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Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 09.04.12 16:28

Thursday May 3rd

GM phone 07780 - After 88 hours of no calls, he takes a call from Leicester which lasts for only 12 seconds. Then nothing until after the alarm is raised. 4 calls.

KM phone 07903 - received 4 messages, all get deleted. After the alarm is raised, 2 calls

Kate’s phone receives a voicemail at 8.23 - gets deleted

Kate’s phone receives a voicemail at 8.24 - gets deleted

Fiona’s phone 0779 6272 - silent all day

Matt’s first activation on phone 0777 1591 456 is at 22.45

Rachel’s phone 0777 1591 461is used just the once

The twins Jellyfish records for AM have been withheld by the PJ.

Madeleine is signed in at 9.10 by Gerry, leaving his phone. Minutes elevated.

Elizabeth is signed in at 9.10 by Robert. Incorrect name entered and corrected.

Ella is signed in at 9.50 by Russell.

O’Brien’s phone activates at 10.52

Rachel gets a text at 11.33

Gerry’s takes an incoming call from Leicester at 12.24. It lasts for only 12 seconds.

The phone is then switched off for 10 hours, until after the alarm is raised.

Madeleine is signed out at 12.25 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Elizabeth is not signed out.

Ella is signed out at 12.30 by Russell.

Kate’s phone receives a voicemail at 12.31 - gets deleted

Kate’s phone receives a voicemail at 13.34 - gets deleted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AM and PM is separated by a squiggly line.

Ella is last in AM............................ first in PM.

Ella is signed in at 2.30 by Russell.

The twins are signed in at 14.45 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Kate leaves hers and Gerry’s mobile numbers.

For this day only the crèche sheet states Stacey & (Shinead) to 3 children.

Lucy Totman is signed into Jellyfish at 14.50. Minutes elevated.

Madeleine is signed in at 14.50 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Ella is signed out at 4.30 by ‘Cat nanny’.

The twins are signed out as 17.25 by Kate. Minutes elevated.

Lucy Totman is signed out at 17.30. Minutes elevated.

Madeleine is signed out at 17.30 by Kate.

Tanner’s sends a text at 20.30 to 0794973

At 22.00 hours approximately, Kate raises the alarm

This is courtesy of Stella research thread on the creche record.

According to the creche record, only 3 girls (Maddie included) were in the Lobster creche in the morning session, and only Maddie and Ella were there in the afternoon session.

Catriona Baker states that in the same room as Madeleine, there were 6 other children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon (including Madeleine).
How odd that Cat Baker said there were 7 children in the morning and 4 children in the afternoon. Surely creche sheet record doesn't lie!

Another thing - according to the record, Kate (her signature) was shown as having signed out the twins at 17.25 and Maddie at 17.30, so how come she said in her statement she'd sent Gerry to do it?

If Kate signed out the twins at 17.25 how could Jane have seen her jogging at the beach at 5.30?
Kate was reported seen by Janey jogging on the beach at 5.15 and 5.30 - not sure which timing is correct?






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Cat Baker's witness statement

Post by Ribisl on 09.04.12 22:58

It's got more holes than a tea strainer. nah
HiDeHo has a neat section on CB.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Creche-Records-Timeline/Catriona-Baker-1-800480.html

She describes what Kate was wearing but the rest of her statement about the late afternoon of the 3rd is too vague to be reliable.

Could she have been with the children having their tea rather than Gerry when Kate came to pick them up because Gerry had gone off to play tennis? There had been a lot of tension between Kate and Gerry after sleeping apart the night before, and if he was behaving so selfishly as to have left the children with the nanny and gone off again, you can imagine the kind of mood Kate must have been in when she picked up Madeleine.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 10.04.12 15:25

But how could kate be picking up the children and having tea with them at 5.30 when she was seen at that time jogging at the beach by Janey? It takes about 10 minutes to get from beach to tapas area if I am not wrong.

On top of that, who was left to play tennis with Gerry. All the other people in the group were at the beach, and Gerry was to join Men's Tennis at 6.00 pm which according to Kate she left before 6.00 from the apt.

What intrigues more is that the number of children in the creche related by CB did not tally with the creche record. Don't the other children have to be signed in? How could she get even the very basic thing wrong? 7 children vs 3 only is a great deal of difference.

We know kate and gerry propensity to lie but what was in for CB to lie?

