Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[Enigma]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Woofer, I agree.
Uk are not risking relations FOR the McCanns.
This has always been my opinion, but the more I read, the more garbage articles appearing I am more sure than ever;
This goes right to the top. Government, MP's, ex PM's - maybe even 'higher' than that.
I firmly, totally 100% believe that Katerina Gaspar's observations are the reason at the black cancerous heart at the middle of all this.
Very nasty, corrupt, perverted movers and shakers in this country.
If you google the words 'Gordon Brown, p*******le', Dunblane' - you'll see what I mean.
I've seen nothing yet to sway me another way. I believe a 'prominent' was in PdL at the time - the fabled 'T10', possibly - hot-footed it away. Likely as not, they and their filthy cronies are the ones being protected, imho.

Poor, poor Madeleine.

Yes, it`s what I`ve thought in recent years (and have seen all the stuff about ex PMs, Dunblane, Operation Ore, Holly Grieg etc.. including one nicknamed M*****a who KM boasts about being a friend who supposedly phoned them soon after the event, one can just imagine why. Not sure about a `T10` as the whole OC would probably know about him and would have to be silenced. Perhaps its worth looking who left government around the time Maddie went missing.

For those that don't know, Tony Blair, who by the way shared an office deleted with Gordon Brown, was nicknamed "Antonia" and "Miranda" at college, and at chambers.

As an aside, the man who reversed his ruling as to the legality of the Iraq war, was Falconer. He became a flatmate of Tony Blair when they were both young barristers in London in the late 1970s in Wandsworth. They had first met as pupils at rival schools in the 1960s. At school, he dated Amanda Mackenzie Stuart, an ex-girlfriend of Blair's, immediately after that relationship. While Blair went into politics, Falconer concentrated on his legal career. They met again in 1976 when working as barristers in the same chambers. He practised from Fountain Court Chambers in London, and became a Queen's Counsel in 1991.

[AskTheDogsSandra]

It seems to be a stalemate situation. The SY wants the case reopened on the basis that they think Madeleine is alive, the McCanns say they want the case reopened and the PJ want the case reopened. But the Portuguese AG say there's no new evidence. There is nothing to stop the McCanns asking for the case to be reopened and providing the new evidence in the form of a reconstruction. This would have saved £2million of taxpayers money and saved a year of searching time. Yet the McCanns won't ask for the process to be reopened.

The ball is in the McCanns court and they are wasting valuable search time by not cooperating. They could have done this nearly five years ago and found Madeleine by now. What kind of parents would waste such valuable time when it was in their power to do something? Instead of searching properly for Madeleine their priority was to instruct libel lawyers!

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[happychick]

Now that DCI Redwood has said he believes Madeleine is still alive there is no reason why the McCanns shouldn't request the process is reopened. Unless they know differently of course and the dogs are right.

[friedtomatoes]

monkeymind i hardly think some throw away comments on daybreak at only a quarter of the investigation in and with no basis in fact but only opinion will have any grave substance in any trial in the future, there has been a huge plethora of police and other commentators on sofas for 5 years spouting rubbish and opinions, none of it matters, especially if any trial happens in portugal, its three judges, how can this ever become a trial in the uk? could it?

I think, theoretically, it could be a trial in the UK. At the very least for child neglect.

You are joking arent you?

[uppatoffee]

monkeymind i hardly think some throw away comments on daybreak at only a quarter of the investigation in and with no basis in fact but only opinion will have any grave substance in any trial in the future, there has been a huge plethora of police and other commentators on sofas for 5 years spouting rubbish and opinions, none of it matters, especially if any trial happens in portugal, its three judges, how can this ever become a trial in the uk? could it?

I think, theoretically, it could be a trial in the UK. At the very least for child neglect.

I think that they would have needed to have the trial in Portugal, but remember reading that because the Portuguese Police did not believe that the children were left alone they would not charge the McCanns with neglect.

And there is certainly no way that the British Police would charge the McCanns with neglect!

[friedtomatoes]

It seems to be a stalemate situation. The SY wants the case reopened on the basis that they think Madeleine is alive, the McCanns say they want the case reopened and the PJ want the case reopened. But the Portuguese AG say there's no new evidence. There is nothing to stop the McCanns asking for the case to be reopened and providing the new evidence in the form of a reconstruction. This would have saved £2million of taxpayers money and saved a year of searching time. Yet the McCanns won't ask for the process to be reopened.

