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How old were the twins in PDL?

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by russiandoll on 31.03.12 19:48


or

Mummy Daddy we saw Humpty Dumpty climbing in the window !

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Tinkerbell81 on 31.03.12 22:41

Madeleine was sent away for christmas??

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by uppatoffee on 31.03.12 22:49

@Tinkerbell81 wrote:Madeleine was sent away for christmas??

I'm not sure this has been confirmed. I think Granny Eileen said she stayed with her at Christmas one year, without making it clear whether the rest of the family were there or not. Perhaps someone has a definitive answer?
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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Guest on 31.03.12 23:07

It stems from this article in which Madeleine's grandmother is speaking about Madeleine, specifically. I take it to mean she went with her family and not on her own.........


"When I couldn't get to see her, I would speak to her on the phone."

One of those calls is particularly strong in Eileen's memory.

She said: "When she was two, Madeleine spent Christmas at my house and it was lovely.

"The next year, the family came up for New Year but on Christmas Day Madeleine called and said she'd got a kitchen from Santa. She was very excited and said 'I'm going to make some tea'."


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/2008/04/27/madeleine-mccann-s-gran-on-the-family-s-year-of-tears-78057-20395732/
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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Genbug on 01.04.12 1:28

I don't believe the twins remember anything pre May 2007. I have a grandchild the same age as the twins. When he was two and three months (the age the twins were in PDL) we had a little dog who was his best buddy, had been since he was born. He doesn't even remember him now :-( He vaguely remembers things from when he was four but nothing from when he was just two, and neither would I expect him to.

Just to add - he has a little sister, the exact age that Madeleine was when she disappeared. We have been babysitting them tonight (just home which is why I am posting so late!). I tucked her up in bed and read her a story and sat with her until she fell asleep. The thought of leaving her alone just fills me with horror. At 11pm she woke up crying and I was there in an instant and I laid on her bed and cuddled her until she went back to sleep. I personally don't believe the McCann children were ever left alone every night, but if they were, it breaks my heart to think of that little girl crying and nobody came.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by anil39200 on 01.04.12 1:46

I agree with you, virtually impossible for children to remember things from before they are around 3 it seems to me. Mind, I live close to a University, and many students barely remember their names, though I suspect there may be other reasons for that.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Estelle on 01.04.12 3:29

Well I have a theory about this "unwanted child" feeling but I have no real evidence - only suspicions.

CanyFloss, am I allowed to speculate?
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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.12 7:56

@russiandoll wrote:
or
Mummy Daddy we saw Humpty Dumpty climbing in the window !
Or even more worryingly
"Mummy, why were you cuddling Maddie and crying, and why didn't Maddie wake up ?"

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 01.04.12 8:39

@anil39200 wrote:I agree with you, virtually impossible for children to remember things from before they are around 3 it seems to me. Mind, I live close to a University, and many students barely remember their names, though I suspect there may be other reasons for that.
anil39200, have to be the baddie that disagrees here! It is totally possible, in the right circumstance, to remember everything you have ever experienced. The twins are only seven, to recall back five years won't be a feat for them.
FWIW, my VERY earliest memory is laying in my carrycot, under the window, and seeing a horse head outside! I lived in the caravan until I was eighteen months, and Mum confirms my memory... She says I must've been six month-ish as she stopped putting me in the carrycot then.
I also remember, vividly, sitting on a lawn making daisy chains with my Uncle, and his wife-to-be (they were 'courting') - I was their bridesmaid, four days before my 2nd birthday. I remember my mum trying to put a nappy on me 'just in case' on the day - she gave up in the end as I made such a fuss!
No, I don't think its impossible at all - and in the NK interview Kate looked genuinely quite rattled about the fact the twins are recounting things from prior to Praia... Hmmm - what is she afraid they'll remember?
What PeterMac says above, maybe?

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by turnaround on 01.04.12 9:03

I agree that you can remember things from such an early period, but what about daily role playing with Madeleine? as the parents suggest. I'm not saying it's impossible, but given childrens natural tendency to being selfish,coupled with a here and now attitude, wouldn't that be quite a difficult fate to uphold daily?

the twins were 27 month, so they would remember madeleine, but to make believe her in their play time every day is odd to me. Unless of course the parents mention her every day to them and remind them they have a sister somewhere, I suppose it's not impossible if they are reminded often.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by tigger on 01.04.12 9:05

I can recall only two or three instances from between the age of 2 and 4. All were concerned with fear, big thunderstorm, a large rat and so on.

But I'm sure Kate has no fear of the twins recalling anything from PdL , certainly not from the night of 3/5, since they were fast asleep.
I suspect that it is another good marketing ploy for yet to be published 'revelations'.
I'm still convinced that the 29th and 30th were key dates and that probably the twins saw next to nothing of Maddie after that.
Which would have been nothing new to them, as Kate said that they never had very much to do with her.

