and locked the patio door and exited through the front. She also did not scream out for help to people in neighbouring flats including Jane Tanner, but left the other children after knowing instantly it was an abduction and somehow KNOWING any abductors were not still loitering. What a tall tale.

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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 20:11

candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.

The link below has a description and an image.. scroll down to the GRAND HAILING SIGN OF DISTRESS

Would be good to see a full diagram of all the motions but it is described as starting with both hands raised toward heaven and ends with both arms in the downward position..

It also says if the sign can't be seen you should utter a substitute for the sign "O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son?"



http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by Guest on 17.05.12 20:23

Stewie wrote:
candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.

The link below has a description and an image.. scroll down to the GRAND HAILING SIGN OF DISTRESS

Would be good to see a full diagram of all the motions but it is described as starting with both hands raised toward heaven and ends with both arms in the downward position..

It also says if the sign can't be seen you should utter a substitute for the sign "O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son?"



http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm

thanks
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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by friedtomatoes on 17.05.12 20:45

I guess mark harrison lee rainbow and other uk officers are NOT masons seeing as they were very hurtful and unhelpful
i have yet to see one solid link to either gerry being a mason or any masons helping him


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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by tigger on 17.05.12 21:23

candyfloss wrote:
Stewie wrote:
candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.

The link below has a description and an image.. scroll down to the GRAND HAILING SIGN OF DISTRESS

Would be good to see a full diagram of all the motions but it is described as starting with both hands raised toward heaven and ends with both arms in the downward position..

It also says if the sign can't be seen you should utter a substitute for the sign "O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son?"



http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm



thanks

I've scrolled lots to find the post of PeterMac which must have been anywhere between mid September and end November.
It said something like: kneel on the ground making a 90 degree angle with your body, raise both hands in the air and bring down ont he ground, then something about roaring twice. Much like the one above but with addition. Maybe not that of a mastermason, seeing as he's kneeling, but a lower order.


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Re: The Kipper and the Corpse

Post by david_uk on 18.05.12 9:43

@tigger wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Stewie wrote:
candyfloss wrote:I keep reading about this masonic sign of help, can someone please put up just a quote and link for this. Thank you.

The link below has a description and an image.. scroll down to the GRAND HAILING SIGN OF DISTRESS

Would be good to see a full diagram of all the motions but it is described as starting with both hands raised toward heaven and ends with both arms in the downward position..

It also says if the sign can't be seen you should utter a substitute for the sign "O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son?"



http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm




I've scrolled lots to find the post of PeterMac which must have been anywhere between mid September and end November.
It said something like: kneel on the ground making a 90 degree angle with your body, raise both hands in the air and bring down ont he ground, then something about roaring twice. Much like the one above but with addition. Maybe not that of a mastermason, seeing as he's kneeling, but a lower order.





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