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Abduction Observation

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Abduction Observation

Post by tuom on 28.04.12 17:31

I have never believed the abduction story but I have tried to read as much of the Tapas timelines as I can possibly stomach. It seems (if we are to believe their timeline) that there was someone in the vicinty of the apartments almost at all times during that night, the checking of the children seems to be a hodge podge of toing and froing , listening and looking . Everyone seems to agree that the area was quiet and badly lit so to see an abductor and hear nothing strange is totally off the wall.

To imagine a stranger coming in and taking MMC and no one hears anything ! IMO if a child is woken from their sleep they get cranky and start to cry or be very restless , then for a child to look at who is carrying them is a stranger I would be of the opinion that the child would become very distressed indeed and unless sedated at that moment would not be as still as JT says , unless of course the abductor sedated the child. However, given the timelines he/she would have to be very quick and confident that no one would see them.

JT says that GMC was talking to JW when she saw the "abductor" , now unless the "abductor" was very stupid to pass three people in the open two of whom were talking to each other and he/she would have heard this as the area was very quiet , and surely if someone was jemmieing the shutters and window again in the stillness of the night anyone in the near area would hear this !

Of course however the poor child who vanished was put in that position because her parents were not with her ..... end of.



What really got me thinking on the abduction was something that happened yesterday and got me thinking, my husband and I parked the car at the side of a takeaway , the main door to the takeaway is on the front of the building but there is a window at the side, I remained in the car while my husband went inside. A few minutes later a car pulled up beside us and the gentleman went into the takeaway, I noticed a child in the back strapped into a child seat , the child looked happy enough although I was alarmed that the man left the child in the car. I timed how long I could see the child alone and it was 7 mins , as I am following this case of course I started to think , perish the thought if someone had tried to abduct that child and passed the front of the takeaway with the child screaming and protesting , then the father or someone would notice and go after them and there would be quite a ruckus , I know that the alleged "abduction" of MMC was at night and dark and quiet but surely someone would have heard something ?
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Re: Abduction Observation

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 28.04.12 18:27

@tuom wrote:I have never believed the abduction story but I have tried to read as much of the Tapas timelines as I can possibly stomach. It seems (if we are to believe their timeline) that there was someone in the vicinty of the apartments almost at all times during that night, the checking of the children seems to be a hodge podge of toing and froing , listening and looking . Everyone seems to agree that the area was quiet and badly lit so to see an abductor and hear nothing strange is totally off the wall.

To imagine a stranger coming in and taking MMC and no one hears anything ! IMO if a child is woken from their sleep they get cranky and start to cry or be very restless , then for a child to look at who is carrying them is a stranger I would be of the opinion that the child would become very distressed indeed and unless sedated at that moment would not be as still as JT says , unless of course the abductor sedated the child. However, given the timelines he/she would have to be very quick and confident that no one would see them.

JT says that GMC was talking to JW when she saw the "abductor" , now unless the "abductor" was very stupid to pass three people in the open two of whom were talking to each other and he/she would have heard this as the area was very quiet , and surely if someone was jemmieing the shutters and window again in the stillness of the night anyone in the near area would hear this !

Of course however the poor child who vanished was put in that position because her parents were not with her ..... end of.



What really got me thinking on the abduction was something that happened yesterday and got me thinking, my husband and I parked the car at the side of a takeaway , the main door to the takeaway is on the front of the building but there is a window at the side, I remained in the car while my husband went inside. A few minutes later a car pulled up beside us and the gentleman went into the takeaway, I noticed a child in the back strapped into a child seat , the child looked happy enough although I was alarmed that the man left the child in the car. I timed how long I could see the child alone and it was 7 mins , as I am following this case of course I started to think , perish the thought if someone had tried to abduct that child and passed the front of the takeaway with the child screaming and protesting , then the father or someone would notice and go after them and there would be quite a ruckus , I know that the alleged "abduction" of MMC was at night and dark and quiet but surely someone would have heard something ?

They didn't hear anything because it probably didn't happen!!

I have always thought there is a distinct possibility that the Tapas crowd were quite an annoying obnoxious bunch, and this might have worked against them initially within the resort. As a large crowd with a load of small kids they would have been hard to ignore, marching around, they used the tennis courts a lot, creche, hogged the Tapas every night, supermarket for bits and bobs. Basically, I've been to PdL and other holidays makers in OC wouldn't have been able to get away from this lot.