If the creche register is never checked for tally, then it's practically a worthless piece of document for verification purposes.
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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 10.04.12 15:57

Mark Warner did not return Ms Baker to Portugal from Greece and she has since left the company. She is now a live-in nanny looking after three children. Her location is being withheld on the request of the McCanns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-487506/Revealed-The-nanny-help-clear-McCanns-name.html#ixzz1lzTzuS4Q

That article in the Daily mail was dated OCt 2007, before CB's visit to Rothley in Nov 2007.
So how come they knew about CB movement? Who had kept them informed? CB?
Why did they want CB's location kept secret? Shouldn't that be down to CB?
What were they doing interfering with witness?
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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 16:08

aiyoyo wrote:
Mark Warner did not return Ms Baker to Portugal from Greece and she has since left the company. She is now a live-in nanny looking after three children. Her location is being withheld on the request of the McCanns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-487506/Revealed-The-nanny-help-clear-McCanns-name.html#ixzz1lzTzuS4Q

That article in the Daily mail was dated OCt 2007, before CB's visit to Rothley in Nov 2007.
So how come they knew about CB movement? Who had kept them informed? CB?
Why did they want CB's location kept secret? Shouldn't that be down to CB?
What were they doing interfering with witness?

There was quite a lot of that going on. Kate insisting on speaking to a woman who lived near the church and worked in the OC. I think there's a video on that which show her SMS's to the woman, who did not want to speak to her at all!
BK spoke with the Smiths. Gerry visited Mrs. Fenn and so on and so forth.

Very interesting that the McCanns decided to keep her location secret? They must have kept in touch all along, imo. So what was in it for CB?
To have been a fly on the wall at that meeting!

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Ribisl on 10.04.12 20:35

aiyoyo wrote:
What intrigues more is that the number of children in the creche related by CB did not tally with the creche record. Don't the other children have to be signed in? How could she get even the very basic thing wrong? 7 children vs 3 only is a great deal of difference.

We know kate and gerry propensity to lie but what was in for CB to lie?

If the creche register is never checked for tally, then it's practically a worthless piece of document for verification purposes.

I agree with you. I don't believe their register was ever scrupulously kept. The impression one gets from the record is that the guests were dropping off their children whenever it suited them and picking them up likewise, and the staff never really checked who was signing them in or out.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Nina on 10.04.12 21:14

Ribisl wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
What intrigues more is that the number of children in the creche related by CB did not tally with the creche record. Don't the other children have to be signed in? How could she get even the very basic thing wrong? 7 children vs 3 only is a great deal of difference.

We know kate and gerry propensity to lie but what was in for CB to lie?

If the creche register is never checked for tally, then it's practically a worthless piece of document for verification purposes.

I agree with you. I don't believe their register was ever scrupulously kept. The impression one gets from the record is that the guests were dropping off their children whenever it suited them and picking them up likewise, and the staff never really checked who was signing them in or out.

And it begs the question, the supposed activities of beach, ice cream visit, the sailing, the swimming, how was this organized with such flexible starting and finishing times. And maybe a stupid question, but who dried wet feet and talced between toes on the beach, and took a little girl for a toilet break?

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.04.12 7:32

Nina wrote:
Ribisl wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:
What intrigues more is that the number of children in the creche related by CB did not tally with the creche record. Don't the other children have to be signed in? How could she get even the very basic thing wrong? 7 children vs 3 only is a great deal of difference.

We know kate and gerry propensity to lie but what was in for CB to lie?

If the creche register is never checked for tally, then it's practically a worthless piece of document for verification purposes.

I agree with you. I don't believe their register was ever scrupulously kept. The impression one gets from the record is that the guests were dropping off their children whenever it suited them and picking them up likewise, and the staff never really checked who was signing them in or out.

And it begs the question, the supposed activities of beach, ice cream visit, the sailing, the swimming, how was this organized with such flexible starting and finishing times. And maybe a stupid question, but who dried wet feet and talced between toes on the beach, and took a little girl for a toilet break?
Surely with one fell swoop we can be extremely unsure about any of the creche sheets and nanny statements - ie was Madeleine ever at creche at all?

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Ribisl on 11.04.12 10:13

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Surely with one fell swoop we can be extremely unsure about any of the creche sheets and nanny statements - ie was Madeleine ever at creche at all?

That's an almighty leap in deductive reasoning Rote Beete nah

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.04.12 10:37

Ribisl wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Surely with one fell swoop we can be extremely unsure about any of the creche sheets and nanny statements - ie was Madeleine ever at creche at all?

