Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

[ShuBob]

but how does one logically move from she was abducted .. to.. there is evidence she is alive ?

One doesn't. Unless there is more information/evidence, like they have seen her perhaps

but then they would get her back not make appeals for witnesses.something truly bizarre going on here. more to it than meets the eye I reckon.

I agree.

As a senior policeman with many years of service, Redwood WILL BE WELL AWARE of the statistics in relation to stranger abduction. Some of the comments attributed to him in the last 24 hours make no sense whatsoever.

[NoFuleMe]

Here's an example of Panorama acting for mi5 and foreign governments

Panorama is the flagship bbc documentary propaganda arm

They get all the juiciest stories

And Tavistock and mi5 6 bastards pump out all the lies


I write to you as a concerned viewer. However I am also a victim of Israeli state terrorism and an eyewitness to the initial attack on the MV Mavi Marmara. This evening in Derry, co-incidentally while in the home of a former British soldier, I watched your programme about the pre-dawn Israeli attack on our flotilla. I have not spoken to anybody else about it yet and am ignorant of the reactions of others, but I want to convey to you how both a loyal servant of your Majesty the Queen and I both agreed that what we witnessed was the BBC becoming, yet again, an apologist for State terrorism and British tax pounds being used to do what BBC colluded in doing in the aftermath of Bloody Sunday, blaming of the victims while taking the word of the aggressors as unadulterated gospel.
Your programme is called Panorama. In the past you have had excellent reports on a whole range of topics, however I personally had a panoramic view of the initial attack on the flotilla and rather think that your programme should have been renamed BBC Myopia or BBC Selective Blindness to accurately represent the standard of your investigative reporting. The commandos started shooting from the get go, from the zodiac assault boats and the helicopters and that is a fact, so why attempt to plant any doubt in the public imagination?
I am interested in the timing of your programme. As was stated correctly at the beginning, there are several investigations still underway. I will be in London later this week to testify before the UN’s OHCHR fact finding team. I am also awaiting a response from Senator John Kerry to my request for a US Senate Committee for Foreign Affairs hearing that would establish the facts about the murder of 19 year old US citizen Furkan Do?an, as well as the armed attack on our US registered vessel, the Challenger 1. These investigations are long, drawn out affairs and as such; require its media coverage to be like that of a marathon race, diligent commentary of every stage, as opposed to your hop, skip and a jump into an Israeli propaganda sandpit of predefined conclusions.
Like others from the flotilla, I have been asked to keep my testimony out of the media until these legal and fact finding investigations have reached their conclusions. The point being that if we all do this, then all sides can begin to deal with the facts and not the hearsay, propaganda and doctored footage that your programme expounded for half an hour this evening at the expense of the British people and your own credibility. So why did you implicate the BBC in the state terrorism of Medinat Yisrael by broadcasting a clearly biased programme before all the investigations have concluded?
Why did you use audio and video footage that has proven to be doctored? I am referring to the audio purported to be anti-Semitic remarks issued over the radio by members of the flotilla, this never happened. The IDF have admitted that this clip was doctored, as well as the clip you showed of a percussion grenade exploding in one of the Israeli zodiac assault boats this never happened either. However, you broadcast it as if this doctored footage and audio was in anyway credible? You didn’t make much of a deal out of the fact that the IDF did use percussion grenades and injured us with them, including one piano-tuner who had a grenade explode by his ear. One Jewish man was later put in solitary confinement in Be’er Sheva for three days for being a “traitor”.
It is not as if there was a lack of sensational evidence for you to use. Why did you not air the radio threats from the IDF to use “all military means necessary” to take all our ships while we were in international waters, stating they would blame the captains for any injuries/ loss of life? I heard that live, why wasn’t it in your documentary? Surely this is relevant for any journalist interested in a fair portrayal of the events that morning? Would it be that BBC, as it did after Bloody Sunday, is offering its considerable powers to assassins as they try to paint a picture that is so scornful of reality?
As far as I am concerned the order must have come from somewhere for the commandos to murder Muslims but not White Europeans or Americans. It is interesting how 19 year old Furkan Do?an’s nationality has changed from American to Turkish once Israeli bullets passed through his back, face and legs. Would this be because he has/had brown skin? There wasn’t much on that in your programme either. Have the BBC dared to ask President Obama about that?
Why was there no focus on the brutality experienced by our flotilla brothers and sisters on the Challenger 1 and other boats? What about the Scottish-Palestinian, Dr. Hassan Nowarah, who had his leg and ankle broken five times by the commandos during custody precisely because he was already wearing a cast to support a badly sprained ankle? Is it because he is a Palestinian and the BBC does not allow Palestinians to be victims just as Irish Catholics weren’t allowed to be victims until recently? Why was the focus so narrow? If you wanted a panoramic understanding of what happened you should have waited until the investigations are over and interviewed more of us instead of dragging the reputation of the BBC flagship documentary through the blood and dirt in your haste to abet Israeli State Terrorism.
What about those of us who were threatened with death and had our passports stolen for requesting to see our embassy staff and lawyers in Ben Gurion airport? I wanted to meet my legal arraignment to appear in an Israeli court so I could defend myself from the spurious charges against me. I was beaten up by 17 IDF members and threatened with death for doing so. This happened three and a half days after the attack on the flotilla and directly under a CCTV camera in the airport. Why didn’t we see that video on BBC? This is because, one the BBC wouldn’t be interested in those types of facts and anyway, the IDF decide what “evidence” is released and you have bent over backwards to lend them credibility, and that is criminal.
I know that the likes of BBC is used to being called in to film bags of US AID grain being dropped in one part of Muslim countries while any coverage of the White Phosphorus and Depleted Uranium raining down on another part is omitted. This perhaps explains your skepticism about the humanitarian purpose of our mission. I am fascinated that your IDF embedded reporter seems to have come up with the statement; “Two thirds of the Medical Aid was out of date and therefore useless” as an unprofessional addendum at the end of the programme. Really? Did Jane Corbin personally inspect the more than 10,000 tonnes of aid and feel qualified enough to make such a statement? Where is the evidence and what procedures were observed before such a lie was broadcast? Who is culpable? To whom should we make out the affidavits? Did she mention anything about the batteries taken out of the electric wheelchairs by the IDF because they were deemed to be “dual purpose”? How about the reports of IDF personnel urinating on the medical aid? No, it seems she added that statement because she wasn’t confident her report had sufficiently transferred the blame of the attack from the perpetrators to the victims.
The BBC are also obviously ignorant of the legal proceedings that IHH is taking against the New York Times for defamation, because there again your programme repeated the lie that IHH is not the globally reputed humanitarian organisation that it is.
This shotgun wedding between the IDF and the BBC is a short-sighted, ill-advised and ill-fated venture. The events of June 15th prove that the people of Derry and even a Conservative PM like David Cameron can help bring about change once the facts are established. However, like FOX Television’s Tea party agenda since 2009, BBC proves that it cannot respect real change by continuing its complicity in war crimes. Despite the Saville Report, the BBC, as one of the main actors in the British State cover-up has obviously not learned. It must be force of habit that sees media outlets like the BBC and FOX Television get into bed with xenophobes and war criminals even when it is clear that people will not suffer your unethical divisiveness any longer.
This is not an official letter of complaint; however please expect many of those to follow through the appropriate channels. I just want to share my mind with you and let you know that your programme has made me decide to write to the families of the Bloody Sunday massacre victims to see if they would support the idea of continuing the tradition of marching in January to commemorate those who were assassinated on the Mavi Marmara as well as the countless other murders in Palestine that the BBC continues to brush under the carpet.
As the world embraces the culture of justice that has defined Derry over the past decades, and begins to make it its own, the world also sees how the BBC continues its own culture of vilifying the victims while providing air support for assassins. This too must one day change. If you feel like answering my letter, please feel free but I already think your position regarding State terrorism is blatant enough already.
Yours Sincerely,
Mr. Fiachra Ó Luain

