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Who and why would participate in a cover up

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Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by friedtomatoes on 26.04.12 19:51

I do not do conspiracy theories though I know corruption is rife in politics and other areas mainly around financial issues. My question is who would cover up the death of a child?

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by russiandoll on 26.04.12 19:59

possibly even if an accidental death, the circumstances it occurred in.
something that would be discovered at autopsy had to be hidden, maybe even the case before a fatality occurred, decision made not to seek medical care.
if not to do with people directly involved, someone of importance in the vicinity would be revealed doing something illegal, scandalous, possibly both.
but a secret there is.....what was it , why the huge cover-up and who is/are being protected?

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by tigger on 26.04.12 20:26

friedtomatoes wrote:I do not do conspiracy theories though I know corruption is rife in politics and other areas mainly around financial issues. My question is who would cover up the death of a child?

I've really struggled with that too - after the very bad fake abduction (which imo wasn't a cover up but a plan) .
Since the abduction could have been better done by Delboy and Trigger, I think that was down to the two main players. But the PJ wouldn't play and IMO again, please note it's all my wicked brain - the main protagonists knew full well their plan was full of holes.

So call in some favours. IMO the main instigator of the subsequent cover up was down to one man only. For reasons I'd love to know.

But once these actions - sending top level FO staff, a PR man, you name it - interference at the FSS and LP. Refusal for details on finances and health - arranging for an investigator to be discredited are a fact - you're looking at the next cover-up. Cover up that there was one.

Meanwhile it was manna for the media, for all the wannabees jumping on the bandwagon for 15 minutes of fame.
That complications developed by the hour is only to be expected. Once the media were gagged they were safe.

The man who did most for them is rarely mentioned, has never even been photographed with them to win votes.

I like as few players as possible. So the Tapas weren't in on it, which is evident from some of their remarks, the family might be half in on it or again not know the full plan, all extras as it were. Most might be accessories after the fact, probably not knowing the full facts anyway.

So if there was a plan between two people and protection from just the one, it's looking a lot simpler. Just my opinion, not even humble.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by nomendelta on 26.04.12 20:44

friedtomatoes wrote:I do not do conspiracy theories though I know corruption is rife in politics and other areas mainly around financial issues. My question is who would cover up the death of a child?

To this day the evidence of the cadaver and blood dogs has not been explained. Even in the Panorama show the other night they managed to fudge the issue completely by talking about dogs finding DNA and the DNA tests being inconclusive. This interesting omission of what the dogs are actually trained to do speaks volumes.

The dogs found blood and death scent. Nobody else died in that apartment. A girl is missing. It would seem likely that these facts dovetail, wouldn't it?

So if Maddie died in that apartment as heavily indicated who would be interested in a cover-up?

Well, 3 British Prime Ministers, several Government members, a diplomat, the entire British press, the BBC, ITV have all distorted facts and accepted completely the Team McCann line.

As to why - I have no idea.

I did suggest to my wife tonight that the tabloid payouts to Murat and the Tapas 9 might have been some kind of hush money? After all none of these people could risk receiving hundreds of thousands in their bank account without someone noticing so one way of doing this was the libel payouts. It is interesting that the paper in question rolled over and paid up.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by tigger on 26.04.12 20:50

Actually, it was 11 papers who each paid a share of the total 1 1/4 million settlement.
It was well worth it for them, because they'd made a lot more selling copies with the McCann stories. Still do.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by nomendelta on 26.04.12 21:05

I thought it was just the Express group?

Regardless, I don't buy the "Maddie sells papers". The revelation of the parents (if indeed that is what happened) being responsible would sell just as many if not more. Think of the sordid details in reports of the lives of Fred and Rosemary West - sensation sells and the parents as perpetators story would sell every bit as much as the fake sightings.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.04.12 22:53

Absolutely nobody. No conspiracy at all.