That's an almighty leap in deductive reasoning Rote Beete
Not at all, oh Messr Redcurrant! (And he's not a beetroot - got that?! Lol Wink)

I just think, knowing that having just two kids of my own but sometimes being in the presence of many, there's a hell of a difference between 3 children and 7! If she couldn't get that right, what did she get right? Don't even get me started on Charlotte 'Tinkerbell' Pennington...
There is, I think, something very very wrong with the nannies and creche records - I have a theoretical theory, but its sketchy and half-baked - will try and get it down in a logical (ha, me?) order in a while.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 11.04.12 10:42

What is even more crucial for investigators to clarify than the creche sheet record is CB continued liaison with the mccanns.

The Police need to find out how come CB was invited to the Orchard Mansion for "tea and scones" and how come the mccanns knew all about her movements. If strange enough that all the creche nannies were redeployed right after Maddie's disappearance, its weirder someone (if not CB herself) saw fit to keep the mccanns abreast of CB's movement.

The Tabloid reported CB's a witness who can clear suspicions on the mccanns.
I cant see how that works, because Maddie was "not taken" under the watch of CB, but under the watch of her parents.

Besides, CB gibberish in the papers does not make sense at all.
Question is: was she paid by the Papers to put out those gibberish, meaning was she getting herself in the limelight for the sake of it and earning a quick few bob at the same time, or was she put up to it?
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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.04.12 12:23

aiyoyo wrote:What is even more crucial for investigators to clarify than the creche sheet record is CB continued liaison with the mccanns.

The Police need to find out how come CB was invited to the Orchard Mansion for "tea and scones" and how come the mccanns knew all about her movements. If strange enough that all the creche nannies were redeployed right after Maddie's disappearance, its weirder someone (if not CB herself) saw fit to keep the mccanns abreast of CB's movement.

The Tabloid reported CB's a witness who can clear suspicions on the mccanns.
I cant see how that works, because Maddie was "not taken" under the watch of CB, but under the watch of her parents.


Besides, CB gibberish in the papers does not make sense at all.
Question is: was she paid by the Papers to put out those gibberish, meaning was she getting herself in the limelight for the sake of it and earning a quick few bob at the same time, or was she put up to it
How sure of that are we, really? (Bit in red). Could she indeed have 'been taken' under the watch of CB, or another nanny?...
After all, as you say, how odd to ship out possibly vital witnesses within days, when realistically the PJ could've needed to speak to them again at any time (or was that why...?)
So many possibilities.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 11.04.12 15:53

Unless the girl she nannied bore a good likeness to the posters distributed in the first days, I cannot see how CB can be taken at her word. She of all people there, should have had doubts.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 11.04.12 16:10

tigger wrote:Unless the girl she nannied bore a good likeness to the posters distributed in the first days, I cannot see how CB can be taken at her word. She of all people there, should have had doubts.

But my point is : It would be interesting to know how come she ended up visiting Orchard House? At whose initiation?

She was supposed to be a witness and by then the mccanns were already arguido. Surely her meeting with mccanns at mccanns residence breaches judicial secrecy, like just the meeting of the other witnesses (T7) with the mccanns at the Rothley Court Hotel is in breach of the judicial secrecy.

And the weird coincidence is after her meeting with mccanns in Nov 2007, she was re interviewed in April 2008, where she made a few changes to her earlier statements.

If her statement does not tally with creche record, that in itself is suspicious.
She may not have been diligent or conscientious with her work, but to then go and have a chin wag with the suspects puts her credibility at risk, or worsens her credibility.

It could be looked on in so many ways. As in it could be seen as if they were up to something no good, or if not that, she could be easily influenced to a certain way, if she'd been shoddy with her work and didn't want to be found out.

Either way, I find is so suspicious. Since she didnt know the mccanns before, why did she suddenly get so personal by visiting the mccanns?



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Catriona Baker statement

Post by Ribisl on 12.04.12 0:45

Processo Volume IV, pages 870 to 872

REPORT OF EXTERNAL DILIGENCE

Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector

Description and result of diligence

On the day Madeleine disappeared Ms Baker had spent nearly six hours with the toddler, along with five other children aged between three and five. Two of those are believed to have been the children of the McCanns' friends, David and Fiona Payne.

Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, were placed in the resort's Kids Club, where Ms Baker worked, at around 10am while their parents took a stroll before collecting them at 12.30pm for lunch back at the apartment.

In the afternoon, the McCanns played tennis while Madeleine went back to her nanny at the children's club, who gave her tea at 5.30pm. Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were picked up by their parents at 6pm.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA.htm


This is different from Kate's version which states
I had finished my run by five-thirty at the Tapas area, where I found Madeleine and the twins already having their tea with Gerry.