« The BBC’s pact with IsraelA shockingly biased piece of Israeli propaganda paid for by BBC licence payers »
2 Responses to “Open Letter to BBC Panorama”
Synwave says:
August 18, 2010 at 5:41 pm
The BBC responded with:

Dear Mr. Ó Luain
Thank you for your feedback regarding ‘Panorama – Death in the Med’ as broadcast on 16 August. Please be assured that your concerns were forwarded to the programme’s production team.

We understand the strength of feeling regarding the Israeli Defence Force’s operation against the Mavi Marmara on 31 May 2010. We recognise the complexity of the subject and note its ramifications within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a whole.

This programme intended to explore the considerable confusion about what actually happened on the Mavi Marmara on the day in question.

Israel has been accused of breaking international law by seizing a Turkish ship. Israel says the protesters were terrorists. Turkey insists they were innocent victims. With several inquiries underway Panorama’s Jane Corbin uncovered important new evidence from both sides in a bid to establish what really happened.

Jane Corbin is a world renowned journalist with twenty years’ experience reporting for ‘Panorama’ and the on-going conflict in the Middle East. She is respected for her dedicated, impartial and balanced work on both sides of the conflict and approached this subject with the same level of fairness which she is known for.

We appreciate some viewers were unhappy about the nature of the video and audio footage we showed. We can assure you that enormous care was involved in selecting the footage we showed. During the programme we made it clear that a variety of different sources were shown, some from the Israeli Defence Force, some from the IHH and “culturesofresitance.org” and others from individuals who were onboard the Mavi Marmara on the night in question. The majority of the footage used in the programme is openly available on the internet.

All featured footage was meticulously double and cross checked to verify its accuracy; any footage of uncertain events during the raid was clearly labelled as such.

Viewers were shown a wide range of opinions and whenever a question of authenticity of footage arose, we made this clear.