The ball is in the McCanns court and they are wasting valuable search time by not cooperating. They could have done this nearly five years ago and found Madeleine by now. What kind of parents would waste such valuable time when it was in their power to do something? Instead of searching properly for Madeleine their priority was to instruct libel lawyers!

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It does seem like they did everything to impede the search right from the get go. That can only mean one thing. It seems their strategy was to destroy the police investigation. Very wierd people IMO.

[Enigma]

I have just finished reading this thread. It is evident that there are several extremely knowledgeable individuals making their points of view, but one clearly notices that the signal to noise ratio is out of kilter. Clearly knowledgeable individuals are putting themselves on the line vis a vis their own experiences and research, yet I find the valuable and believable messages drowned out by people that blatantly state that they are "plebs" and do not understand anything. I would put to Mr Bennet that he has a forum that has clearly been infiltrated by malefactors. As an astute observer said yesterday, be careful of these constantly questioning "ingenues" as they are simply here to act as agent provacateurs and consequently provide ammunition for later attack. There are also one or two contributors that are clearly ex or current police, commenting favourably on the Scotland Yard enquiry. From my experience, once a spy, always a spy. With a few honorable exceptions. I am perturbed by candyfloss, who has apparently only now had an epiphany ref: Scotland Yard. Monkey Mind clearly knows what he is talking about, but all these dolls after dolls after dolls keep on dragging the debate back to zero. And tomatoes. The whole world is watching this thread, and people like Juliet, NoFuleMe, are being ignored and drowned out by either stupidity, or malice.

You are entitled to your opinions, however you are insulting to candyfloss and I gather from the dolls and dolls you refer to me and the tomatoes is a ref to friedtomatoes. I am neither stupid nor malicious, I believe in debate and as am trained to begin any research by giving the benefit of the doubt. And to be skeptical. How do you know some of us are not taking a role of devil's advocate in this discussion in order to further debate?

Just because a few of us refrain at this early stage from TOTAL cynicism does not mean we are naive or stupid, there would be almost zero debate on this thread if we all thought along the same lines, just numerous posts denigrating our police force. Fancy one so intelligent as you to disallow a difference of opinion. It is a discussion forum for reasoned debate.
Whoever you are, you appear to think you have a total handle on events and are in possession of a superior intellect. You come across as arrogant in the extreme and I think you have added nothing to this thread. Some here have researched this case for years and recent events have been discouraging, perhaps it is not such a bad thing that some here are trying to retain a positive outlook.
btw I am neither stupid nor naive. I am not ex police either, but a highly- trained analyst and linguist.
over and out ! [You would have been better to insult me with the Russian part of my user name btw, as I am more Russian than doll-like.]
correction of your post. "agent "is a singular and as you were ref to more than one person on the forum, it needs an "s" at the end.
provacateurs is mis-spelt, although you got the plural ending for the adjective here...spelling is provocateurs. so you should have written AGENTS PROVOCATEURS. Nothing more annoying than people trying to show how clever they are by using foreign phrases.....incorrectly. No reply needed as I will not be communicating with you further.
B - decent effort but could do better
Do svidaniya!

A riddle wrapped up in an enigma

Meaning

A puzzle - difficult to solve.

Origin

A form of Winston Churchill's quotation, made in a radio broadcast in October 1939:

"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."


Enigma

In the following, substitute Team McCann for the German military command.

The question is, does Detective Redwood have the key?

I propose that THAT key is British national interest.

The German military used the Enigma cipher machine during WW2 to keep their communications secret. The machine was available commercially during the 1920s, but the military potential of the device was quickly realised and the German army, navy and air force all used a more developed model of the machine to encipher their messages believing that it would make these communications impenetrable to the enemy.
The Enigma machine is an electro-mechanical device that relies on a series of rotating 'wheels' or ‘rotors’ to scramble plaintext messages into incoherent ciphertext. The machine's variable elements can be set in many billions of combinations, and each one will generate a completely different ciphertext message. If you know how the machine has been set up, you can type the ciphertext back in and it will unscramble the message. If you don't know the Enigma setting, the message remains indecipherable.
The German authorities believed in the absolute security of the Enigma. However, with the help of Polish mathematicians who had managed to acquire a machine prior to the outbreak of WW2, British code breakers stationed at Bletchley Park managed to exploit weaknesses in the machine and how it was used and were able to crack the Enigma code.
Breaking the Enigma ciphers gave the Allies a key advantage, which, according to historians, shortened the war by two years thus saving many lives.