The Gaspar statements weren't withheld for six months, they were sent by LP but the ridiculous, inept rubbish postal system held them up
Ditto bank records, medical records
CATS made a file 'just in case'
Gordon Brown did not personally intervene, there was no connection between his brother and the T9
It is completely normal to get the British ambassador smoothing your way almost immediately (ask Kerry Needham)
Martin Grime wasn't ordered to state that cadaver dog alerts are inadmissible without DNA, he did it by choice and does it in every case;
FSS didn't follow their normal procedure in this case of cross-checking workers DNA with samples, hence 'uncertainty over profile'
Dunblane and subsequent cover-up did not happen

Who indeed would participate in a cover-up and why? What a bonkers idea!!!

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by tigger on 27.04.12 8:44

nomendelta wrote:I thought it was just the Express group?

Regardless, I don't buy the "Maddie sells papers". The revelation of the parents (if indeed that is what happened) being responsible would sell just as many if not more. Think of the sordid details in reports of the lives of Fred and Rosemary West - sensation sells and the parents as perpetators story would sell every bit as much as the fake sightings.

You're right on that of course - the list of papers is in the Madeleine Foundation files here. I'm with you on the hush money - although the T7 got peanuts compared to Murat.
But: ' 3 British Prime Ministers, several Government members, a diplomat, the entire British press, the BBC, ITV have all distorted facts and accepted completely the Team McCann line.' You said.
But all of that can be explained if the commands came right from the top. Most of them just did as they were told. Government works like a sort of Mafia, dirt is kept on file until it can be used. DC has inherited this affair to use as he sees fit. We saw what that means on Wednesday.

The media weren't all that nice to the mcCanns after they were made arguidos. Right at the start they ran articles on the crying episode, Brunt checked the distance to 5a and did this on video. etc.

Without the lawyers and spin doctors the story would have failed . A masterstroke was the visit to the Pope, sanctifying the McCanns in one fell swoop.
I'm convinced that even whilst the media were watching, the clean-up (disposal of the body) was still in progress. Imo around the 10th of June they felt they were 'safe'.
There was extra help though, from the family, Tapas, rich 'friends' - confusion is good according to Gerry.

Once back in the UK - masses of very unfavourable publicity but by the end of the year that had changed. According to Blacksmith I think, that was because Carter Ruck visited the editors - I understand that libel laws in the UK are the most severe in the world. Super injunctions? Might have cost them a million or so each the next time.
If the truth finally came out, the papers would make a killing. Here's hoping! Besides, Murdoch is pro McCann - that takes care of 90% of public 'opinion'.

Most of what happened can certainly be laid at the door of one man though, because it was 'a matter of national security'. I'd still really like to know why. Mr. Brown.

Quote nomendelta:
I did suggest to my wife tonight that the tabloid payouts to Murat and the Tapas 9 might have been some kind of hush money? After all none of these people could risk receiving hundreds of thousands in their bank account without someone noticing so one way of doing this was the libel payouts. It is interesting that the paper in question rolled over and paid up.
Unquote

That is spot on! Could easily have been arranged at the same time the editors were told about libel actions. It was only about 50.000 for each paper.
Murat didn't say a thing against the T9 did he? In fact he slated Amaral. Burgau topic is interesting reading.
Murat is a key figure but not necessarily in the abduction. I think he had a contact to hide the body. Doubt if he got his hands dirty.
Murat was profiled by the British - even MI5 I think and literally pushed into the arms of the PJ. Who weren't at all keen to arrest him. That again points to instructions from 'above'.

Extract from the Robert Murat article in Madeleine Foundation. :
- he received one of the biggest-ever payouts for libel - a reputed £600,000. In addition, his partner Michaela Walczuk apparently netted a further £100,000, as did his friend Sergei Malinka. These awards came around four months after the McCanns received, in March, a libel pay-out reputed to have been £550,000 and two months before the ‘Tapas 9’ group of the McCanns’ friends received, we were told, a total of £375,000 - over £50,000 each. The total libel pay-out to these 12 people amounted to around £1¾ million.