So CB was with Madeleine while she had her tea before Kate (with Gerry according Kate or without Gerry according to CB) picked her up. This was also when Madeleine was so pale and tired she had to be carried back to the apartment according to Kate, but CB does not mention anything unusual about her.

I believe CB's first statement to the PJ is far more reliable - fresher memory, no interference yet from TM.

Kate 'felt fleetingly disappointed that we hadn't known they (the rest of the holiday group) were all heading for the beach, as it might have been nice to have joined them, especially for the kids (afterthought?).' If she then found Gerry missing despite having agreed to pick up the kids from the creche, she wouldn't have been the happiest bunny around imo.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 12.04.12 2:46

[quote="Ribisl"]
Processo Volume IV, pages 870 to 872

REPORT OF EXTERNAL DILIGENCE

Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector

Description and result of diligence

On the day Madeleine disappeared Ms Baker had spent nearly six hours with the toddler, along with five other children aged between three and five. Two of those are believed to have been the children of the McCanns' friends, David and Fiona Payne.

Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, were placed in the resort's Kids Club, where Ms Baker worked, at around 10am while their parents took a stroll before collecting them at 12.30pm for lunch back at the apartment.

In the afternoon, the McCanns played tennis while Madeleine went back to her nanny at the children's club, who gave her tea at 5.30pm. Madeleine, Sean and Amelie were picked up by their parents at 6pm.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA.htm


This is different from Kate's version which states
I had finished my run by five-thirty at the Tapas area, where I found Madeleine and the twins already having their tea with Gerry.


So very confusing, so who is right?

Kate said Gerry collected the children on 3/5. Creche record shows Kate, and NOT gerry as having signed out the children.

Kate signature at the creche of 5.30pm clashes with the time she was reportedly seen jogging at the beach.

CB said she had tea with Madeleine at 5.30 and the twins were collected by the parents at 6.00.
But the cook said s/he saw Madeleine having tea with her parents and the children as usual just like any other day.
If CB was having tea with Madeleine at Tapas at 5.30, how did she know what time the mccanns picked up the twins that is one thing. Another thing is she wasnt in charge of the twins creche how would she know this info anyway?

Gerry said together with Kate they bathed the children, then Kate said Gerry left just before 6.00 to join men's tennis, meaning bath time with the children must have been between 5.40- the time he left for men's tennis. According to CB the twins were picked up at 6.00 pm by their parents so how could the twins already be having bath in the Apt before that time?









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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Ribisl on 12.04.12 6:57

Aiyoyo, yes it is very confusing, but I think we need to weigh each statement and determine which ones are likely to be closer to the truth and try to build the whole scenario based on those. Imo the Mccanns are not at all reliable because they have changed their version of facts so many times and they also have most to lose. I have chosen CB's statement from her first interview before she saw the Mccanns at their house because I believe she had no reason to lie at the time. If we do that, we might get a timeline of the 3rd with some gaps but at least not so contradicting as if we were to bring in the Mccanns' version of events into account.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 12.04.12 7:27

I've lifted this from 'Witnesses who were visited by the McCanns' -
I will have a look to find where Dr. Roberts says this and get back to you.

quote:
I believe at least two of the nannies were invited to stay at Rothley - as Dr Roberts points out, these two later gave the McCanns much firmer alibis - also one of them was an actress for a year or so in an NZ tv soap, be interesting if this was during the McCanns time out there

The Smith family have been so spooked by McCann pesterers that they have never been back to Portugal since their brief PJ statement visit...


Even Clarrie tried to intimidate Goncalo by saying 'take care' unquote.

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May not be relevant

Post by Guest on 12.04.12 11:08

Thinking of the creche records and the signings, its been suggested that someone else signed for Kate or / and Gerry..

In the statement from Matthew Oldfield, on the 4th may interview he calls Kate for Kate Healy.. In the interview done the 10th may he calls her Kate Mccann. This may not mean anything, and can also be a translation error ofcourse. Just found it strange, because why would he "change" her name just because the media did ? As in the chreche records she is signed in as Healy sometimes and Mccann at other times, even thougt Kate shouted loud about it in her beewk that she never called her self Kate Mccann...

In the same interview he also states that JT has been to Portugal / PDL for several occasions for professional reasons, and also been there with ROB..

( please remove to other topic admin if it fits better elsewhere)
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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Guest on 12.04.12 11:52

Interesting about CB, in the dispatches programme she says the last time she saw the family was at lunch time she also says in interviews with the media she was in the apartment 5a 5 minutes after Madeleine went missing, and the twins were not there...........