[rainbow-fairy]

I'm sure I was probably included in the 'dig'.I'm trying very hard to give the two outcomes;
1) PT are close to reopening and this is all pre-emptive desperation

2) We are being prepped for the mother of all cover ups.

Personally, I think no 1 is highly possible HOWEVER there is a cover-up of some description going on, whatever.

As for people dissing 'conspiracy theories/theorists' here seems an opportune time to re-post the following:

Conspiracy Theorists
By Jolly Roger
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1-8-5

 

Everyone has heard, and has probably used the term "conspiracy theorist," and the fact of the term being in common use, also indicates that we generally agree on what it means. I saw a movie by that name, and the title character was a raving lunatic who kept his food in thermoses with combination locks to reduce his chances of being poisoned by imaginary enemies.

 

Regardless of how the stupid movie turned out, what's important here is the common perception people have of someone to whom that label is applied, and just as important, is who it is that applies the label. The common perception is that someone who is labeled a "conspiracy theorist" is suffering from some type of psychological disorder, and that label is usually applied to people by our government, and our news media. The next thing to consider, is that the label is applied to anyone who questions our government's version of events in any matter. Doesn't it logically follow that the media are teaching us to assume that anyone who questions the government is insane? When that label is applied to a person, doesn't it become easy to dismiss everything they say without even hearing it? How convenient for them.

 

I think the label first became widely used to slander people who questioned the details surrounding the JFK assassination, and forty years later, there aren't too many thinking people who still believe the Warren Commission's "lone gunman" explanation. That explanation is doubted by everyone who has taken the time to look into the details, and believed only by people who refuse to.

 

Which is "theory" and which is fact? In the absence of a full confession, this can only be decided by a preponderance of evidence, and it would be silly to come to a conclusion on any matter without looking at all the evidence available. This is only common sense, just as it is safe to assume some degree of guilt or complicity on the part of anyone who lies about an event, or tries to hide, plant, or destroy any type of evidence.

 

Conspiracy theories arise from evidence. After the government releases an explanation of a particular event, a conspiracy theory is only born because evidence exists to disprove their explanation, or at least call it into question. There's nothing insane about it, unless you define sanity as believing whatever the government tells you. In light of the fact that our government lies to us regularly, I would define believing everything they tell you as utter stupidity.

 

In July of 1996, flight 800 exploded over Long Island. Shortly after their terrorist explanation failed scrutiny, our government then explained the event by claiming that a faulty electrical system caused a spark that ignited a fuel tank, and the people who doubted this explanation were quickly labeled "conspiracy theorists." More than a hundred witnesses saw a missile travel from the ground up to the plane just prior to its explosion, but rather than being treated as eyewitnesses to an event, they were labeled "conspiracy theorists," which label allowed all subsequent investigation to ignore the strongest evidence in the matter.

 

Our "investigative" news agencies decided to accept and disseminate the official story, and they helped us forget the U.S. naval station nearby, the fact that missiles were regularly test fired there, and naturally, they paid no heed to more than a hundred "conspiracy theorists" who saw the plane get blown out of the sky by a missile. I believe that the U.S. Navy accidentally shot down flight 800, and that's my belief because it's the most sensible explanation that can be drawn from the available evidence. I'm not theorizing about conspiracies, but there are conflicting explanations of the event, and if the Navy did accidentally blow a passenger plane out of the sky, who would have a motive to lie about it? The U.S. government, or a hundred witnesses?

 

Then of course, there were the "crazy conspiracy theories" arising from the bombing of the Alfred Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. In that matter, audio tapes and witnesses agree that there were two explosions, the first of which occurred inside the building between eight and ten seconds before the truck bomb exploded. Explosive experts agree that Timothy McVeigh's fertilizer bomb could not have destroyed the building, and the FBI's counter terrorism chief, and members of BATF lied about their whereabouts during and prior to the catastrophe. The evening news decided not to tell you any of this, and they will label anyone who tries to a "paranoid conspiracy theorist." In light of the evidence, we would be complete fools if a conspiracy theory didn't exist.

 

There were no conspiracy theories arising from the explosion of flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and there were no conspiracy theories arising from the work of the uni-bomber, so the newly invented psycho-babble that tries to explain the malady of conspiracy theorists, also needs to explain why millions of conspiracy theorists all decided not to theorize about those events. There is no psychological malady. There was simply no evidence to indicate a conspiracy.