We also spoke extensively to the groups and individuals involved in the incident including three Israeli commandos involved in the raid; the head of the IHH – Bulent Yildirim; the Free Gaza Coordinator on board the Mavi Marmara – Lubna Masarwa; three Turkish activists and activist Ken O’Keefe, who were on board the Mavi Marmara on the night in question. We also spoke to Hamas official Dr Ahmed Yousef in Gaza. They were all given sufficient time and a platform to make their points.

The programme made it clear that the flotilla was still in international waters, ninety miles from Gaza. The programme also made it clear that a number of inquiries are ongoing.

We believe the programme was balanced and impartial, going to great lengths to give opposing sides the opportunity to air their views.

We acknowledge the strength of your views regarding this matter, thanks again for taking the time to contact us.
Kind Regards
BBC Audience Services

Log in to Reply
Synwave says:
August 18, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Fiachra responded:

Dear BBC Audience Services,

I don’t believe you have read my letter. I will attach it again so that this time you do.
Your form response is as misleading as the Panorama “documentary”.

Below I quote and respond

1. “We understand the strength of feeling regarding the Israeli Defence Force’s operation against the Mavi Marmara on 31 May 2010. We recognise the complexity of the subject…”

IDF’s Sky Winds and Sea Breeze operations were violent attacks on seven boats in international waters, not just the Mavi Marmara. These boats were U.S., Turkish, Greek and Cambodian registered. Why is there no mention of that. This isn’t complex AT ALL. IDF came in the middle of the night and murdered 9 men on their own vessel while in international waters, but they attacked all 650+ of us with violence. There ordered to use this violence. Check the facts BBC.

2.”Israel has been accused of breaking international law by seizing a Turkish ship.”

What? Is this really the BBC? No, Israel broke international law by attacking, boarding seven ships (US, Turkish, Greek and Cambodian) in international waters and kidnapping us, assaulting, denying us to our legal rights and stealing some of our passports. These are the facts.

3. “Israel says the protesters were terrorists.” Really, Israel say a lot of things, in fact they say whatever suits them in whatever situation they find themselves. Please see in this video Israeli Deputy Ambassador, Ruth Zack. She has stated the exact opposite and said that Israel does not consider us to be terrorists or Hamas sympathizer when she was tripped up on her propanganda. Israel is the aggressor, remember that BBC, please.
I was one of the protesters and as far as I know Israel hasn’t been stupid enough to accuse me of being a terrorist. Zack could not meet my mothers eyes while this programme was being made.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What planet is the BBC on? Please note that they also attacked the MV Rachel Corrie in international waters 5 days later, even though the Deputy Ambassador said they wouldn’t. Why would you believe anything that comes from this Israeli Government?

4. “Jane Corbin is a world renowned journalist with twenty years’ experience reporting for ‘Panorama’ and the on-going conflict in the Middle East. She is respected for her dedicated, impartial and balanced work on both sides of the conflict and approached this subject with the same level of fairness which she is known for.”

Jane Corbin is married to one of the Defense Secretary’s movers and shakers and is obviously pro-Israel. She also claims to have been the first person to know that Osama Bin Laden was behind the attack on Twin Towers. I think that if Homeland Security were doing their job properly, she should have been one of the first to be interviewed in Guantanamo Bay to find out what else she and her Israeli government friends know. She’s obviously more political than an “impartial and balanced journalist” and denying this further harms the BBC’s already critically damaged credibility.
What are her views on the death of David Kelly I wonder? Would she be available for interview for my documentary?
She did not “uncover” new evidence from both sides, she was given access to certain stolen footage (without the consent of the owners0 by the same IDF that was put in charge of kidnapping and murdering people. I believe this is theft of intellectual property. Something I understand the BBC and the IDF will both be sued for very soon.

6. “We can assure you that enormous care was involved in selecting the footage we showed.”
This is exactly what concerns us and we want to know your modus operandi in doing so.

7. “We also spoke extensively to the groups and individuals involved in the incident including three Israeli commandos involved in the raid; the head of the IHH – Bulent Yildirim; the Free Gaza Coordinator on board the Mavi Marmara – Lubna Masarwa; three Turkish activists and activist Ken O’Keefe, who were on board the Mavi Marmara on the night in question. We also spoke to Hamas official Dr Ahmed Yousef in Gaza. They were all given sufficient time and a platform to make their points.”

You did this, but you (so very obviously) sliced and diced all the footage to give an unfaithful representation of events while ignoring the blatant facts. Did you show the wounds of the dead and injured from the flotilla as you did with the assassins?

8. “We believe the programme was balanced and impartial, going to great lengths to give opposing sides the opportunity to air their views.
We acknowledge the strength of your views regarding this matter, thanks again for taking the time to contact us.”

Of course you think that, it’s patently obvious that the BBC is deluding itself and beginning to believe its own lies, just as Israel does. I don’t want you to thank you for taking the time to contact you. That is just patronising. I want to know to whom should we make out the affidavits. Or what does the BBC propose to rectify the situation?

[NoFuleMe]

Anther piece of Panorama backstory

Perhaps some of you readers here at jillhavern may be smelling a few rats by now ref Panorama?

