toothbrushes

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in this forum, but being relatively new, I haven't managed to go through all the threads yet.

Something just occurred to me about the single toothbrush for all 3 children.

I sometimes use old toothbrushes for cleaning difficult areas like where the worktop meets the wall and the grout in the bathroom tiles. They are very good for getting in to dificult to clean areas.

Is it possible that there were 3 childrens toothbrushes at one point but then the 'abductor and his mate' used 2 of them to clean the apartment on the night of the abduction, and didn't replace them.

Silly me - I just realised if that had happened K+G would have reported 2 out of 3 tooth brushes were missing rather than saying they only had one for all 3 children.

Given how tight they were/are I wouldn't be surprised if the "one toothbrush" thing was actually true!

It is a shame that the cleaner wasn't asked how many toothbrushes were in 5a when she cleaned it. I doubt she would remember now but she would have at the time.

IMO all children originally had their own toothbrush. I don't know anyone who doesn't give each child their own toothbrush to help prevent cross infections if one is ill and the McCanns being Drs would surely know this.

I'm certainly not over the top when it comes to hygiene but the thought of shared toothbrushes really makes me feel sick. Once I accidentally used my son's and, on realising it, I threw it away. There's no way he would have used it again and nor would I if someone had used mine.

Are we sure that this isn't a forum myth?

Here's a link, now all we have to do is to find the quote attributed to Gerry.

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com/2011/06/gerry-mccanns-lie-about-children.html
quote
Gerry McCanns lie about children sharing toothbrushes and hairbrushes.
Gerry McCann 'the lack of DNA due to the three children sharing a toothbrush and a hairbrush.'

The PJ should have checked the hair and toothbrushes for drugs even though McCanns response was absurd. It was hard for the police, they thought they were dealing with a grieving family but the McCanns were trying to keep one step ahead of them.

The children did not share toothbrushes or hairbrushes but Madeleines toothbrush would have revealed a long term drug use from her saliva and her hairbrush, ditto, so both items had to be disposed of.

Even now if Madeleines remains were found there would still be the possibilty of hair which could be tested, this made me wonder when it was mentioned hair without roots had been found , if the McCanns had cut her hair very short so as not to implicate them with long term drug use.

Madeleine had a sleep problem, they tried to slide around it with the explanation of the chart on the fridge BUT we now know from the book 'of deceit' the children were drugged.

So, it was not the DNA they were trying to hide but drug use, a possible reason they needed to hide her body to avoid a PM.

http://www.safekids.co.uk/OralHygiene.html

http://uk.ask.com/web?q=How+long+can+drugs+be+detected+in+long+hair%3F&qsrc=3082&o=420&l=dir

How long can drugs be detected in long hair ?
unquote

One, Madeleine's toothbrush was missing along with hairbrush and items of her clothing; two, her parents claimed it wasn't there because the children shared a toothbrush. Deductive reasoning leads one to a glaringly obvious conclusion. Proving it is another matter however.

@FH wrote:Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in this forum, but being relatively new, I haven't managed to go through all the threads yet.

Something just occurred to me about the single toothbrush for all 3 children.

I sometimes use old toothbrushes for cleaning difficult areas like where the worktop meets the wall and the grout in the bathroom tiles. They are very good for getting in to dificult to clean areas.

Is it possible that there were 3 childrens toothbrushes at one point but then the 'abductor and his mate' used 2 of them to clean the apartment on the night of the abduction, and didn't replace them.

Silly me - I just realised if that had happened K+G would have reported 2 out of 3 tooth brushes were missing rather than saying they only had one for all 3 children.

Sorry but I can believe you posted that

Should that read "can't believe" rather than "can believe"?

Jean wrote:Should that read "can't believe" rather than "can believe"?

Yes, sorry, missed out the T


No disrespect meant in any case to the poster. Just cant imagine an abductor or two grabbing the brushes and thinking this will remove all blood or cadaver odo
ur. Sorry. Gone.