A closer look at Charlotte Pennington


Nigel Moore
31 January 2008

Charlotte Pennington, who was employed as a nanny at the Mark Warner Ocean Club at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, would appear to be blessed with an uncanny knack of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Although, from Kate and Gerry McCanns' perspective, it could be said that the opposite is true. As if by magic, Pennington appears with a 'sighting' at just the right time to support the McCanns' theories on what happened that fateful night of May 3rd.

The fact that she claims to have worked as a fairy since the age of 14 may go some way to explaining her remarkable abilities.

So, what did she see?

She says was there with Madeleine at the kid's club on 03 May 2007, the day of Maddie's disappearance. Thus providing herself as an 'independent' witness to the fact that Madeleine was still alive on 03 May 2007.

She was there, inside the McCanns' apartment, within five minutes of the alarm being raised, and claims to have witnessed both Kate McCanns' emotional state and the words spoken. Thus supporting the belief that this was the time of the abduction and that Kate could not have acted that amount of grief.

She was there to see Robert Murat hanging around the Ocean Club. Thus supporting the McCanns', particularly Kate's, desire to imply that Murat was involved in some way. It was reported, on 27 January 2008, that they believe he may have acted as a 'look-out' for a gang of paedophiles.

She was there to see Robert Murat speaking with a suspicious looking man, the following day at the local supermarket, who now appears to match the description and artist's impression produced for Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'. Thus further connecting Murat with an 'abduction'.

And, finally, she was there to see a suspicious man kicking something in a boat, 2 days after Madeleine's disappearance. Thus supporting one of the McCanns' theories that the abductor escaped by water - probably to Morocco.

But do Charlotte Pennington's crucial testimonies stand up to scrutiny? Unfortunately, like a great deal of this case, they are riddled with inconsistencies.

Pennington, who also works as a part-time actress - having briefly played the part of Libby Bailey in the New Zealand soap 'Shortland Street' - would be familiar with the need to arrive on cue.

But then, as we all know, sometimes actors get their lines wrong...

Time with Madeleine on 03 May 2007

The Daily Mail published details of an interview with Miss Pennington on 25 September 2007, in which she dismissed claims that the McCanns were not seen for six hours leading up to Madeleine's disappearance.
She said: "I was helping give the children high tea. The twins were there and Madeleine and both parents."

It was supposed to finish at 5.30pm but because they were a big group and really social, it didn't finish until about 6pm. There was nothing out of the ordinary at all."

However, speaking on the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary 'Searching For Madeleine', aired on 18 October 2007, she says:

"On May the third, it was just Madeleine I was reading a story to. I later saw them around lunchtime. That's the last time I saw them together as a family."



So, which is true? Did she last see Madeleine and the McCanns at 6.00pm or at lunchtime? And why the discrepancy?

The Daily Mail report of 14 October 2007, reporting on Madeleine's movements at the kid's club, only mentions nanny Catriona Baker being with her that day. The report states that Maddie was placed in a small group of children between the ages of 3 and 5 years with Miss Baker.

Charlotte Pennington was employed as a nanny in the Ocean Club resort's Baby Club, looking after children aged four to 12 months. So, why would she have been looking after Madeleine, who was not a member of her Baby Club, and reading her a story that particular day?

Pennington describes how she heard of Madeleine's disappearance from a woman who had come to collect her child from the evening creche, where she was working. The woman had recounted to her how she had just bumped into a man who had been shouting a name.

Pennington continues: "She didn't get the name, but she said it sounded something like 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie'. We automatically went into lost-child procedure. In these situations, the first thing we do is investigate the scene.

"We knew that one of the other nanny's charges was called Maddie. We told the head of department what had happened and she took us straight to the apartment.''

Here Miss Pennington clearly states that Madeleine was 'one of the other nanny's charges', referring to Catriona Baker. Yet she says in her two previous statements that she was with Madeleine that day. If that was true, why didn't she automatically make the connection that this was 'Maddie', the girl she had read a story to that very day and had been with until 6.00pm when the McCanns arrived to collect her and the twins?

In the Dispatches documentary, Pennington says: ''They were a very social group and they seemed all to be really respectful, nice, loving parents. Madeleine, I found out to be, quite bright... errm, quite shy... errm, very sweet, very beautiful girl.''

The statement suggests an intimate knowledge of the McCanns and, more specifically, Madeleine. Yet, it appears, Pennington was unable to connect the names 'Abbey, Gabby or Maddie' to herself and Madeleine.