Simons Muirhead & Burton had announced in April that they were pursuing 11 leading British newspapers and SKY TV over allegedly libellous stories. The newspapers were the Sun, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star, Daily Mail, London Evening Standard, Metro, Daily Mirror, Sunday Mirror, News of the World and the Scotsman. unquote

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Guest on 27.04.12 9:26

Murat received £600,000 from the papers but everyone overlooks the substantial payout he got from Sky News or BSkyb. Don't think it has ever been published anywhere what he received from them - I wonder how much it was................


Madeleine McCann: Robert Murat accepts libel damages from BSkyB

Robert Murat has accepted substantial undisclosed libel damages from BSkyB over an allegation that there were strong grounds for believing that he was guilty of abducting Madeleine McCann.


By Daily Telegraph reporter

2:17PM GMT 14 Nov 2008

Mr Murat, 34, was not at London's High Court for the settlement of his action against British Sky Broadcasting Ltd.


He had previously received a record settlement of £600,000 over "seriously defamatory" allegations in nearly 100 articles connecting him with the abduction.


He had sued Associated Newspapers, Express Newspapers, MGN Limited and News Group Newspapers.


His solicitor Louis Charalambous told Mr Justice Eady that an article and video on the Sky News website claimed that in the early days after Madeleine's disappearance from Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007, Mr Murat's behaviour was reminiscent of child murderer Ian Huntley.


The article, which was published until April this year, and the video, which was accessible until this September, also suggested that Mr Murat had deliberately tried to mislead journalists by pretending to be acting in an official capacity for the police.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/3458813/Madeleine-McCann-Robert-Murat-accepts-libel-damages-from-BSkyB.html


The first settlement against papers was in July 2008 and the Sky settlement in November 2008 Didn't he do well.
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by rainbow-fairy on 27.04.12 10:08

Oh dear. The jigsaw pieces are slotting together nicely.
I believe:
1)Robert Murat was involved - probably to secure an empty property.
2)The 'fingering' of Murat was intentional, a sort of 'look over there not over here' sleight of hand
3)This was pre-planned - knowing no incriminating evidence could be found against him - as was his offer to translate. Why? -
Well - can you imagine? "So, you are telling me these translations were made done by a now arguido?' - it would make them certain to be ripped to shreds in a court of law.

Explains why he has never really slagged off the T9 but attacked the PJ.
Did Murat v Tanner ever go ahead? This in itself could've been purely for show, that is 'these nasty people pointed the finger at me when all I'd done was try to help, woe is me'

Would also explain the 'biggest cock-up in history' comment...

Have I made sense?

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by russiandoll on 27.04.12 10:13

perfect sense.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by nomendelta on 27.04.12 10:32

Yes it makes sense. Even if he wasn't explicitly involved it seems clear now he's playing for Team McCann.

In his book Amaral makes it pretty clear he and his team were suspicious of attempts to point the finger at Murat, feeling in particular that somewhat unsavoury accusations involving a cat and a suggestion that he fitted the profile of an abductor was a little too convenient. It certainly reads that he went along with making him arguido to see where it would lead. Yet in the documentary Murat completely disses Amaral to add fuel to the accusations of being unprofessional.

The BBC and the media have long shown themselves independent of any government. The fact that they are all still on side shows to me that something really deep and sinister is going on, higher even than the Prime Minister since it seems to not matter which party is in power, the McCanns get the support they want.

Oh and Redwood was on Daybreak today and from what I could catch he is definitely pushing the "she's alive" gambit. This is just sick.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Spaniel on 27.04.12 10:43

rainbow-fairy wrote:Oh dear. The jigsaw pieces are slotting together nicely.
I believe:
1)Robert Murat was involved - probably to secure an empty property.
2)The 'fingering' of Murat was intentional, a sort of 'look over there not over here' sleight of hand
3)This was pre-planned - knowing no incriminating evidence could be found against him - as was his offer to translate. Why? -
Well - can you imagine? "So, you are telling me these translations were made done by a now arguido?' - it would make them certain to be ripped to shreds in a court of law.