BBC Panorama’s Jane Corbin’s husband is John Cradock Maples, former MP & President of the Conservative Friends of Israel


I was watching last night’s BBC Panorama titled “Living with the Ayatollah”, where presenter Jane Corbin produced a piece of propaganda that was anti Iran & Press TV from the get go.

I’ve written extensively about Panorama’s programming and as you can see, their is now a track record of biased, one sided propaganda on the part of the BBC, so much for a public broadcaster that prides itself on it’s investigative journalism and even handed approach.

In August 2010, Jane Corbin was the presenter and interviewer for “Death in the Med”, a program that whitewashed the Israel attack and killing on the MV Marmara. This program drew much criticism for its propagandistic nature and for its duplicitous and dishonest way of dealing with the interviewees, namely Ken O’Keefe.

Is seems to be the exclusive remit of Jane Corbin to have an anti-Muslim tint to everything she says.

One cannot help but wonder if Jane Corbin’s husband, John Cradock Maples, now Lord Maples, is a former member of parliament, who was one of the 50 top influential right wingers in the country and served as the president of Conservative Friends of Israel.

Has Lord Maples and his Israeli affiliations brought any pressure to bear on how his wife approaches the making of publicly funded, yet appallingly unbalanced, BBC documentaries?

[NoFuleMe]

One more piece and I shall cease and desist

I say again

When you have Panorama bigging up anything

Behind it will lie an abba tour of putrid excrement

No joke, alas

And the McCann disgrace just put out carries on their fine dastardly tradition


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[bristow]

From The Mail,

Five years on, the pivotal questions

Is she alive?
There have been no confirmed sightings of Madeleine McCann since she disappeared on May 3, 2007.
The original Portuguese police team believed she died in a ‘tragic accident’.
Kate
and Gerry McCann have always insisted there is no evidence to suggest
she is dead, and British police now believe ‘there is a possibility she
is alive’.

Where is she?

There have been reported sightings all round the world, ranging from the credible to bizarre psychic visions.
Of those investigated, none have been confirmed as Madeleine.

Who is responsible?

Three
people were officially named as arguidos, or suspects, in the
investigation - Kate and Gerry McCann and British expat Robert Murat.
All
three were formally cleared when the investigation was shelved and have
won libel cases against newspapers and broadcasters which falsely
claimed they were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
The McCanns believe Madeleine was taken by an abductor.
Convicted
paedophile Raymond Hewlett allegedly said he saw the girl twice before
she vanished and claimed she was stolen to order by a gypsy gang, but
denied he was involved.
He died in 2010.

Are there new leads?

British
police have identified almost 200 new lines of investigation from the
Portuguese case files and the McCanns’ own private detectives.
They have refused to reveal details.

Why was this not done before?

Portuguese
officers were convinced Madeleine was dead and have admitted publicly
that they did not fully investigate other theories, including many of
the sightings.

What else was missed?

Police
did not set up effective searches and did not alert the Spanish border
for 12 hours, allowing a potential abductor to escape with Madeleine
undetected.
Even a basic
check of the other guests at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz was
not completed for 48 hours, by which time many potential witnesses had
left.

What about forensic evidence?

Police
did not seal off the McCanns’ apartment until 10am the next day, by
which time the McCanns, their friends, resort staff, concerned helpers
and police officers had all potentially contaminated forensic evidence.
Samples
were taken and tested for blood and DNA but were found to be so
degraded and contaminated that the results were inconclusive.

Will the case be solved?

British
police want the case reopened but public opinion in Portugal has not
been supportive of the McCanns and there may be little interest in
raking over a five-year mystery which has already damaged the country’s
tourist industry.
Even if
the case is reopened, the reality remains that blunders in the first few
days after Madeleine’s disappearance may mean the McCanns will never
know what happened to their daughter.

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[bristow]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

I agree PeterMac, after feeling very downhearted earlier, I think the Panorama will have opened the eyes of a lot of people and will whet their interest in the case, which could lead to more people trying to find the truth in the matter.
I actually think the programme was 50/50, much better than I had hoped.

[Zozo]

So much for the commentators (you know who you are) that thought that SY would do a Sherlock Holmes job!

What a laugh!

This has been on the cards all along, because the UK is totally and utterly corrupt at the highest levels

Cameroon, SY, the whole sorry lot of them

Also at the top in Portugal, Freemasons are running the show in close collusion with their depraved satanic murdering brothers in the UK

There have already been several obvious murders in this case as those considered to have loose lips have been whacked

Amaral said a while back that he thought the only logical conclusion would be a politically expedient one that let the elite in both countries off Scott Free

I have been watching Panorama all my life

Decades

It is a cess pit propaganda arm of Tavistock and mi5

It is blatant lying social conditioning

You cannot trust a damn sentence in any Tavistock production called Panorama

ALL THEIR SHOWS SERVE THE ELITE

Every single one

Tomatoes said he she was giving up

I feel the same

It will take a miracle for the culprits to be identified and spend their lives in jail

This goes right to the very very top who are blatantly and cynically protecting the mccanns

Someone in the know

Maybe one of the tapas 12

Needs to grow a conscience and do a wikileaks

Go public in such a way that the evil filth would not dare to try and kill them

If it were me, if I KNEW what happened

I couldn't live with myself if I did not speak up and put away the murders and their aiders and abettors

Well said Nofuleme!!!!

