November 2007

Because of the first Panorama programma, aired in November 2007 - I realised that quite a lot of things were happening in November.
Not to make this too long, I'm just posting a few dates at a time - starting with:


1st November 2007
Gerry McCann returns to work at Glenfield Hospital, for 3 afternoons a week, but with no patient contact.
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The parents of missing Madeleine McCann have released a previously unseen picture of their daughter to mark six months since she disappeared. The photograph of Madeleine sitting on a Shetland pony beside her mother was taken 20 days before her disappearance.
 
Following Saturday's vigil at the Church of St Mary and St John in Rothley, family spokesman Clarence Mitchell spoke to BBC News 24 about recent speculation surrounding the case. He played down reports that friends who dined with the McCanns on the night of Madeleine's disappearance are soon to be designated as suspects by Portuguese police.
 
He said: "If the Portuguese police choose to re-interview some of their friends, it may happen, that is for the Portuguese police and Portuguese authorities to decide. So far they have not said that... we've had no indication whatsoever that the friends will be made arguido."
 
 
Maddie DNA clue in airport bag News of the World
 
Traces found on fleece and stained jeans
 
By Dominic Herbert
 
A BAG of clothes containing DNA linked to Madeleine McCann has been found dumped by a road in Portugal. The white carrier bag was discovered in a layby two weeks ago near Faro airport, the News of the World can reveal.
Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry McCann have learned the bag contained a blue fleece jacket and a pair of adult jeans with traces of DNA that contained "moderate" links to the missing four-year-old. There was also a SHOWER CURTAIN inside.
 
Meanwhile, the bag, found by a passer-by, was sent to a UK lab in Birmingham for forensic tests. A leaked report showed experts concluded the clothes contained bodily fluid and traces of hair that could have come from Maddie.
 
Other items recovered from the bag included a white flannel, a green elastic band, a light green child's T-shirt with a green flower on the front and a pink and blue pencil case with a pink heart motif. A source said: "The bag could be crucial.
 
"The DNA isn't an exact match to Maddie's, but it does link. It is the first clue found outside the apartment complex and could provide a trail."
 The report—which was handed to detectives ten days ago—was obtained by the News of the World from Portuguese police sources. The jeans contained more than 60 different stains.
 The report concluded: "The blue fleece and jeans were found to contain traces of congealed skin and hair. They were found to contain DNA characteristics that could be attributed to Madeleine McCann." No traces of Maddie's DNA were found on any of the other items.

Newspaper reports suggest that the McCanns will consider sueing the Portugese police for £1 million if they are eventually released from their arguido status without charge.
unquote

Thursday 08 November 2007

A number of newspapers headline with the news that 2 of the Tapas group are seeking to provide fresh statements but wish to remain anonymous because they fear pressure from the McCann family and friends. The reports are instantly dismissed as 'simply untrue' by Clarence Mitchell.
 
 PJ files 9/11/07

Conclusion: (FSS lab by Palmer)

In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

The conclusions expressed in the present deposition are based on information available at the date of the examination. In the case that there are changes to that information, or additional information becomes available, it may be necessary to reconsider my interpretation and conclusions. That re-evaluation will be most effective when done immediately prior to any judgement.


Outros apensos 01 volume 2 pages 327 to 333

Saturday 10 November 2007

Police rule out the possibility that Madeleine was buried at sea after a hi-tech Navy search failed to find her body.
But they remain convinced she is dead.

13 November
From the Madeleine Foundation

The Portuguese paper Jornal de Notícias appeared to have some additional information about this meeting. Their report, early in 2008, said: “The meeting - a dinner that Brian Kennedy asked to be discreet and far away from the eyes of the press - took place in the end of last year at a house of Murat's relatives in Burgau (Vila do Bispo). At the dinner were Robert Murat and Kennedy, their respective lawyers, Jennifer Murat and the aunt and uncle of Murat” [NOTE: This appears in fact to have been Ralph Eveleigh, Murat’s uncle, and Sally Eveleigh, his cousin].
If Murat and Kennedy each had one lawyer with them - Pagarete and Smethurst - that makes seven people present at that dinner in Burgau:  Murat and his mother, his uncle Ralph and cousin Sally Eveleigh, who ran the 8-room guest house at Vila do Bispo, two lawyers and Brian Kennedy.
What was discussed at this meeting that Kennedy didn’t want the press to know about?

This evening meeting was either on the same day, or very close to, the meeting that Brian Kennedy had with the Portuguese Police on 13 November 2007 that we referred to above. The two Portuguese Police Inspectors, Ferreira and Paiva, later submitted an account of their strange meeting with Brian Kennedy.
The report, which is amongst the documents contained in the police files,  indicates that right at the start of the meeting, Brian Kennedy was keen to stress that his intentions were ‘purely charitable’, because he felt ‘concerned about cases of child neglect and child abduction’. The Director of Metodo 3, Francisco Marco, presented information to the PJ about three situations, allegedly received via their ‘hotline’.