 

The real question is not why people theorize about conspiracies, but why people choose to believe the government's version of events when it's obvious that they're lying. One reason is that most people never see the evidence because our "news" industry hides it, and another reason is that the same news industry will quickly associate anyone who questions the government with the people who see Elvis, Bigfoot, and UFO's.

 

But sadly, I think the main reason people choose to believe the government's version of events despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, is because it's easier, and safer. If you ignore most of the evidence, and accept as plausible whatever ridiculous explanation the T.V. provides, your life remains simple, and you get to sit on your ass and watch more T.V. If on the other hand, you pluck your head from that same ass and realize you've been lied to, as a citizen in a democratic society, you're instantly burdened with being responsible for doing something about it. Every citizen of the United States has a civic duty to participate in their government, and keep themselves informed of its actions, or government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" isn't possible. You were warned that "eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, " but you chose to ignore your government, and believe whatever they told you, and because of this, Americans have lost their freedom. Although presidents and senators are public servants, unlike the dog catcher and mailman, they wield a lot of power over people's lives, and that's why they have to be watched, and scrutinized.

 

Statistical analysts from UCLA and Rutgers University believe that John Kerry won the 2004 presidential election by an estimated 1.3 million votes, and despite the fact that these learned scholars are probably the most qualified people alive to forward such an opinion, our news madia dismisses this as "conspiracy theory." George W. Bush lost the 2000 election, and he lost the 2004 election, but he's occupying the White House, shredding our constitution, and stealing our wealth and freedom in a "war on terror" that's as fraudulent as his presidency because many Americans are too stupid to see it, too lazy to do anything about it, or both.

 

I'm sorry if I sound angry, but the fact of the matter is that I am angry. While you were staring into the television like an idiot, our freedom, wealth, and constitutional protections have been stolen from us, and because you're stupid enough to believe the manure being shoveled by our government, you've allowed them to commit bigger and more heinous crimes. Because you were too lazy to research their nonsensical economic policies, and see them for the scams that they are, we'll all soon be living in poverty. And because you're so lazy, apathetic, and easily lied to, millions have died for the profits of a few. I have every right to be angry, and only a fool wouldn't be.

 

Only a small portion of my anger is reserved for the government of the United States, because they only did what can be expected of any government. They grabbed money, power and control where it was easy to do so. Most of my anger is directed toward my fellow American citizens, because they allowed it to happen by believing whatever they're told, and not doing what's expected of them. Patriotism in America does not mean waving the flag in blind loyalty to the government. As an American citizen, you have a civic duty to question your government, and hold them accountable for their actions, not use the flag as a blindfold. The American people have been duped once again, and it doesn't seem like it's a difficult thing to accomplish.

 

America's latest "conspiracy nuts" are better known as the 9-11 truth movement. The news media are doing their usual job of slandering them with their usual childish name calling, but for more than three years, they have refused to show you the documented fact, scientific data, expert testimony, photographic evidence, or the credible eyewitness accounts that prove U.S. government complicity in the events of September, 11, 2001. If this were just a "crazy conspiracy theory," I don't think people in our government would have worked so hard to destroy, hide, and lie about the evidence. The White House tried to derail every investigation into the matter. If we had an honest government, we wouldn't have conspiracy theories. We would have honest investigations, and fair trials, but these things are disappearing from America.

 

There are disturbing facts regarding the events of September 11 that every American needs to be aware of , but naturally, none of it will be on T.V. I've met a lot of people in the 9-11 truth movement, and I can assure you that none of them are crazy, paranoid, or even "conspiracy theorists." One generalization I can make about them is that they all seem to be very intelligent. Maybe the smartest thing you could do would be to start listening to them. The Arabs don't "hate your freedom." The White House hates your freedom, because it's the only thing that stands between them, and unlimited power. - Jolly Roger

 

"Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Freedom" - Thomas Jefferson

 

911truth.org 911review.org 911review.com physics911.org wtc7.net

 

 

Anything written by "Jolly Roger" is the property of the American Resistance Movement, and the author hereby grants permission to anyone who so desires to post, print, copy, or distribute this letter as they see fit, and in fact, the author encourages you to do so.

Basically, conspiracy theories only abound when the 'official line' doesn't fit the evidence, the facts or what we know.
No conspiracy with Sarah Payne, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, etc etc.
There is with this case through the lies, the inconsistencies and the PR spin. Simples.