I also don't think that anything 'happened' to Maddie in the presence of the twins, I'm convinced they spent their time with the other children in 'their own apartment'.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by PeterMac on 01.04.12 9:09

I still have a memory from the Coronation.
Church House, Grimsby, children's party, with a Mickey Mouse film on a tiny screen at the end of the room.
2 June 1953. I was not quite 3.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 01.04.12 9:14

@turnaround wrote:I agree that you can remember things from such an early period, but what about daily role playing with Madeleine? as the parents suggest. I'm not saying it's impossible, but given childrens natural tendency to being selfish,coupled with a here and now attitude, wouldn't that be quite a difficult fate to uphold daily?

the twins were 27 month, so they would remember madeleine, but to make believe her in their play time every day is odd to me. Unless of course the parents mention her every day to them and remind them they have a sister somewhere, I suppose it's not impossible if they are reminded often.
If they are, as K+G will say, the what they are doing to those twins is emotional abuse, imo. They should leave them to remember her in their own time and way.
Everytime I hear that 'Sean says when he's a big man he's going to get a sword, kill the bad man and rescue Maddie' it makes me cringe. Its just sheer lunacy to put that kind of thing in their heads.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by anil39200 on 01.04.12 9:19

No worries at all, I guess its different for different people. I can barely remember stuff from before I was 8. but that's 50 years ago. yesterday, I have a problem with too. some good points. thanks.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 01.04.12 9:48

@PeterMac wrote:I still have a memory from the Coronation.
Church House, Grimsby, children's party, with a Mickey Mouse film on a tiny screen at the end of the room.
2 June 1953. I was not quite 3.
Ah, bless PeterMac. I just had a vision of a babby PM in short trousers! (No idea if you wore them, just...)
That brought to mind my memory of the Silver Jubilee... Every child in the village got a silver coin - can't remember the denomination, but it was big and chunky and in a display case. My Mum still has them.
Also, a vivid memory - Mum ironing, whistling along to the radio. Suddenly she stopped dead and I clearly remember her saying 'The King is dead' - of course it was Elvis! 1977. Year I went from being an only child to a 'big sis'.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Genbug on 01.04.12 11:45

I agree that there are obviously going to be some events that you would remember from being two. But most of those that you have quoted have been significant events and kind of flashbacks, not everyday life. Madeleine and the twins would have had very little interaction during a normal day, we know she went to nursery and if the twins went too would probably be in a different area. There could of course be these occasional flashbacks where they recall a little girl called Madeleine, but I don't believe they could recall everyday life in the McCann household with Madeleine as a part of it.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by libertine on 13.06.12 17:57

Firstly sorry for posting on an old thread, wasnt sure if starting a new one around the same topic would be more annoying!

I tend to agree the twins with have none / little memory of MM. However I've started to think now that they are getting older (7ish now?) they will be starting to enter the age where they will be inquisitive about what happened. My friends daughter has just turned 9 and is obsessed with the internet. Will the twins start reading about MM online? Start to have questions themselves they want to ask G + K about what happened to her?

Im not suggesting a 7 year old will walk up to her parents and ask them outright if they were involved someway, but I do think the twins growing up and asking questions may be the key to finally making G + K crack, that is of course if they were involved.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by anil39200 on 13.06.12 18:39

It is a very good point. Strangely a friend and I were discussing the idea of how much we could remember from our childhoods yesterday. I am late fifties and he is about 15 years younger. We could both recall as early as five years. Old but little before that. When we were teaching, we took part in a type .of memory study for kids to try and recall their earliest memories. They were teenagers. Very few could recall anything from before age 5. It would appear that just from these examples, limited as they are, that five years seems to be a prime age, most children start school around five so school then informs their memories. Children of that age, from 2- around 8 also tend to live in the moment and have simplistic, self based ideas such as the world revolving round them and their activities.they tend to forget things quickly, though promises can often.be remembered especially if parents forget. This is why I doubt very much the idea of Madeleine saying she had 'the best day ever'...ever is not a concept a child of three understands, even one who we are led to believe has Harry Potter. And Dr who as favourites at age 3., also impossible in my opinion. I think it is HIGHLY unlikely the twins would remember their sister much from when they were 18 months though it is not impossible. Their whole world just now will be about them. However,with the amount of control and information management already active in the scenario so far, it would not surprise me if the twins were fully briefed as to how and what they were meant to say or remember, in my opinion of course.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by russiandoll on 14.06.12 9:05