This would seem to imply that Pennington never actually had charge of Madeleine on any day and, therefore, did not know her at all, apart from her name being connected to the charge of another nanny.

So where does her intimate knowledge of Madeleine's personality come from?

And why is she making strong implications that Madeleine was in her charge when she clearly wasn't?

The moments after Madeleine disappeared

Talking from her mother's home in Leatherhead, Surrey, she told the Daily Mail: "I was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone. When we were coming out we saw Kate and she was screaming: 'They've taken her, they've taken her!'
"I was standing right in front of her outside the apartment's back door, in the alleyway. I was very close to her. It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. I was one of three Mark Warner staff who saw her shouting it. They have all given statements to the Portuguese police saying that."

In terms of the timeline, this is a very interesting quote. She says she was in the McCanns apartment ''less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone''.

She said previously that the woman who came to collect her child from the evening creche, from whom she first found out a child was missing, arrived just before 10.00pm.

So, by the time the woman reached the creche, according to Pennington's account, a chain of events had already taken place:

Kate had discovered Madeleine missing; she had searched the apartment herself; she had run to the tapas restaurant to raise the alarm with Gerry and their friends and she had returned to the apartment and waited for it to be thoroughly searched by Gerry and their friends.

There would then have been a passage of time before the man, presumably Gerry, had gone out into the streets shouting out Maddie's name (which incidentally, the McCanns have insisted they never called her - it was always 'Madeleine').

And then, finally, there would have been a pasage of time for the woman to arrive at the creche, collect her child and then tell the staff what she had heard outside.

That whole process would surely have taken longer than five minutes to complete, and finish, before 10.00pm. Pennington's statement suggests the alarm was actually raised sometime well before 10:00pm, but this would then have major repercussions on the McCanns stated timeline. Indeed, it would make the raising of the alarm at 9:30pm, as was stated in some early reports, seem much more likely.

Pennington's account of entering and leaving the apartment is also confusing in relation to her position and Kate's. She says at first that ''When we were coming out (of the apartment) we saw Kate and she was screaming 'They've taken her'.'' This seems odd because it appears to imply that Kate was outside the apartment - possibly just outside the patio doors. But why was Kate outside the apartment screaming 'They've taken her' when everyone else was inside?

Pennington continues: ''I was standing right in front of her outside the apartment's back door, in the alleyway. I was very close to her. It might not have been the first thing she said. But she definitely said it. I was one of three Mark Warner staff who saw her shouting it.''

So where was Pennington when Kate was screaming? Was she just coming out of the apartment and presumably beside Kate or was she standing in the alleyway with three other members of the Mark Warner staff?

Pennington's account on the Dispatches documentary does not make it any clearer. She says: ''I went straight round to the apartment. I sort of walked in, did a quick scan around and been told 'No, no, she's not here, she's not here'.

''Kate McCann was outside and she was very distressed. She was saying things like 'They've taken her' and 'She's gone' and 'Where is she? Where is she?'.''

One wonders, by this time, to whom Kate was talking, or screaming.

And for who's benefit.

But there is one more crucial sentence from Miss Pennington that poses a huge and shocking question mark over our understanding of the events of that evening.

She says: "There were no children in the room. The twins had been taken out already, I think by one of the McCanns' friends.''

Remember, Pennington ''was in the apartment less than five minutes after they found that Madeleine had gone.''

So where were the twins?

By 10:50pm, we know the twins were back in their cots as the first local GNR police officers attending the scene remarked on how strange it was that the twins did not wake during all the commotion and screaming.

So, it begs the question: Why were the twins not there when Pennington arrived in the apartment?

If Pennington's statement is correct, then it leaves three possible scenarios:

1) The twins were moved out of the apartment, in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance, and then returned to their cots later. If so, why were they removed? And where did they go and who moved them?

2) The twins were moved prior to Kate's alarm call, perhaps because they wanted to clean the bedroom and were then returned to the McCanns' apartment before the GNR arrived? If this were true, where did they go and who moved them?

3) The twins were never put to bed in the McCanns' apartment that night. They either regularly slept elsewhere on the holiday or they slept elsewhere on that particular night and were transferred back before the GNR arrived. But why would they be sleeping elsewhere? And again, where did they go and who moved them?

If the twins were not in the apartment, this would certainly explain Kate's decision to run back to the tapas restaurant, apparently abandoning the twins alone in the unlocked apartment.

However, if Pennington's statement is correct, and we are to believe the twins were moved in this way, then it would now seem even more extraordinary that the twins did not wake.

And the implication of that appears to be obvious.