I'm assuming that FH was being facetious.

Jean wrote:I'm assuming that FH was being facetious.

Of course, stupid me


BUT there is no back up for the toothbrush stories

never mind not important

I may be wrong of course about FH's sense of humour!

I do agree though - and I have posted before - that nobody has yet found any quotes from Team McCann to back up the shared toothbrush story. It certainly has set my teeth on edge though!!!

Jean wrote:I may be wrong of course about FH's sense of humour!

I do agree though - and I have posted before - that nobody has yet found any quotes from Team McCann to back up the shared toothbrush story. It certainly has set my teeth on edge though!!!

Theres a few things that have done the rounds much without evidence i dont dismiss them outright but prefer to stick to the facts as much as much as possible even though the AGENDA is to confuse everythjng from day ONE aka jemmied broken smashed shutters, having said that wull not ignore anecdotal evidence such as kate mccann getting her hair done two days later, nice PRIORITY when she thought her kid was with perverts, neither will i ignore a post by someone who met prof barclay on a train and he told her his belief was it was staged, nice chatting jean, laters

Here is the article from the Mirror regarding Prof Barclay......


By Stewart Maclean
Comments
18 Oct 2007 00:00

McCanns evidence 'doesn't add up'


A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.


A team of British crime specialists who have scrutinised the Madeleine McCann case claim there are inconsistencies in her parents' version of events.

The retired experts believe there is a question mark over Kate's response when she discovered the four-year-old was missing.

Forensic scientist Professor David Barclay, part of the four-man team who reviewed the case for Channel Four's Dispatches show, said: "We examined all of the available evidence and the conclusion we came to was that there appeared to be some significant inconsistencies.

"One thing we looked for was any sign of 'staging', the term we use for the actions of someone who has committed a crime and wants to 'stage it' to appear someone else has done it.

"The first words apparently spoken by Kate McCann when she discovered Madeleine had vanished were significant. She is supposed to have said 'They've taken her, they've taken her' - which seems a strange choice of phrase.

"I don't think that would have been my first reaction if my child had gone missing."

Prof Barclay also questioned the McCanns' claims that an abductor got into their Praia da Luz holiday flat through the back shutters.
He said: "We checked the scene of the crime and it struck us immediately how unlikely it would be for anyone to try and access the apartment through the back windows. The shutters there were firmly shut and couldn't be opened and the car park behind the flat was overlooked.

"We're not saying it was impossible to have gained entry that way, but with all of our collected years of experience to us it seemed highly unlikely and a very implausible scenario.

"It could be that claim is consistent with staging, but without full knowledge of all of the facts in the case it would be impossible to say for sure."

Prof Barclay visited the crime scene along with ex-Detective Chief Superintendent Chris Stevenson, the man who caught Soham killer Ian Huntley and psychological profiler David Canter.

The will seen on tonight's show visiting key sites and seeing footage of the police in action.

Prof Barclay, 62, added: "There has been a tendency to criticise the Portuguese police but on the whole they did a pretty good job.

"However, they made two big mistakes. Firstly, they did not seal of the crime scene anywhere nearly quick enough. Secondly, in my opinion they were not aggressive enough with the McCanns in the first stage of the investigation.

"It is actually for the parents' benefit in cases like this that the police tackle them robustly and demand a comprehensive account of their movements during the relevant timeframe."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-evidence-doesnt-add-up-514328

If there were just one toothbrush, I would be surprised. This is primarily because of Kate's apparant obsession with hygiene. It seems the children were bathed each and every night. I found that rather odd, to be honest. Nobody I know bathes their children every single night, especially whilst on holiday. Maybe I have a particularl dirty bunch of friends but not usual as far as I can see.

Also the statements from the famous visit by Payne and Kate wrapped in a towel episode, when all statements are read, it would see Kate had both a bath and a shower that night. Again, a bit OTT in my dirty circle !

