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A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations Mm11

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Post by rainbow-fairy 13.05.12 15:07

A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations 281194 Paulo Christovao!

What.A.Book.

Without wishing to detract from Goncalo Amaral and 'The Truth of the Lie', a book I love and a man I find an inspiration, I actually think this book is better.



Will it be translated and freely available to read/buy in UK? A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations 3087562708

Are there any libel actions against it? (I fail to see how there could be, but...)

IF the general public (including the indifferent and/or undecided read this, there would be a real sea change of opinion, imho.

It is logical, easy to follow and invites the reader to reach their own conclusions.

Fabulous.

THANK YOU 'admin' for the translations.A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations 725573



any thoughts good or bad on the book very very welcome

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by russiandoll 13.05.12 16:10

Was wondering where to post a comment, I read this non-stop a couple of days ago.
Great stuff, totally believable and engrossing. I cannot wait to read it in full.
Have been trying to work out the cryptic reference to the" Luz Key" and confidence in the numbers the 5, the 2 the 3 and the 1!

thanks so much for the translations.

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Post by friedtomatoes 13.05.12 16:27

You can find translations on the MCF forum in the reference section. It is there that ref is made to kate mccann saying the dog reacted because she had dealt with dead bodies before the holidays.
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Post by nomendelta 13.05.12 16:42

Reading thru this now.

I always thought that the "working with corpses" defence came from Aunty Phil rather than being something specifically said by Kate so that's most interesting.

Even more interesting is when faced with a hypothesis of something happening in the apartment - something which was then hidden and turned into an abduction she reacts with "Then prove it". No shock? No horror or outrage? Just "prove it"?
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Post by rainbow-fairy 13.05.12 17:23

I really, really rate Amaral BUT I do find 'Truth of the Lie' skips a bit...
THIS book, though - if anyone with just two or three brain cells read it would be of the same opinion as the PJ - concealment and simulation.

BTW, russiandoll, I am also working on the 'Luz Key' I'm going by names and apt no's as a start, may have something, not sure yet!!! Wink Very cryptic...

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Post by Smokeandmirrors 13.05.12 20:26

The Luz key is intriguing. All I can think at the moment is 5 members of the McCann family, 2 adults, 3 children and the 1 who vanished.
Perhaps it is a police code, like the numbers police use over radio waves to secretly communicate. Perhaps PeterMac could verify if police forces have such codes.

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Post by Ribisl 13.05.12 23:59

Just finished reading it all in one sitting. Intriguing and extremely insightful. I'd love to read the full version, though it's unlikely it will ever be translated into English while the MCs rule the British media. Btw the only copy I could find was the original costing USD45.93 (!) from amazon.com.

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Post by roy rovers 14.05.12 0:20

nomendelta wrote:Reading thru this now.

I always thought that the "working with corpses" defence came from Aunty Phil rather than being something specifically said by Kate so that's most interesting.

Even more interesting is when faced with a hypothesis of something happening in the apartment - something which was then hidden and turned into an abduction she reacts with "Then prove it". No shock? No horror or outrage? Just "prove it"?

Anyone else remember the tv cop show (must have been decades ago so perhaps not) where the suspect says 'prove it' and the cop says 'whenever they say that I KNOW they're guilty'.
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Post by rainbow-fairy 14.05.12 7:21

roy rovers wrote:
nomendelta wrote:Reading thru this now.

I always thought that the "working with corpses" defence came from Aunty Phil rather than being something specifically said by Kate so that's most interesting.

Even more interesting is when faced with a hypothesis of something happening in the apartment - something which was then hidden and turned into an abduction she reacts with "Then prove it". No shock? No horror or outrage? Just "prove it"?

Anyone else remember the tv cop show (must have been decades ago so perhaps not) where the suspect says 'prove it' and the cop says 'whenever they say that I KNOW they're guilty'.
roy rovers, I believe that is probably true.
However, I just know they are guilty (or know who is) simply because:
1)Evidence (both existent and non-existent) tells us so;
2)Forensic linguistics tells us so;
3)Body language and behaviour analysis tells us so.

There's more, but the above is enough for me.