A pure whitewash ever in british history!!! Disgracefull.

I'm wondering how long the british public will continue to accept to swallow this nonsenses and lies, and cover up about this case, which is costing millions the british tax payers.

This is becoming those criminal cases which gets resolved after hundred years later or more, the time all of those who were involved are no longer alive.

[flaxyard]

having watched the programme late i had a chance to read all the posts straight after. Afer the initial kneejerk reaction, I noted Petermac's 8.15 post which sticks out as the standout post of the evening. All is far from lost....

[NoFuleMe]

having watched the programme late i had a chance to read all the posts straight after. Afer the initial kneejerk reaction, I noted Petermac's 8.15 post which sticks out as the standout post of the evening. All is far from lost....

Petermac is a copper.

[John In Algarve]

I noticed that Panorama refered to "Sniffer dogs" "detecting DNA" which was "inconclusive". Which is a lot different from the fact that these british "Human Cadaver" detecting dogs, which have NEVER been wrong, detected human cadaver smell under the window and in the hire car, which was hired 6 weeks after Madelein was reported missing - the one that drove 3000 kilometers in 3 days "looking for Madeleine" (The distance to the north coast of France and back to the Algarve). This led the Portuguese Police to conclude that Madeleine may have fallen over the back of the chair under the window. The body concealed (The priest didn't allow police to search the church the McCann's had a key for -he can't be questioned, he has disappeared!) and then transported in the hire car! The explanation for the smell of cadavas was explained by Kate McCann taking on holiday the clothes she wore when prononouncing people dead when working as a GP in the UK. Also, the Police concluded that Madeleine was likely drugged using the injectable sedatives Kate took on holiday -which she says she used on herself to help her sleep, and when asked why there were so many empty ones, more than could be accounted for for "personal use" she said she must have taken empty ones with her by mistake!
Sorry to go on so much, but living here in the Algarve, you get to hear much more than is reported in the UK.

I wanted to feel sympathy for the McCann's, but after seeing where they left there children alone, and hearing directly from people at the hotel who reported that they went for walks down to the beach without the children (it took me 20 minutes from there apartment) at 7pm, they changed there hire car the day after reporting Madelein missing, Kate washed her favourite toy that day as well, and Gerry apparently played a tennise match the next day- very strange! Also, 3 children under 3 years old, and no push chair?
So the evidence that they are victims of a terrible crime is difficult to believe.

If we assume the terrible alternative senario, that a couple, who are doctors, go on holiday with a group of friends, want to have a relaxing evening without there children, give the children a mild sedative to ensure they sleep, but the eldest wakes up, tries to get out by climbing over the back of a chair under a window, breaking her neck,resulting in bleeding from her mouth and nose. The parents discover this terrible scene, so they will call the authorities, the autopsy would reveal the sedative, the other children would be tested and also found to have been sedated. The authorities, Social Services etc,
would then be very sympathetic, as would the General Medical Council, I'm sure. What would you do?

It must be good to have influential friends!

[NoFuleMe]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

I agree PeterMac, after feeling very downhearted earlier, I think the Panorama will have opened the eyes of a lot of people and will whet their interest in the case, which could lead to more people trying to find the truth in the matter.
I actually think the programme was 50/50, much better than I had hoped.

I find Petermac's comments both depressing and disturbing.

The average intelligence of a so-called worldwide audience for this panorama Tavistock mi5 confection is woefully low

As in, engineered to be so low via almost a hundred years of blatant conditioning

Mainly by the tee vee, educashunal brainwashing, diet et cetera

This was an EXPERTLY crafted

Pay attention to the word CRAFTED

CRAFTY

HOODWINK

Fairy tale foisted on the gullible

Peter is grasping at straws

Amaral was trashed

The dogz apparently found DNA but NO CADAVERINE DEATH SCENT

That abomination retard with barely one o level Alan chancer Johnson stuck his oar in saying the mccanns were shafted

This the disgraceful chancer that rubs up against an even worse predatory chancer portillo every night!

Who I believe is Portuguese but never utters a word about this debacle

Petermac, wipe the scales from your eyes and please recognise the masterful job the Tavistock mi5 panorama machine has pulled off

Yet again...