Explains why he has never really slagged off the T9 but attacked the PJ.
Did Murat v Tanner ever go ahead? This in itself could've been purely for show, that is 'these nasty people pointed the finger at me when all I'd done was try to help, woe is me'

Would also explain the 'biggest cock-up in history' comment...

Have I made sense?
That ties in with my thoughts that someone, maybe the Mc's were looking for a holiday apartment to purchase. "I'm not here to enjoy myself."

Murat hot footing it over to Portugal. Jane Tanner and Murat's DNA found in a flat. G McCann getting shirty when asked if he'd met Murat before.

I don't believe Murat knowingly did anything wrong however, though he may have been conned.
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by david_uk on 27.04.12 11:42

Spaniel wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:Oh dear. The jigsaw pieces are slotting together nicely.
I believe:
1)Robert Murat was involved - probably to secure an empty property.
2)The 'fingering' of Murat was intentional, a sort of 'look over there not over here' sleight of hand
3)This was pre-planned - knowing no incriminating evidence could be found against him - as was his offer to translate. Why? -
Well - can you imagine? "So, you are telling me these translations were made done by a now arguido?' - it would make them certain to be ripped to shreds in a court of law.

Explains why he has never really slagged off the T9 but attacked the PJ.
Did Murat v Tanner ever go ahead? This in itself could've been purely for show, that is 'these nasty people pointed the finger at me when all I'd done was try to help, woe is me'

Would also explain the 'biggest cock-up in history' comment...

Have I made sense?
That ties in with my thoughts that someone, maybe the Mc's were looking for a holiday apartment to purchase. "I'm not here to enjoy myself."

Murat hot footing it over to Portugal. Jane Tanner and Murat's DNA found in a flat. G McCann getting shirty when asked if he'd met Murat before.

I don't believe Murat knowingly did anything wrong however, though he may have been conned.

If he had been conned he would have just made a statement to that effect to the PJ and come clean, hes either nothign to do with it or hes involved , knowingly

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Spaniel on 27.04.12 12:21

david_uk wrote:
Spaniel wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:Oh dear. The jigsaw pieces are slotting together nicely.
I believe:
1)Robert Murat was involved - probably to secure an empty property.
2)The 'fingering' of Murat was intentional, a sort of 'look over there not over here' sleight of hand
3)This was pre-planned - knowing no incriminating evidence could be found against him - as was his offer to translate. Why? -
Well - can you imagine? "So, you are telling me these translations were made done by a now arguido?' - it would make them certain to be ripped to shreds in a court of law.

Explains why he has never really slagged off the T9 but attacked the PJ.
Did Murat v Tanner ever go ahead? This in itself could've been purely for show, that is 'these nasty people pointed the finger at me when all I'd done was try to help, woe is me'

Would also explain the 'biggest cock-up in history' comment...

Have I made sense?
That ties in with my thoughts that someone, maybe the Mc's were looking for a holiday apartment to purchase. "I'm not here to enjoy myself."

Murat hot footing it over to Portugal. Jane Tanner and Murat's DNA found in a flat. G McCann getting shirty when asked if he'd met Murat before.

I don't believe Murat knowingly did anything wrong however, though he may have been conned.

If he had been conned he would have just made a statement to that effect to the PJ and come clean, hes either nothign to do with it or hes involved , knowingly
For all we know, he did. By conned, I mean providing a key to an empty flat, maybe that's why the DNA was found. There's files missing remember.

I have a gut feeling about Murat. He comes across to me as naive rather than crafty.