[monkey mind]

monkeymind i hardly think some throw away comments on daybreak at only a quarter of the investigation in and with no basis in fact but only opinion will have any grave substance in any trial in the future, there has been a huge plethora of police and other commentators on sofas for 5 years spouting rubbish and opinions, none of it matters, especially if any trial happens in portugal, its three judges, how can this ever become a trial in the uk? could it?

Friedtomatoes,

Well, that's quite an erudite statement from someone who has described themself as a pleb is it not?

Did I speak of a trial in the UK? Think not.

This man - Redwood - is the lead investigator, the man responsible for one of the highest profile enquiries in the UK in two decades or more, and he publicly expresses 5 years after the fact that he believes it was a crime commited by a stranger thus exonerating entirely the T9. And you, would like to portray what for about three days has been broadcast upon every major news network, radio, and national newspaper as......

...wait for it......

"some throw away comment."

You know damn well it's relevant. You ain't gonna trash the obvious that easily, but tell you what....

I'm finished with you.

[russiandoll]

I've said it before but I think it bears repitition as to why I think a whitewash is on the way.

It's quite simple - Redwood didn't have to say ANYTHING. At the most a general "We cannot comment whilst a review is ongoing" would have been more than enough of a statement to make. The fact that he HAS spoken out and with SO MUCH that helps Team McCann leads me to suspect he, and by extension the SY review, is siding with TM. Given it's the 5th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance and given her birthday and the paperback of Kate's bewk are forthcoming there was always going to be a flurry of publicity. SY chipping in I see as being in no way indicative of gameplaying, strategy, being clever and playing cat and mouse simply because they didn't need to talk.

this is how I felt initially, my immediate reaction. I am inclined not to take this at face value, however, and will wait for some more evidence of this before becoming totally cynical. I just am wondering what on earth could be a secret so desperate to keep that the Met would collude in covering it up, that is a conspiracy too far at the moment for me

[russiandoll]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

[tigger]

It seems to be a stalemate situation. The SY wants the case reopened on the basis that they think Madeleine is alive, the McCanns say they want the case reopened and the PJ want the case reopened. But the Portuguese AG say there's no new evidence. There is nothing to stop the McCanns asking for the case to be reopened and providing the new evidence in the form of a reconstruction. This would have saved £2million of taxpayers money and saved a year of searching time. Yet the McCanns won't ask for the process to be reopened.

The ball is in the McCanns court and they are wasting valuable search time by not cooperating. They could have done this nearly five years ago and found Madeleine by now. What kind of parents would waste such valuable time when it was in their power to do something? Instead of searching properly for Madeleine their priority was to instruct libel lawyers!

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It does seem like they did everything to impede the search right from the get go. That can only mean one thing. It seems their strategy was to destroy the police investigation. Very wierd people IMO.

Perhaps we're forgetting the attitude of the McCanns:
They told their story to the police - the police should have acted ONLY on their story.
This was Portugal - they were doctors, they had important friends - they had massive publicity.
They changed their story in almost every statement. Specifically about which doors they used.
The tapas 7 backed it up and were surprised that they weren't allowed to take their (3rd !) typewritten crib sheet with them to make their statements.
None of the above struck them as important - all they needed to do is tell the police what happened, activate the protective cover and sit back to see the plaudits and money roll in.
They took to the celebrity lifestyle like ducks to water. And then some!
'Rome is preparing itself for our visit' - on visiting the Pope.
'There will be riots in the UK' - on being made arguidos.

There is a name for such a condition - quite rare to have both husband and wife suffering from the same complex.

[russiandoll]

yes narcissistic personalty disorder Tigger.

[Ribisl]

Basically, conspiracy theories only abound when the 'official line' doesn't fit the evidence, the facts or what we know.
No conspiracy with Sarah Payne, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, etc etc.
There is with this case through the lies, the inconsistencies and the PR spin. Simples.

[url=[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/url]

[rainbow-fairy]

Basically, conspiracy theories only abound when the 'official line' doesn't fit the evidence, the facts or what we know.
No conspiracy with Sarah Payne, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, etc etc.
There is with this case through the lies, the inconsistencies and the PR spin. Simples.