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Post by PeterMac 14.05.12 7:29

roy rovers wrote:Anyone else remember the tv cop show (must have been decades ago so perhaps not) where the suspect says 'prove it' and the cop says 'whenever they say that I KNOW they're guilty'.
It is not just in the cop shows.
It works in real life. Anyone who says that is clearly guilty, and any cop out of probation has worked it out.
As is anyone who says
"To be honest... "
"I swear on my baby's life..."
"I am telling the truth..."

and many other expressions.
If people are telling the truth they just tell it.
Truth is mundane and boring, and needs no elaboration
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Post by rainbow-fairy 14.05.12 8:24

PeterMac wrote:
roy rovers wrote:Anyone else remember the tv cop show (must have been decades ago so perhaps not) where the suspect says 'prove it' and the cop says 'whenever they say that I KNOW they're guilty'.
It is not just in the cop shows.
It works in real life. Anyone who says that is clearly guilty, and any cop out of probation has worked it out.
As is anyone who says
"To be honest... "
"I swear on my baby's life..."
"I am telling the truth..."

and many other expressions.
If people are telling the truth they just tell it.
Truth is mundane and boring, and needs no elaboration
Oh how true PeterMac, yet STILL the McCanns fail EVERY TIME!
Being a 'Bonny One' I'm sure you'll know what I mean by a game show called 'Goldenballs' (with Jasper Carrott). My autistic son loves it so to see it on was a big thrill, so I watched it and I correctly predicted the outcome of the game. Big? Clever? No. Anyone could do it. EG;

1)Contestant one was asked "Do you have the killer ball?" He replied "I do not"

2)Contestant 2 asked same. She replied "No I haven't, if I had I'd tell you, I swear..."

I said to my 12 year old "Watch this. Number one is telling the truth. Either that or he has extensively studied the language of lies
Guess what? Yep, he was telling the truth but no-one believed him.

In a later round, Contestant 2 was shaking her head while making 'positive' assertions - lying again. I didn't miss one. It was like watching K+G in action!

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by rainbow-fairy 14.05.12 8:32

Have put a link 2 this book with cover photo on my FB page, hope somebody will read it - its not long! The longest for me was loading up the pages Sad

BTW: Paperback 'madeleine' is already in the Tesco's 2 for £7 or £3.86 each! I can't think why Wink

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by anil39200 14.05.12 11:45

Have just finished reading the translation on MCF. One initial question I have is about Dr GM. In the book, one of the policeman alludes to GM being in line for a position within government, presumably the then Labour government as he is also said to have raised funds for New Labour(? according to an earlier post I have read on another thread), does anyone know if there is any evidence to support this idea as I think it is intriguing given the sleaze involved with both the last governments, the cronyism, the talk of cover ups and the fact that we now have the LI going on and another government up to its underpants with corruption, albeit of another political colour? It would be interesting to know just what was promised if anything to the man and it may give an insight into what there was to lose? Need to reflect on my reading now as a possible theory is emerging.
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Post by jd 18.05.12 15:32

I think the Luz Key 5-2-3-1 cryptic clue definitely has a reference to the church keys & together with the comments made by GA that the priests know what happened is also a reference to the church hence the keys. Also, is he giving a clue about someone getting cross to someone little and hitting someone??? The 'four' could be a clue of 4 people being there?

Chapter 28 – The millionaire bet
I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

If we read the foreword of the book and Paulo Pereira Cristovão words, again we have reference to the keys...interesting the use of the word chip too

Foreword from the Author - "The Challenge"
Due to legal issues, it cannot be me, the author, to tell you what the truth, the truth of the case, is; but I can assure you that you can find it here, among the lines of this book. This book represents the opportunity to say the things that have not been written yet, and, essentially, what nobody has thought yet, or did not have the courage to reveal. Hence the challenge that is proposed to you, that of finding what is real in between the absurd of true facts and of fiction.

Buying a book does not give us the power to "know" the truth, as if it was a chip that is implanted in us, right after we pass the checkout and pay for a heap of leaves and a binder. Buying a book means that we have the key to open the door into something that will make us think. After that, then, will come Knowledge. Here and now. Please do think.

Is this the number 2 of the 5-2-3-1 Luz Key?
Chapter 22 – Pray for us sinners
Following the excellent and well-knitted campaign that promoted two key notions on a worldwide basis, “Maddie disappeared” and “Maddie was abducted”, British diplomacy, which had opened so many doors for the McCann all across the world, ultimately proved several things, including that those who hold the power to influence are closer to the divine graces, while those who do not hold it, must insist in prayers

Benedict XVI was the high point of a campaign that had started much earlier, with the visible and well publicized visits at the church in Luz, constantly appealing to religion and to God. The visit to the Vatican represented a conquest for those that were coordinating the pro-McCann campaign; yet, nothing could be done when that State decided to redraw all references to Madeleine from their official site, a clear message that they wanted to distance themselves from the case.

What led to this happening only days before the first lab test results were revealed? Coincidences? Surely not!
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Post by Guest 21.10.12 18:47

Francisco was talking about the final redaction of the rogatory letters that were to be sent to the British authorities, and which included the request for several diligences. The letters are a poisoned gift, and despite the fact that they target several people, there are two persons who are of special interest to the policemen. And those are not the McCanns.