All the Tapas were housed together in a little apartment block, and based on all the very young children (who tend to howl a lot and make a noise regardless - all parents can relate to rackety infants!) they had between them, in and out all day long and in the evenings, I expect as a collective group they were noisy and annoying to all in the immediate vicinity. They sound quite selfish too, as Kate mentions in her book that they were aware others wanted to use the Tapas bar but couldn't because of their block booking, and because it suited them, wouldn't change their behaviour to accommodate others, to be thoughtful. Also, Pamela Fenns alleged response that irked Kate on the night of the disappearance has always made me think that Mrs Fenn didn't react to the drama in an expected fashion, because she had to put up with a lot of noise for days on end, what with prolonged crying at night etc. that it probably didn't seem too unusual for there to be a racket.

We all know the types of people that think they and their kids are the centre of the universe out in public, the types that never correct their children shrieking, wriggling about in cafes etc and running around the place, who never stop their kids acting anti-socially, park their buggies so people can't get by, basically oblivious to everyone else but their sprog.

It may be a totally wrong thought, but this is how I imagine the Tapas to be, all of them. Looking at the statements they rocked up for dinner anywhere between 8-30 and 9. Bearing in mind the Tapas was popular and they had kind of shoved other holiday makers out of the way so they could hog it every night, they were rude about their timekeeping, sat there for several hours rather than make way for a second sitting. They have since demanded this that and the other, Kate was VERY disparaging in her book about Yvonne Martin and others who tried to help, made her sound horribly ungrateful to peoples concern. All in all they sound very inconsiderate (based on their own admissions).

Which in my mind makes it highly unlikely for an abductor to watch this lot and choose to nick one of their kids (and no, I don't believe Maddie was such a gorgeous kid that it had to be her, regardless of what McCanns would say), an abductor would surely target a child from a less crowd-like situation. It would make more sense to go for an only child who was on holiday with just two parents, without a rabble of
people who were all over the shop like a rash.

In fact given the circa, Maddie would be the LAST child that would be targeted if you look at it logically.




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Re: Abduction Observation

Post by tuom on 28.04.12 18:38

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@tuom wrote:I have never believed the abduction story but I have tried to read as much of the Tapas timelines as I can possibly stomach. It seems (if we are to believe their timeline) that there was someone in the vicinty of the apartments almost at all times during that night, the checking of the children seems to be a hodge podge of toing and froing , listening and looking . Everyone seems to agree that the area was quiet and badly lit so to see an abductor and hear nothing strange is totally off the wall.

To imagine a stranger coming in and taking MMC and no one hears anything ! IMO if a child is woken from their sleep they get cranky and start to cry or be very restless , then for a child to look at who is carrying them is a stranger I would be of the opinion that the child would become very distressed indeed and unless sedated at that moment would not be as still as JT says , unless of course the abductor sedated the child. However, given the timelines he/she would have to be very quick and confident that no one would see them.

JT says that GMC was talking to JW when she saw the "abductor" , now unless the "abductor" was very stupid to pass three people in the open two of whom were talking to each other and he/she would have heard this as the area was very quiet , and surely if someone was jemmieing the shutters and window again in the stillness of the night anyone in the near area would hear this !

Of course however the poor child who vanished was put in that position because her parents were not with her ..... end of.



What really got me thinking on the abduction was something that happened yesterday and got me thinking, my husband and I parked the car at the side of a takeaway , the main door to the takeaway is on the front of the building but there is a window at the side, I remained in the car while my husband went inside. A few minutes later a car pulled up beside us and the gentleman went into the takeaway, I noticed a child in the back strapped into a child seat , the child looked happy enough although I was alarmed that the man left the child in the car. I timed how long I could see the child alone and it was 7 mins , as I am following this case of course I started to think , perish the thought if someone had tried to abduct that child and passed the front of the takeaway with the child screaming and protesting , then the father or someone would notice and go after them and there would be quite a ruckus , I know that the alleged "abduction" of MMC was at night and dark and quiet but surely someone would have heard something ?

They didn't hear anything because it probably didn't happen!!

I have always thought there is a distinct possibility that the Tapas crowd were quite an annoying obnoxious bunch, and this might have worked against them initially within the resort. As a large crowd with a load of small kids they would have been hard to ignore, marching around, they used the tennis courts a lot, creche, hogged the Tapas every night, supermarket for bits and bobs. Basically, I've been to PdL and other holidays makers in OC wouldn't have been able to get away from this lot.