Wednesday 14 November 2007

Newspapers, quoting a 'senior source', say that Paulo Rebelo and his detectives have drawn up a list of over 100 questions that they wish to put to the McCanns and their friends who holidayed with them in Praia da Luz. This process is known as 'letters of appeal' and, despite drawing up all the legal documents, they are unable to serve them as the public prosecutor has allegedly said that there is not enough evidence to proceed.
 
The 'source' also expressed frustration at the length of time it was taking to get the final test results back from the FSS in Birmingham. These forensic tests are believed to relate to evidence taken from the McCanns' apartment and Renault Scenic hire car, that were sent to the UK for analysis over 3 months ago.
 
Thursday 15 November 2007

The McCanns had hoped that a change in Portugal's secrecy laws yesterday would give them access to vital details on the case - including evidence against them.
But they were told that the law would not apply to them because the case was "too complex". Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "It has dashed their hopes. They have no idea what evidence the police have against them."
Police fear the case may never be solved which means the McCanns may have to live with their arguido status.
A solicitor, reportedly acting for one of the Tapas group who wants to change their story, claims the police inquiry has been hampered by "political interventions."
He alleges Gerry and Kate have received "far beyond normal" help from the UK Government, including calls from PM Gordon Brown, since Maddie vanished from their Praia da Luz apartment on May 3.
The UK-based lawyer told Spanish newspaper El Mundo: "I’m afraid these interventions have been prejudicial not only to my client, but also for determining the truth." 
 
Friday 16 November 2007

Jane Tanner breaks her silence in a BBC Panorama special programme 'The Mystery of Madeleine McCann' to be screened on Monday 19 November. She continues to insist that she saw a child being carried away and now believes that it was Madeleine. Interestingly, she states she found out at 10.00pm when Rachael Oldfield came round to her apartment to tell her. Previously, it was believed that she was at the Tapas bar with the rest of the group.

The Rothley Meeting.

Saturday 17 November 2007

Spanish TV station Antena3 claims that the Tapas9 had a meeting today in a hotel in the UK. This was set up by the Metodo 3 team and lasted from 10 til 4.
 
The alleged purpose of this meeting was to "aclarar donde están las contradicciones" (clear up any possible contradictions in their statements).
 
Antena3 claimed that none of the 9 will change their statements and that 3 are prepared to indicate directly that Robert Murat was in the area both before and after the alarm was raise


Monday 19 November 2007

The Panorama programme 'The Mystery of Madeleine McCann is screened. It contains the first interview with Tapas group member Jane Tanner and previously unseen 'home movie' footage of the McCanns in Praia da Luz, around August time.
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Wednesday 21 November 2007

Portuguese police will travel to Britain to interview the McCanns’ holiday friends 'within days', it has been claimed.
State Prosecutor Jose Magalhaes e Menezes has completed a legal letter with an official request that will be sent to British police this week, the Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias said.
 
Detectives will focus on 'certain contradictions' in the original statements given by the seven friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann the night Madeleine went missing and still consider the witnesses 'fundamental' to the case.

Monday 26 November 2007

'Sources' from within the FSS in Birmingham have allegedly stated that items submitted to them for forensic analysis are being held in high-security storage, under lock and key. In particular, what is thought to be one of the most important pieces of evidence - a section of boot lining from the Renault Scenic hire car, which the McCanns' hired just before their trip to Rome.
 
If true, this would undermine the recent tests commissioned by the McCanns, designed to absolve them of any involvement in their daughter's disappearance, as they were not conducted on the correct material.
 
The McCanns’ official spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, confirmed that a piece of evidence had been retained by the Forensic Science Service but added that this did not alter the couple’s position.
Mr Mitchell said: "We do not believe that this affects the results of our tests at all. They were extremely thorough and covered all aspects of the vehicle. The piece retained by the Forensic Science Service is extremely small. If anything has been found on it there is a wholly innocent explanation for it."
 
Several other pieces of crucial forensic material are also being kept in the high-security storage facility at the laboratory in Birmingham, it is claimed. 
 


Wednesday 28 November 2007

Two forensic science experts, a detective with the Policia Judiciaria and Francisco Côrte-Real, the head of the Forensic Genetics at the Instituto de Medicina Legal, in Lisbon, arrive in Britain to review forensic evidence.
Their meeting, with officials from the Forensic Science Service laboratory and Leicestershire police will take place tomorrow at a secret location.
According to sources, the Portuguese police want to be briefed on the precise methods used by British scientists to analyse forensic evidence which led to the McCanns being named official suspects in the case in September.
 


Thursday 29 November 2007

The team of senior Portuguese police and forensic experts spend all day discussing the DNA results gleaned by their British counterparts.
 
Later, Clarence Mitchell says: "Enough is enough. There can be nothing that incriminates Kate and Gerry, because they are innocent...  Forensic evidence – if there is any – is inconclusive or explicable, so they should be eliminated from the inquiry."
 