2 points anil

the twins were aged 2yrs 3 months at the time their big sister vanished.
I have vivid memories pre age 5, from when my mother had cancer at a very young age and during her surgery and convalescence I was looked after by extended family. I recall being taken by my father's sister to see my mother who would leave the hospital ward on an upper storey of the building to stand on the fire escape and wave at me. My mother had cancer when I was aged 2-3. So maybe for significant events memories are clear, it had always surprised me and others that i remember this pattern of going to see my mother who was absent from my life for about a month.
I wonder what the twins will recall, it will depend a lot on what they are fed ........ I certainly think it is wrong to put a bogey man in their heads as their parents have done.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Miraflores on 14.06.12 10:25

I wonder what the twins will recall, it will depend a lot on what they
are fed ........ I certainly think it is wrong to put a bogey man in
their heads as their parents have done.
And also to give them presents at Christmas purporting to come from Madeleine.

The truth is usually best - so Madeleine disappeared - we don't know why, might be the best story. (But don't worry, we won't leave you unattended like we did when she disappeared. Maybe not, perhaps the bogeyman story is the better one after all!)
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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by anil39200 on 14.06.12 10:35

Good points Russian doll. I am sure some people can remember things prior to five. Especially the events that are what we would now call life changing. Many people say they have memories.that go back before birth. Memory can also be selective and fed to you, as Miraflores alluded to. I was only giving my own viewpoint and experience. I believe a lot of people can be brainwashed when a certain story is constantly spun and fed to them.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Guest on 14.06.12 12:26

@russiandoll wrote: 2 points anil

the twins were aged 2yrs 3 months at the time their big sister vanished.
I have vivid memories pre age 5, from when my mother had cancer at a very young age and during her surgery and convalescence I was looked after by extended family. I recall being taken by my father's sister to see my mother who would leave the hospital ward on an upper storey of the building to stand on the fire escape and wave at me. My mother had cancer when I was aged 2-3. So maybe for significant events memories are clear, it had always surprised me and others that i remember this pattern of going to see my mother who was absent from my life for about a month.
I wonder what the twins will recall, it will depend a lot on what they are fed ........ I certainly think it is wrong to put a bogey man in their heads as their parents have done.


I have many memories from I was 1 -4 years old. And none of them because of any tragic event ... I remember friends I had, what we did, I remember how the apartment looked, my room ,my bed, I remember running around in my diper with my bottle in my hand... ( i moved from that place when I was 4 years) ...I remember atleast 20 things from this periode, maybe even more.. And the memories are as clears as if it had happened yhesterday.. People are different I guess..

Must say I do have a very good memory compared to other people I know of, in memory contest I always win.. Sometimes I wish I did not remember , some things can be good to forget :)
Im also by nature VERY qurios, and Im very logical in my thinking, and I dont give up until I find a solution, and I think that also naturally gives you a good memorie.. I think many on this forum are like that, thats why we are here :)

I defently think S and A will remember things as they get older.. Im sure they will be curiouse, and im sure they one day will stumble on this forum, if their parents dont manage to remove it before that time..

the question is how brainwashed they have been and if will they continue to blindly believe their parents when they get big enough to read the evidence them self?
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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by russiandoll on 14.06.12 13:42

I agree strongly that the twins should have been told that Madeleine disappeared, not that she was taken by a bad man. I appreciate that they told her someone wanted her for themselves but you cannot just help yourself to things you want...however that is very frightening imo for a child to think he or she could have the same fate befall him or her.....if they have explained why she was there when they went to bed one evening and was gone before they woke up, how do they go to bed happily at night?
Were they old enough to have it explained Mummy and Daddy are going out just over the way by the pool and if you wake up don't be scared, we are not too far away? Imo given their age at the time they could not have been told in a way they would be able to understand, parents would have to rely on them sleeping soundly before they left and that they would stay that way until they returned......
so preposterous to think they might wake with no idea where their parents were that it is another reason to disbelieve the neglect issue..unless we are meant to think they would wake big sis and she would explain where they were and help settle them.
Again, so preposterous it did not happen imo. Neglect makes abduction possible.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by tigger on 14.06.12 14:46

They gave the twins birthday presents from Maddie and sent them a card from her as well on 1/2/08 - didn't fail to pass this on to the press.

In December they let it be known that they 'had cancelled Christmas' - grave oversight without the option of sending presents and Christmas cards, the next Christmas, I believe, the twins did get presents and cards from Maddie though.
In 2005, Maddie wasn't there, 2006 would have been the only Christmas the twins ever had with Maddie, at that age, they'd never have remembered it without help.

Psychologically, it is a terrible thing to do.

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Re: How old were the twins in PDL?

Post by Miraflores on 14.06.12 15:31

I find it all a bit sick - as well as stuffing the twins' heads with tales of monsters.
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