I'll be shocked if I'm wrong.
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by jd on 27.04.12 13:01

All stories suddenly changed after the 'meeting' with brian kennedy back in Nov 2007 and the pay offs via newspaper libels soon after. I didn't know about BskyB pay out to Murat. Interesting. Now Murat is on team mccann after the deal agreed back in November 2007. Seeing him blame the PJ was really sickening as it is a complete lie. He conveniently forgot it was jane tanner who sat inside a smoked out police car outside his house who identified him as her abductor man. He has forgotten it was one member from each pair of the T9 who identified him as being there on the night of May 3rd (a week later). He has forgotten it was lori campbell, friend of clarence eden mitchell, who publicly stated on TV and went to the PJ claiming it was him that was the abductor. I don't think at all it was the PJ trying to pin the abduction on him in order to just get a result, it was the T9 and close associates who ID'd him and went to the PJ

The whole thing a sham and the lies just get worse and worse
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Spaniel on 27.04.12 13:15

jd wrote:All stories suddenly changed after the 'meeting' with brian kennedy back in Nov 2007 and the pay offs via newspaper libels soon after. I didn't know about BskyB pay out to Murat. Interesting. Now Murat is on team mccann after the deal agreed back in November 2007. Seeing him blame the PJ was really sickening as it is a complete lie. He conveniently forgot it was jane tanner who sat inside a smoked out police car outside his house who identified him as her abductor man. He has forgotten it was one member from each pair of the T9 who identified him as being there on the night of May 3rd (a week later). He has forgotten it was lori campbell, friend of clarence eden mitchell, who publicly stated on TV and went to the PJ claiming it was him that was the abductor. I don't think at all it was the PJ trying to pin the abduction on him in order to just get a result, it was the T9 and close associates who ID'd him and went to the PJ

The whole thing a sham and the lies just get worse and worse
He was also subjected to a face off with three members of T9, but the programme only lasted a scant 30 mins. For all we know, his interview may have lasted a full 30 mins alone, but was heavily edited, same as Amaral's. We only heard what he said, not what he didn't.
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by jd on 27.04.12 13:18

Spaniel wrote:He was also subjected to a face off with three members of T9, but the programme only lasted a scant 30 mins. For all we know, his interview may have lasted a full 30 mins alone, but was heavily edited, same as Amaral's. We only heard what he said, not what he didn't


I totally agree it was edited!! to suit the agenda of the programme which was to bash the PJ from all angles (which has been followed up by the all the newspaper articles since)...But he did say in his own words that the PJ wanted to get a result and were pinning it on him. He has agreed a deal which he now has to stick to...very obvious
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Ross on 27.04.12 13:39

There are some intelligent and mature comments in this thread, but there is a fundamental contradiction running through the thinking. If this was a 'cover-up', it would have been covered up. Instead, we've seen the opposite of a cover-up, we've seen a relentless, co-ordinated, pan-media global publicity campaign. I can't remember the exact quote, but at a relatively early stage McCann said something along the lines of 'our job is to get Madeleine's image everywhere in the world'. You do not draw attention to something you want to hide, nor do you present such a fallible obviously full-of-holes cover story if you want the matter to fade from public consciousness. If this had been a simple act of negligence/criminality by a connected individual we would have barely heard about it, and would have forgotten about it a long time ago. So what is at the heart of this?
The conventional response is the money raised by the fund, but although a few million seems like big money to you and me, it is an irrelevance to the 'Deep State' involved here. Such trivial sums can be magicked out of thin air at any time, 'black' and unaccountable.
The 'chipping agenda' theory has merit, but more so four years ago than now. If this was the case, why has nothing progressed along those lines since? Shouldn't the fake pressure groups have already been set-up, the 'concerned' media scare campaigns already run? If microchipping children was the objective, something has caused it to at least stall.
Human cloning exposed? A swingers group, or high-powered paedophile ring exposed? Possible, but again, if there was some dark secret that had to remain hidden the case would have been hidden, not trumpeted abroad as it has been.
Along with everyone else here I'm sure, I've contemplated this case for several years now but cannot find a convincing answer in conventional, or even exotically conventional areas. The answer, I believe, is as esoteric as the origins. High strangeness.