At night, an FSS spokesman says: "The tests remain ongoing. We are a world leader in DNA technology and are consulted on a daily basis by police authorities from all over the world. We are used to dealing with language barriers and it is not an issue in this or any other case."
 
 

Friday 30 November 2007

The Portuguese investigators arrive back in Faro at 8.45am this morning. They head straight for a meeting at a Policia Judiciaria building where they are joined by Paulo Rebelo, coordinator of the investigation.
 
They are then joined, 10 minutes later by Alex Ellis, the new British ambassador to Portugal, and consulate official Angela Morado. They are reported to have stayed for about 30 minutes, although this visit is later claimed to be 'unrelated'.
 
Later, Portuguese police are finally granted permission to re-interview members of the 'Tapas Nine' and put a series of key questions to them after submitting a letter of appeal. Their request, made weeks ago, is now cleared by Portugal's public prosecutor.
 
They will deliver the letters of appeal to British police, asking them to interrogate the McCanns' friends again and to allow Portuguese officers to be be present in the interviews in order to monitor body language.
 
The letters of appeal are the legal documents required for the interviews to be carried out on British soil.
 
It remains unclear whether Kate and Gerry McCann will also be re-interviewed. However, a police source claimed the couple were still in the frame. He said: "Existing evidence is far from clearing them. There are more and more indicators that they were involved in the disappearance of the child. But it's been been difficult to prove."
 
It is reported that the McCanns will be travelling to an undisclosed location on Saturday. Clarence Mitchell comments: "I cannot say where, in order to keep the privacy."


That's it! phew!

1/11
CM says no indication that T7 will be made arguidos.
NoTW reports carrier bag found with DNA links to Maddie.
Blue fleece jacket, adult jeans, shower curtain, green child’s t-shirt etc.
8/11 Newspaper headline that 2 Tapas seeking to provide fresh statements
9/11 a statement from FSS inconclusive.
10/11 PJ rule out burial at sea after hitech Navy search.
13/11 Brian Kennedy meets with PJ and shortly afterwards has a meeting with Murat in Burgau .
the PJ inspectors Ferreira and Paiva submitted an account of their meeting at a later date.
14/11 Newspapers report that Rebelo and his detectives have a list of 100 questions to ask the T9.
The PJ is also frustrated at the length of time to get final test results from FSS.
15/11 A solicitor, reportedly acting for one of the Tapas who wants to change their story claims that the McCanns have received ‘far beyond normal ‘ help from UK Government.
16/11 Jane Tanner breaks her silence in a BBC Panorama programme to say that she now believes she saw Madeleine.
17/11 Tapas 9 had a meeting in a hotel nr. Rothley. TVstation Antena3 claims it was set up by Medtodo3 tam and lasted from 10 to 4.
They claim that none of the 9 will change their statements and that 3 will indicate that Murat was in the area before and after the alarm.
19/11Panorama programme is screened 58 mins. see transcript.
21/11 PJ will travel to UK to interview the T7. Focussing on certain contradictions.
26/11 FSS allegedly state that items of the ccase are in ‘high security’ storage.
28/11 Two forensic science experts arrive in UK to review evidence.
Meeting at a secret location with the FSS and LP.
29/11 All day discussion by the above. CM state that there is nothing to incriminate the McCanns because they are innocent. The FSS says tests are ongoing.
30/11 PJ investigators return to Faro. They meet with the British ambassador, and the consular official.
PJ are finally granted permission to re-interview the T9.

Thanks Tigger , very helpful for a newbie [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think the 'airport bag' finding is obviously a fabricated story but one to 'scare' certain people to keep the pact of silence. Is it a coincidence this fabricated story comes out just prior to the brian kennedy meetings? the meetings which after they changed their stories and seemed to be all together now with murat

Its funny that Maddie’s DNA is now miraculously valid to link up in this story, and after just 10 days

The list of contents in the airport bag, the ammunition to create the scare

Quote...."the bag contained a blue fleece jacket and a pair of adult jeans with traces of DNA that contained "moderate" links to the missing four-year-old"

From jane tanners RI 8th April 2008, she states:
4078 “It is a long time ago, I know, we have already discussed the feasibility of this. But describe, not just that you saw Gerry up the road, describe what route you take and what you can see and what you can hear and whether it is light or dark and any other noises that you are conscious of”.
Reply “Umm”.
4078 “I know it is a tall order”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “But just do the best you can”.
Reply “Yeah. Erm, I’m just trying to, well I’ve walked out of the, walked out of the, erm, the Tap, you know, walked sort of into the reception of the Tapas Bar and obviously walked up the road. I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then. Oh I’m sidetracking a bit, but that’s why I knew one of the pictures in the paper wasn’t from the holiday, because I hadn’t got jeans on the holiday with me, so. Erm, yeah, and I’d got cropped trousers on and just flip-flops, so I can remember sort of walking, I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak. " ......The important headline 6 months prior: MADDIE DNA: TRACES FOUND ON FLEECE AND STAINED JEANS

Now jane, when asked to describe the route you took and what you saw and heard....why does Russell's fleece come to mind and you also not taking jeans on holiday?mmmmm

I have always found this couple very odd. One half is involved in someway in almost everything, whilst the other half is 'conspicuous by his absence' so to speak, there is hardly anything really about Russell. Even on the night of the 3rd May he was absent a lot

Other times in the 'bag'...
It was a white bag.....the mccanns blue bag mysteriously disappeared without trace
Green rubber band.......the mccanns wear & selling green/yellow bands for Maddie

So how does the SHOWER CURTAIN fit into all this???