@sami wrote:If there were just one toothbrush, I would be surprised. This is primarily because of Kate's apparant obsession with hygiene. It seems the children were bathed each and every night. I found that rather odd, to be honest. Nobody I know bathes their children every single night, especially whilst on holiday. Maybe I have a particularl dirty bunch of friends but not usual as far as I can see.

Also the statements from the famous visit by Payne and Kate wrapped in a towel episode, when all statements are read, it would see Kate had both a bath and a shower that night. Again, a bit OTT in my dirty circle !

Kate also washed curtains on holiday and then washed cuddlecat taking away the smell of her daughter which no parent would have done in the circumstances. Even with the child there, washing a 'cuddly' is fraught with danger - danger of massive tantrums. She washed a T short of M's with a small tea stain. Why bother on holiday?

but then she took clothes on holiday which had been used at work immediately prior to the holiday and that was the reason given for the smell of death on her clothes the dogs found. that rather contradicts the pristine image we get from the other actions.

I cannot believe there was only one toothbrush and hairbrush. Like you sami I wouldn't be obsessed with washing but would never, and nor would my friends, economise on toothbrushes. they do not cost much, you can get budget buys in packs. And as a GP, the surgery would have got free samples of medicines and could have got free toothbrushes as well. Wouldn't the NHS have dental health promotion campaigns from time to time and material and tootbrushes would be supplied to GPs as well as to schools.

@friedtomatoes wrote:

Jean wrote:I'm assuming that FH was being facetious.

Of course, stupid me


BUT there is no back up for the toothbrush stories

never mind not important

I was referring to the media reference to the abductor leaving no trace because he/they cleaned up after themselves.

I thought the one toothbrush story was actually documented somewhere as fact. I'll see if I can find it. It was something to do with generating a reference DNA profile for M, but she did not have her own toothbrush, so the authorities had to come back to the UK and ended using saliva from a pillow and a spot of blood on a piece of cardboard (I'm assuming this is a baby's guthrie test that the health board had kept) If the heel prick blood was from baby M, then the DNA profile should have been accurate.

two people using toothbrushed to scrub bleach into stains to remove them/destroy DNA could explain why there was only 1 toothbrush where you would have expected 3. In a panic you would use the things you have to hand.

@pauline wrote:[
Kate also washed curtains on holiday and then washed cuddlecat taking away the smell of her daughter which no parent would have done in the circumstances. Even with the child there, washing a 'cuddly' is fraught with danger - danger of massive tantrums. She washed a T short of M's with a small tea stain. Why bother on holiday?

I've often wondered why she made such a thing of washing the tea stained t-shirt, why bother mentioning it at all. It occurs to me that it is another one of these silly proofs of existance, you know, don't be silly and suggest she wasn't here on the 3rd or even the second, she must have been 'cos she spilt stuff and I had to wash her t-shirt and it happened like we said see!?!?

But to stay on topic, I'm not having the one toothbrush between 3 nonsense either. Do G and the lovely K share the same toothbrush also I wonder? Actually, I think FH makes a very good point, if there was blood on say floor tiles and the groutting between, and you had nothing else to hand, you would indeed more than likely use a toothbrush to scrub the stain away. And you wouldn't use your own, because you will need that, so grab one each of the kids brushes and get to work. 3-2=1

I'm with Steel Magnolias:

Drugs - whatever it is they routinely gave Maddie, it would show up in her hair and her DNA - and the PJ was already suspicous of the deep sleep of the twins. They were bound to test for it. They're doctors so they'd know that perfectly well.
They'd also not be sure whether the twins would be tested. I believe it was requested but refused. Then after some months - and a number of entries in the diary about how difficult bedtime was - the twins' hair was cut very short and they had a test done themselves.
Which was negative.

@tigger wrote:I'm with Steel Magnolias:

Then after some months - and a number of entries in the diary about how difficult bedtime was - the twins' hair was cut very short and they had a test done themselves.
Which was negative.