[NoFuleMe]

I noticed that Panorama refered to "Sniffer dogs" "detecting DNA" which was "inconclusive". Which is a lot different from the fact that these british "Human Cadaver" detecting dogs, which have NEVER been wrong, detected human cadaver smell under the window and in the hire car, which was hired 6 weeks after Madelein was reported missing - the one that drove 3000 kilometers in 3 days "looking for Madeleine" (The distance to the north coast of France and back to the Algarve). This led the Portuguese Police to conclude that Madeleine may have fallen over the back of the chair under the window. The body concealed (The priest didn't allow police to search the church the McCann's had a key for -he can't be questioned, he has disappeared!) and then transported in the hire car! The explanation for the smell of cadavas was explained by Kate McCann taking on holiday the clothes she wore when prononouncing people dead when working as a GP in the UK. Also, the Police concluded that Madeleine was likely drugged using the injectable sedatives Kate took on holiday -which she says she used on herself to help her sleep, and when asked why there were so many empty ones, more than could be accounted for for "personal use" she said she must have taken empty ones with her by mistake!
Sorry to go on so much, but living here in the Algarve, you get to hear much more than is reported in the UK.

I wanted to feel sympathy for the McCann's, but after seeing where they left there children alone, and hearing directly from people at the hotel who reported that they went for walks down to the beach without the children (it took me 20 minutes from there apartment) at 7pm, they changed there hire car the day after reporting Madelein missing, Kate washed her favourite toy that day as well, and Gerry apparently played a tennise match the next day- very strange! Also, 3 children under 3 years old, and no push chair?
So the evidence that they are victims of a terrible crime is difficult to believe.

If we assume the terrible alternative senario, that a couple, who are doctors, go on holiday with a group of friends, want to have a relaxing evening without there children, give the children a mild sedative to ensure they sleep, but the eldest wakes up, tries to get out by climbing over the back of a chair under a window, breaking her neck,resulting in bleeding from her mouth and nose. The parents discover this terrible scene, so they will call the authorities, the autopsy would reveal the sedative, the other children would be tested and also found to have been sedated. The authorities, Social Services etc,
would then be very sympathetic, as would the General Medical Council, I'm sure. What would you do?

It must be good to have influential friends!

Great post John!

Apparently thirty ODD compadres of petermacs old profession are too thick to figure it out

I fInd petermacs softly softly approach making excuses for andy redwood to be highly offensive

Yates and his health spa pal got huge

HUGE

Payoffs and pensions when caught out being corrupt

Remember it took Yates just one afternoon to announce that there was nothing to the hackgate story

Move along now

What vermin infest all our so called services

Yates' old freemason pals have landed him a plum job in Arabia turning THEIR thug corrupt police into mirror images of our own Orwellian blackshirts

Now is NOT the time to be giving SY and REDWOOD an easy time petermac

[NoFuleMe]

please lord how does this make sense from Inependent

Mr Redwood said "evidence that she is alive stems from the forensic view of the timeline" that there was the opportunity for her to be taken.

how does that work?

So the best Redwood can come up with as evidence for abduction is that it could have happened because the McCanns neglected to check on their children often enough? Remind me why they are not being prosecuted for neglect again?

Remember redwoods comments

All he wants is CLOSURE for the mccanns

So does g brown who today at the Leveson farrago was said by father Murdoch to be out of his mind

Unbalanced

When he said the uk government would make war against news international

This is the same paedophile g broon that started the McCann coverup to begin with

[Newintown]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

I agree PeterMac, after feeling very downhearted earlier, I think the Panorama will have opened the eyes of a lot of people and will whet their interest in the case, which could lead to more people trying to find the truth in the matter.
I actually think the programme was 50/50, much better than I had hoped.

I have to say I was shocked and disgusted after viewing the programme, I think PeterMac is being very naive. I wasn't completely concentrating on the programme as I was doing other things but I believe that is what most of the general public do when viewing TV, they only take in what is on the surface and do not go into any deep thinking as PeterMac believes they may do. What I saw of the dog video was a dog barking outside the car, which wouldn't mean much to the general public, especially when it was stated that DNA was found in the apartment and car. However, if it was stated that the dogs were Cadaver and blood detection dogs, that would have made everyone's ears prick up, but NO, that was kept under wraps, now, why would that be?????

Murat set up? The only bit I remember seeing of Murat was that he was dissing G Amaral

Murdoch's interference, shown to the World - I don't think many of the viewing public will even ponder on that

M word "MYSTERY", as the public have had "abduction" rammed down their throats for 5 years, I think the word MYSTERY will go over their heads.

As for Redwood saying he believes Madeleine is alive, you only have to read all of the comments on the DM website, they all seem to be of the opinion that Madeleine IS ALIVE AND FINDABLE merely from reading the headline. They are too stupid to even use their own brains and look into any other conclusion as to what may have happened to her.

In all I thought the programme was a shocking insult to the memory of Madeleine, however, the McCanns are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief that it was so biased in their favour.

[NoFuleMe]

On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

I agree PeterMac, after feeling very downhearted earlier, I think the Panorama will have opened the eyes of a lot of people and will whet their interest in the case, which could lead to more people trying to find the truth in the matter.
I actually think the programme was 50/50, much better than I had hoped.

I have to say I was shocked and disgusted after viewing the programme, I think PeterMac is being very naive. I wasn't completely concentrating on the programme as I was doing other things but I believe that is what most of the general public do when viewing TV, they only take in what is on the surface and do not go into any deep thinking as PeterMac believes they may do. What I saw of the dog video was a dog barking outside the car, which wouldn't mean much to the general public, especially when it was stated that DNA was found in the apartment and car. However, if it was stated that the dogs were Cadaver and blood detection dogs, that would have made everyone's ears prick up, but NO, that was kept under wraps, now, why would that be?????