Thanks for that jd, here is the full article..................


Maddie's DNA 'Found On Clothes Dumped In Bag'

Nov 5 2007 By Karen Bale

Skin And Hair Test After Bag Is Discovered

A BAG of clothes containing DNA which could be linked to Madeleine McCann has been found in a layby.

The white carrier bag, which was dumped near Faro airport in Portugal, contained a woman's jeans and a fleece which had hair and skin on them.

Forensic experts say the traces could have come from the missing girl.

Last night, parents Kate and Gerry were hopeful the discovery might lead to a breakthrough in the hunt for Madeleine.

A friend said: "Kate and Gerry are very encouraged by news of this development, which, on the face of it, seems to be extremely significant.

"It backs up what they have always said, which is that Madeleine was taken."

The bag was found by a member of the public a fortnight ago.

It had been dumped 75 miles from the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz where four-year-old Madeleine vanished.

It also contained a shower curtain, a flannel, a green child's T-shirt and a pencil case with a pink heart motif.

The clothes were sent to the Forensic Science Service lab in Birmingham for analysis.

It is believed the fleece and jeans contained a "moderate" DNA match to Madeleine.

A source said: "The DNA isn't an exact match to Maddie's but it does link.

"The blue fleece and jeans were found to contain traces of congealed skin and hair.

"It's the first clue found outside the apartment complex and could provide a trail."

News of the discovery came as the McCanns attended a church vigil to mark the six-month anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.

Kate and Gerry were joined by 200 people at St Mary and St John church in their home village of Rothley, Leicestershire on Saturday night.

Yesterday, police were investigating a possible sighting of Madeleine at Barcelona airport.

A Portuguese teacher said she saw her there a few weeks after she disappeared.

Police insiders say the hunt for Madeleine will be wound up by Christmas.

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"The white carrier bag, which was dumped near Faro airport in Portugal, contained a woman's jeans and a fleece which had hair and skin on them"

I can't help feeling that the "a light green child's T-shirt with a green flower on the front and a pink and blue pencil case with a pink heart motif" is a subtle scare reference to Maddies t-shirt found with cadaver, and her sticker book

Quote: “A BAG of clothes containing DNA linked to Madeleine McCann has been found dumped by a road in Portugal. The white carrier bag was discovered in a layby two weeks ago near Faro airport, the News of the World can reveal.......... Other items recovered from the bag included a white flannel, a green elastic band, a light green child's T-shirt with a green flower on the front and a pink and blue pencil case with a pink heart motif. A source said: "The bag could be crucial.”

Do we know if a pencil case was ever seen or found in 5A after the 3rd? We know she had a colouring book thingy, they wrote their *timeline* in it. But did they ever see a pencil case or has anyone spotted it in the photos?

monkey mind wrote:Quote: “A BAG of clothes containing DNA linked to Madeleine McCann has been found dumped by a road in Portugal. The white carrier bag was discovered in a layby two weeks ago near Faro airport, the News of the World can reveal.......... Other items recovered from the bag included a white flannel, a green elastic band, a light green child's T-shirt with a green flower on the front and a pink and blue pencil case with a pink heart motif. A source said: "The bag could be crucial.”

Do we know if a pencil case was ever seen or found in 5A after the 3rd? We know she had a colouring book thingy, they wrote their *timeline* in it. But did they ever see a pencil case or has anyone spotted it in the photos?

Monkey mind , I doubt it as there is such a lack of photos of those kids on their "holiday" , in my own case if my daughter was sitting colouring , happy and contented on her holidays there would be a photo , but then I am different , I tend to take photos of every little milestone [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Quote: "A source said: "The DNA isn't an exact match to Maddie's but it does link."


How do we know that is not an exact match? Do we truly know that the dna purported to be Maddie's is actually hers??

It wasn't gained from the apartment 5A, the hairbrush was no good, allegedly only one between all 3 children. Same with the toothbrush unbelievably - 1 toothbrush between 3 kids, and you being medicos and all. Shame on you. Her sandals which should have been perfect for dna were useless because allegedly, her sister wore them, which is kind of like saying, we couldn't get useful dna from K's sandals because her child wore them all the time. Seems absurd to me.

In fact, and I stand to be corrected, the only evidence we have that the dna purported to be Maddie's is in fact hers, is Gerry's word is it not? Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather not take that at face value......

