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Portuguese prosecutor releases files of sightings

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Post by bunnie1 on 03.03.10 16:28

@hedge wrote:
@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?
Plenty Hedge - I must say if Madeleine were my missing child I'd be worried about passing anything onto the PJ and this latest release just confirms it.
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Post by justagrannynow 1 on 03.03.10 16:29

@hedge wrote:
@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?

It was probably the press up to their tricks again, but he must have had some information which led him to this belief that Madeleine was being held in the area, lawless village or not, and as he couldn't investigate himself, did he pass on whatever information he had to the PJ? After all, the McCanns are upset today because all sorts of sightings around the world have not been followed up by the PJ, so even if Dave Edgar didn't know the exact village or the individual/s holding Madeleine, he surely passed whatever information he had onto the PJ, and also told Kate and Gerry.
If it was simply a theory he had dreamed up he should have kept it to himself and not sparked off more lurid press reports.
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Post by hedge on 03.03.10 16:32

I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.
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Post by justagrannynow 1 on 03.03.10 16:42

@hedge wrote:I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.

I saw newspaper reports that Madeleine was alive and being held in a lawless village within a 15km radius of PDL. The reports were attributed to Dave Edgar.
I am logging off now to get the evening meal ready, but if you want I'll do a Google when I return.

Be good all of you big grin
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Post by hedge on 03.03.10 17:00

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:
@hedge wrote:I wasn't aware that there were lurid reports as a result of his theory that Madeleine might still be in portugal but in an area not reached by usual modes of policing, media appeals etc.

I saw newspaper reports that Madeleine was alive and being held in a lawless village within a 15km radius of PDL. The reports were attributed to Dave Edgar.
I am logging off now to get the evening meal ready, but if you want I'll do a Google when I return.

Be good all of you big grin

Oh I think we all know what he said, we are currently discussing it after all, it was just when you referred to 'lurid press reports' I thought you meant these were as a result of him sharing his theory.

I might have caught up now. Either way my point remains, I doubt he had anything to share with the police in terms of detail because I thought it was clear from his words he was theorising and did not have specific evidence that could lead him to specific individuals or villages, if he had then he wouldn't have been musing about potentials he would have been ... you know... there! It's just a possibility, one of many but perhaps hold greater intrigue for him because he fears that these areas have not been examined as closely as they might, it was about the only geographical location left only to the PJ and legally not allowed to be double checked until fairly recently and of course by now it may be too late etc
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Post by vaguely1 on 03.03.10 17:19

@bunnie1 wrote:
@hedge wrote:
@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Just had a thought about this file coming to light, and information being filed away by the PJ.

Dave Edgar said he believed Madeleine was being held in a lawless village 15kms from PDL, something like that. Do you think he passed that information on to the PJ and that is also in the not relevant box ?
I did wonder at the time why he didn't go and search himself but now realise that it has to be the PJ who instigate any action, though I would have expected the parents to have followed this up with the PJ, being as they knew about this particular lead.

Wasn't he speaking generically, I didn't get the impression from his words that he knew which village and which individual, just that this was his theory, that she was in a less than tourist friendly part of Portugal of which there are a few areas not that far from PdL?
Plenty Hedge - I must say if Madeleine were my missing child I'd be worried about passing anything onto the PJ and this latest release just confirms it.


It seems that NZ are hinting that the original video footage, sent to PT may have been lost or destroyed.

I really hope not. If only that it may make it easier to identify the man and rule out the child as being Madeleine.

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Post by aiyoyo on 03.03.10 18:21

It was reported NZ police investigated it didnt they? Therefore I assume they must have ruled it out.

Thing is: why flash this now when the sighting took place in Dec 2007 and nothing came of it?
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Post by hedge on 03.03.10 18:25

@aiyoyo wrote:It was reported NZ police investigated it didnt they? Therefore I assume they must have ruled it out.

Thing is: why flash this now when the sighting took place in Dec 2007 and nothing came of it?

No the NZ police passed it to Interpol, it seems Interpol sent it to the PJ and PJ marked it not relevant.
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Post by Cath on 03.03.10 18:34

If NZ police investigated it and ruled it out, there'd be a follow up report in the files about that.
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Post by Snowy on 03.03.10 18:36

One of the oddest things in this is the first 'new sighting' named by the papers.

It sounds like George Burke, who claimed he had seen a man dragging a child along towards Lagos marina, iirc.

It came to the investigation's attention because one of the family went down to a pizza place in Luz to get take-aways and the assistant told him that a fellow worker, Burke (or owner, the details seem to vary) had seen this happening on a road as he came back to Luz in a lorry at just before six in the morning.

The whole thing was odd because when the PJ followed it up the pizza place seemed to be holding the guy's passport, which was in a different name. But he'd left town.

They couldn't trace him to speak to him directly and it was dropped.