Quelle Surprise!!!

Steel Magnolias could well be right, wouldn't bet against it.

Just trawling through Textusa's site I came across a comment by Ironside aka SteelMagnolia:

http://www.textusa.blogspot.pt/2010/03/why-kate-could-never-fool-cuddle-cat.html

Post number 20

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2188493.ece

Memories of a lost daughter and why Kate washed Cuddle Cat

From The Sunday Times August 5, 2007

Memories of a lost daughter 

The link Ironside gave did not work so she copied the majority into the comment and this bit is about toothbrushes.

"Going home 

"I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to go back into our family home. I can't bear the thought of it. We'd lived in that house for a year and it was a really happy family home. We have so many happy memories in that house. 

"Madeleine's room is shocking pink. She chose the colour. 

"When we left the house we were organised, I was ready the day before. We left early, put our clothes on and grabbed our toothbrushes. We were so excited. "

So it does sound as though they all had toothbrushes at least before they left home!

@Angelique wrote:Just trawling through Textusa's site I came across a comment by Ironside aka SteelMagnolia:

http://www.textusa.blogspot.pt/2010/03/why-kate-could-never-fool-cuddle-cat.html

Post number 20

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2188493.ece

Memories of a lost daughter and why Kate washed Cuddle Cat

From The Sunday Times August 5, 2007

Memories of a lost daughter 

The link Ironside gave did not work so she copied the majority into the comment and this bit is about toothbrushes.

"Going home 

"I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to go back into our family home. I can't bear the thought of it. We'd lived in that house for a year and it was a really happy family home. We have so many happy memories in that house. 

"Madeleine's room is shocking pink. She chose the colour. 

"When we left the house we were organised, I was ready the day before. We left early, put our clothes on and grabbed our toothbrushes. We were so excited. "

So it does sound as though they all had toothbrushes at least before they left home!

It's fairytale stuff. No 'middle class' mother with three kids would pack their wet, used toothbrushes last minute into a bag to go on holiday. It's just nonsense - it's an insult to Mills & Boon to compare - it's more like Famous Five (forgive the irony). Kate worked part-time and had a nanny. She made a big deal in her book of the clothes Madeleine was wearing 'Monsoon and Gap' being something like an indulgence. It's just nonsense that an organised woman wouldn't have packed three new toothbrushes for the children.

Perhaps it's those chavvy roots rearing their ugly head again! Toothbrushes plural could mean one for herself and Gerry and one for the children?

With apologies to all chavs who wouldn't dream of doing anything so unsavoury.

It would be forgiveable to forget to pack the brushes from home.  Perhaps they had trouble getting suitable kiddie sized replacements in the Luz supermarket? Why not say so?  As for doctors allowing sharing of toothbrushes, no, not credible at all.

@dentdelion wrote:It would be forgiveable to forget to pack the brushes from home.  Perhaps they had trouble getting suitable kiddie sized replacements in the Luz supermarket? Why not say so?  As for doctors allowing sharing of toothbrushes, no, not credible at all.

At that time there were another 3 small supermarkets in PDL and a Farmacia just a few metres away from the Baptista market so unlikely there would be a problem getting child sized replacements if toothbrushes had been forgotten.  One is such an odd number though.  Why pack one and leave the other two behind?  Or, if all forgotten and buying replacements, why buy only one?  It really is implausible that the children of 2 doctors would be sharing one toothbrush and there are no credible scenarios which would explain the lack, such as forgetting them or not being able to get replacements in (the wild badlands of) PDL.

Someone mentioned earlier that proving 2 brushes were missing therefore were used in a clean up then disposed of would be a problem.  Jurors would be able to make up their own mind if this point were raised, particularly if the defence were unable to provide a plausible explanation for the lack.  In a trial it can be small, easily overlooked details like this which can have quite an impact on jurors.  Perhaps one day soon we will find out, provided Grange is not a whitewash after all.