[quote="tuom"]

monkey mind wrote:


Monkey mind , I doubt it as there is such a lack of photos of those kids on their "holiday" , in my own case if my daughter was sitting colouring , happy and contented on her holidays there would be a photo , but then I am different , I tend to take photos of every little milestone [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Tuom, I meant in the crime scene photos and statements. Was there evidence of a pencil case after 10pm on the 3rd? If so, did it look like this one or not? And if there wasn't one there, why not?

I read about a missing shower curtain once - then never again. Thanks to McCannfiles when looking for more November events, I came across it.
Strange - because I cannot find it for the moment in the FSS reports.

Good points - JT seems to be pre-occupied with items that were definitely NOT present - a blanket, jeans, a fleece which wasn't hers. So why did ROB pack a fleece but not JT - because she'd been in Portugal at least three times before.

The colouring book but no pencil case.

Imo November was fraught - battening down the hatches, stopping the leaks and handing out song-sheets.
By the end of April all was safe - media gagged and settlements paid. November and December were the key months probably.
I'd love to see the report the PJ wrote on their 'strange' meeting with BK.

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On the 1st November a photograph released by the parents, allegedly taken 20 days before the PdL holiday.
There are three sets of photographs on this link - of very HQ resolution. Page 2 of this link.

These photographs do not compare well with the two Donegal photos which imo are photoshopped.
It is hard to imagine that the girl on the pony is taken just a few days later than the Donegal photographs.

tigger wrote:Thursday 08 November 2007

A number of newspapers headline with the news that 2 of the Tapas group are seeking to provide fresh statements but wish to remain anonymous because they fear pressure from the McCann family and friends. The reports are instantly dismissed as 'simply untrue' by Clarence Mitchell.
 

Ah well, that's alright then, clears it up nicely - thanks for that Clarence.

Actually, I've been meaning to bring this one up before but not sure where to do so so as it is mentioned here in the November 2007 thread I'll do it now, though trying to avoid straying off topic. This, if true, is a seriously important statement, if admin feel it should be moved please go ahead.

There is also later mention of a lawyer representing the same two people releasing the same info to the press. The one liner quoted above has serious implications, it implies that two people in the group are far from happy with what they have said and done. It implies they fear they will come under an McCann 'family radar' and subsequent pressure from them and also their friends. By friends, can we infer the remainder of the Tapas 7, what would by implication now be the T5? Seems that way to me, just my opinion.

So two people wish to amend their accounts, and as all four families ar involved in some way or other as important witnesses from 5pm onwards on the 3rd, well, it's rather important for it would indicate that some of what we are being told is either untruth or only partially true. It's difficult to read it otherwise. So who were these two? I've noticed that most opinion seems to lean towards the O'Briens. I have to say, I am inclined to disagree with that .

One thing for sure, it is not a subject that should be dismissed as easily as Clarence does, or would like others to.

Here is the article monkeymind and it is ok it is to do with this thread it happened in November 07............


Madeleine: Tapas Two 'want to change story'



By Fiona Govan in Praia da Luz

6:12PM GMT 07 Nov 2007


Two of the friends that dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night Madeleine disappeared have told Portuguese police that they want to change their stories, it has been claimed.

Lawyers acting for the pair are said to have contacted Portuguese detectives leading the enquiry to say their clients are willing to be re-interviewed so they can "correct" their original statements.


The Spanish daily El Mundo reported that the two members of the so-called Tapas Nine - the name given to the McCanns and the seven friends who dined with them on May 3 at their Algarve holiday complex - have asked for their identities to be kept secret.

"Lawyers of two of the friends of the McCanns that dined with them on the night of May 3 in the tapas restaurant have contacted police recently and said their clients are willing to be requestioned so they can 'correct' details of their original statements," said the El Mundo report.


"These two members of the group have asked for their identities to be kept secret."


The seven holidaying with the McCanns at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz are Jane Tanner, 37, her partner Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37, his wife Rachael, 36, David Payne, 41, his wife Fiona, 34, and her mother Dianne Webster, 61.

This weekend it was reported that four of them fear they are about to be named formal suspects by Portuguese police.

Mr O'Brien and Ms Tanner, Mr Oldfield and Dr Payne are all said to have consulted their own lawyers in anticipation of being made official arguidos because of apparent inconsistencies in key statements made immediately after Madeleine vanished.

Strict Portuguese secrecy laws have prevented the McCanns and the friends they were holidaying with from speaking publicly about the series of events the night Madeleine disappeared.

But several apparent contradictions have emerged in the six months since the four-year-old went missing, including the timings of events and how much alcohol was consumed on the night.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, denied that any of the friends had officially approached the Portuguese police through their lawyers but said that they were happy to be reinterviewed by police if it resolved any apparent inconsistencies and hastened the McCanns being cleared.

"Contrary to a report in the Spanish press, and after consultation amongst Gerry and Kate McCann's friends, I can deny that any approach has been made by their lawyers asking to amend or change the witness statement of any of them," he said.