All the Tapas were housed together in a little apartment block, and based on all the very young children (who tend to howl a lot and make a noise regardless - all parents can relate to rackety infants!) they had between them, in and out all day long and in the evenings, I expect as a collective group they were noisy and annoying to all in the immediate vicinity. They sound quite selfish too, as Kate mentions in her book that they were aware others wanted to use the Tapas bar but couldn't because of their block booking, and because it suited them, wouldn't change their behaviour to accommodate others, to be thoughtful. Also, Pamela Fenns alleged response that irked Kate on the night of the disappearance has always made me think that Mrs Fenn didn't react to the drama in an expected fashion, because she had to put up with a lot of noise for days on end, what with prolonged crying at night etc. that it probably didn't seem too unusual for there to be a racket.

We all know the types of people that think they and their kids are the centre of the universe out in public, the types that never correct their children shrieking, wriggling about in cafes etc and running around the place, who never stop their kids acting anti-socially, park their buggies so people can't get by, basically oblivious to everyone else but their sprog.

It may be a totally wrong thought, but this is how I imagine the Tapas to be, all of them. Looking at the statements they rocked up for dinner anywhere between 8-30 and 9. Bearing in mind the Tapas was popular and they had kind of shoved other holiday makers out of the way so they could hog it every night, they were rude about their timekeeping, sat there for several hours rather than make way for a second sitting. They have since demanded this that and the other, Kate was VERY disparaging in her book about Yvonne Martin and others who tried to help, made her sound horribly ungrateful to peoples concern. All in all they sound very inconsiderate (based on their own admissions).

Which in my mind makes it highly unlikely for an abductor to watch this lot and choose to nick one of their kids (and no, I don't believe Maddie was such a gorgeous kid that it had to be her, regardless of what McCanns would say), an abductor would surely target a child from a less crowd-like situation. It would make more sense to go for an only child who was on holiday with just two parents, without a rabble of
people who were all over the shop like a rash.

In fact given the circa, Maddie would be the LAST child that would be targeted if you look at it logically.






Very very well said , I think we all ( I know we have ) met these kind of people on holidays , I being a sun worshipper and the most boring person to be on holidays with as I just lie there have at times despaired at the loudness of other holiday makers , but in all my years I have never seen or heard of children being left alone , in fact I have always found that resorts cater for children at all times including the evenings with discos, games etc and though we have never used them I have seen very good babysitting facilities , still you are right selfish is as selfish does , how they are still courting the press with the absurd tale beggars belief !
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Re: Abduction Observation

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 28.04.12 19:04

You and me both regards just chilling out on holiday! Can't stand all the over-adrenalised belting back and forth, kicking sand all over the place whilst people are trying to have a peaceful rest. I won't let my child run close by to where someone is relaxing, I say "walk nicely, respect their space!".

But maybe certain "types" who in their own minds are the centre of the Universe feel it's perfectly normal to want / need constant attention and special treatment, even if it is to search for a child. Other families like the Lawrences, Yeates, the Dowlers, Ben Needhams mum etc all have given out an aura of humility and grace. The McCanns to my way of thinking, have been too "demanding" and phrased things rather badly. In Kates book she said some stuff which I thought, if you are trying to garner support and get people on side, what the heck would you say/think in private? Some of what she said came across as downright rude and unpleasant IMO.

Perhaps the media appear to favour them because media type people are pretty "me, me, me" and so their behaviour doesn't seem too weird! They just seem at odds with "normal" people who have been brought up to act graciously. Gerry's family themselves have said in interviews and Kate too, that the McCanns are a loud boisterous lot.

Regardless of circumstances that arise in life, some people are not endearing. Personalities "clash" and this has been demonstrated very clearly by this last five years. They are like Marmite - love 'em or hate 'em!!

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Re: Abduction Observation

Post by Miraflores on 28.04.12 19:40

I agree they come across as completely selfish.

As we know the twins were dumped back in the creche after Madeleine's disappearance and the McCanns set the wheels in motion for a media circus. I recall from the book KM whining when they were asked to remove the twins because other children were being upset by the media circus. She was annoyed that the other parents weren't considering the importance of the twins having a routine and implies that they are the selfish ones. There was not the slightest attempt to put herself in the other parents' shoes and realise that wanting their own children to be able to enjoy playing undisturbed was completely reasonable.
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