Now it turns out he was wanted for fraud in the UK, which might explain why he had two names and presumably more than one passport. But at some point he seems to have gone back to the authorities to give a first hand account. So it isn't really a 'new' sighting, more of a slight tidying-up of something that was already in the files.
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Post by hedge on 03.03.10 18:44

So this 'secret file' might actually be made up of a mixture of unchecked out things and checked out things but ones that didn't make it to the investigative files, despite being at least partially investigated... what a confusing mess Sad
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Post by justagrannynow 1 on 04.03.10 7:29

@hedge wrote:So this 'secret file' might actually be made up of a mixture of unchecked out things and checked out things but ones that didn't make it to the investigative files, despite being at least partially investigated... what a confusing mess Sad

It certainly is. I had another thought about this situation with the univestigated sightings. If the local police from around the globe have to pass the information to the PJ who are the force responsible for the investigation before they can take action, does this not knock all the appeals from the parents for information on the head? I can understand them making them, but if the power to decide what is, or is not investigated lies with the PJ, surely we are in an impasse.
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Post by jmbd on 04.03.10 9:21

How quickly it could be cleared up when investigated.
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Post by Cath on 04.03.10 9:24

Thanks Vaguely1 for posting that.

Yes jmbd looks like they quickly cleared it up. Wonder if it's done now or at the time and if so, if it's in the released files as well.
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Post by vaguely1 on 04.03.10 9:28

They were posting a new interview with the shop assistant yesterday......I think it's been cleared up within the last 24 hours.

I guess once all the publicity hit NZ it was pretty quickly sorted.

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Post by Cath on 04.03.10 9:32

You're probably right about that Vaguely1. There's also been the NZ Police officer who's said the PJ didn't ask them to do a follow up.
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Post by vaguely1 on 04.03.10 9:42

yeah, I guess it was shown on NZ news -it just goes to show how much easier things would have been if they had been able to do that in the first place. That little girl looked so much like Madeleine it must have been horrible for her parents/grandparents to have to see that image and wonder if it was her all those months ago Sad

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Post by Cath on 04.03.10 9:46

Yes, but it's also horrible for that little girl (on the cctv/photo) and her parents. They've been all over the papers.
If the PJ had asked NZ police to investigate it and filed the update, non of it would have happened.
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Post by vaguely1 on 04.03.10 9:52

Was think the same about the surveillance photos in the Mail today. I'm wondering why the papers are allowed to publish covert photographs of people.

It's all a strange mess isn't it really.

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Post by hedge on 04.03.10 9:59

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:
@hedge wrote:So this 'secret file' might actually be made up of a mixture of unchecked out things and checked out things but ones that didn't make it to the investigative files, despite being at least partially investigated... what a confusing mess Sad

It certainly is. I had another thought about this situation with the univestigated sightings. If the local police from around the globe have to pass the information to the PJ who are the force responsible for the investigation before they can take action, does this not knock all the appeals from the parents for information on the head? I can understand them making them, but if the power to decide what is, or is not investigated lies with the PJ, surely we are in an impasse.

Absolutely, that was always the limitation with the parents making appeals, they could never be sure that if someone chose to take it to the portuguese police (as some people might feel more comfortable doing) that it would be followed up, but what else could they do? They can't stop, the next appeal might be the one.
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Post by hedge on 04.03.10 10:01


Good news for the family concerned, hopefully people will do the decent thing and remove any copies they might have floating around online and give the child her privacy but heartbreaking for the McCanns again.
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Post by Chinagirl on 04.03.10 10:07

It is of course sad for the McCanns that this has turned into a deadend, but that was always a strong possibility. It should have been cleared up more than two years ago, without any publicity for the innocent family involved. Shameful that it wasn't.

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Post by justagrannynow 1 on 04.03.10 10:13

I do think that the only way to get any movement is for the case to be reopened. The parents believe that Gonçalo Amarals book hinders the search for Mdadeleine, but surely the present situation whereby the PJ can decide what to investigate or not is, IMO, more harmful to trying to discover what happened.
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Post by hedge on 04.03.10 10:21

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:I do think that the only way to get any movement is for the case to be reopened. The parents believe that Gonçalo Amarals book hinders the search for Mdadeleine, but surely the present situation whereby the PJ can decide what to investigate or not is, IMO, more harmful to trying to discover what happened.

It's not just the parents who believe that Amarals book harms the search for their daughter, the portuguese judiciary agree.

The situation with the PJ has aways been an issue I beleive, despite the McCanns giving full and vocal compliments to the PJ and the work they did, objective viewers could always see the gaping problems in the investigation, but again what could they do, being critical would run the risk of pissing off the people best placed to find their child. Even now that they have finally expressed their disappointment and criticism they are restrained in their anger and not aimed it squarely where it should be. It's been a balancing act since day 1.
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