"Kate and Gerry's friends, who were with them on May 3, have consistently told the truth and remain happy, indeed they are keen, to be reinterviewed by the police if necessary to clarify any inconsistencies in the statements that the police may think they have identified.

"The friends believe that if such interviews or reinterviews take place it can only lead to Gerry and Kate being eliminated from the inquiry swiftly."

The McCanns were declared arguidos by Portuguese detectives in September the day before they finally flew back to the UK after four months in Portugal.

They deny any involvement in their daughter's disappearance and insist she may still be alive.

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monkey mind wrote:

tigger wrote:Thursday 08 November 2007

A number of newspapers headline with the news that 2 of the Tapas group are seeking to provide fresh statements but wish to remain anonymous because they fear pressure from the McCann family and friends. The reports are instantly dismissed as 'simply untrue' by Clarence Mitchell.
 

Ah well, that's alright then, clears it up nicely - thanks for that Clarence.

Actually, I've been meaning to bring this one up before but not sure where to do so so as it is mentioned here in the November 2007 thread I'll do it now, though trying to avoid straying off topic. This, if true, is a seriously important statement, if admin feel it should be moved please go ahead.

There is also later mention of a lawyer representing the same two people releasing the same info to the press. The one liner quoted above has serious implications, it implies that two people in the group are far from happy with what they have said and done. It implies they fear they will come under an McCann 'family radar' and subsequent pressure from them and also their friends. By friends, can we infer the remainder of the Tapas 7, what would by implication now be the T5? Seems that way to me, just my opinion.

So two people wish to amend their accounts, and as all four families ar involved in some way or other as important witnesses from 5pm onwards on the 3rd, well, it's rather important for it would indicate that some of what we are being told is either untruth or only partially true. It's difficult to read it otherwise. So who were these two? I've noticed that most opinion seems to lean towards the O'Briens. I have to say, I am inclined to disagree with that .

One thing for sure, it is not a subject that should be dismissed as easily as Clarence does, or would like others to.

If I remember right , I'm sure I do, in the pj files, some of the last statement from smith and J wilkinson and some other witnesses, expressing irritation over TM for trying to contact them many times about their statements. Specially wilkinson I think felt stressed about it. I have to go back to see if I can find it and give a link if I can. ( I'm on my iPad and linking is not always easy on it ) ..

No wonder friends where worried to go against them..easier to just play along maybe...

I think the 2 that are reported to want to speak out were the Oldfields. Though, the clear 'scare' reference to jane tanner from the airport bags suggest it could have been her that was cracking, unless any of the other items can be related to the Oldfields

jane tanner probably just wanted to have a cha cha cha with the pol in port!

Here it is , at the end of the rogatory interview done nov 2007 he says this :

Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organization employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objection to being included but were concerned as to the method being used

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[quote="monkey mind"]

tuom wrote:

monkey mind wrote:


Monkey mind , I doubt it as there is such a lack of photos of those kids on their "holiday" , in my own case if my daughter was sitting colouring , happy and contented on her holidays there would be a photo , but then I am different , I tend to take photos of every little milestone [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Tuom, I meant in the crime scene photos and statements. Was there evidence of a pencil case after 10pm on the 3rd? If so, did it look like this one or not? And if there wasn't one there, why not?

Ooops sorry ! IIRC GA had said that there did not seem to be a lot of childlike things in the apartment [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks for that article Candyfloss.

The first thing to bear in mind reading this is that unless Mitchell made some sort of specific record of these conversations with the members of the T9 thenwhat he says is hearsay and would be inadmissable in a court of law. We can only know the truth of what he says if we hear it directly from the mouths of those he is speaking for, or he testifies under oath as to the veracity of the conversation. It means in fact, that whatever Mitchell says on behalf of someone, that person can later deny with both impunity and confidence at some later date under oath. So out the window with that then.

Can we say the same of the rest of the article where it says the PJ have been contacted by two people who wish to change their statements. Well, on the face of it it is still hearsay and therefore little more than rumor, but of course if true, the PJ will have made a record of these conversations, they will no longer be hearsay and hence will be admissable in court although certain aspects may be subject to legal privilege. All the more reason to continue trashing the PJ eh?? Who were these two I wonder. Are they reading this? Is their conscience stirred at all. Are they happy they may not have been able to get their point across accurately, that something may have been missed in the hunt for this missing child. Or are they happy to carry it around til doomsday I wonder. Gosh, I'm glad that's not my karmic choice!! Of course this may all just be newspaper nonsense, but it hasn't been whooshd and we can only make informed decisions on what we have eh?

This weekend it was reported that four of them fear they are about to be named formal suspects by Portuguese police.

Quote from the article "Mr O'Brien and Ms Tanner, Mr Oldfield and Dr Payne are all said to have consulted their own lawyers in anticipation of being made official arguidos because of apparent inconsistencies in key statements made immediately after Madeleine vanished. "

So if the PJ were spoken to, they are fully aware they do not have a true and accurate record of the events of that night from the point of the T9.......

From the artice.....