5-2-3-1

Group 1 (persons with whom the couple dined every night during the holidays)
• David Payne, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Fiona Payne, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Diane Webster, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Russell O'Brien, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Jane Tanner, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Rachael Oldfield, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Matthew Oldfield, with address at ... and telephone no. ...

Group 2 (independent customers and employees of the Ocean Club who saw the behaviour of Kate and Gerry on the day of the disappearance):
• Dan Smith, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Steve Carpenter, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Carolyn Carpenter, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Jeremy Wilkins, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Catriona Baker, with address at ... and telephone no. ...

Group 3 (people who saw and/or spoke with Kate and Gerry at the time they noticed Madeleine's disappearance):
• Patricia Cameron, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Paul Seddon, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Michelle Thompson, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Emma Knights, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Alan Pike, with address at ... and telephone no. ...

Group 4 (people who knew the daily routine of Kate and Gerry and their relationship with their children before coming to Portugal):
• Janet Kennedy, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Amanda Coxon, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Karen McCalman, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Patricia Cameron, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Sharon Lewin, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Hayley Plummer, with address at ... and telephone no. ...

Group 5 (persons closely involved in the routine of Kate and Gerry in Portugal after the disappearance of Madeleine and their emotional state)
• Sandy Cameron, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Michael Wright, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Clarence Mitchell, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Linda McQueen, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Nicky Gill, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Justine McGuinness, with address at ... and telephone no. ...

Group 6 (Professionals who can confirm that there was no abnormality in the way Kate and Gerry treated their children):
• Dr. Phil Hussey, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
• Dr Ian Schofield, with address at ... and telephone no. ...
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Post by tigger 21.10.12 19:35

Who highlighted those two names?

Here are some phone calls which surprised me: (from the timeline of the 3rd/4th)


23.40 Gerry calls Trish Cameron (11.13 minutes)
23.52 Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (2.30 minutes

00.00 and 00.30, the police arrived.

0.00.27 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (128 seconds)
0.05.00 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (3 seconds)
0.05.45 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)
0.06.15 am Gerry calls Brian and Janet Kennedy (2.47 minutes)
0.13.14 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (3 seconds)
0.13.50 am Kate calls Sue and Brian Healy (407 seconds)
0.21.36 am Gerry calls Trish Cameron (23 seconds)
0.23.12 am Gerry calls …. (3.55 minutes)
0.27.07 am Trish Cameron calls Gerry (2.28 minutes)

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Post by Guest 21.10.12 19:56

I highlighted them, Tigger, using the interview list that the McCanns gave to the PJ's and the "key". 5231

It's just trying the numbers from another angle. What interested me was the piece that was written:

It’s a bit like those routine police actions, when you go to a hotel to find out whether a certain individual is staying there, and you ask the receptionist for the guest book. You write down seven names at hazard, and an eighth name, which is the one that actually matters. The receptionist is watching, and although he gave the policeman all the information that was needed, he ended up knowing nothing about the person who was actually the target of that action.

It's a very interesting book.
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Post by tigger 22.10.12 7:27

Finn wrote:I highlighted them, Tigger, using the interview list that the McCanns gave to the PJ's and the "key". 5231

It's just trying the numbers from another angle. What interested me was the piece that was written:

It’s a bit like those routine police actions, when you go to a hotel to find out whether a certain individual is staying there, and you ask the receptionist for the guest book. You write down seven names at hazard, and an eighth name, which is the one that actually matters. The receptionist is watching, and although he gave the policeman all the information that was needed, he ended up knowing nothing about the person who was actually the target of that action.

It's a very interesting book.

I shall read it asap. It's just because you highlighted TC - it had already struck me that the long 11 + minute phonecall followed by several others, marks her out in the telephone list.
You've obviously done a lot of reading - Wright too is very interesting. Also had his children baptised in the faith very soon afterwards, they were around 11/12 years old? So what brought on that sudden conversion? Redemption?

It's a better explanation of the puzzle than any other I've read!

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Post by Guest 22.10.12 19:05

The aforementioned police cunning is revealed in these details. The police has established the logical chain of events a long time ago, and has also understood, for quite some time, that they will hardly find the queen evidence. The process will have to live from details. From the circumstances and the detection of small failures from the person that committed the crime, that concealed it, and logically, has lied.

- Let’s see whether the English dispatch this swiftly so we can advance – Francisco says, never taking his eyes off the papers, and putting them into a sequence. Formalities abound, and they want to make sure that nothing fails in this diligence that is so important.