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Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Miraflores on 27.04.12 13:53

Ross
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Spaniel on 27.04.12 13:55

jd wrote:
Spaniel wrote:He was also subjected to a face off with three members of T9, but the programme only lasted a scant 30 mins. For all we know, his interview may have lasted a full 30 mins alone, but was heavily edited, same as Amaral's. We only heard what he said, not what he didn't


I totally agree it was edited!! to suit the agenda of the programme which was to bash the PJ from all angles (which has been followed up by the all the newspaper articles since)...But he did say in his own words that the PJ wanted to get a result and were pinning it on him. He has agreed a deal which he now has to stick to...very obvious
That's another reason to think he's naive, what does he think happens in a police station when questioned? I daresay you're right in that there is a deal though. Remember the Oxford address?

The only reason I can think why the PJ are still being rubbished is to protect the future findings of NSY. Stranger abduction if alive, pin it on a dead man if not.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by worriedmum on 27.04.12 14:03

Ross, Lbc had a phone in on Madeleine Mccann last night, and a listener suggested micro-chipping. I sent an email which was read out on air,sayng that human care is better than electronic surveillance.( He didn't eread out the part where I said the children were left alone while the parents went out...)
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Miraflores on 27.04.12 14:09

worriedmum wrote: and a listener suggested micro-chipping. .......
An utterly stupid idea. It only works with cats when they are found and because they can't talk and say who they are. It doesn't actually help you in the search for the lost cat. Or are they going to be super sophisticated and have tracking devices in?

As you said, worriedmum - it's much better to take proper care in the first instance.
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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by Spaniel on 27.04.12 14:13

Ross wrote:There are some intelligent and mature comments in this thread, but there is a fundamental contradiction running through the thinking. If this was a 'cover-up', it would have been covered up. Instead, we've seen the opposite of a cover-up, we've seen a relentless, co-ordinated, pan-media global publicity campaign. I can't remember the exact quote, but at a relatively early stage McCann said something along the lines of 'our job is to get Madeleine's image everywhere in the world'. You do not draw attention to something you want to hide, nor do you present such a fallible obviously full-of-holes cover story if you want the matter to fade from public consciousness. If this had been a simple act of negligence/criminality by a connected individual we would have barely heard about it, and would have forgotten about it a long time ago. So what is at the heart of this?
The conventional response is the money raised by the fund, but although a few million seems like big money to you and me, it is an irrelevance to the 'Deep State' involved here. Such trivial sums can be magicked out of thin air at any time, 'black' and unaccountable.
The 'chipping agenda' theory has merit, but more so four years ago than now. If this was the case, why has nothing progressed along those lines since? Shouldn't the fake pressure groups have already been set-up, the 'concerned' media scare campaigns already run? If microchipping children was the objective, something has caused it to at least stall.
Human cloning exposed? A swingers group, or high-powered paedophile ring exposed? Possible, but again, if there was some dark secret that had to remain hidden the case would have been hidden, not trumpeted abroad as it has been.
Along with everyone else here I'm sure, I've contemplated this case for several years now but cannot find a convincing answer in conventional, or even exotically conventional areas. The answer, I believe, is as esoteric as the origins. High strangeness.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

"Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5
It could have started simply as Gordon Brown attaching himself to the story as it would dominate the front pages. His heart must have sunk at such a news story breaking, when he was about to become Prime Minister. Unfortunately the Mc's have gathered so many heads along the way since, that they've become untouchable.

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Re: Who and why would participate in a cover up

Post by jd on 27.04.12 14:19

His heart must have sunk at such a news story breaking, when he was about to become Prime Minister
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