"A number of newspapers headline with the news that 2 of the Tapas group are seeking to provide fresh statements but wish to remain anonymous because they fear pressure from the McCann family and friends. The reports are instantly dismissed as 'simply untrue' by Clarence Mitchell."

So we are not talking of the Wilkins or Smiths. It's very clear. Unwhooshed. (is that a word??)

monkey mind wrote:From the artice.....

"A number of newspapers headline with the news that 2 of the Tapas group are seeking to provide fresh statements but wish to remain anonymous because they fear pressure from the McCann family and friends. The reports are instantly dismissed as 'simply untrue' by Clarence Mitchell."

So we are not talking of the Wilkins or Smiths. It's very clear. Unwhooshed. (is that a word??)

And very soon after that the song sheets were handed out at a Rothley Hotel. David Smith (see topic on David Smith) journalist for the Timesonline divulges that JT and ROB did have a baby monitor after being briefed by Gerry after the Rothley meeting! (I can't get over that being briefed, I thought journalists were supposed to ask questions - silly me). So it may be that this second baby monitor was granted permission during that meeting. What else?
A nanny visited the McCanns too, possibly around that time.
Shortly before the meeting we have the two meetings in PdL of BK and Murat and BK and the PJ - who apparently are totally puzzled by him. I couldn't find the report on this meeting by the PJ but it is on the DVD according to another source.
It may be MO and RM after all, I think they didn't know the McCanns very well?

Are we assuming that the two are a couple though? It could have been two who are not joined together in a relationship.

Nina wrote:Are we assuming that the two are a couple though? It could have been two who are not joined together in a relationship.

We can't know, it could also be e.g. ROB and MO and I'm pretty sure that there were indications it was ROB. It would surely not be the Paynes, or Diane Webster, so it's two out of four. RM's testimony is more or less the same, so two out of three?
You may be right.

Very interesting thread, tigger.

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JT and RO are more implicated imo by association and by their unreliable narration concerning their movements leading up to the 'discovery'.

It makes me shudder whenever I read about the pressure exerted on potential witnesses by the McCanns and makes me more convinced of their guilt. Whether it was a cover-up that spun out of control and had to be contained with all the help they could muster, or something altogether more sinister, we shall one day find out, of that I am convinced.

Found this gem of an article in another topic and feel it should be in here (with Tonys observations). Note the timing of this article....20th November 2007! Just days 'after' the kennedy/murat meeting and Rothley meeting, suddenly its not murat she saw but a man with his faced turned away!. Funny this! This is the start of the change of story taking them away from naming murat as suspect, which up to this point they had done everything possible to do. (the deals/agreement had been done at the meetings, hence all change of stories)

It is also interesting to bare in mind the 'airport bag' story too which clearly was some sort of warning shot to jane tanner to stay in line or else, with tanner's fleece/jeans announcement in her RI statement that followed

To me, it is looking very clearly that jane tanner is absolutely pivotal to the cover up in one way or another. Its interesting to note how much she has put herself out and got involved, whereas her partner ROB is almost non existent. (shouldn't he be supporting her?) What is her motivation for doing this? I always believe it is the 'quiet' ones to watch out for, and imo it is her love for her partner that she has totally put herself out on the line, while he remains under the radar not drawing any attention to himself

Jane Tanner's exclusive interview with The Sun, 20 November 2007

I DID see man abduct Maddie

The Sun

By ONLINE REPORTERS
Published: 20 Nov 2007

MADDIE kidnap witness Jane Tanner yesterday told how she watched the tot being snatched – and insisted she has NO doubt (1) about what she saw.

In an exclusive interview with The Sun – her first with any newspaper – Jane forcefully hit back at critics who have suggested she is lying.

Amid sobs, she said: "I DID see a man that night carrying away Madeleine.

"She WAS abducted."

Tears welling in her eyes, she went on: "I wake up to that image ever day. Every day I see him there, striding away, carrying Madeleine and I try desperately to remember more detail, what his face was like. (1)

"I think about it over and over again. It’s horrible.

"Madeleine was (2) adorable. Every day I hope this is the day we find her."

Twisting her Look For Madeleine yellow and green wristbands, Jane, 36, then went into detail about the night of May 3.

She told how she and the other members of the so-called Tapas Nine had been leaving the restaurant at the complex in Praia da Luz to check their children.

Returning

It was on one of her visits to see her two daughters that Jane passed Maddie’s dad Gerry, 39 (3). He was returning from seeing his children.

Seconds later she saw a man cross from left to right in front of her with a child lolling back in his arms.

Jane said: "It wasn’t unusual to see people with children, even at that time of night. But my attention was drawn to him because the child had bare feet.

"It was a cold night and I thought that was strange because as a mother I would never have taken my child around at that time without something on their feet or a blanket. All I could see of the child was their legs dangling.

"The man was about ten to fifteen feet in front of me (4) and was walking quite quickly and I can remember thinking, 'That’s odd'.