[url=[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/url] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Squeak!!!
I think I might change my profile pic to that he he

[friedtomatoes]

monkeymind i hardly think some throw away comments on daybreak at only a quarter of the investigation in and with no basis in fact but only opinion will have any grave substance in any trial in the future, there has been a huge plethora of police and other commentators on sofas for 5 years spouting rubbish and opinions, none of it matters, especially if any trial happens in portugal, its three judges, how can this ever become a trial in the uk? could it?

Friedtomatoes,

Well, that's quite an erudite statement from someone who has described themself as a pleb is it not?

Did I speak of a trial in the UK? Think not.

This man - Redwood - is the lead investigator, the man responsible for one of the highest profile enquiries in the UK in two decades or more, and he publicly expresses 5 years after the fact that he believes it was a crime commited by a stranger thus exonerating entirely the T9. And you, would like to portray what for about three days has been broadcast upon every major news network, radio, and national newspaper as......

...wait for it......

"some throw away comment."

You know damn well it's relevant. You ain't gonna trash the obvious that easily, but tell you what....

I'm finished with you.

Your post of 4.52 today was talking about a trial, perhaps I read too much into it. I can be erudite by the way, and speak with my intuition and informed opinion but still be a PLEB in matters of politics, shenanigans, cover ups, the dodgy media and that whole sagas that surround THOSE things. Sorry you are done with me, I never meant to antagonise you with anything, I found your posts very good, was just posting and speaking my mind, oh well. As for Redwood, I honestly dont know if he is part of a whitewash though it does SEEM that way, I posted that I dont believe that 30 sy detectives would go along with it.And if they did, the question remains WHY. The answer to that question may sheld light on this digusting saga. I think he is through no fault of his own in the middle of a precarious situation, the last I would expect to hear from him is anything negative in public against the abudction scenario. I do think though that his presence on tv via panorama and itv morning shows is odd. There was no need for it.

[friedtomatoes]

It seems to be a stalemate situation. The SY wants the case reopened on the basis that they think Madeleine is alive, the McCanns say they want the case reopened and the PJ want the case reopened. But the Portuguese AG say there's no new evidence. There is nothing to stop the McCanns asking for the case to be reopened and providing the new evidence in the form of a reconstruction. This would have saved £2million of taxpayers money and saved a year of searching time. Yet the McCanns won't ask for the process to be reopened.

The ball is in the McCanns court and they are wasting valuable search time by not cooperating. They could have done this nearly five years ago and found Madeleine by now. What kind of parents would waste such valuable time when it was in their power to do something? Instead of searching properly for Madeleine their priority was to instruct libel lawyers!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It does seem like they did everything to impede the search right from the get go. That can only mean one thing. It seems their strategy was to destroy the police investigation. Very wierd people IMO.

Perhaps we're forgetting the attitude of the McCanns:
They told their story to the police - the police should have acted ONLY on their story.
This was Portugal - they were doctors, they had important friends - they had massive publicity.
They changed their story in almost every statement. Specifically about which doors they used.
The tapas 7 backed it up and were surprised that they weren't allowed to take their (3rd !) typewritten crib sheet with them to make their statements.
None of the above struck them as important - all they needed to do is tell the police what happened, activate the protective cover and sit back to see the plaudits and money roll in.
They took to the celebrity lifestyle like ducks to water. And then some!
'Rome is preparing itself for our visit' - on visiting the Pope.
'There will be riots in the UK' - on being made arguidos.

There is a name for such a condition - quite rare to have both husband and wife suffering from the same complex.

I think most free thinking half intelligent people know there is something rotten in the state of denmark with this case. It has been clear from the first minute.

[Spaniel]

This doesn't seem the right place to put this, but here goes.

Arh, don't waste time with my ramblings, scroll down to below the line. The interview is here.

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"With the possible exception of their blessing by the Pope at the Vatican, which was the brainwave of a tabloid newspaper."[/font">

WHAT?


Well well well. I was about to bore you all for ever after with what I'd picked from the Tmes article until that little beauty sprung out at me.
So it was Rupert Murdoch who arranged the Papal visit. The infamous Papal Knight. Not a Catholic, but puts money their way.
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They were all in cahoots from the off. This Times interview was dated September 4th 2007.
I wonder whether G. McCann's vision of a tunnel of light had anything to do with a phone call from News International?

[Lady-Heather]

All I can see at the moment is that good diplomatic relations between UK and Portugal are in danger of breaking down, hatred between 2 countries being initiated when once they were friends, a great chasm is appearing. SY or our government must be taking one hell of a risk to put the McCanns very dubious story in precedence over good relations with Portugal.