Murat set up? The only bit I remember seeing of Murat was that he was dissing G Amaral

Murdoch's interference, shown to the World - I don't think many of the viewing public will even ponder on that

M word "MYSTERY", as the public have had "abduction" rammed down their throats for 5 years, I think the word MYSTERY will go over their heads.

As for Redwood saying he believes Madeleine is alive, you only have to read all of the comments on the DM website, they all seem to be of the opinion that Madeleine IS ALIVE AND FINDABLE merely from reading the headline. They are too stupid to even use their own brains and look into any other conclusion as to what may have happened to her.

In all I thought the programme was a shocking insult to the memory of Madeleine, however, the McCanns are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief that it was so biased in their favour.

Great post!

The panorama embedded spooks are EXPERTS IN TEE VEE PROPAGANDA

that is their job

They do it 24 by 7 by 52

They have unlimited resources

They collaborate with other spooks in other governments

But frankly they are all the same at the top working for one Orwellian goal

It is quite obvious to me that madaleine has been caught up in all this depraved barbaric madness

I pay taxes to employ redwood and his team of useless trainee traffic wardens

They are a lickspittle cowering bunch of gophers, clearly

Closure????

No mate!!!

PROSECUTION

GUILTY

but Cameroon and broon do not want the can of worms opened

Neither do the bbc
SY

And all the aiders and abettors

[NoFuleMe]

The whole thing was designed to slag off the Portuguese police, and to pretend only the Portuguese believed the parents were respeonsible for Madeleine's disappearance.



I cannot believe that Bilton, the hopeless patsy, said "Dogs found DNA in the apartment...." wilfully refusing to use the words "scent of a dead body."

The whole thing was so incredibly crass and clumsy.

Who is behind it?

Mi5 and buddies.

[NoFuleMe]

Well, that's the end of another McCann love-fest, same old, same old. Blame everyone except the poor, hard done by McCanns.

So they really are the Untouchables, it's official.

What annoys me are all the plants here and at mccanfiles bigging up the LP and SY

It was obvious from the start that this was a whitewash

Do some REAL digging and research into g broon and his proclivities

Investigate Cameroon and his antics

He was a gopher for thatcher in his twenties

Went to about to be toppled south Africa with a certain d Kelly to buy a few BOSS Israeli atom bombs before they went native, it is one HUGE cesspit and they can all implicate each other

One or three went missing, oops mr Cameroon!

Hence this coverup, this all goes very very deep and a lot is at stake for the culprits...

[NoFuleMe]

So

No 48 questions
No cadaver dogs
No conflicting statements
No dodgy text deletions
No dodgy fund 13% only of which spent on the search
No suing frenzy

What a waste of time then. Pooh.

Don't worry ex? Cop petermac's glass is

HALF FULL

IT WAS A ROARING SUCESS!

[NoFuleMe]

Well, that's the end of another McCann love-fest, same old, same old. Blame everyone except the poor, hard done by McCanns.

True, should have known really when the bold KM was on so early into the programme ,

Off topic :Can someone point me in the direction of the dogs evidence please ?

Sure

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And better

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[NoFuleMe]

God, the way Murat talked about the PJ. He was a suspect in the disappearance of a child for god's sake, what did he expect, tea and scones. The British police would be the same, and interogate for hours. Making a fuss of having a mug shot, Doh

I thought he looked terrible

Big old fat gut

Face full of warts

But apparently Gerry McCann doesn't know him, lol!

[NoFuleMe]

Without doubt the most shamelful dire peice of shite journalism ive ever seen, ever.

Its starts with Amaral segment saying "i made mistake"

then Robert Murat saying to the effect of Amaral is a bully! who wanted case solved quick!

They made out Murat was made suspect my GA not that the reporter and mccanns friends pointed finger in first place!

They rubbish dogs claims, saying dogs detected DNA!!!! no mention of the indication of Death and blood!!

It was completely Bias with segments of Redwood cut and edited to suit the responses to questions they asked! disgusting! reall really sloppy, bad journalism ! who is this reporter on the show! he looks like shit! tried to show him `researching` on a PC like "hey man im a proper investigative Journalist". What a complete Joke of a reporter!.

At least they stated the fact that the PJ are NOT changing there opinion on the case!, not mention of why that might be! just basically trying to make fun of the PJ!

I dont think this shockingly bad programme will go down well with the Portuguese Police at all!! I hope the new Porto team get chance to watch it! so, so bad its almost laughable!

Don't worry!!!

Our tame expert here is very happy to see this

SHOWN WORLDWIDE!

[NoFuleMe]

Alan Johnson started off by telling the grinning fool Bilton that the PJ investigation had been "dsigraceful".