Sighting of Robert Murat

Miss Pennington's Daily Mail interview confirms reports from the McCanns' friends that Murat was at the scene. "He was outside the lobby just before we started on our big search," she said.

"He was adamant that he wasn't there. But he was. He was there in the road, he was just looking. It was about 10.30. He was just watching.

"I didn't know his name then. But the next day he was our interpreter and I met him then. He didn't take part in the searches, but he was there."

It is difficult to understand how Pennington can so clearly identify Robert Murat - a man she admits she did not know previously - in a chaotic scene where, by all accounts, there were people all over the place. A 'big search' implies there were lots of people there and this was night time, under street lamps that do not appear to be very powerful.

Can she really be sure this was Murat and not David Payne? The Payne's reportedly left their two children in the kid's club, with Madeleine and the twins, under the charge of Catriona Baker. So, it is quite likely that Pennington had never met David Payne previously either.

The Sun further confuses the account when it reports: 'Charlotte said she saw him (Murat) near the McCanns’ holiday flat at around midnight. Yesterday it was claimed police used Murat as a translator — giving him access to the crime scene — as he was a long-time informant.'

This account, which does not come with a direct quote, does, however, appear to be sourced directly from Miss Pennington. Yet, it clearly contradicts her previous statement that she saw Murat at 10:30pm, in the street outside the lobby, just before they were about to launch their 'big search'.

So, where did Pennington see Murat? Outside the McCanns apartment at midnight or outside the lobby at 10:30pm?

The two diverse accounts surely cast a major doubt over Pennington's testimony.

Murat, the suspicious looking man and 'Creepyman'

A few days after Madeleine's disappearance, Charlotte Pennington reported seeing Robert Murat chatting to a man outside the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz.

Initially, the sighting was used to further imply that Robert Murat was involved in some way. It was suggested that this man fitted the description given by Jane Tanner of a man she allegedly saw walking 'urgently' away from the McCanns' apartment on the night of 03 May 2007.

On 20 January 2007, the McCanns' released an artist's impression of a man Gail Cooper allegedly saw acting in a 'creepy' way during the weeks before the McCanns arrived in Praia da Luz. Suddenly, Pennington's 'sighting' was dug up, brushed off and represented to the public as a crucial piece of crucial, long-lost information.

In the space of 24 hours, the man who Murat was chatting to had suddenly been transformed from Jane Tanner's 'abductor' into Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'.

Firstly, the Daily Mail reports that: 'Charlotte Pennington, a nanny at the Ocean Club holiday complex where the McCanns were staying, told police last May she saw Murat chatting to "a man aged around 27 to 35, average height, very dark eyes and of Portuguese or Spanish appearance".


She told detectives she saw expat Murat, who lives with his mother near to holiday complex, talking to the man outside the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz.'

The following day, the Daily Mail makes a stronger connection when it reports that: 'Nanny Charlotte Pennington's description of a person she saw with Mr Murat also matches the man shown in the artist's impression.'

Later, The Sun, appearing to run a direct quote from Pennington, pushes the connection further, when it reports: 'And Charlotte Pennington, a nanny at the McCanns' holiday complex, says a suspicious man she saw in Praia da Luz was "similar" to the drawing.'

So, in what way is Pennington's sighting ''similar'' to the description and artist's impression of Gail Cooper's 'Creepyman'?

Pennington describes a man ''between 27 and 35, with medium build, very dark eyes and a Portuguese or Spanish look''.

Cooper, in describing 'Creepyman', says: "This man was very unpleasant and creepy. I'd put his age at 38 to 45. He was very scruffy and had a 70s-style black Mexican moustache. He wasn't Portuguese—I think he was North African, either Tunisian or Moroccan."

So, in what possible way could these two men possibly be described as ''similar''?

From the two descriptions, they have absolutely nothing in common whatsoever.

Yet newspapers, or perhaps more pertinently Metodo 3, seem intent on connecting the two. Newspapers will run with it because it's a good angle and will sell papers, Metodo 3 because that is what they are being paid by the McCanns to do. They have an agenda.

And that agenda is to propagate the abduction theory to the exclusion of all others.

The sighting of the boatman

Two days after Madeleine's disappearance, Miss Pennington claims to have seen a mystery boatman kicking at something in the middle of the night.

Pennington said she spotted the man in a small dinghy, just off the Praia da Luz seafront, kicking at an object stored in the boat's hull.

The Daily Mail continues: 'When she moved closer to investigate, the man - whose name she has given to Portuguese and British police - stooped out of sight then hurriedly rowed away. Miss Pennington said the man was wearing a reflective yellow jacket with a hood but she could not make out his face.'