Extremely odd.

Woofer, I agree.
Uk are not risking relations FOR the McCanns.
This has always been my opinion, but the more I read, the more garbage articles appearing I am more sure than ever;
This goes right to the top. Government, MP's, ex PM's - maybe even 'higher' than that.
I firmly, totally 100% believe that Katerina Gaspar's observations are the reason at the black cancerous heart at the middle of all this.
Very nasty, corrupt, perverted movers and shakers in this country.
If you google the words 'Gordon Brown, p*******le', Dunblane' - you'll see what I mean.
I've seen nothing yet to sway me another way. I believe a 'prominent' was in PdL at the time - the fabled 'T10', possibly - hot-footed it away. Likely as not, they and their filthy cronies are the ones being protected, imho.

Poor, poor Madeleine.

This is at the essence of everything in this case IMO. Looking at the situation in its entirety, the gestalt view, the clues are there as to why the situation (cock-up:) exists at all. Who else was there that week? Who was watching them? Why?

Mi6 agents.
Military satellites.

Then Madeleine was 'abducted'. Those pesky McCanns. That's all we need. Time for damage limitation - send everyone we have: foreign office, media monitoring, Bell Pottinger, lawyers. More when needed. It's a matter of national security (Gordon Brown, 2007).

The McCanns are not the ones being protected IMO.

[friedtomatoes]

Wouldnt surprise me if murdochs machine was behind all this. Then again he is not the only news mogul in the country. I am a pleb in these cases though.

What is plain to see is that this case is NOT just a missing child case. With only Police and relevant parties involved.

[Ribisl]

Squeak!!!
I think I might change my profile pic to that he he

I was rather fond of Beetroot myself

P.S. Sorry Candyfloss for being totally off-topic and irrelevant

[Smokeandmirrors]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

[friedtomatoes]

100% LadyHeather. The McCanns are being protected, but only to take the heat off a bigger picture IMO. Dots join, they may be on the periphery but my money is on another 2 elements within the group connected outwards to the bigger picture, too many coincidences.

Can you flesh this out a bit? The Mccanns are being protected from what exactly and for what reason? And they are going along with a lie because?

[Tony Bennett]

So it was Rupert Murdoch who arranged the Papal visit. The infamous Papal Knight. Not a Catholic, but puts money their way.
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They were all in cahoots from the off. This Times interview was dated September 4th 2007.I wonder whether G. McCann's vision of a tunnel of light had anything to do with a phone call from News International?

The article says that the McCanns' visit to the Pope was 'the brainwave of a tabloid newspaper'. That's very interesting given there exists a video of a TV interview with Clarence Mitchell (somwhere on the net) in which he openly boasts of his having 'arranged' the visit to the Pope, via the then Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor (who, it may remembered, broke British law by failing to report to Sussex Police sexual abuse crimes against children by one of his priests. He was not prosecuted for that crime).

These two claims are not mutually exclusive...

Rupert Murdoch is a 'Papal Knight'...

Clarence Mitchell, after working for the McCanns, got a job with Rupert Murdoch's son-on-law, Matthew Freud (whose father Clement Freud entertained the McCanns royally at his Algarve villa...

and Mitchell had close ties to the Sun and News International all along, and no doubt had good links with the Archbishop.

+++++++

One sentence in that Times (also a Murdoch paper) report was, shall we say, contentious at the time, namely this rather absurd one:

Yet the story has only one fact: on the evening of 3 May, a three-year-old child,. Madeleine McCann, disappeared from the bedroom where she slept.

[Guest]

Saturday, 28 April 2012

Schrödinger's Cat

You may call me naive... when it was revealed that Kate McCann would release a paperback version of her book 'Madeleine' with an added chapter about the Scotland Yard review, I really did wonder just how she would manage it. Especially when it was said that the British review would be conducted in utmost secrecy with no final report even being made public.


Lead investigator DCI Andy Redwood originally stated that the open minded investigation followed two leads - one that Madeleine was alive and secondly that she was sadly dead. This week however, we appear get a good idea of how things are panning out, ready for the 5 year anniversary and paperback book launch.


Several sources, including Robert Murat, Alan Johnson and Isabel Duarte, enabled Panorama to come across as an all out denigration of the Portuguese people and its police force. Extremely degrading towards Portugal, the show pointed the finger of guilt at everyone except the main players... Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends.