"But that was all, nothing to make me scream out to make him stop. I never at that time thought it could be Madeleine. I’d just passed Gerry (3) so I thought his children were all asleep in bed."

Jane carried on to her apartment where she found her daughters were fine, (5) so she went back to the tapas bar.

About 15 minutes later her partner Dr Russell O’Brien checked (5) and found one of the girls had been sick (5) so he asked a friend to fetch Jane.

It was while Jane was there that Maddie’s mum Kate, 39, went to see her children at around 10.05pm – and found the girl missing.

Jane said the first she knew was when she looked out of her window and saw the table at the tapas bar was empty (6). She opened the door and there was commotion.

She said: "I saw all our friends outside shouting. I opened the door and one, Rachael, shouted at me, 'Madeleine’ s gone!' As soon as she said that the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick. A feeling of complete horror washed over me."

Minutes later Jane saw Kate. Close to tears, Jane admitted she could not bear to tell her about the man. (7) She said: "At that time it seemed everyone thought Madeleine was hiding. (8)

I knew that if I told her about the man it would shatter that. I was also hoping desperately that I’d been wrong. Instead I took another friend, Fiona, to one side and told her. (9)

"Then, at around 11.15, two policemen arrived and I told them. Later CID arrived. They did this thing called a cognitive technique, where they put you back in the moment, and it was then that I remembered the pyjamas.

"There were pink and white, they were what Madeleine was wearing. (10) I just felt so awful, I felt I could have stopped this from happening. I think of that everyday.

"I have to live with it forever, that guilt is never going to go away." It has been reported that the man she saw that night was Robert Murat, the first person named as a suspect. But Jane said she simply does not know (11).

Jane, from Exeter, Devon, said: “He had his face turned away (1) and it was dark.

"I’ve done an artist’s impression and want people to look at that and rack their brains as to whether they know him, or if they were on holiday, saw him.

"Please just ring the Find Madeleine Spanish hotline".

OBSERVATIONS & COMMENTS FROM TONY

1. Tanner first of all says 'I try desperately to remember what his face looks like' but later says 'He had his face turned away' (!). Later on, despite his face being 'turned away', she was apparently able to pontificate that 'George Harrison man'/'monster man' looked like the man she had seen (!). Of course, we mustn't forget that at a press conference in September 2009, when the story was the Victoria Beckham-lookalike asking an anonymous British banker for her daughter in downtown Barcelona at 2am, former Chief Inspector Dave Edgar said: "Tanner could have seen a woman".

2. Only four months after Madeleine was reported missing, Tanner uses the past tense about Madeleine.

3. Twice she mentions passing Gerry. Strange...first because Gerry can't remember seeing her down that narrow lane, and second because Gerry was talking to Wilkins but Jane doesn't say anything about her seeing Wilkins. It's as if she hasn't rehearsed very well and has forgotten her lines.

4. 10-15 feet in front. Hmmm. That's about the length of an average-sized bedroom. In just 4-5 paces, she would have bumped into him!

5. If they were 'checking every half-hour', why did Russell O'Brien go to see the girls within 15 minutes of Tanner's visit. And was one of the girls so badly sick that O'Brien had to wash her sheets and pillow-case in the washing-machine AND bath her, even though 15 minutes before, Tanner pronounced the girls 'fine' (one presumes 'fine and sleeping soundly', though she does not say so).

6. Hmmm. So she just 'happened to look' out of the apartment window? She says the Tapas bar table was 'empty'. Yet both Dianne Webster and the waiter maintain that Dianne remained steadfastly at the table after the others rushed off.

7. Yet Russell O'Brien was gaily writing down on a ripped-out cover of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book: "9.15pm - Jane sees abductor with Madeleine".

8. Come off it, Tanner. Both Dr Gerald McCann and his wife told the media and the police: "We knew instantly that it was an abduction".

9. And we're espected to beleive that Fiona didn't tell Kate either?

10. Did she know what pyjamas Madeleine was wearing? And she didn't actually say the pyjamas were 'white and pink'; she said they 'had a pinkish aspect'. And what happened when the McCanns held up Madeleine's ACTUAL pyjamas. Little Amelie piped up: 'MADDIE'S JAMAS'. Strange too that Amelie referred to her as 'Maddie' when the McCanns insisted she was alweays called 'Madeleine'?

11. Goncalo Amaral is very very clear in his book. On Sunday 13 May, when Madeleine would have been four years old, Jane Tanner 'adamantly' insisted that when Murat walked past the police van she was in that afternoon, that he was the abductor she'd seen 10 days earlier. This Sun interview was the beginning of a concerted effort by the McCann camp to begin to deny that Tanner had ever positively identified Murat. The Sun interview, presumably carried out at least a day or two in advance of publication on 20 November, followed swiftly on the high-level meeting in the Algarve on 13 November, just a week earlier, between double glazing magnate Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst, his lawyer and also the McCanns' 'co-ordinating lawyer', official suspect Robert Murat and his lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, and Murat's mother and aunt and uncle.