- There is no hurry anymore, Francisco – João Tavares notices -, the one who had to leave is gone now, now all it takes is for us to move calmly, but well, because the bad deeds are done. If we were looking for a little girl that was locked up somewhere in a room of the house of a dangerous, disgusting paedophile, then we would be in a hurry, but as we know, actually, as only we know, that is not a theory that we will swallow anymore.

It's hard to understand with all of the political hype and pressure they were depending on the McCann's invitation to question such important witnesses. It makes you wonder about power and justice.
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Post by david_uk 30.10.12 9:21

jd wrote:I think the Luz Key 5-2-3-1 cryptic clue definitely has a reference to the church keys & together with the comments made by GA that the priests know what happened is also a reference to the church hence the keys. Also, is he giving a clue about someone getting cross to someone little and hitting someone??? The 'four' could be a clue of 4 people being there?

Chapter 28 – The millionaire bet
I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

If we read the foreword of the book and Paulo Pereira Cristovão words, again we have reference to the keys...interesting the use of the word chip too

Foreword from the Author - "The Challenge"
Due to legal issues, it cannot be me, the author, to tell you what the truth, the truth of the case, is; but I can assure you that you can find it here, among the lines of this book. This book represents the opportunity to say the things that have not been written yet, and, essentially, what nobody has thought yet, or did not have the courage to reveal. Hence the challenge that is proposed to you, that of finding what is real in between the absurd of true facts and of fiction.

Buying a book does not give us the power to "know" the truth, as if it was a chip that is implanted in us, right after we pass the checkout and pay for a heap of leaves and a binder. Buying a book means that we have the key to open the door into something that will make us think. After that, then, will come Knowledge. Here and now. Please do think.

Is this the number 2 of the 5-2-3-1 Luz Key?
Chapter 22 – Pray for us sinners
Following the excellent and well-knitted campaign that promoted two key notions on a worldwide basis, “Maddie disappeared” and “Maddie was abducted”, British diplomacy, which had opened so many doors for the McCann all across the world, ultimately proved several things, including that those who hold the power to influence are closer to the divine graces, while those who do not hold it, must insist in prayers

Benedict XVI was the high point of a campaign that had started much earlier, with the visible and well publicized visits at the church in Luz, constantly appealing to religion and to God. The visit to the Vatican represented a conquest for those that were coordinating the pro-McCann campaign; yet, nothing could be done when that State decided to redraw all references to Madeleine from their official site, a clear message that they wanted to distance themselves from the case.

What led to this happening only days before the first lab test results were revealed? Coincidences? Surely not!

most logical explanation yet. Who are the four? K & G we would assume, and who else?

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Post by Guest 30.10.12 11:54

I just found translations on TMCF. It seems that only the introduction is a complete translation. The other chapters are resumes. If someone could guide me to a complete translation, I would be grateful.

However, first things which struck me in this translated introduction [can anyone vote for its accuracy?] were these:

Everyone knows who Gerry and Kate McCann, Russell and Jane Tanner are; Matthew, Rachel and Diane Webster, Clarence Mitchell and Gordon Brown.
No mention of the Paynes .... ?!!!
BTW also no last name mentioned for Russell, Matt & Rachel.

Everyone knows where the Ocean Club is located, its layout, the location of the Tapas Bar, the church, the beach of Luz, the village with the same name, the Priest and the twins.
Priest and twins are mentioned in a phrase about locations ...? Bizarre.
Priest single not Priests plural. Which one does he mean?
Is this a reference to the church?


In spite of this, there are not many who know what prompted the disappearance of this little girl, who was responsible for it, how and why.
Not many who know, but there are ....

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Post by Ribisl 30.10.12 19:01

I have been rereading it recently and I too was struck by the missing Paynes. Why? Also I was surprised that the author appears to give as much credence to Danie Kugel and his quantum sniffer machine as he does to Eddie and Keela.

Haven't been able to check the original but I imagine the author uses the word 'chave' which is perhaps better translated here as 'code' rather than 'key'. Luz Code may still refer to a key that literally opens some door or a cipher with a hidden meaning.

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A Estrala de Madeleine - thoughts and observations Empty I

Post by aniandr 30.10.12 20:31

I still thing it refers to the alter in the Church. A box in the alter
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Post by Olive_Boyle 30.10.12 22:06

I didn't know this book existed til now and am very interested to have a read.

The authors name is familiar and although it says this "by Paulo Pereira Cristovão, Former PJ inspector, president of the Portuguese Missing Children Association [APCD]" I wondered if someone would be so kind as to explain if he was directly involved in the case or if not how he got his information.

Just interested and would help to put it into context for me.

Thanks.
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Post by aniandr 01.12.12 15:42

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/5231.htm
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