Despite the Portuguese having primacy in the case and Scotland Yard only being one quarter of the way through their file, we now have claims that Madeleine is alive, having been subjected to a criminal act by a stranger. And even more bizarrely, this respected Detective Chief Inspector is making these claims whilst doing the sofa run on morning television. There's something just not right about that... We have also been proffered an image of what Madeleine may look like at the age of nine and a possible 195 historical investigative teasers.




The Scotland Yard review is made up of 3 elements... information from the Portuguese and British police in addition to the array of private investigators hired by the McCanns. Authorities in Portugal have publicly rejected the media led request to reopen the case, saying it would only be reopened on the basis of new evidence from a "serious, pertinent and authoritative" source. Authoritative source... can we assume that these 195 old leads have come from the unauthoritative files of the private investigators? What a strange place for a police force to start a review. Despite the AG stating that these historical 'leads' are quite obviously not new, the alive drive continues.


As the Portuguese are not willing to reopen the case using old evidence, I would appeal to DCI Redwood to reveal every one of these 195 leads and identify which part of the investigation they have arisen, in the same way that he has unveiled the image of a 9 year old Madeleine. The public are a great help in many investigations, why not this one? It would also quash the wave of accusations and rumours that a whitewash is in full flow.


Amongst many questions still being asked, the review has declared a live child yet failed to explain the scent of death found in many related places by a British cadaver dog. And because of these very serious indications, the review should explain just how they have reached the conclusion of a live child being taken from the apartment. The analysis of a sporadic, jotted down timeline really doesn't wash.

There is persistent chatter that the McCanns have the right to request the reopening of the case in Portugal themselves at no cost, but no-one in the British media has ever questioned this. This current review has so far cost the taxpayer £2m, and is only one quarter along - are we foreseeing a final bill of £8m three years on with diplomatic relations with Portugal on a downward spiral?

These questions (or answers) will obviously not make it into the additional chapter of the paperback but fortunately for the McCanns, Scotland Yard have astonishingly given them plenty of perfectly timed material to use when they "speak publicly next week". Not to mention the money and headline grabbing media. The begging bowl may be left in the pantry this time around, but plenty can be made from the book.


**With thanks to SteelMagnolia for the links and Hideho for the videos. Please view Hideho's video channel on Youtube by clicking here.
Posted by Me, Myself, Moi... at 16:27

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[russiandoll]

The remit states it will be open and transparent. They must be held to that. Is SY answerable to the Home Secretary?
SY should simply have said nothing at all at this stage, or provided some evidence of their evidence.

[friedtomatoes]

I can only add that latest computer generated image of what Madeleine might look like now is pretty lame IMO. How on earth did they think her fringe would be coffed over like that, making her look half bald, they have made her look more like a boy than a girl too. Madeleine was a very pretty girl, the new image looks nothing like her.

Still, they havent made her look 21 or anything, the sunkissed Maddie images of her at SIX that made her look like 16 were bizarre enoughh, who are these idiots?

[monkey mind]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

[Pershing36]

This forum is starting to concern me. Whatever your aspect on the the case we have to take the rough with the smooth.

It seems to me that both the UK and the Portuguese Governments could look silly, whatever is the truth of the case.

If it pans out it was an abductor, we have only the PJ to go by.

[friedtomatoes]

thus exonerating entirely the T9.

err no he has not Monkeymind.

and don't be so rude to fellow members please. Not that friedtomatoes will be too upset at your disapproval

Ah thank you for the slap Russian doll.

Perhaps I was rude, perhaps not. It will be seen by all differently. If I offended friedtomatoes, or you who profess to know her mind, or anyone, I apologise. Sincerely I do, simply trying to help, fit of exasperation I suppose.

One thing I have absolutely no desire to get involved in is sniping and/or subterfuge. I simply, genuinely don't have the time nor the will for it. Seems to be quite the thing though eh?

My comment about 'exonerating the T9, well, it is my tendency to think ahead, to what would happen in a court of law rather than a forum, and that, is exactly how defending counsel would portray it. I'm not going to argue with you on that for two reasons....1) genuinely, without wishing to cause offence, I really have no desire to......2) quite simply, it is almost certainly true.

I admire your tenacity, you and the other long standing members.

You didnt offend me, I was just surprised that you tried to make out I was some kind of imposter, I am not, I firmly 100% believe the Mccanns have lied through their teeth, it is plain to see and read theyhave done so, the only partthat confuses me is if they are acting alone and if not why