So, what are the concerns here?

Firstly, the report says Pennington spotted the man in a 'small dinghy'. However, the very next sentence describes a 'boat' which was apparently big enough to store a reasonable size object in its hull.

Secondly, one wonders why a person, who it is implied may have had Madeleine stored alive, or dead, in a box in his dinghy/boat, would choose to wear a bright yellow, reflective fisherman's jacket.

Thirdly, the sighting took place 'in the middle of the night' when the seafront is pitch black. Those people searching for Madeleine, on the night of 03 May 2007, have described how they could only see as far as their torches shone and it was actually quite a frightening experience.

So, how could Pennington see anything, let alone a man apparently some distance away that she had to move closer to try and see.

And what was Pennington doing in the middle of the night, in the pitch black on the seafront? Did she have a torch?

Fourthly, Pennington admits she did not see the man's face and that he stooped down and quickly rowed away. So, how could she possibly know who he was, in order to give his name to the police?

The first published reports of the sighting claimed that Pennington was shocked to see the man again the next day, still wearing his bright yellow, reflective fisherman's jacket. She claims that she recognised the man as someone 'whom she had come to know over the preceding week'. But how? How can she recognise and name a man just from a jacket, seen from distance, in the pitch dark?

It should be remembered that Praia da Luz is a small fishing village and the sight of a fisherman's jacket, in such a setting, would surely not be unusual. In fact, it would be a surprise if it wasn't commonplace.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html


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Charlotte Pennington witness statement

Post by Ribisl on 12.04.12 13:28

378 to 381 Witness statement of Charlotte Elizabeth Alice Pennington 2007.05.07

- Witness states that on two different days, Sunday, 29th of April 2007, and on Thursday, 03rd of May 2007, she had direct contact with Madeleine McCann, telling her stories and speaking with her.
- Witness states that as she was an intelligent child, timid at first contact, and who later felt more comfortable, was a child who conversed normally for her age, and was of a calm demeanour. She adds that it was usual for Madeleine to be called "Maddy", as this is how she [Madeleine] presented herself to the witness;
- On the 3rd of May 2007, around 22H15, the witness was working during "dinner hour", together with her colleagues Jackie and Amy, when an unknown woman came to them indicating that she was a tourist lodged at the complex and asked them if they had heard about a disappearance of a child, whose name she referred to as "Maggie" or "Maddy";

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

No mention of being there when Madeleine and the twins had their tea.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by HiDeHo on 12.04.12 14:37

Not sure if I have already posted this thread from Remembering Madeleine forum but it may be helpful

Who Saw Madeleine - Credibility and Statement Highlights

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Discrepancies-by-Topic/Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html
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Catriona Baker statement

Post by Ribisl on 13.04.12 6:53

PJ Files Creche Records CB witness statement

On this day (3rd) the sailed in a small yellow catamaran.

Employee Alice Standley accompanied the children during this sailing trip. Three children at a time would travel with each infant educator.

Employee Chris Unswork transported the children, in a red amphibious dinghy, to the embarkation and a few minutes later, would return them to the beach and then pick up the remaining children.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CATRIONA-TREASA.htm

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Ribisl on 15.04.12 15:27

225 to 227 Witness statement of Stacey Portz 2007.05.06

- As part of her work she frequently takes the children for swimming, walks on the beach and to the garden [play area] next to the tennis courts.
- Knew the McCann family since 29th of April as they would drop off their toddlers, Sean and Amelie, in the Toddler Club;
- From 29 April until 3 May she was with those children every day.
- She also knew Madeleine as she would frequently come talk to her brother and sister when picked up by her parents;
- She never had Madeleine in her care.
- From what she was able to observe, Madeleine was an active and sociable child and that when with her siblings [at collection time] she was excited and happy to see them.

Going back to the 3rd, I have been going through PJ files and cannot find any witness who saw Madeleine after her tea with or without Gerry. Catriona Baker appears to be the last witness who saw her alive at around 5.30. This gives a window of just under five hours in which Madeleine 'disappeared'.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 15.04.12 17:14

That is what struck Amaral too and he asked the McCanns if they could substantiate their claim that she was in 5a from then on.

Enter David Payne - his testimony, shaky as it is with three different versions puts 'all three of the children' alive at around 7.00 p.m. He particularly stressed the 'threeness' see Dr. Roberts. I think this particular testimony didn't turn up until Amaral wanted more than the McCanns' word for it.

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