So the stage was set for Redwood, Murat, Gomes, Duarte, even the so-called McCann doubter Sandra Fegueleres to make it seem as if the Portuguese police were all useless and/or corrupt and the Portuguese people had been sadly misled into believing in the guilt of the innocent-as-milk McCanns.

The dogs smelling cadaver odour was slimed over by Bilton: "the dogs found DNA in the flat and the car....next thing the parents were suspects."

Redwood was not at all impressive...another grinning fool who added absolutely nothing to the programme.

Cider quaffing yokel lickspittle waiting for his pension and ten years in " private security"

Probably with his mate Yates in arabi...

[NoFuleMe]

Have just calmed myself down having shouted at the TV for last half hour, wasn't expecting it tonight, thought it was next Monday.
The bit that made me really cross was when he said "let's look at the FACTS" and then launched into a list of clearly Mccann approved rubbish....the children were left alone, the shutters were forced, the children were checked on regularly Blah blah blah

Was a little more open than I expected and they even used the word "mystery" on several occasions (quick, someone sue them!!!)

Generally though I felt it was biased, but thought the age advanced photo was at least vaguely believable for a change.

Hope it at least makes a few believers consider the other side of the story......................

No chance

Anyone new to all this will just think the pj are uselessly incompetent

This is a pr triumph for team McCann

No question about it

The general public are a dumb lot

80 per cent are sheep, end of story

Redwood - WHAT a turnip

[NoFuleMe]

God, the way Murat talked about the PJ. He was a suspect in the disappearance of a child for god's sake, what did he expect, tea and scones. The British police would be the same, and interogate for hours. Making a fuss of having a mug shot, Doh

I was suprised at that too seeing as it was the British media that dobbed him and his own friends alledgedly and later three of the tapas group. But then again BBC can edit and use as they like, cant they? I have never ever heard him slagging odf the PJ before.

Expert selective editing

All anti McCann heroes taken out of context

I bet amaral's interview lasted several hours

We got I think two soundbites where he admitted faults

Typical panorama brainwashing

[NoFuleMe]

So

No 48 questions
No cadaver dogs
No conflicting statements
No dodgy text deletions
No dodgy fund 13% only of which spent on the search
No suing frenzy

What a waste of time then. Pooh.

Also ignoring impossibility of opening front window, doubtful witness of man carrying child, ignoring of Smith sighting and involvement of Tapas women in implicating Murat.

What brilliant detective work, DCI Redwood.

Yellowwood?

[NoFuleMe]

Total, total crap. Bad PJ, good SY. Of course perhaps this is the idea, SY has all the answers, but bad, bad PJ won't re-open the case. Very surprised at Sandra F's comments.

I think you will find they were expertly taken out of context.

You interview anyone for an hour or two and it is easy.

[NoFuleMe]

I cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away...........let's just hope that the discreet review they are carrying out WILL uncover enough to shut everyone up for good. DNA dogs inconclusive my a%^e...oh hello everyone, what about the cadaver scent...erm exactly whose scent was it then? What a waste of time, this was just a chance to make yet another programme with nothing new...not even one word one way or the other from DCI Redwood who appears to be starstruck getting to work on this case...honoured eh??? Poor Murat, the victim, who got a nice little fat cheque at the end of it if I am not mistaken. As if the police were going to treat him like a hotel guest, what the.... my blood is boiling and I wish I had not watched it. I need chocolate. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Murat got close to 400k

Yellowwood will have an easy life...

[NoFuleMe]

I didnt expect anything much from Panorama anyway, or any of its useless presenters, it did use to be a half decent programme, not any more. I do hope Mr Redwood knows what he is doing. I trust he is and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the perversion of the course of justice. Because that can on,y ever result in coming to bite you in the bum as they say.

Didn't stop Yates or any of thousands of bent coppers.

Yellowwood is the most unimpressive copper I have ever seen

Tugging his forelock at the honour of whitewashing this case

Hell be 33 in no time...

[NoFuleMe]

I cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away.........

I would think Goncalo Amaral and Sandra Felgueiras feel betrayed the way their comments were edited to fit the agenda.

Panorama are not stupid

They always make the patsies sign quotation releases

They never grant pre approval terms

Oy oy oy!

[NoFuleMe]

Petermac, there is nothing good to be taken from this terrible, propaganda-laden programme.

All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

Nothing about the Tapas mob, who tried to finger Amaral as kidnapper/murderer. But then, Murat has been paid off.

And maybe Panorama edited Sandra F badly, but even she seemed to be slagging off the Portuguese and the Portuguese police. Plus there was Isabel Duarte suffering for her art as all her friends "thought the McCanns had killed their daughter and got rid of her corpse." As if that thought was wildly far-fetched...

This was an incredibly cynical programme: I can imagine Cameron: "The plebs are getting pissed off about millions being spent on the McCann case, while we don't seem to care about Ben Needham (or any other missing child including that little girl in the German supermarket).

"Someone throw them a bone. Get that useless Bilton to slag off the Portuguese and get them riled up against Johnny Foreigner. That will shut them up while we spend a bit more whitewashing the Mccanns."

Utterly surgically accurate!